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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
See, I disagree with this statement. I think it could exist. It may get some heat.
And there are plenty of sites that are limited to a division of Christianity. In fact, my old roomate was on a website she described as the catholic version of j-date.
you are right. it could exist.
but why with heat?
I am personally against all of these separationalist websites...mostly b/c if my parents had each stuck with "their kind" I wouldn't be here! BUT I do not feel it is fair to allow one to flourish freely while another would have to pause and think of the ramifications of it's start up.
it's very strange to demand integration when you partake in self segregation, IMO. it's a bizarre hypocrisy.
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:32:44 PM.
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Posted 10/17/07 4:31 PM  |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
I think Preguntas' statement demonstrates that.
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
Really? I don't get how you are missing my point. It's simple statistics.
If White people make up 70% of the population (just making up #s), then it can be assumed that approximately 70% of any random gathering of people would be comprised of white people.
Seriously. That is my point. So if someone who is in a 10% minority sees that as exclusionary or "for" whites, that is them, limiting themselves.
If there is the same gathering, now titled "Pacific Islander" such and such, then NOW people have cause to assume it's for a limited audience. And that, if you are not a part of that group, you are not invited.
Again, I completely understand that, as a majority, white people will comprise the majority of any random, public event. Obviously. But to say that it is "understood" that those non labeled events are "for" whites, implies that we, as whites, do not welcome minorities.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:32 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
I see it a little differently. I don't think it's just the price we are paying for the poor decisions of our ancestors. I can tell you, in the work I do, I see discrimination every single day. It is real, it is out there, so it's not just the price we pay for what our ancestors have done, but the price we are still paying for the continuing ignorance of people.
I'm white, and I'm jewish - I've never felt any kind of anger about the fact that I'm lumped into a majority, and honestly, I've never felt that I've been judged as racist or uncaring, simply because I'm white. If you've felt that, I'm sorry that you have. But, at the same time, I think there's a very palpable difference between feeling as if people are judging you as racist and unfeeling because of the color of your skin, and someone who is going to a subpar school, receiving a subpar education, subpar services, and being hindered from getting a job, or getting into a program, solely because of the color of their skin.
I really don't mean this offensivly, if this is what you do and what you see everyday, OF COURSE you are going to be biased (and I don't mean that word in a bad way) about it
PS- "white christians" are denied jobs too because of affirmative action lots of people see that as fair but tell that to the "white christian" who i s poor and in desperate need of "that" job too
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:32 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
See, I disagree with this statement. I think it could exist. It may get some heat.
And there are plenty of sites that are limited to a division of Christianity. In fact, my old roomate was on a website she described as the catholic version of j-date.
you are right. it could exist.
but why with heat?
I am personally against all of these separationalist websites...mostly b/c if my parents had each stuck with "their kind" I wouldn't be here! BUT I do not feel it is fair to allow one to flourish freely while another would have to pause and think of the ramifications of it's start up.
it's very strange to demand integration when you partake in self segregation, IMO. it's a bizarre hypocrisy.
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:33 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
 Well said.
what about the "white" organizations that abolished slavery in this country.
that worked their arses off for the right for WOMEN and BLACKS to vote in this country.
racism is SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING. but not every organization that is created by the majority is based on that.
I never said EVERY white organization had that purpose, but the historical truth is that many did.
No. the historical truth is that the famous groups did.
it's fine to use to prove a point. and yes, there is still racism. where there is ignorance there will always be racism.
but racism and separatist ideas (ie celebrating and preserving ones unique culture-through things like JDate) are not one and the same.
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
That's exactly the point i was making - that groups are allowed and encouraged to create their own organizations, for a purpose - and that our antidiscrimination laws do not purport to eliminate those kind of organizations because that is NOT the purpose of those laws.
The truth is, legally, a white dating site COULD exist. But, like I said earlier, while it's certainly legal, they would certainly receive quite a bit of heat because of the connotations associated with white organizations. Is it right? No.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:33 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
See, I disagree with this statement. I think it could exist. It may get some heat.
And there are plenty of sites that are limited to a division of Christianity. In fact, my old roomate was on a website she described as the catholic version of j-date.
you are right. it could exist.
but why with heat?
I am personally against all of these separationalist websites...mostly b/c if my parents had each stuck with "their kind" I wouldn't be here! BUT I do not feel it is fair to allow one to flourish freely while another would have to pause and think of the ramifications of it's start up.
it's very strange to demand integration when you partake in self segregation, IMO. it's a bizarre hypocrisy.
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
spare me with that one, with all due respect.
Half of my family is hispanic. I grew up in a very mixed household. I understand more than your assumption (and sorry to say ignorant one at that) would ever know.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:35 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
just the kind of comment that makes a healthy debate an ignorant one.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:35 PM |
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Ginger123
Sooo happy
Member since 8/07 1235 total posts
Name:
dana
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Re: I really have to ask...
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:36 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
just the kind of comment that makes a healthy debate an ignorant one.
AHHH Yes I was waiting for that one!
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:37 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
it's very strange to demand integration when you partake in self segregation, IMO. it's a bizarre hypocrisy.
No, no, no, it's NOT about demanding integration but about demanding EQUALITY. I don't see any sense in just forgetting who we are and the significance of the struggles of our ancestors. I celebrate and rejoice in being Jewish and adore that my daughter will experience all the same jewish cultural values that her great great great great grandmother did. There's nothing wrong with that. What the purpose of the laws is to ensure that she can succeed in this world, despite the fact that she's Jewish and chooses to OPENLY celebrate it with other jews, not to make her EXACTLY like everyone else.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:37 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
just the kind of comment that makes a healthy debate an ignorant one.
sorry, my apologies. what she said p*ssed me off b/c I know many HAPPY married people who met on Jdate and I for one amd VERY glad that site was created.
some people WANT to stick with their own kind.
live and let live. why judge??!
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:37:40 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:37 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
what about the "white" organizations that abolished slavery in this country.
that worked their arses off for the right for WOMEN and BLACKS to vote in this country.
racism is SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING. but not every organization that is created by the majority is based on that.
I never said EVERY white organization had that purpose, but the historical truth is that many did.
No. the historical truth is that the famous groups did.
it's fine to use to prove a point. and yes, there is still racism. where there is ignorance there will always be racism.
but racism and separatist ideas (ie celebrating and preserving ones unique culture-through things like JDate) are not one and the same.
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
That's exactly the point i was making - that groups are allowed and encouraged to create their own organizations, for a purpose - and that our antidiscrimination laws do not purport to eliminate those kind of organizations because that is NOT the purpose of those laws.
The truth is, legally, a white dating site COULD exist. But, like I said earlier, while it's certainly legal, they would certainly receive quite a bit of heat because of the connotations associated with white organizations. Is it right? No.
I think we are making the same point.
It's not right. end of story.
the argument that it's ok, b/c it's the majority, is what makes no sense.
it should NEVER be ok to discriminate...b/c while it may not seem to make much of a difference in the big picture....being called a 'white b1tch" on the train should be treated the same as if someone was called a the "n" word, or a "spic" (and I have been called bot a white ***** AND a spic...it's not nice)
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:41:12 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:37 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
As I said above, I have nothing against whitedatersonly.com But why can groups exclude others (Blacksingles.com) and not whites without causing an uproar- its because it is my opinion that if something if a race is not specified, the majority of people will assume its for white people.
then the assumption is the problem. b/c no where in match.com or eharmony or any of those sites is their any kind of solicitation for white christians only.
perhaps if JDate and blacksingles did not exist, there would be more intermingling and free thinking.
perhaps there'd be more jewish choices on match.com if it wasn't for Jdate. perhaps you'd meet a nice anglo boy that would convert for you on match.com....
by holding that assumption, YOu are separating yourself from the options of the majority. willingly. I don't see how that helps the big picture.
I do separate myself from the options of the majority willingly on dating sites (if I ever went on one), and for a very specific reason.
In marriage, I didn't want to search for a nice anglo boy that would convert for me. First off, I don't believe in asking anyone to convert their religion because of me. If someone wants to convert, that's fine. But I don't want to be the reason. I had a teacher who said, one should convert for the love of judaism, not for the love of a jew.
I don't see anything wrong with wanting to marry someone from your own religion or culture. I also don't see anything wrong with people who marry outside their cultural religion or culture.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:38 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
well that's an assinine ASSumption. How do you KNOW what this person is?
The debate turns from good to personal. Usually gets it pulled, lesigh
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:38 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Preguntas
Again, I completely understand that, as a majority, white people will comprise the majority of any random, public event. Obviously. But to say that it is "understood" that those non labeled events are "for" whites, implies that we, as whites, do not welcome minorities.
Herein lies the misunderstanding. I don't in anyway mean that it is "for" whites ONLY. I just mean that it is a place where the majority of the people will be white. I do not look at it as not welcoming others. But as you said, the reality is that the majority of people will be white.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:40 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
just the kind of comment that makes a healthy debate an ignorant one.
sorry, my apologies. what she said p*ssed me off b/c I know many HAPPY married people who met on Jdate and I for one amd VERY glad that site was created.
some people WANT to stick with their own kind.
live and let live. why judge??!
have you read or understood ANY of the postings?
the whole POINT of this debate is that while Jdate can flourish and can "stick with their own kind" without issue, a white christian site could not exist WITHOUT issue.
that is the point. I am so happy for your friends. but who cares!
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:40 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by DebG
Posted by Bxgell2
I see it a little differently. I don't think it's just the price we are paying for the poor decisions of our ancestors. I can tell you, in the work I do, I see discrimination every single day. It is real, it is out there, so it's not just the price we pay for what our ancestors have done, but the price we are still paying for the continuing ignorance of people.
I'm white, and I'm jewish - I've never felt any kind of anger about the fact that I'm lumped into a majority, and honestly, I've never felt that I've been judged as racist or uncaring, simply because I'm white. If you've felt that, I'm sorry that you have. But, at the same time, I think there's a very palpable difference between feeling as if people are judging you as racist and unfeeling because of the color of your skin, and someone who is going to a subpar school, receiving a subpar education, subpar services, and being hindered from getting a job, or getting into a program, solely because of the color of their skin.
I really don't mean this offensivly, if this is what you do and what you see everyday, OF COURSE you are going to be biased (and I don't mean that word in a bad way) about it
PS- "white christians" are denied jobs too because of affirmative action lots of people see that as fair but tell that to the "white christian" who i s poor and in desperate need of "that" job too
None taken. By the same token though, just because it's not glaringly obvious to everyone (and honestly, if you do even a little bit of research about our public schools, it IS obvious), doesn't mean it doesn't exist and we should turn a blind eye.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:40 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
....being called a 'white b1tch" on the train should be treated the same as if someone was called a the "n" word, or a "spic" (and I have been called bot a white ***** AND a spic...it's not nice)
I completly agree with this statement.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:41 PM |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what continues to perpetuate the cycle of inequality. It's always got to be "you wouldn't understand because you're not (insert self-segregaged group here).
Just goes to show you, even in an online "community", there's always someone who has to play the race card...or the religion card.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:42 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
you're not black or Jewish, so I wouldn't expect you to understand
just the kind of comment that makes a healthy debate an ignorant one.
sorry, my apologies. what she said p*ssed me off b/c I know many HAPPY married people who met on Jdate and I for one amd VERY glad that site was created.
some people WANT to stick with their own kind.
live and let live. why judge??!
have you read or understood ANY of the postings?
the whole POINT of this debate is that while Jdate can flourish and can "stick with their own kind" without issue, a white christian site could not exist WITHOUT issue.
that is the point. I am so happy for your friends. but who cares!
jdate is not only for white Jews 
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:43 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
None taken. By the same token though, just because it's not glaringly obvious to everyone (and honestly, if you do even a little bit of research about our public schools, it IS obvious), doesn't mean it doesn't exist and we should turn a blind eye.
good point
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:43 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
As I said above, I have nothing against whitedatersonly.com But why can groups exclude others (Blacksingles.com) and not whites without causing an uproar- its because it is my opinion that if something if a race is not specified, the majority of people will assume its for white people.
then the assumption is the problem. b/c no where in match.com or eharmony or any of those sites is their any kind of solicitation for white christians only.
perhaps if JDate and blacksingles did not exist, there would be more intermingling and free thinking.
perhaps there'd be more jewish choices on match.com if it wasn't for Jdate. perhaps you'd meet a nice anglo boy that would convert for you on match.com....
by holding that assumption, YOu are separating yourself from the options of the majority. willingly. I don't see how that helps the big picture.
I do separate myself from the options of the majority willingly on dating sites (if I ever went on one), and for a very specific reason.
In marriage, I didn't want to search for a nice anglo boy that would convert for me. First off, I don't believe in asking anyone to convert their religion because of me. If someone wants to convert, that's fine. But I don't want to be the reason. I had a teacher who said, one should convert for the love of judaism, not for the love of a jew.
I don't see anything wrong with wanting to marry someone from your own religion or culture. I also don't see anything wrong with people who marry outside their cultural religion or culture.
my point was not to be taken literally.
I am sure there are other jews on all-inclusive websites. you don't need a news only website to find a hubby. BUT if you want one, that is fine. but then EVERY OTHER group in the USA should be able to have an exclusionary website, free of "heat" also.
that is my only point.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:44 PM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: I really have to ask...
nm
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:45:20 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:44 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
....being called a 'white b1tch" on the train should be treated the same as if someone was called a the "n" word, or a "spic" (and I have been called bot a white ***** AND a spic...it's not nice)
I completly agree with this statement.
Ditto 
And, that, I call a productive debate 
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:44 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: I really have to ask...
I have never used eharmony or match but can't you specify what you are looking for? Do you make a personal add. I am christian looking for christian? Or Jewish looking for a jewish male? I honestly don't know?
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:44:55 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:44 PM |
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