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Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (updated Sandusky interview with Bob Costas link)
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mrsBLT
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Brittany
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by smdl
Posted by headoverheels
Bottom line for ME is that I feel disgusted whenever I see anyone (alum or not) make this AT ALL about themselves or their precious institution, instead of recognizing that this is ALL about the victims and how their rights as human being were violated and ignored.
I totally agree. I don't understand how anyone made it about them vs. children being sexually abused.
Of course, ANYONE would be disappointed if it was their school and people they thought stood at higher standards.
I just don't get why we should "care" about hurt feelings at this point. We are WAY passed that.
I really don't think how alumni and students feel is even relevant to the gravity of the situation.
Way to steal the victim's position!!!!!
no one said you had to care. no one, especially me, is stealing the victim's position. i didn't realize that expressing my feelings (which by the way is what everyone on this thread is doing) meant you had to care. sorry.
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Posted 11/11/11 9:39 AM  |
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by brownie
Posted by mrsBLT
on your comment of boycotting the sports programs - what is that going to accomplish? most of those student athletes were 12, 13, 14 years old themselves when this was happening. why should they be punished for something they weren't involved in and most likely didn't know about? the people involved in the scandal have been fired. why do we need to take away what these students have worked for their whole lives because of someone else's wrongdoings? please don't come back with nasty comments on this; it's simply a question.
WOW, seriously?
A whole program covered up some serious felonies...its too bad for the future players but this isn't about them 
Here's what happened at Baylor...why should anything less happen at Penn State?
From wiki:
The Baylor University basketball scandal was an incident in which the Baylor University men's basketball program was investigated and punished for numerous NCAA violations. The scandal broke out after the 2003 murder of men's basketball player Patrick Dennehy. His teammate, Carlton Dotson was convicted of the murder and sentenced to a 35-year prison term.
Shortly after Dennehy's disappearance, the school and the NCAA began investigations into multiple allegations, ranging from drug use among players to improper payments to players by the coaching staff. Baylor self-imposed punishments, which the NCAA augmented to include extended probation for the school through 2010, the elimination of one year of non-conference play, and a 10-year show-cause penalty on resigned head coach Dave Bliss. The sanctions so crippled the Bears that they didn't have another winning season until 2008. It is one of the harshest penalties ever imposed on a Division I program that didn't include a death penalty.
that's different - all parties involved in that were either players or employees. sandusky is an ex-employee - he was not part of the football program at the time. yes, he was connected to it in indirect ways, but his relationship with joe paterno was personal, not professional, at that time. to imply that a whole program covered it up implies that every coach, trainer, athlete, volunteer, every single person involved in the football program knew about it. the whole program didn't cover it up - mike mcqueary, joe paterno, tim curley, gary schultz, and graham spanier did.
oh, and thanks for the snarky reply. glad we can put on our big girl pants and have a grown up conversation.
CNN Timeline...
"1994-1997 -- According to the grand jury report, Sandusky allegedly engages in inappropriate conduct with three different boys he met separately through the Second Mile program. One boy was 7 or 8, another was 10 and the third was 12 or 13 at the time. According to the grand jury report, the now-grown men said Sandusky engaged in inappropriate conduct ranging from touching to outright sexual encounters, including several incidents during the night before Penn State football home games, when the team, staff and boys Sandusky had allegedly invited were staying at a hotel.
1998 -- Penn State police and the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare investigate an incident in which the mother of an 11-year-old boy reported that Sandusky had showered with her son and may have had inappropriate conduct with him. In a June 1, 1998, interview with investigators from both agencies, Sandusky admits showering naked with the boy, admitting that it was wrong and promising not to do it again, according to the grand jury report. The district attorney advises investigators that no charges will be filed and the university police chief instructs that the case be closed, according to the testimony included in the grand jury report of the police detective who investigated the incident.
Fmr. Penn State player on abuse scandal
Sex abuse victims urged to come forward
Penn State rocked by child abuse scandal
Penn State students in 'disbelief'
1999 -- Sandusky retires from Penn State after coaching there for 32 years, but stays on as a volunteer and retains full access to the campus and football facilities."
It absolutely happened while Sandusky was employed by Penn State. And continued to happen at the Penn State campus because of his prior professional and personal relationship with those still in employ or sitting on the board.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:40 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
The more and more I think about this whole situation, the more I think Penn State is right in firing Joe Paterno effective immediately. Because people, especially those in the position of authority, should be held accountable for doing the right thing morally. Big deal he did all that he was legally required to do. We should be teaching our children not only in pre-school and elementary school and middle school and high school, but in college too that there are moral standards which we each need to uphold.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who is a father and grandfather would not do more with the information that he was given by the graduate assistant. The findings say that the graduate assistant was visibly shaken and distraught when he told Paterno about what he saw. And now they are trying to say that the higher up it got reported, the less serious the story became, like a game of telephone where the story is not the same once it gets all the way around. I find that hard to believe. I think I read somewhere that the head guy of athletics said he was only told that it appeared Sandusky was engaging in "inappropriate horseplay". Right... I'm sure if you witnessed a grown man having anal sex with a 10 year old boy you would just convey it as horseplay.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police with what he WITNESSED with his own 2 eyes. I am waiting to see what happens to him because IMO he failed morally as well.
For me, one of the biggest things that is bothering me is that everyone seems to be hiding behind "well I did everything I was supposed to do". It's as though moral responsibility is irrelevant. And I fear for our society as a whole if people start to forget that without morals, humans can be a very dangerous species.
So yes, go Penn State for making an example of Joe Paterno. Go Penn State for saying that they have certain moral expectations that their staff is expected to model, especially those who are held to "God-like" status by the student body and alumni. And go Penn State for saying if you don't adhere to those moral expectations, even if you have fulfilled your legal responsibility, there are consequences.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:46 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
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me
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by smdl
Posted by headoverheels
Bottom line for ME is that I feel disgusted whenever I see anyone (alum or not) make this AT ALL about themselves or their precious institution, instead of recognizing that this is ALL about the victims and how their rights as human being were violated and ignored.
I totally agree. I don't understand how anyone made it about them vs. children being sexually abused.
Of course, ANYONE would be disappointed if it was their school and people they thought stood at higher standards.
I just don't get why we should "care" about hurt feelings at this point. We are WAY passed that.
I really don't think how alumni and students feel is even relevant to the gravity of the situation.
Way to steal the victim's position!!!!!
no one said you had to care. no one, especially me, is stealing the victim's position. i didn't realize that expressing my feelings (which by the way is what everyone on this thread is doing) meant you had to care. sorry.
I am talking about ALL alumni and students making it about how disappointed they are and how hurt "THEY" are.
Many people are hurt in this. The victims are the most hurt. Then their families who had to pick up the pieces and help those boys.
WAY DOWN THE LINE are ALL the others. Parents outraged, sport fans, students, etc..... Not one of those people is more right to be upset of the others. They are just the "others". Which I think the victims just could not care less either how students and alumni are disappointed in this scandal.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:47 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
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colette
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by brownie
Posted by mrsBLT
on your comment of boycotting the sports programs - what is that going to accomplish? most of those student athletes were 12, 13, 14 years old themselves when this was happening. why should they be punished for something they weren't involved in and most likely didn't know about? the people involved in the scandal have been fired. why do we need to take away what these students have worked for their whole lives because of someone else's wrongdoings? please don't come back with nasty comments on this; it's simply a question.
WOW, seriously?
A whole program covered up some serious felonies...its too bad for the future players but this isn't about them
Here's what happened at Baylor...why should anything less happen at Penn State?
From wiki:
The Baylor University basketball scandal was an incident in which the Baylor University men's basketball program was investigated and punished for numerous NCAA violations. The scandal broke out after the 2003 murder of men's basketball player Patrick Dennehy. His teammate, Carlton Dotson was convicted of the murder and sentenced to a 35-year prison term.
Shortly after Dennehy's disappearance, the school and the NCAA began investigations into multiple allegations, ranging from drug use among players to improper payments to players by the coaching staff. Baylor self-imposed punishments, which the NCAA augmented to include extended probation for the school through 2010, the elimination of one year of non-conference play, and a 10-year show-cause penalty on resigned head coach Dave Bliss. The sanctions so crippled the Bears that they didn't have another winning season until 2008. It is one of the harshest penalties ever imposed on a Division I program that didn't include a death penalty.
that's different - all parties involved in that were either players or employees. sandusky is an ex-employee - he was not part of the football program at the time. yes, he was connected to it in indirect ways, but his relationship with joe paterno was personal, not professional, at that time. to imply that a whole program covered it up implies that every coach, trainer, athlete, volunteer, every single person involved in the football program knew about it. the whole program didn't cover it up - mike mcqueary, joe paterno, tim curley, gary schultz, and graham spanier did.
oh, and thanks for the snarky reply. glad we can put on our big girl pants and have a grown up conversation.
Without one iota of snark intended, this is seriously the most myopic statement I've ever witnessed, in real life or online. And I've been around for quite a while.
If this is the level of critical thinking and logical debate that your UPenn degree instilled in you, well then, I'm going to go get my decades-old SJU (magna cum laude) diploma out of the storage box it's living in and get it framed today. So thanks for the motivation.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:47 AM |
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rojerono
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Jeannie
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by colette
But I am disgusted and embarrassed to see students protesting the firing of JoePa in the violent and outrageous way they did. If my kid were out there rioting over this, his tuition money would be GONE. DONE. FINISHED. Protest the flucking athletic program!!! BOYCOTT your beloved games until the University gets its shiit together and makes some kind of mandate about HOW this happened, WHY it went on for so long, and WHAT they are doing to ensure it never goes on again. That's what people expect, demand, and are entitled to. THAT'S where their outrage should be.
.
Exactly.
If I were a student I would be spending my time demanding that EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON who had any knowledge or suspicion of what was happening be fired too. Purge your school of the filth that has infected it instead of making yourselves look like morons who care more for a reputation than those children that suffered.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:48 AM |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
ok, i'm done arguing about this because it's not worth it. what i feel is what i feel, whether other people think it's the right thing to feel or not. i feel horrible that those boys had to go through that. i feel like castrating jerry sandusky. i feel confused and disappointed in joe paterno and graham spanier, two intelligent men who i always held to a higher standard than others. i feel shame and disbelief that my beloved alma mater, a school that does so much good for so many people, could be involved in such a scandal.
a professor of mine said it best...
"thinking is the act of having two conflicting thoughts in your head, and not going crazy trying to sort them out."
i don't understand how this could happen to those boys for so long without anyone doing anything.
i don't understand how an honorable and respectable school like penn state could cover it up.
i just don't understand, and i'm thinking. i'm trying to sort it all out but it's so hard to believe
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:49 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by colette
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by brownie
Posted by mrsBLT
on your comment of boycotting the sports programs - what is that going to accomplish? most of those student athletes were 12, 13, 14 years old themselves when this was happening. why should they be punished for something they weren't involved in and most likely didn't know about? the people involved in the scandal have been fired. why do we need to take away what these students have worked for their whole lives because of someone else's wrongdoings? please don't come back with nasty comments on this; it's simply a question.
WOW, seriously?
A whole program covered up some serious felonies...its too bad for the future players but this isn't about them
Here's what happened at Baylor...why should anything less happen at Penn State?
From wiki:
The Baylor University basketball scandal was an incident in which the Baylor University men's basketball program was investigated and punished for numerous NCAA violations. The scandal broke out after the 2003 murder of men's basketball player Patrick Dennehy. His teammate, Carlton Dotson was convicted of the murder and sentenced to a 35-year prison term.
Shortly after Dennehy's disappearance, the school and the NCAA began investigations into multiple allegations, ranging from drug use among players to improper payments to players by the coaching staff. Baylor self-imposed punishments, which the NCAA augmented to include extended probation for the school through 2010, the elimination of one year of non-conference play, and a 10-year show-cause penalty on resigned head coach Dave Bliss. The sanctions so crippled the Bears that they didn't have another winning season until 2008. It is one of the harshest penalties ever imposed on a Division I program that didn't include a death penalty.
that's different - all parties involved in that were either players or employees. sandusky is an ex-employee - he was not part of the football program at the time. yes, he was connected to it in indirect ways, but his relationship with joe paterno was personal, not professional, at that time. to imply that a whole program covered it up implies that every coach, trainer, athlete, volunteer, every single person involved in the football program knew about it. the whole program didn't cover it up - mike mcqueary, joe paterno, tim curley, gary schultz, and graham spanier did.
oh, and thanks for the snarky reply. glad we can put on our big girl pants and have a grown up conversation.
Without one iota of snark intended, this is seriously the most myopic statement I've ever witnessed, in real life or online. And I've been around for quite a while.
If this is the level of critical thinking and logical debate that your UPenn degree instilled in you, well then, I'm going to go get my decades-old SJU (magna cum laude) diploma out of the storage box it's living in and get it framed today. So thanks for the motivation.
Just to be clear, that is PENN STATE, not UPENN... UPenn is an ivy league, Penn State is the 'football school' known for its rioting
And to MrsBLT, when its the president of the University along with other powerful men, its not just a handful of a few bad people...its the institution
I see several tough years ahead for Penn State students...but nothing compared to what those boys will have to deal with their whole
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:56 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by jerseypanda
The more and more I think about this whole situation, the more I think Penn State is right in firing Joe Paterno effective immediately. Because people, especially those in the position of authority, should be held accountable for doing the right thing morally. Big deal he did all that he was legally required to do. We should be teaching our children not only in pre-school and elementary school and middle school and high school, but in college too that there are moral standards which we each need to uphold.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who is a father and grandfather would not do more with the information that he was given by the graduate assistant. The findings say that the graduate assistant was visibly shaken and distraught when he told Paterno about what he saw. And now they are trying to say that the higher up it got reported, the less serious the story became, like a game of telephone where the story is not the same once it gets all the way around. I find that hard to believe. I think I read somewhere that the head guy of athletics said he was only told that it appeared Sandusky was engaging in "inappropriate horseplay". Right... I'm sure if you witnessed a grown man having anal sex with a 10 year old boy you would just convey it as horseplay.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police with what he WITNESSED with his own 2 eyes. I am waiting to see what happens to him because IMO he failed morally as well.
For me, one of the biggest things that is bothering me is that everyone seems to be hiding behind "well I did everything I was supposed to do". It's as though moral responsibility is irrelevant. And I fear for our society as a whole if people start to forget that without morals, humans can be a very dangerous species.
So yes, go Penn State for making an example of Joe Paterno. Go Penn State for saying that they have certain moral expectations that their staff is expected to model, especially those who are held to "God-like" status by the student body and alumni. And go Penn State for saying if you don't adhere to those moral expectations, even if you have fulfilled your legal responsibility, there are consequences.
Amanda I agree with you 100% about the disbelief and disgust this story imbues me with, but I must point out that the University fired Paterno and the Uni's president FAST and PUBLICLY to quell the tsunami of public outrage that was brewing this week. That is all. Institutional COVER YOUR AZZ. Nothing benign about it, it was not an act prompted by their outrage at all. They are simply protecting their positions and their pensions, and Paterno had to go.
Especially after he called a press conference LETTING EVERYONE KNOW HOW THIS WAS GOING TO GO DOWN (i.e. "I'll be retiring at the end of this season.") THAT is what got him fired.
So basically I give the Uni no props for doing too little too late. And there will be more heads rolling in the days and weeks to come. The system, the University, and the sports program are rotten to the core in my opinion.
NOT the students, professors, staff, players and everyone else who studies or works there. NOT THEM.
I am talking about the INSTITUTION, which placed such high regard on their reputation (please read between the lines here: MONEY) that they looked the other way and created an atmosphere where people who COULD have stopped it, simply didn't - because the implied consequences to their reputation, careers, and perhaps even lives would have been too great.
So no, UPenn does not get applause from me.
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:57 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
ok, i'm done arguing about this because it's not worth it. what i feel is what i feel, whether other people think it's the right thing to feel or not. i feel horrible that those boys had to go through that. i feel like castrating jerry sandusky. i feel confused and disappointed in joe paterno and graham spanier, two intelligent men who i always held to a higher standard than others. i feel shame and disbelief that my beloved alma mater, a school that does so much good for so many people, could be involved in such a scandal.
a professor of mine said it best...
"thinking is the act of having two conflicting thoughts in your head, and not going crazy trying to sort them out."
i don't understand how this could happen to those boys for so long without anyone doing anything.
i don't understand how an honorable and respectable school like penn state could cover it up.
i just don't understand, and i'm thinking. i'm trying to sort it all out but it's so hard to believe
Because it apparently wasn't so honorable and respectable
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:57 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by colette
So no, UPenn does not get applause from me.
Colette, Penn State, not UPenn!   
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:58 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by jerseypanda
The more and more I think about this whole situation, the more I think Penn State is right in firing Joe Paterno effective immediately. Because people, especially those in the position of authority, should be held accountable for doing the right thing morally. Big deal he did all that he was legally required to do. We should be teaching our children not only in pre-school and elementary school and middle school and high school, but in college too that there are moral standards which we each need to uphold.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who is a father and grandfather would not do more with the information that he was given by the graduate assistant. The findings say that the graduate assistant was visibly shaken and distraught when he told Paterno about what he saw. And now they are trying to say that the higher up it got reported, the less serious the story became, like a game of telephone where the story is not the same once it gets all the way around. I find that hard to believe. I think I read somewhere that the head guy of athletics said he was only told that it appeared Sandusky was engaging in "inappropriate horseplay". Right... I'm sure if you witnessed a grown man having anal sex with a 10 year old boy you would just convey it as horseplay.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police with what he WITNESSED with his own 2 eyes. I am waiting to see what happens to him because IMO he failed morally as well.
For me, one of the biggest things that is bothering me is that everyone seems to be hiding behind "well I did everything I was supposed to do". It's as though moral responsibility is irrelevant. And I fear for our society as a whole if people start to forget that without morals, humans can be a very dangerous species.
So yes, go Penn State for making an example of Joe Paterno. Go Penn State for saying that they have certain moral expectations that their staff is expected to model, especially those who are held to "God-like" status by the student body and alumni. And go Penn State for saying if you don't adhere to those moral expectations, even if you have fulfilled your legal responsibility, there are consequences.
Amanda, don't you think the firing was something they basically had to do at this point? They were backed into a corner?
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| Posted 11/11/11 9:59 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by brownie
Just to be clear, that is PENN STATE, not UPENN... UPenn is an ivy league, Penn State is the 'football school' known for its rioting
And to MrsBLT, when its the president of the University along with other powerful men, its not just a handful of a few bad people...its the institution
I see several tough years ahead for Penn State students...but nothing compared to what those boys will have to deal with their whole
omg Seema THANK YOU for that correction, I have a deficit of coffee going on here today
I won't even go back and edit that, I've made the mistake a few times but I blame that on my sh*tty Jesuit education.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:00 AM |
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Pomegranate5
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Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
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Pomegranate5
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
BLT...You wanted to know why the school and all those people are being named? Because it was happening in the locker room/showers ON CAMPUS. In hotels as a part of the FOOTBALL program. etc etc etc
yes, i know that. i said that because people were saying it has nothing to do with penn state. of course it does - it happened there, it's the name people recognize, it's what's being blamed. that was my point - that penn state as a whole is being blamed for the whole scandal - not just the select group of people who did it or knew about it.
Personally I think the outrage of students and forner students would be better directed at the administration of Penn State itself.
Penn State's reputation is being shredded because the administration *in general* was more concerned with the rep's of prestigious coaches than the lives of young boys.
Obviously it wasn't every single person working at PS, but when all is said and done, I think we will find out that it wasn't just a "select few" that allowed this to be covered up. That prevailing atmosphere of protecting it's own comes from the top. THAT'S where you should be focusing your frustration and anger, IMHO.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:04 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by colette
Posted by jerseypanda
The more and more I think about this whole situation, the more I think Penn State is right in firing Joe Paterno effective immediately. Because people, especially those in the position of authority, should be held accountable for doing the right thing morally. Big deal he did all that he was legally required to do. We should be teaching our children not only in pre-school and elementary school and middle school and high school, but in college too that there are moral standards which we each need to uphold.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who is a father and grandfather would not do more with the information that he was given by the graduate assistant. The findings say that the graduate assistant was visibly shaken and distraught when he told Paterno about what he saw. And now they are trying to say that the higher up it got reported, the less serious the story became, like a game of telephone where the story is not the same once it gets all the way around. I find that hard to believe. I think I read somewhere that the head guy of athletics said he was only told that it appeared Sandusky was engaging in "inappropriate horseplay". Right... I'm sure if you witnessed a grown man having anal sex with a 10 year old boy you would just convey it as horseplay.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police with what he WITNESSED with his own 2 eyes. I am waiting to see what happens to him because IMO he failed morally as well.
For me, one of the biggest things that is bothering me is that everyone seems to be hiding behind "well I did everything I was supposed to do". It's as though moral responsibility is irrelevant. And I fear for our society as a whole if people start to forget that without morals, humans can be a very dangerous species.
So yes, go Penn State for making an example of Joe Paterno. Go Penn State for saying that they have certain moral expectations that their staff is expected to model, especially those who are held to "God-like" status by the student body and alumni. And go Penn State for saying if you don't adhere to those moral expectations, even if you have fulfilled your legal responsibility, there are consequences.
Amanda I agree with you 100% about the disbelief and disgust this story imbues me with, but I must point out that the University fired Paterno and the Uni's president FAST and PUBLICLY to quell the tsunami of public outrage that was brewing this week. That is all. Institutional COVER YOUR AZZ. Nothing benign about it, it was not an act prompted by their outrage at all. They are simply protecting their positions and their pensions, and Paterno had to go.
Especially after he called a press conference LETTING EVERYONE KNOW HOW THIS WAS GOING TO GO DOWN (i.e. "I'll be retiring at the end of this season.") THAT is what got him fired.
So basically I give the Uni no props for doing too little too late. And there will be more heads rolling in the days and weeks to come. The system, the University, and the sports program are rotten to the core in my opinion.
NOT the students, professors, staff, players and everyone else who studies or works there. NOT THEM.
I am talking about the INSTITUTION, which placed such high regard on their reputation (please read between the lines here: MONEY) that they looked the other way and created an atmosphere where people who COULD have stopped it, simply didn't - because the implied consequences to their reputation, careers, and perhaps even lives would have been too great.
So no, UPenn does not get applause from me.
I see what you are saying. You know what... if the end result of them trying to cover their a$ses is that all the people involved are fired, their reputation is taken down several notches causing them to have to work hard to rebuild themselves as a morally intact institution, and they learn a very big and hard lesson that anything like this CANNOT ever happen again... I think that is a good thing.
The motive behind the change may not be as important as the fact that things will change.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:05 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by brownie
Posted by jerseypanda
The more and more I think about this whole situation, the more I think Penn State is right in firing Joe Paterno effective immediately. Because people, especially those in the position of authority, should be held accountable for doing the right thing morally. Big deal he did all that he was legally required to do. We should be teaching our children not only in pre-school and elementary school and middle school and high school, but in college too that there are moral standards which we each need to uphold.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who is a father and grandfather would not do more with the information that he was given by the graduate assistant. The findings say that the graduate assistant was visibly shaken and distraught when he told Paterno about what he saw. And now they are trying to say that the higher up it got reported, the less serious the story became, like a game of telephone where the story is not the same once it gets all the way around. I find that hard to believe. I think I read somewhere that the head guy of athletics said he was only told that it appeared Sandusky was engaging in "inappropriate horseplay". Right... I'm sure if you witnessed a grown man having anal sex with a 10 year old boy you would just convey it as horseplay.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police with what he WITNESSED with his own 2 eyes. I am waiting to see what happens to him because IMO he failed morally as well.
For me, one of the biggest things that is bothering me is that everyone seems to be hiding behind "well I did everything I was supposed to do". It's as though moral responsibility is irrelevant. And I fear for our society as a whole if people start to forget that without morals, humans can be a very dangerous species.
So yes, go Penn State for making an example of Joe Paterno. Go Penn State for saying that they have certain moral expectations that their staff is expected to model, especially those who are held to "God-like" status by the student body and alumni. And go Penn State for saying if you don't adhere to those moral expectations, even if you have fulfilled your legal responsibility, there are consequences.
Amanda, don't you think the firing was something they basically had to do at this point? They were backed into a corner?
I can see that now. But like I just said in another reply to colette, the ball is now in motion. They have some major work to do in order to begin the process of rebuilding their reputation. And I think the end result is that positive changes will ultimately. Regardless of whether or not the initial change was to cover their azz.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:08 AM |
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jambalady
Is it summer yet?
Member since 8/06 7392 total posts
Name:
Holly
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by smdl
Posted by headoverheels
Bottom line for ME is that I feel disgusted whenever I see anyone (alum or not) make this AT ALL about themselves or their precious institution, instead of recognizing that this is ALL about the victims and how their rights as human being were violated and ignored.
I totally agree. I don't understand how anyone made it about them vs. children being sexually abused.
Of course, ANYONE would be disappointed if it was their school and people they thought stood at higher standards.
I just don't get why we should "care" about hurt feelings at this point. We are WAY passed that.
I really don't think how alumni and students feel is even relevant to the gravity of the situation.
Way to steal the victim's position!!!!!
no one said you had to care. no one, especially me, is stealing the victim's position. i didn't realize that expressing my feelings (which by the way is what everyone on this thread is doing) meant you had to care. sorry.
Wait, I'm sorry, you're not stealing the victims' position? Have you seen your avatar????
I know it's not black and white, and I truly understand you are struggling with your emotions, and I think Barb stated it very eloquently, but, really, this is a time where you either rally your support for the real victims (THE BOYS WHO WERE RAPED) or you rally for the institution you love so dearly.
No one is saying you can't have conflicted feelings at this time, but you know what, keep it to yourself.
The focus should be on those boys and the animals who ruined their lives, period. Not the former legacy of Penn State or JoePa.
That's all irrelevant at this point.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:20 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by bookworm
Posted by sfp0701
Try and look at it this way..
A teacher in your child's school walks in to see a V.P. raping your 10 year old boy. He tells the Principal. The Principal tells the superintendent. Nothing is done.. Nothing.
And he doesn't then go to the police.
And that is ok.
That is EXACTLY what the Penn State Students are saying. EXACTLY!!!!
If it was YOUR 10 year old boy would you HONESTLY be okay with the Principal just telling his boss and letting it go. Really???? I don't think so.
Here's what I don't get: why do the principle and the superintendent get fired, but the teacher who witnessed it keeps his job???
Didn't the grad student have an equal responsibility to report this to authorities? Why does he still work there?
i agree with you 1 million percent. The grad student should be fired also. Every last person who even had an inkling of this should be fired. It sickens me. I was mearly making the anology to show why firing Paterno was the right thing.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:41 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Where is Sandusky? I'm assuming he's in police custody?
He's going to prison with people that grew up underprivileged, neglected, abused. I cannot imagine how he'd survive. I cannot imagine how this guy wouldn't stick a pistol in his mouth. I know it's horrible to say. But does he have any other options?
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:42 AM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by jodi714
I'll probably get flamed for this but whatever.
I went to Penn State. I am horrified about what has happened from the abuse to the coverups to the riots. I agree 100% with the firing of Joe Paterno and everyone else. I am
disgusted that Mike McQueary is coaching on Saturday. I am so sad for those boys and their families.
That all being said, I am going to make a (very poor and unequal comparison). My Ex-husband cheated on me. I was with him since I was in high school (15 years). I trusted him 100%. I never once doubted his loyalty to me and our DD until the day he walked and I found out he was cheating. 2.5 years later, I am still trying to reconcile how the man I loved and trusted with my whole heart could be a man who cheats on his wife and walks out on his daughter. People on the outside have a much easier time calling him an A$$hole and calling it a day, but for me, I am angry for what he did but it takes time to integrate it into my view of him.
This is what is happening for many Penn State students, staff and alumni. We are trying to understand how a man who had appeared to be so incredibly positively influential for over 60 years could act (or not act) in this way. It doesn't mean we agree or sympathize and are not ANGRY and DISGUSTED, it just means we have a host of complicated emotions and not nearly as clear cut for someone on the outside.
It is also very hard because the horrible (in)actions of several men are overshadowing all of the amazing things that happen at Penn State and that hurts. I know that it is insignificant compared to the abuse and pain that the boys experienced. Im not trying to compare but rather just explain why this is so difficult on many levels.
Yesterday was not only the day Joe Paterno was fired but it marked 100 days to THON, a 48 hour dance marathon. Most people don't know what THON is but it is the largest student run philanthropy in the country (probably world now) and is 100% student run. Last year the student's raised nearly $10 Million for children with cancer at Hershey Medical Center. This is a HUGE event that has grown tenfold (no exaggeration) since I was a freshman in the spring of 1996. Over the years, it has probably raised nearly $100 million. This event was a formative part of my college experience. I fundraised with my sorority and danced as a senior. I wish Penn State was in the news yesterday for the coutdown to this amazing event but instead it was for this tragedy.
The entire thing is a travesty.
I just wanted to tell you I get what you are saying.
I also agree with PPs that this is the tip of the iceberg, I think. I have seen some rumors online, that if true, are going to blow this story UP. I also think many more victims will come forward.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:43 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by nrthshgrl
Where is Sandusky? I'm assuming he's in police custody?
He's going to prison with people that grew up underprivileged, neglected, abused. I cannot imagine how he'd survive. I cannot imagine how this guy wouldn't stick a pistol in his mouth. I know it's horrible to say. But does he have any other options?
Nope he's free on bail.
I too am almost expecting him to off himself before this goes to trial... (Not "wishing" it, but I wouldn't be surprised by it)
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:44 AM |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by nrthshgrl
Where is Sandusky? I'm assuming he's in police custody?
He's going to prison with people that grew up underprivileged, neglected, abused. I cannot imagine how he'd survive. I cannot imagine how this guy wouldn't stick a pistol in his mouth. I know it's horrible to say. But does he have any other options?
he's out on bail in state college 
free to walk the streets, go about his own business, do whatever he pleases... well, except be alone with his grandchildren.
i wish he was in police custody so he doesn't have the opportunity to off himself before he suffers in jail. that, or before someone else kills him.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:44 AM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by colette
Posted by nrthshgrl
Where is Sandusky? I'm assuming he's in police custody?
He's going to prison with people that grew up underprivileged, neglected, abused. I cannot imagine how he'd survive. I cannot imagine how this guy wouldn't stick a pistol in his mouth. I know it's horrible to say. But does he have any other options?
Nope he's free on bail.
I too am almost expecting him to off himself before this goes to trial... (Not "wishing" it, but I wouldn't be surprised by it)
I'm kinda wishing he does kill himself.
While I'd much rather know he'll suffer more in jail - as even criminals look down on pedos - I'd much rather know that pieceofshit is not breathing the same air as the rest of humanity.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:51 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by colette
Posted by nrthshgrl
Where is Sandusky? I'm assuming he's in police custody?
He's going to prison with people that grew up underprivileged, neglected, abused. I cannot imagine how he'd survive. I cannot imagine how this guy wouldn't stick a pistol in his mouth. I know it's horrible to say. But does he have any other options?
Nope he's free on bail.
I too am almost expecting him to off himself before this goes to trial... (Not "wishing" it, but I wouldn't be surprised by it)
I'm kinda wishing he does kill himself.
While I'd much rather know he'll suffer more in jail - as even criminals look down on pedos - I'd much rather know that pieceofshit is not breathing the same air as the rest of humanity.
Yeah I'd feel better knowing this pedophile won't be able to have rights, get a place to sleep and food to eat
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:54 AM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Did we discuss the Penn State scandal? (includes Grand Jury Report)
Posted by dpli
I also agree with PPs that this is the tip of the iceberg, I think. I have seen some rumors online, that if true, are going to blow this story UP. I also think many more victims will come forward.
I saw on the news last night there is another possible victim living in Texas.
This has been going on for so long, I hardly believe there are only a handful of victims.
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| Posted 11/11/11 10:54 AM |
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