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KGools
Happy
Member since 9/06 9532 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my  now.
::slow claps::
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Posted 5/11/16 12:40 PM  |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by Paramount
There was a comment a while back about how some said they are shocked at the people who are for Trump, and then saying how those people are out of touch.
No One will argue illegal immigration is a problem. No one.
--Trump wants to build a wall (that wont happen)
--Make the Mexicans pay for it (wont happen)
--Has threatened to go to war if they don't (wont happen).
--The problems with building a wall are so numerous its comical. We all know the wall wont be built yet he keeps saying it to make people THINK it would happen, or its a viable option. (its not on MANY levels)
Watch this is you have questions about why the wall cant work and wont Ever happen:
Women. Trump does not respect women at all.
Watch this:
Trump mocks the handicapped and thinks its funny:
I can go on and on. So when saying I am out of touch with what Americans are concerned about that could not be further from the truth.
I am shocked people would back a candidate with no experience to run the country, who makes fun or women, mocks the handicapped, is a racist and who is saying (by his own admission) just about anything right now to get the nomination. He said "I will be SO presidential".
Why not start now?
I wont change anyone's mind, and I am not trying to. But the above reasons (and more) are why I am shocked anyone would back him.
Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now.
(As an aside. I know people hate HRC with a passion. That's fine. Has she lied? Sure. So has every other politician ever. In the history of ever. Every candidate ever has flip flopped on something. When it comes down to it she has the experience to be the President. Trump does not have one microcell of experience to run the country.)
"Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now."
We are worse off now than when Obama was elected in 2008. Hopefully we can only go up with whomever is elected.
How, exactly, are we worse off?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/06/the-insiders-hard-facts-cloud-the-obama-presidency/
Don't give me an outdated link. How are YOU worse off? And how is it directly attributed to Obama?
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| Posted 5/11/16 12:52 PM |
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by KGools
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
::slow claps::
Yes, this.
I think people who really believe in Trump's vitriol don't understand checks and balances
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| Posted 5/11/16 12:53 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by Straightarrow
Posted by KGools
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
::slow claps::
Yes, this.
I think people who really believe in Trump's vitriol don't understand checks and balances
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| Posted 5/11/16 12:55 PM |
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blessedmama
LIF Infant
Member since 2/16 341 total posts
Name:
Heather`
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by Paramount
There was a comment a while back about how some said they are shocked at the people who are for Trump, and then saying how those people are out of touch.
No One will argue illegal immigration is a problem. No one.
--Trump wants to build a wall (that wont happen)
--Make the Mexicans pay for it (wont happen)
--Has threatened to go to war if they don't (wont happen).
--The problems with building a wall are so numerous its comical. We all know the wall wont be built yet he keeps saying it to make people THINK it would happen, or its a viable option. (its not on MANY levels)
Watch this is you have questions about why the wall cant work and wont Ever happen:
Women. Trump does not respect women at all.
Watch this:
Trump mocks the handicapped and thinks its funny:
I can go on and on. So when saying I am out of touch with what Americans are concerned about that could not be further from the truth.
I am shocked people would back a candidate with no experience to run the country, who makes fun or women, mocks the handicapped, is a racist and who is saying (by his own admission) just about anything right now to get the nomination. He said "I will be SO presidential".
Why not start now?
I wont change anyone's mind, and I am not trying to. But the above reasons (and more) are why I am shocked anyone would back him.
Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now.
(As an aside. I know people hate HRC with a passion. That's fine. Has she lied? Sure. So has every other politician ever. In the history of ever. Every candidate ever has flip flopped on something. When it comes down to it she has the experience to be the President. Trump does not have one microcell of experience to run the country.)
"Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now."
We are worse off now than when Obama was elected in 2008. Hopefully we can only go up with whomever is elected.
How, exactly, are we worse off?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/06/the-insiders-hard-facts-cloud-the-obama-presidency/
Don't give me an outdated link. How are YOU worse off? And how is it directly attributed to Obama?
My husband got laid off in 2008. My income dropped. High gas prices have affected us.
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| Posted 5/11/16 12:57 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by Paramount
There was a comment a while back about how some said they are shocked at the people who are for Trump, and then saying how those people are out of touch.
No One will argue illegal immigration is a problem. No one.
--Trump wants to build a wall (that wont happen)
--Make the Mexicans pay for it (wont happen)
--Has threatened to go to war if they don't (wont happen).
--The problems with building a wall are so numerous its comical. We all know the wall wont be built yet he keeps saying it to make people THINK it would happen, or its a viable option. (its not on MANY levels)
Watch this is you have questions about why the wall cant work and wont Ever happen:
Women. Trump does not respect women at all.
Watch this:
Trump mocks the handicapped and thinks its funny:
I can go on and on. So when saying I am out of touch with what Americans are concerned about that could not be further from the truth.
I am shocked people would back a candidate with no experience to run the country, who makes fun or women, mocks the handicapped, is a racist and who is saying (by his own admission) just about anything right now to get the nomination. He said "I will be SO presidential".
Why not start now?
I wont change anyone's mind, and I am not trying to. But the above reasons (and more) are why I am shocked anyone would back him.
Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now.
(As an aside. I know people hate HRC with a passion. That's fine. Has she lied? Sure. So has every other politician ever. In the history of ever. Every candidate ever has flip flopped on something. When it comes down to it she has the experience to be the President. Trump does not have one microcell of experience to run the country.)
"Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now."
We are worse off now than when Obama was elected in 2008. Hopefully we can only go up with whomever is elected.
How, exactly, are we worse off?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/06/the-insiders-hard-facts-cloud-the-obama-presidency/
Don't give me an outdated link. How are YOU worse off? And how is it directly attributed to Obama?
My husband got laid off in 2008. My income dropped. High gas prices have affected us.
High gas prices? I drive a Chevy volt so I haven't gotten gas in over a month but I did pay under $2 the last time I did. They've been pretty low for months now. And gas prices were high under bush, no? Also the president has no effect on gas prices.
Also your husband was laid off in '08. Obama became president January 20, 2009.
So basically I'm confused.
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| Posted 5/11/16 1:05 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by Straightarrow
Posted by KGools
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
::slow claps::
Yes, this.
I think people who really believe in Trump's vitriol don't understand checks and balances
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| Posted 5/11/16 1:17 PM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
IMO - The unemployment rate right now is being completely misrepresented. It's only low because so many people weren't able to find jobs, their unemployment ran out and they dropped out of the work force. The way they calculate the unemployment rate doesn't take that into consideration.
The job creation rate is also skewed. From what I've read it counts 1 person with 2 jobs as 2 people. A lot of companies have been laying off full time workers and hiring part time employees to avoid paying for their healthcare. So really more jobs aren't being created. It's just more people doing the same job. A lot of people now work 2 jobs to support their households.
In addition to that, the homeowner stats are also skewed. With the new modification programs, people that aren't able to pay their mortgages are able to stay in their homes a lot longer now. They try to modify the mortgage, but without adequate income they will eventually be denied the modification and foreclosed on. The process just takes A LOT longer now (it can take years to be denied the modifications). So families that would be homeless are still living in homes they will eventually lose but they are being considered homeowners according to the national stats. I think in the next few years, we're going to see the homeless stats go way up.
The economy isn't doing as well as we are being lead to believe. But a scared nation doesn't spend money and that in turn makes the economy worse.
ETA: I saw someone mention gas prices but this is an election year and gas prices always fall during election years. We can expect them to go back up after the election as they historically do.
Message edited 5/11/2016 1:27:43 PM.
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| Posted 5/11/16 1:20 PM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by Paramount
There was a comment a while back about how some said they are shocked at the people who are for Trump, and then saying how those people are out of touch.
No One will argue illegal immigration is a problem. No one.
--Trump wants to build a wall (that wont happen)
--Make the Mexicans pay for it (wont happen)
--Has threatened to go to war if they don't (wont happen).
--The problems with building a wall are so numerous its comical. We all know the wall wont be built yet he keeps saying it to make people THINK it would happen, or its a viable option. (its not on MANY levels)
Watch this is you have questions about why the wall cant work and wont Ever happen:
Women. Trump does not respect women at all.
Watch this:
Trump mocks the handicapped and thinks its funny:
I can go on and on. So when saying I am out of touch with what Americans are concerned about that could not be further from the truth.
I am shocked people would back a candidate with no experience to run the country, who makes fun or women, mocks the handicapped, is a racist and who is saying (by his own admission) just about anything right now to get the nomination. He said "I will be SO presidential".
Why not start now?
I wont change anyone's mind, and I am not trying to. But the above reasons (and more) are why I am shocked anyone would back him.
Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now.
(As an aside. I know people hate HRC with a passion. That's fine. Has she lied? Sure. So has every other politician ever. In the history of ever. Every candidate ever has flip flopped on something. When it comes down to it she has the experience to be the President. Trump does not have one microcell of experience to run the country.)
"Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now."
We are worse off now than when Obama was elected in 2008. Hopefully we can only go up with whomever is elected.
How, exactly, are we worse off?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/06/the-insiders-hard-facts-cloud-the-obama-presidency/
Don't give me an outdated link. How are YOU worse off? And how is it directly attributed to Obama?
My husband got laid off in 2008. My income dropped. High gas prices have affected us.
Obama did not lay off your husband.
Blame gas prices on the oil speculators.
ETA: We had 8 years of GWB. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Message edited 5/11/2016 1:35:39 PM.
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| Posted 5/11/16 1:26 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Meg1234
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Recently I've been thinking about Trump and his pro-life stance. Being a wealthy man, if he got his mistress knocked up... I think he'd def insist on an abortion. He used to be openly pro-choice. So this is a case of him changing his mind only because he had to if he wanted the support of the republican party. Who knows his real thoughts on anything?
He did exactly that!
He admitted to Howard Stern many years ago that he tried to convince Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) to have an abortion when he learned that she was pregnant!
Disgusting pig.
wow, i didn't know that but totally guessed it! most wealthy men in his position would do the same thing. hypocrites. yeah, he's a pig.
Why can't he have changed his stance after that child was born (his daughter)? Also having another baby then with Melania.
He could have changed his mind. He just doesn't seem like he actually did. He used to be very open about his pro-choice stance and even supported organizations that were pro-choice. His daughter with Marla was born in '93 if I recall correctly and his statement about being pro-choice was in 2000? So it's not like the birth of his beautiful daughter is what changed his mind. Now when he's asked about it, he dances around and says he "hates the idea of abortion".... but the fact that he dances around it and doesn't answer the question firmly like he used to when he was pro-choice, leads me to believe that he doesn't actually want to be pro-life and he's just saying it because it's kind of required if you want to run for office as a republican.
ITA with this.
Furthermore, I think this phenomenon really indicates how desperately we need a third party that is unflinchingly to the left on social issues but more flexible on others.
While I lean to the left in general, I recognize that there are plenty of shades of gray when it comes to fiscal and economic policy, immigration reform, etc., and I consider myself flexible on those issues, having landed in different places on the spectrum with regard to them.
However, I do not - and never will - see human rights as anything other than black and white. By human rights I mean many of the social issues of the day - a woman's right to choose, protection against discrimination for the LGBT community, unjustified wars, etc.
I would love a candidate with that unwavering social conscience who doesn't feel the need to walk the party line on everything else.
Message edited 5/11/2016 2:20:07 PM.
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| Posted 5/11/16 2:19 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
As for the economy, there are three sides to every story, and here's Politifact's side:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/28/barack-obama/barack-obama-tells-jon-stewart-economy-every-metri/
Three common economic statistics that are widely considered important are gross domestic product, unemployment rate and employment level. And looking just at these three measurements, Obama has a strong record in office.
...
Where things haven’t gone so well for Obama
While Obama has some statistics to point to, it is wrong to say that "the economy, by every metric, is better than when I came into office."
We found several important measurements that went in the wrong direction during Obama’s tenure.
...
Our ruling
Obama said, "The economy, by every metric, is better than when I came into office."
That claim is too sweeping. Certain measures of wages and income, the poverty rate and the duration of unemployment are all worse now than they were when Obama "came into office."
The statement contains an element of truth but ignores facts that would give a different impression, so we rate it Mostly False.
The "Mostly False" is based on his statement of every metric being better.
There are definitely positives to the economy, but also a lot of negatives. The stories the media likes to report on are cherry-picked to advance their agenda (on both sides)
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| Posted 5/11/16 2:20 PM |
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blessedmama
LIF Infant
Member since 2/16 341 total posts
Name:
Heather`
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by blessedmama
Posted by Paramount
There was a comment a while back about how some said they are shocked at the people who are for Trump, and then saying how those people are out of touch.
No One will argue illegal immigration is a problem. No one.
--Trump wants to build a wall (that wont happen)
--Make the Mexicans pay for it (wont happen)
--Has threatened to go to war if they don't (wont happen).
--The problems with building a wall are so numerous its comical. We all know the wall wont be built yet he keeps saying it to make people THINK it would happen, or its a viable option. (its not on MANY levels)
Watch this is you have questions about why the wall cant work and wont Ever happen:
Women. Trump does not respect women at all.
Watch this:
Trump mocks the handicapped and thinks its funny:
I can go on and on. So when saying I am out of touch with what Americans are concerned about that could not be further from the truth.
I am shocked people would back a candidate with no experience to run the country, who makes fun or women, mocks the handicapped, is a racist and who is saying (by his own admission) just about anything right now to get the nomination. He said "I will be SO presidential".
Why not start now?
I wont change anyone's mind, and I am not trying to. But the above reasons (and more) are why I am shocked anyone would back him.
Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now.
(As an aside. I know people hate HRC with a passion. That's fine. Has she lied? Sure. So has every other politician ever. In the history of ever. Every candidate ever has flip flopped on something. When it comes down to it she has the experience to be the President. Trump does not have one microcell of experience to run the country.)
"Plus:
The economy is strong
Housing is up
Unemployment is down
Dow is up
Jobs are strong.
Seems like America is pretty great now."
We are worse off now than when Obama was elected in 2008. Hopefully we can only go up with whomever is elected.
How, exactly, are we worse off?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/06/the-insiders-hard-facts-cloud-the-obama-presidency/
Don't give me an outdated link. How are YOU worse off? And how is it directly attributed to Obama?
My husband got laid off in 2008. My income dropped. High gas prices have affected us.
Obama did not lay off your husband.
Blame gas prices on the oil speculators.
ETA: We had 8 years of GWB. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Sorry, you are correct, it was 2008 the year everything went to shit with the stock market and layoffs.
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| Posted 5/11/16 4:30 PM |
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Meg1234
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Recently I've been thinking about Trump and his pro-life stance. Being a wealthy man, if he got his mistress knocked up... I think he'd def insist on an abortion. He used to be openly pro-choice. So this is a case of him changing his mind only because he had to if he wanted the support of the republican party. Who knows his real thoughts on anything?
He did exactly that!
He admitted to Howard Stern many years ago that he tried to convince Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) to have an abortion when he learned that she was pregnant!
Disgusting pig.
wow, i didn't know that but totally guessed it! most wealthy men in his position would do the same thing. hypocrites. yeah, he's a pig.
Why can't he have changed his stance after that child was born (his daughter)? Also having another baby then with Melania.
He could have changed his mind. He just doesn't seem like he actually did. He used to be very open about his pro-choice stance and even supported organizations that were pro-choice. His daughter with Marla was born in '93 if I recall correctly and his statement about being pro-choice was in 2000? So it's not like the birth of his beautiful daughter is what changed his mind. Now when he's asked about it, he dances around and says he "hates the idea of abortion".... but the fact that he dances around it and doesn't answer the question firmly like he used to when he was pro-choice, leads me to believe that he doesn't actually want to be pro-life and he's just saying it because it's kind of required if you want to run for office as a republican.
ITA with this.
Furthermore, I think this phenomenon really indicates how desperately we need a third party that is unflinchingly to the left on social issues but more flexible on others.
While I lean to the left in general, I recognize that there are plenty of shades of gray when it comes to fiscal and economic policy, immigration reform, etc., and I consider myself flexible on those issues, having landed in different places on the spectrum with regard to them.
However, I do not - and never will - see human rights as anything other than black and white. By human rights I mean many of the social issues of the day - a woman's right to choose, protection against discrimination for the LGBT community, unjustified wars, etc.
I would love a candidate with that unwavering social conscience who doesn't feel the need to walk the party line on everything else.
That is so on point of how I feel, too.
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| Posted 5/11/16 4:44 PM |
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JennZ
MY LIFE!!
Member since 8/05 25463 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
Bravo!!!!!! You just won the whole Damn thread. FINALLY a voice of reason.
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| Posted 5/11/16 4:53 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
I have read enough LIF election threads to know that some of the most knowledgable, educated, expert political analysts are here on LIF.
I'm not attempting in anyway to say your multi quote filled with facts posts are wrong in anyway.
However, I will tell you one untruth that is being constantly pontificated here, on tv and online.
"Most Donald Trump supporters are uneducated, angry, low income people"
that is the biggest lie in this entire campaign cycle.
I am an educator and consultant to some of the most highly educated, very high income earning people in this country. I speak nationally to thousands of doctors per year so I'm talking about doctors from Portland OR to East Hampton. I have an opportunity to get to know many of them very well and become friends. I just had dinner in NYC with 22 of the most successful doctors in my branch of healthcare, one undecided all the others voting for trump. They are "small" business owners whose industry has been decimated by the affordable healthcare act. The amount of compliance and regulatory issues they have in this adminstration has forced many of them to retire early or sell their practices to institutions. The last 7.5 years have changed the landscape of my profession in a way that can never be repaired.
We have very high traffic message boards like LIF for doctors and educators in my field. the trump vs Clinton poll started a few days ago has over 10,000 votes for trump out of 15,000 votes so far.
Although they are not putting lawn signs out in front of their practices or putting bumper stickers on their Porsches they ARE voting for Trump. Most of them have voted democrat for years.
But everyone can keep believing that people with doctorate and/or PhDs are not voting for Trump.
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| Posted 5/12/16 8:40 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Meg1234
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Recently I've been thinking about Trump and his pro-life stance. Being a wealthy man, if he got his mistress knocked up... I think he'd def insist on an abortion. He used to be openly pro-choice. So this is a case of him changing his mind only because he had to if he wanted the support of the republican party. Who knows his real thoughts on anything?
He did exactly that!
He admitted to Howard Stern many years ago that he tried to convince Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) to have an abortion when he learned that she was pregnant!
Disgusting pig.
wow, i didn't know that but totally guessed it! most wealthy men in his position would do the same thing. hypocrites. yeah, he's a pig.
Why can't he have changed his stance after that child was born (his daughter)? Also having another baby then with Melania.
He could have changed his mind. He just doesn't seem like he actually did. He used to be very open about his pro-choice stance and even supported organizations that were pro-choice. His daughter with Marla was born in '93 if I recall correctly and his statement about being pro-choice was in 2000? So it's not like the birth of his beautiful daughter is what changed his mind. Now when he's asked about it, he dances around and says he "hates the idea of abortion".... but the fact that he dances around it and doesn't answer the question firmly like he used to when he was pro-choice, leads me to believe that he doesn't actually want to be pro-life and he's just saying it because it's kind of required if you want to run for office as a republican.
ITA with this.
Furthermore, I think this phenomenon really indicates how desperately we need a third party that is unflinchingly to the left on social issues but more flexible on others.
While I lean to the left in general, I recognize that there are plenty of shades of gray when it comes to fiscal and economic policy, immigration reform, etc., and I consider myself flexible on those issues, having landed in different places on the spectrum with regard to them.
However, I do not - and never will - see human rights as anything other than black and white. By human rights I mean many of the social issues of the day - a woman's right to choose, protection against discrimination for the LGBT community, unjustified wars, etc.
I would love a candidate with that unwavering social conscience who doesn't feel the need to walk the party line on everything else.
That is so on point of how I feel, too.
It's called the Libertarian party. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
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| Posted 5/12/16 9:52 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by sunnyplus3
I have read enough LIF election threads to know that some of the most knowledgable, educated, expert political analysts are here on LIF.
I'm not attempting in anyway to say your multi quote filled with facts posts are wrong in anyway.
However, I will tell you one untruth that is being constantly pontificated here, on tv and online.
"Most Donald Trump supporters are uneducated, angry, low income people"
that is the biggest lie in this entire campaign cycle.
I am an educator and consultant to some of the most highly educated, very high income earning people in this country. I speak nationally to thousands of doctors per year so I'm talking about doctors from Portland OR to East Hampton. I have an opportunity to get to know many of them very well and become friends. I just had dinner in NYC with 22 of the most successful doctors in my branch of healthcare, one undecided all the others voting for trump. They are "small" business owners whose industry has been decimated by the affordable healthcare act. The amount of compliance and regulatory issues they have in this adminstration has forced many of them to retire early or sell their practices to institutions. The last 7.5 years have changed the landscape of my profession in a way that can never be repaired.
We have very high traffic message boards like LIF for doctors and educators in my field. the trump vs Clinton poll started a few days ago has over 10,000 votes for trump out of 15,000 votes so far.
Although they are not putting lawn signs out in front of their practices or putting bumper stickers on their Porsches they ARE voting for Trump. Most of them have voted democrat for years.
But everyone can keep believing that people with doctorate and/or PhDs are not voting for Trump.
Makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure these people you speak of tend to be on the wealthier side, which is exactly who Trump will help.
However, from what I've seen, a lot of the blue collar/middle class Trump supporters are uneducated about the govt and don't realize that Trump could give a flying f*ck about them. But, they want to make 'murica great again! SMFH.
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| Posted 5/12/16 9:56 AM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by sunnyplus3
I have read enough LIF election threads to know that some of the most knowledgable, educated, expert political analysts are here on LIF.
I'm not attempting in anyway to say your multi quote filled with facts posts are wrong in anyway.
However, I will tell you one untruth that is being constantly pontificated here, on tv and online.
"Most Donald Trump supporters are uneducated, angry, low income people"
that is the biggest lie in this entire campaign cycle.
I am an educator and consultant to some of the most highly educated, very high income earning people in this country. I speak nationally to thousands of doctors per year so I'm talking about doctors from Portland OR to East Hampton. I have an opportunity to get to know many of them very well and become friends. I just had dinner in NYC with 22 of the most successful doctors in my branch of healthcare, one undecided all the others voting for trump. They are "small" business owners whose industry has been decimated by the affordable healthcare act. The amount of compliance and regulatory issues they have in this adminstration has forced many of them to retire early or sell their practices to institutions. The last 7.5 years have changed the landscape of my profession in a way that can never be repaired.
We have very high traffic message boards like LIF for doctors and educators in my field. the trump vs Clinton poll started a few days ago has over 10,000 votes for trump out of 15,000 votes so far.
Although they are not putting lawn signs out in front of their practices or putting bumper stickers on their Porsches they ARE voting for Trump. Most of them have voted democrat for years.
But everyone can keep believing that people with doctorate and/or PhDs are not voting for Trump.
Makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure these people you speak of tend to be on the wealthier side, which is exactly who Trump will help.
However, from what I've seen, a lot of the blue collar/middle class Trump supporters are uneducated about the govt and don't realize that Trump could give a flying f*ck about them. But, they want to make 'murica great again! SMFH.
That's my uncle and his wife right there. 100% for Trump. His wife has a 10th grade education, my uncle a high school graduate. They want illegals deported and Muslims burned at the stake, never mind that they would scam the system any chance they got..
But they're idiots. Yes, this is my own family I'm talking about.
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:21 AM |
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blu6385
Member since 5/08 8351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
thank you for saying everything I always try to say but much better. I always say if you want change don't worry about the president so much but worry about the congressmen. we need to change who is in there. However with that said. I still don't think Trump should be the face of our nation.
PS - I don't think you need to be political science major to know what you wrote. as long as you paid attention in social studies in middle and high school you should know the basics on how the government works. it saddens and scares me people don't know   
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:31 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Meg1234
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Recently I've been thinking about Trump and his pro-life stance. Being a wealthy man, if he got his mistress knocked up... I think he'd def insist on an abortion. He used to be openly pro-choice. So this is a case of him changing his mind only because he had to if he wanted the support of the republican party. Who knows his real thoughts on anything?
He did exactly that!
He admitted to Howard Stern many years ago that he tried to convince Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) to have an abortion when he learned that she was pregnant!
Disgusting pig.
wow, i didn't know that but totally guessed it! most wealthy men in his position would do the same thing. hypocrites. yeah, he's a pig.
Why can't he have changed his stance after that child was born (his daughter)? Also having another baby then with Melania.
He could have changed his mind. He just doesn't seem like he actually did. He used to be very open about his pro-choice stance and even supported organizations that were pro-choice. His daughter with Marla was born in '93 if I recall correctly and his statement about being pro-choice was in 2000? So it's not like the birth of his beautiful daughter is what changed his mind. Now when he's asked about it, he dances around and says he "hates the idea of abortion".... but the fact that he dances around it and doesn't answer the question firmly like he used to when he was pro-choice, leads me to believe that he doesn't actually want to be pro-life and he's just saying it because it's kind of required if you want to run for office as a republican.
ITA with this.
Furthermore, I think this phenomenon really indicates how desperately we need a third party that is unflinchingly to the left on social issues but more flexible on others.
While I lean to the left in general, I recognize that there are plenty of shades of gray when it comes to fiscal and economic policy, immigration reform, etc., and I consider myself flexible on those issues, having landed in different places on the spectrum with regard to them.
However, I do not - and never will - see human rights as anything other than black and white. By human rights I mean many of the social issues of the day - a woman's right to choose, protection against discrimination for the LGBT community, unjustified wars, etc.
I would love a candidate with that unwavering social conscience who doesn't feel the need to walk the party line on everything else.
That is so on point of how I feel, too.
It's called the Libertarian party. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
Right, but I don't want fiscally conservative. I want flexibilty and thoughtful analysis of what our country needs at the time instead of automatic "left" or "right" approaches.
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:32 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by JennP
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by JennP
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Meg1234
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Recently I've been thinking about Trump and his pro-life stance. Being a wealthy man, if he got his mistress knocked up... I think he'd def insist on an abortion. He used to be openly pro-choice. So this is a case of him changing his mind only because he had to if he wanted the support of the republican party. Who knows his real thoughts on anything?
He did exactly that!
He admitted to Howard Stern many years ago that he tried to convince Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) to have an abortion when he learned that she was pregnant!
Disgusting pig.
wow, i didn't know that but totally guessed it! most wealthy men in his position would do the same thing. hypocrites. yeah, he's a pig.
Why can't he have changed his stance after that child was born (his daughter)? Also having another baby then with Melania.
He could have changed his mind. He just doesn't seem like he actually did. He used to be very open about his pro-choice stance and even supported organizations that were pro-choice. His daughter with Marla was born in '93 if I recall correctly and his statement about being pro-choice was in 2000? So it's not like the birth of his beautiful daughter is what changed his mind. Now when he's asked about it, he dances around and says he "hates the idea of abortion".... but the fact that he dances around it and doesn't answer the question firmly like he used to when he was pro-choice, leads me to believe that he doesn't actually want to be pro-life and he's just saying it because it's kind of required if you want to run for office as a republican.
ITA with this.
Furthermore, I think this phenomenon really indicates how desperately we need a third party that is unflinchingly to the left on social issues but more flexible on others.
While I lean to the left in general, I recognize that there are plenty of shades of gray when it comes to fiscal and economic policy, immigration reform, etc., and I consider myself flexible on those issues, having landed in different places on the spectrum with regard to them.
However, I do not - and never will - see human rights as anything other than black and white. By human rights I mean many of the social issues of the day - a woman's right to choose, protection against discrimination for the LGBT community, unjustified wars, etc.
I would love a candidate with that unwavering social conscience who doesn't feel the need to walk the party line on everything else.
That is so on point of how I feel, too.
It's called the Libertarian party. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
Right, but I don't want fiscally conservative. I want flexibilty and thoughtful analysis of what our country needs at the time instead of automatic "left" or "right" approaches.
They are not blindly fiscally conservative. Gary Johnson is most likely going to be their candidate again. Check him out. I wish he had a halfway decent chance of winning.
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:35 AM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
|
Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by blu6385
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by blessedmama
They want someone who gets things done as many, if not most do not. The ones that do, have dropped out of the race :(
This sentence bothers me so much because people keep repeating it (way more than just the poster I quoted, so this isn't just directed at you), like as if Trump somehow won't be bound by the constitution.
He can't get ANYTHING DONE any more than any other politician can, because our government doesn't work that way. He doesn't have a plan for half of the things he says, and anything he wants to do has to be approved by congress anyway. Half the things he wants to do are unconstitutional!!
This is what kills me.. regular people don't understand how the government really works, and I understand that. I was a political science major in college and one of the things we learned was that people generally don't have the first clue as to what is going on - and we're talking about people who actually follow the news. But TRUMP has demonstrated time and time again that HE doesn't know how our government works either!
Things are not supposed to happen quickly. That's one of the assurances we have to protect against a dictatorship, the slow, agonizing process of passing laws and whatnot. This is one of the reasons NO PRESIDENT can ever do all they say they will do. Because Congress won't allow it. But what happens then? We hate on the president but we either don't vote in the congressional elections - which IMO are even more important than the president - or we vote the same people in again and again (I am guilty of this myself). Congress are the people who are making or breaking this country. The president is just the face of our nation.
Personally, I don't want the face of our nation to be an blowhard with 7 bankruptcies under his belt who can't verbalize any of his plans for our country, who is completely lacking in social grace.
Stepping off my now.
thank you for saying everything I always try to say but much better. I always say if you want change don't worry about the president so much but worry about the congressmen. we need to change who is in there. However with that said. I still don't think Trump should be the face of our nation.
PS - I don't think you need to be political science major to know what you wrote. as long as you paid attention in social studies in middle and high school you should know the basics on how the government works. it saddens and scares me people don't know
2 things - I absolutely did NOT pay attention to high school social studies. I did know the basics but I didn't get my stuff together until about 5 years after I graduated. I was actually very reluctant to take a single political science class in college and even dropped it the first time. But then I loved it.
I mentioned the political science major not to underscore the point of how government works, but because there have been studies done time and again that prove - just as this thread does - that the public DOES NOT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND what the issues facing our government really are. And they don't vote on the issues, they vote on whatever they believe, which is usually completely factually incorrect. There are examples of that on this very thread but I'm not going to call anyone out. There are probably a thousand examples on this board if you search for it.
Message edited 5/12/2016 10:45:07 AM.
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:44 AM |
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Nickles01
LIF Infant
Member since 3/16 165 total posts
Name:
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
IMO - The unemployment rate right now is being completely misrepresented. It's only low because so many people weren't able to find jobs, their unemployment ran out and they dropped out of the work force. The way they calculate the unemployment rate doesn't take that into consideration.
The job creation rate is also skewed. From what I've read it counts 1 person with 2 jobs as 2 people. A lot of companies have been laying off full time workers and hiring part time employees to avoid paying for their healthcare. So really more jobs aren't being created. It's just more people doing the same job. A lot of people now work 2 jobs to support their households.
In addition to that, the homeowner stats are also skewed. With the new modification programs, people that aren't able to pay their mortgages are able to stay in their homes a lot longer now. They try to modify the mortgage, but without adequate income they will eventually be denied the modification and foreclosed on. The process just takes A LOT longer now (it can take years to be denied the modifications). So families that would be homeless are still living in homes they will eventually lose but they are being considered homeowners according to the national stats. I think in the next few years, we're going to see the homeless stats go way up.
The economy isn't doing as well as we are being lead to believe. But a scared nation doesn't spend money and that in turn makes the economy worse.
ETA: I saw someone mention gas prices but this is an election year and gas prices always fall during election years. We can expect them to go back up after the election as they historically do.
This x 1000
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:44 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by Nickles01
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
IMO - The unemployment rate right now is being completely misrepresented. It's only low because so many people weren't able to find jobs, their unemployment ran out and they dropped out of the work force. The way they calculate the unemployment rate doesn't take that into consideration.
The job creation rate is also skewed. From what I've read it counts 1 person with 2 jobs as 2 people. A lot of companies have been laying off full time workers and hiring part time employees to avoid paying for their healthcare. So really more jobs aren't being created. It's just more people doing the same job. A lot of people now work 2 jobs to support their households.
In addition to that, the homeowner stats are also skewed. With the new modification programs, people that aren't able to pay their mortgages are able to stay in their homes a lot longer now. They try to modify the mortgage, but without adequate income they will eventually be denied the modification and foreclosed on. The process just takes A LOT longer now (it can take years to be denied the modifications). So families that would be homeless are still living in homes they will eventually lose but they are being considered homeowners according to the national stats. I think in the next few years, we're going to see the homeless stats go way up.
The economy isn't doing as well as we are being lead to believe. But a scared nation doesn't spend money and that in turn makes the economy worse.
ETA: I saw someone mention gas prices but this is an election year and gas prices always fall during election years. We can expect them to go back up after the election as they historically do.
This x 1000
Gas prices are the lowest they have been in years! It was actually under $2 a gallon a year ago. It was over $4 8 years ago. But, none of that matters because the president has little to do with it. People just like to blame/commend them for it.
Unemployment may not be as low as it seems, but it is a hell of a lot better than it was when I was laid off in 2010 and received 99 weeks of UI because the economy was so crappy that it kept getting extended. People are always going to drop off the unemployment list, so the number is never going to be 100% accurate.
However, it sure isn't the 40% or whatever ridiculous number Trump claimed it actually is!
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| Posted 5/12/16 10:58 AM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Clinton vs Trump
Posted by ohbaby08
However, it sure isn't the 40% or whatever ridiculous number Trump claimed it actually is!
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
The labor force participation rate is 62.8% so that does make it just about 40% - it's not that much of an exaggeration.
I agree that gas prices have nothing to do with the president. I just saw someone posted that they are low and it seemed like the credit was going to Obama for that. So, I just wanted to mention that election years the price always drops. They will eventually skyrocket again.
Our economy is not in a good place and the stats are being misrepresented to give us a false sense of security.
Message edited 5/12/2016 11:12:52 AM.
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| Posted 5/12/16 11:10 AM |
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