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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by mommy2bella
my original thought was WHY there could be no whitesingles.com without an uproar. It turned into quite a debate on the discrimination of others.
But why can we NOT have a whitesingles.com?
b/c we do. Its like Shelly said. Its IMPLIED we have all that...
In America everything is assumed to be for the white christian group UNLESS its made to be different. Then Some will say, but what about us, the white americans who would be racist if we said it differently..
Well I would say, we get it all first and formost to begin with, so I dont see any complaining to be had.
so match.com and eharmony.com is implied for white christians?
I am trying to keep it specific to my question?
In the melting pot that is america...yu have NO idea someone s nackground and how they have been discriminated against. There is no whitechristian.com cause there are hardly any people who are white/christian alone
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Posted 10/17/07 4:07 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: I really have to ask...
AND OF COURSE Oprah has Bill Cosby on her show today...
I SWEAR I didn't know.
He makes me mad, but the statistics are astounding.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:08 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Since they are the majority, they will be the majority of the people making up any event. So you don't need to specify because it is assumed and/or understood.
And I think you have a great point. If "white" seems like a dirty word, it is all the white supremicists fault.
Please address this point in the context of the one I made above.
b/c I this is not something that is "understood" for me...or anyone in my mixed breed family, as far as I know.
As YOU said:
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
If a group is the majority of peope making up an event, you don't need to specify that it is for that group.
When its for a minority, you need to specify that, because if not, people will assume:
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:09 PM |
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LIMOMx2
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Member since 5/05 24989 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by DebG
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by mommy2bella
my original thought was WHY there could be no whitesingles.com without an uproar. It turned into quite a debate on the discrimination of others.
But why can we NOT have a whitesingles.com?
b/c we do. Its like Shelly said. Its IMPLIED we have all that...
In America everything is assumed to be for the white christian group UNLESS its made to be different. Then Some will say, but what about us, the white americans who would be racist if we said it differently..
Well I would say, we get it all first and formost to begin with, so I dont see any complaining to be had.
so match.com and eharmony.com is implied for white christians?
I am trying to keep it specific to my question?
In the melting pot that is america...yu have NO idea someone s nackground and how they have been discriminated against. There is no whitechristian.com cause there are hardly any people who are white/christian alone
I disagree. I think there are a lot of white/christians still but other races would get offended if this was done.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:09 PM |
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Lisa
I'm a PANK!!!
Member since 5/05 22334 total posts
Name:
Professional Aunts No Kids
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
Because the descendants of those people who were targeted by our forefathers are STILL feeling, and experienced discrimination and hardship as a result, that's why.
I work in Civil Rights - the whole purpose of my being for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, is to throw every ounce of my energy into eradicating discrimination, so this issue is very personal, and very real for me.
And what I've learned is that the point is NOT to make everyone the same, to ignore the very real and significant cultural experiences we share with people of the same color, religion or national origin, but to EMBRACE it and to celebrate those differences. That's why I see absolutely no problem with Jdate, Black dating websites, or Miss Black America.
The purpose of anti-discrimination laws isn't to obliviate those kinds of organizations and make everyone into a blank slate. The purpose is two-fold - to celebrate and embrace those differences, but at the same time, to ensure that NO ONE is being held back, targeted, or discriminated against because of those differences.
And the reason why our laws target protection of particular groups is because THOSE are the groups that experience the most difficulty, the most hardship. The point is to bring everyone to an even playing field - so that everyone has an equal chance to make something of themselves, without their race, their color, their religion, being the reason why they can't.
Until that's accomplished - until the differences in each of us are accepted and celebrated, instead of an excuse to hold someone back, those laws will continue to exist. If you look at the hard, fast statistics, it's pathetic, particularly in our schools. We aren't on an even playing field, by any means, and there's no getting around that. So, until we are, those laws will continue to exist, but so will organizations that cater to particular groups.
Sorry for the ramble and rant, this is just a very hot issue for me.
So if I came to you and said I wanted to start an ALL WHITE something....and I start getting sue for being a racisist....would you stand up for me...being that I am part of the majority in this country??? Would my rights be protected to freedom of expression just as an African American or a Latino???
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:09 PM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Lisa
So if I came to you and said I wanted to start an ALL WHITE something....and I start getting sue for being a racisist....would you stand up for me...being that I am part of the majority in this country??? Would my rights be protected to freedom of expression just as an African American or a Latino???
I can answer- yes, you are protected by the law.
The KKK is an active, legal gathering of people. It's disgusing, but it's true.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:11 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Lisa
Posted by Bxgell2
Because the descendants of those people who were targeted by our forefathers are STILL feeling, and experienced discrimination and hardship as a result, that's why.
I work in Civil Rights - the whole purpose of my being for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, is to throw every ounce of my energy into eradicating discrimination, so this issue is very personal, and very real for me.
And what I've learned is that the point is NOT to make everyone the same, to ignore the very real and significant cultural experiences we share with people of the same color, religion or national origin, but to EMBRACE it and to celebrate those differences. That's why I see absolutely no problem with Jdate, Black dating websites, or Miss Black America.
The purpose of anti-discrimination laws isn't to obliviate those kinds of organizations and make everyone into a blank slate. The purpose is two-fold - to celebrate and embrace those differences, but at the same time, to ensure that NO ONE is being held back, targeted, or discriminated against because of those differences.
And the reason why our laws target protection of particular groups is because THOSE are the groups that experience the most difficulty, the most hardship. The point is to bring everyone to an even playing field - so that everyone has an equal chance to make something of themselves, without their race, their color, their religion, being the reason why they can't.
Until that's accomplished - until the differences in each of us are accepted and celebrated, instead of an excuse to hold someone back, those laws will continue to exist. If you look at the hard, fast statistics, it's pathetic, particularly in our schools. We aren't on an even playing field, by any means, and there's no getting around that. So, until we are, those laws will continue to exist, but so will organizations that cater to particular groups.
Sorry for the ramble and rant, this is just a very hot issue for me.
So if I came to you and said I wanted to start an ALL WHITE something....and I start getting sue for being a racisist....would you stand up for me...being that I am part of the majority in this country??? Would my rights be protected to freedom of expression just as an African American or a Latino???
Look, personally, I think whites have just as much a right to create an organization for themselves, and UNDER THE LAW, they do, in limited circumstances, like a dating website. Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:13 PM |
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Lisa
I'm a PANK!!!
Member since 5/05 22334 total posts
Name:
Professional Aunts No Kids
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Preguntas
Posted by Lisa
So if I came to you and said I wanted to start an ALL WHITE something....and I start getting sue for being a racisist....would you stand up for me...being that I am part of the majority in this country??? Would my rights be protected to freedom of expression just as an African American or a Latino???
I can answer- yes, you are protected by the law.
The KKK is an active, legal gathering of people. It's disgusing, but it's true.
yes...I guess you are right.....it just seems that more people are willing to "stick up" for the minority than the majority...guess thats not PC
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:13 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
 Well said.
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:14:42 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:14 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
yes, well said. But like I said the past should not predicate our present situation. Is discrimination a social wound that hasn't healed yet? YES...but how do we move forward?
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:16 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Since they are the majority, they will be the majority of the people making up any event. So you don't need to specify because it is assumed and/or understood.
And I think you have a great point. If "white" seems like a dirty word, it is all the white supremicists fault.
Please address this point in the context of the one I made above.
b/c I this is not something that is "understood" for me...or anyone in my mixed breed family, as far as I know.
As YOU said:
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
If a group is the majority of peope making up an event, you don't need to specify that it is for that group.
When its for a minority, you need to specify that, because if not, people will assume:
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
I am not Preguntas. I did not make those points.
My question, directly to you, is this...
You say something is "assumed" to be for the majority...but I hold no assumption.
I don't think companies give a rats arse what color or religion you are when it comes to buying things. they may not break bread with you, but I don't think (unless it is target specific...that would not be used by any other group) that they WANT to exclude any group. that is why so many companies DO make commecials with minorities in them.
and even still, the PEOPLE in the commercial/ad may be WHITE, b/c there are MORE white people in the US (though not by much) but that doesn't mean a black person, a chinese person, or a Jew is not WHOLLY INVITED to use the product/partake in the service.
I have to say that I think part of the assumption is the monkey on the back that is memory. we are trained to think white people exclude minorities...white people banding together = trouble... and the whole 9 yards.
So, if YOU, Shelly, hold the assumption that nothing is for Jews unless you are officially invited, then that is on YOu. it doesn't mean that is the intention. but, b/c there are people that think in the same vein as you do, whitedatersonly.com could never exist (I do not argue that it should...I argue at the hypocrisy.)
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:16 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
Right back at you - seriously, I think your next job should be with my agency 
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:17 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
what about the "white" organizations that abolished slavery in this country.
that worked their arses off for the right for WOMEN and BLACKS to vote in this country.
racism is SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING. but not every organization that is created by the majority is based on that.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:19 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
affirmative action has opponents for a reason
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:19 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by mommy2bella
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
yes, well said. But like I said the past should not predicate our present situation. Is discrimination a social wound that hasn't healed yet? YES...but how do we move forward?
I hear what you are saying, I really do, but speaking from experience her, on what I do on a daily basis, there is a very real, definite reason why, in this circumstance, the past SHOULD rpedicate the present situation. You would be absolutey horrified to read some of the investgations we go through at my agency - the kinds of things that are going on at our schools are just devastating. Until we get to the source of the problem and start making some REAL changes, I don't think we CAN move forward.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:19 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
what about the "white" organizations that abolished slavery in this country.
that worked their arses off for the right for WOMEN and BLACKS to vote in this country.
racism is SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING. but not every organization that is created by the majority is based on that.
I never said EVERY white organization had that purpose, but the historical truth is that many did.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:20 PM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
Very well said, and it also reinforces our point- we are still judged and limited by the actions and poor judgement of our predecesors.
Which is a shame. Which also makes me sympathize for the rights of minorities. But it also sux that I always feel like I am judged for not being a minority in the race or religious sense. That people seem quick to assume that I am a racist, or I have no sympathy, or that I just don't understand.
But I have been a minority, in certain situations. I have been judged by my appearance. I do have compasion for those who struggle. And yet, I am lumped into a group that doesn't define me. And subject to mass generalizations. Just like everyone else.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:22 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
I am not Preguntas. I did not make those points.
My question, directly to you, is this...
You say something is "assumed" to be for the majority...but I hold no assumption.
I don't think companies give a rats arse what color or religion you are when it comes to buying things. they may not break bread with you, but I don't think (unless it is target specific...that would not be used by any other group) that they WANT to exclude any group. that is why so many companies DO make commecials with minorities in them.
and even still, the PEOPLE in the commercial/ad may be WHITE, b/c there are MORE white people in the US (though not by much) but that doesn't mean a black person, a chinese person, or a Jew is not WHOLLY INVITED to use the product/partake in the service.
I have to say that I think part of the assumption is the monkey on the back that is memory. we are trained to think white people exclude minorities...white people banding together = trouble... and the whole 9 yards.
So, if YOU, Shelly, hold the assumption that nothing is for Jews unless you are officially invited, then that is on YOu. it doesn't mean that is the intention. but, b/c there are people that think in the same vein as you do, whitedatersonly.com could never exist (I do not argue that it should...I argue at the hypocrisy.)
Sorry I got confused at who was posting.
You may hold no assumption, but many people do. I think Preguntas' statement demonstrates that.
Posted by Preguntas
The simple fact is- if the majority of people are actually white Christians, then they are going to be the majority of people making up any event.
And I don't hold the assumption that nothing is for jews unless I am officially invited.
As I said above, I have nothing against whitedatersonly.com But why can groups exclude others (Blacksingles.com) and not whites without causing an uproar- its because it is my opinion that if something if a race is not specified, the majority of people will assume its for white people.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:23 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
what about the "white" organizations that abolished slavery in this country.
that worked their arses off for the right for WOMEN and BLACKS to vote in this country.
racism is SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING. but not every organization that is created by the majority is based on that.
I never said EVERY white organization had that purpose, but the historical truth is that many did.
No. the historical truth is that the famous groups did.
it's fine to use to prove a point. and yes, there is still racism. where there is ignorance there will always be racism.
but racism and separatist ideas (ie celebrating and preserving ones unique culture-through things like JDate) are not one and the same.
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:24:30 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:24 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Preguntas
But I have been a minority, in certain situations. I have been judged by my appearance. I do have compasion for those who struggle. And yet, I am lumped into a group that doesn't define me. And subject to mass generalizations. Just like everyone else.
I think that is universal for everyone. Maybe its one thing that binds us all.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:25 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Preguntas
But I have been a minority, in certain situations. I have been judged by my appearance. I do have compasion for those who struggle. And yet, I am lumped into a group that doesn't define me. And subject to mass generalizations. Just like everyone else.
I think that is universal for everyone. Maybe its one thing that binds us all.
as Dh's grandpa used to say....and how!
agreed
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:26 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
it couldn't happen bc of the VILE racism and slavery in this country 
minority groups deserve to stand out and have their own voice
JMO
eta: that's just like saying it's unfair for IO to offer programs in Spanish. like that would be taking anything away from English speaking channels
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:28:39 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:27 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Ophelia
BUT a website such as whitepentacostaldate.com could not exist. and THAT is a separate and unique group. but they would not be allowed to openly "preserve" their culture/beliefs/heritage.
THAT is my only problem.
See, I disagree with this statement. I think it could exist. It may get some heat.
And there are plenty of sites that are limited to a division of Christianity. In fact, my old roomate was on a website she described as the catholic version of j-date.
Message edited 10/17/2007 4:28:44 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:28 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Preguntas
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Bxgell2
Would they get some heat over it? Of course. And the reason being is that traditionally, most organizations that cater to minorities, are meant to uplift them, help them and aid them in overcoming the historical ramifications of discrimination, whereas, historically, white organizations had the purpose of not just celebrating being white, but eradicating and putting down other races. That's just how it has played out in history, and unfortunately, this is the result.
Well said.
Very well said, and it also reinforces our point- we are still judged and limited by the actions and poor judgement of our predecesors.
Which is a shame. Which also makes me sympathize for the rights of minorities. But it also sux that I always feel like I am judged for not being a minority in the race or religious sense. That people seem quick to assume that I am a racist, or I have no sympathy, or that I just don't understand.
But I have been a minority, in certain situations. I have been judged by my appearance. I do have compasion for those who struggle. And yet, I am lumped into a group that doesn't define me. And subject to mass generalizations. Just like everyone else.
I see it a little differently. I don't think it's just the price we are paying for the poor decisions of our ancestors. I can tell you, in the work I do, I see discrimination every single day. It is real, it is out there, so it's not just the price we pay for what our ancestors have done, but the price we are still paying for the continuing ignorance of people.
I'm white, and I'm jewish - I've never felt any kind of anger about the fact that I'm lumped into a majority, and honestly, I've never felt that I've been judged as racist or uncaring, simply because I'm white. If you've felt that, I'm sorry that you have. But, at the same time, I think there's a very palpable difference between feeling as if people are judging you as racist and unfeeling because of the color of your skin, and someone who is going to a subpar school, receiving a subpar education, subpar services, and being hindered from getting a job, or getting into a program, solely because of the color of their skin.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:28 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
As I said above, I have nothing against whitedatersonly.com But why can groups exclude others (Blacksingles.com) and not whites without causing an uproar- its because it is my opinion that if something if a race is not specified, the majority of people will assume its for white people.
then the assumption is the problem. b/c no where in match.com or eharmony or any of those sites is their any kind of solicitation for white christians only.
perhaps if JDate and blacksingles did not exist, there would be more intermingling and free thinking.
perhaps there'd be more jewish choices on match.com if it wasn't for Jdate. perhaps you'd meet a nice anglo boy that would convert for you on match.com....
by holding that assumption, YOu are separating yourself from the options of the majority. willingly. I don't see how that helps the big picture.
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| Posted 10/17/07 4:29 PM |
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