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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
OK- let me start my post by saying my parents and grandparents are holocaust survivors. My parents never knew their grandparents because they were killed by the Nazis and in the progrums in Russia. I grew up thinking that numbers tatooed on my grandparent's friends' arms are normal. So trust me, I am highly sensitive to swatstickas.
I was on the phone with a Hindu friend of mine. She was born in India and raised in Japan (where her parents still live). SHe asked me to check out this dating website (like match.com for hindus) since her parents were trying to set her up with a Hindu guy. So I check out the site, and there is a swatsticka on the bottom. I kinda froze and asked what's that? SHe told me its an ancient Indian symbol with meaning well before hte Nazis.
So I think in many parts of the world, the swatsticka is not a symbol of hate because it maintains its orignal meaning.
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
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Posted 10/4/07 1:52 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Shelly
OK- let me start my post by saying my parents and grandparents are holocaust survivors. My parents never knew their grandparents because they were killed by the Nazis and in the progrums in Russia. I grew up thinking that numbers tatooed on my grandparent's friends' arms are normal. So trust me, I am highly sensitive to swatstickas.
I was on the phone with a Hindu friend of mine. She was born in India and raised in Japan (where her parents still live). SHe asked me to check out this dating website (like match.com for hindus) since her parents were trying to set her up with a Hindu guy. So I check out the site, and there is a swatsticka on the bottom. I kinda froze and asked what's that? SHe told me its an ancient Indian symbol with meaning well before hte Nazis.
So I think in many parts of the world, the swatsticka is not a symbol of hate because it maintains its orignal meaning.
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
 Right there with you.
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| Posted 10/4/07 1:54 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Message edited 11/11/2011 9:37:43 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 1:58 PM |
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Shelly
OK- let me start my post by saying my parents and grandparents are holocaust survivors. My parents never knew their grandparents because they were killed by the Nazis and in the progrums in Russia. I grew up thinking that numbers tatooed on my grandparent's friends' arms are normal. So trust me, I am highly sensitive to swatstickas.
I was on the phone with a Hindu friend of mine. She was born in India and raised in Japan (where her parents still live). SHe asked me to check out this dating website (like match.com for hindus) since her parents were trying to set her up with a Hindu guy. So I check out the site, and there is a swatsticka on the bottom. I kinda froze and asked what's that? SHe told me its an ancient Indian symbol with meaning well before hte Nazis.
So I think in many parts of the world, the swatsticka is not a symbol of hate because it maintains its orignal meaning.
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
In some religions the symbol that is used is actually reversed as compared to the Nazi Swastika.
I have always known that tne Swastika had origins that were not related to the Holocaust. Still, WHY ARE WE NOT FACING THE FACT THAT JUST ABOUT ANY AMERICAN WHO SEES A SWASTIKA THINKS OF THE NAZI'S BEFORE THINKING OF ANY OTHER MEANING? LET'S FACE THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT MADE THAT SYMBOL SO WELL KNOWN. THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:00 PM |
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Ambersmom
Straight up nasty
Member since 5/05 7740 total posts
Name:
Sharon
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
I was in a grocery store up in PA a few weekends back. Right there in front of the Customer Service desk they had a rack of keychains with people's names on them (Jim, Mary, etc.). Then they had a section with sayings on them. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw one with KKK on it. I froze in disgust!!! I may not be black, but that sure as heck offended me, especially since they were selling it in a very public place where not only were some of the cashiers black but the clientele as well. Do you know the beyatch at CS just shook her head at me like I had the problem by complaining?!? Talk about holy offensive!!
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:02 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
I guess I'm just not easily offended. If I'm offended by a video, I turn it off.
For those who did not see it the video started out with 2 seconds of a graphic of a burning cross followed by a gay black man singing about his butt. Now if he isn't offended by it why should I be?
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:03 PM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
I really feel for the families of survivors. Several of my family members were killed in conentration camps, though they weren't Jewish, and there were no survivors to tell their tale.
I know how it must be a painful experience etched into the minds several generations deep. It's terrible.
I hope that none of my posts seemed to reflect any sort of a lack of respect for those who would be offended.
I am simply trying to represent the fact that not everyone is offended by the same thing, or at all. A symbol of hate is a symbol of hate- I think Lauren nailed it on the head- it's the context in which it is represented. But the actual emotion of offense is not something commonly shared by people- we all have different reacctions to things.
An interesting side point- if a potentially offensive symbol of hate is represented in a piece of art, is it equally as offensive? What if the artist's message is clearly explained- ie, the art piece is meant to strike a chord, to make people understand the pain others went through?
I wonder if that would make a difference?
This goes for burning crosses, swastikas, trees, barefoot women in kitchens, skinheads, etc.
Message edited 10/4/2007 2:06:24 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:03 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by ssdbk
THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
Did you actually READ this thread?
MANY of the particpants said this was not drama that is as a discussion or a debate. It didn't get heated, no one insulted or did any personal attacts? In fact, I am repeating myself in asking why does every discussion or debate need to be called DRAMA? This was, for the most part, a very civilized discussion. One in which I personally believe people on the other side of the topic felt enlightened as to why the other half think/believe what they do.
What benefit does it provide to come here in all caps , posting your first post on the thread and screaming about drama?
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:04 PM |
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Ambersmom
I was in a grocery store up in PA a few weekends back. Right there in front of the Customer Service desk they had a rack of keychains with people's names on them (Jim, Mary, etc.). Then they had a section with sayings on them. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw one with KKK on it. I froze in disgust!!! I may not be black, but that sure as heck offended me, especially since they were selling it in a very public place where not only were some of the cashiers black but the clientele as well. Do you know the beyatch at CS just shook her head at me like I had the problem by complaining?!? Talk about holy offensive!!
Is someone going to come on here and say that KKK is just 3 random letters? Or that someone with the initials KKK would buy that? After all, the letter K has been around longer than the KKK.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:04 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by ssdbk
WHY ARE WE NOT FACING THE FACT THAT JUST ABOUT ANY AMERICAN WHO SEES A SWASTIKA THINKS OF THE NAZI'S BEFORE THINKING OF ANY OTHER MEANING? LET'S FACE THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT MADE THAT SYMBOL SO WELL KNOWN. THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
I did.
Posted by Shelly
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
Message edited 10/4/2007 2:05:16 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:05 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Preguntas
Posted by Kara
Posted by Preguntas
eta- Deb- a swastika is not a symbol of hate.
I think that information was outdated in approximately 1939.
how does history get outdated? It's a deeply religious symbol to many people. I get it, not to you- and it's def. more broadly known as a hate symbol, but- like the iron cross, or hammer and syckle, it's not just that.
Hitler also ruined that ugly moustache, but no one is calling Charlie Chaplin a Nazi.
You make me 
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:05 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by DebG
Posted by ssdbk
THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
Did you actually READ this thread?
MANY of the particpants said this was not drama that is as a discussion or a debate. It didn't get heated, no one insulted or did any personal attacts? In fact, I am repeating myself in asking why does every discussion or debate need to be called DRAMA? This was, for the most part, a very civilized discussion. One in which I personally believe people on the other side of the topic felt enlightened as to why the other half think/believe what they do.
What benefit does it provide to come here in all caps , posting your first post on the thread and screaming about drama?
I agree, not sure where your post came from. 
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:05 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
I think that posts can become dramatic WHEN PEOPLE START SHOUTING
ETA: People please use your caps wisely, you are giving me a headache.
Message edited 10/4/2007 2:06:59 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:06 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Message edited 11/11/2011 9:37:56 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:06 PM |
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Shelly
Posted by ssdbk
WHY ARE WE NOT FACING THE FACT THAT JUST ABOUT ANY AMERICAN WHO SEES A SWASTIKA THINKS OF THE NAZI'S BEFORE THINKING OF ANY OTHER MEANING? LET'S FACE THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT MADE THAT SYMBOL SO WELL KNOWN. THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
I did.
Posted by Shelly
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
Yep, I read the whole thing!
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:07 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
I think it's more of a social conscious issue than a Jew, gentile, black , white issue.
Some of these symbols have been used through history as a message of hate and violence. I think if we as a society become desensitized to these images that history is doomed to repeat.
People have been twisting religion and such forever in order to try and get their twisted views across. Look at Hitler and more recently Bin Laden.
I'm not black but I can understand racism .
I'm not Jewish but I can understand persecution.
I am not a woman but support a woman's right to choose.
It's a humanitarian issue.
I may be offended and not agree with someone's view but I'm glad I live in a country where you can have and discuss opposing view points without worrying that you'll have a bag thrown over your head and thrown in a van and never heard from again.
I may not agree but I will defend your right to your viewpoint
Like I said before I think on a family oriented site that Ron and Liz try and keep the controversy to a minimum.
Jess like I said before sorry if you felt I attacked you I didn't mean to I just tried to answer your question.
Here! Here! brilliant post.
This whole thread is not asking if you agree with the viewpoint or not just discussing whether or not you can understand how others MIGHT interpret something.
I can respect you not being sensitive to something if you can respect that someone might not feel the same way.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:07 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by ssdbk
Posted by Shelly
Posted by ssdbk
WHY ARE WE NOT FACING THE FACT THAT JUST ABOUT ANY AMERICAN WHO SEES A SWASTIKA THINKS OF THE NAZI'S BEFORE THINKING OF ANY OTHER MEANING? LET'S FACE THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT MADE THAT SYMBOL SO WELL KNOWN. THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
I did.
Posted by Shelly
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
Yep, I read the whole thing!
so can you please explain what your post meant then. I don't get it. 
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:08 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Shelly
Posted by ssdbk
Posted by Shelly
Posted by ssdbk
WHY ARE WE NOT FACING THE FACT THAT JUST ABOUT ANY AMERICAN WHO SEES A SWASTIKA THINKS OF THE NAZI'S BEFORE THINKING OF ANY OTHER MEANING? LET'S FACE THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT MADE THAT SYMBOL SO WELL KNOWN. THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
I did.
Posted by Shelly
However, in America and Europe and original meaning has been grossly overshadowed by the symbol for the Nazi regime. And yes- that offends the heck out of me.
Yep, I read the whole thing!
so can you please explain what your post meant then. I don't get it.
me either.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:08 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by ssdbk
THE DRAMA THIS WEEK IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.
See but this is what makes the boards fun....I don't care who's sick, whats for dinner or whatever else people usually post about. But THIS is interesting. Its what happens when you get a bunch of people with big internet ba!!s together and have them go at it. As someone else said, I;m going to get me some popcorn!
FYI-I do agree that a swastika has a negative connotation since the Holocaust
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:08 PM |
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by dita
I think that posts can become dramatic WHEN PEOPLE START SHOUTING
ETA: People please use your caps wisely, you are giving me a headache.
Sorry, it has been a long week. I have no history whatsoever of being a "caps queen." I have to wonder about motives when I see the same person start threads over and over again and I know before opening the threads that it is going to get heated. This thread has already moved beyond the point of being a valuable exchange of ideas, IMO.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:11 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Message edited 11/11/2011 9:38:34 PM.
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:11 PM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
I think the point of art is to evoke some sort of response whether it be positive or negative. I think that's why artists like Madonna do it in the first place. I don't think she wants to offend as much as she wants us to think.
Yes- I completely agree!
And though Jesaroos silly gay butt song was not quality like Madonna, isn't it still art? Maybe the point of that "artist" was to make people realize that they can laugh.
Just a thought...
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:11 PM |
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Stefanie
♥
Member since 5/05 23599 total posts
Name:
Stefanie
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Who here was offended by that video?
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:12 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
Posted by Stefanie
Who here was offended by that video?
Not I
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:12 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: the discussion formerly known as "NVM"
I sense a polll....
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| Posted 10/4/07 2:13 PM |
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