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I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
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LeeCR7
LIF Infant
Member since 5/08 138 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Sorry this is so long. I tend to think in depth about important decisions, and I thought I would share my thinking. Feel free to skim or skip!
I am an Independent. I have voted for both main parties as well as for a 3rd party. I also respect other people's opinions and never try to change other's minds about politics. But I think this is a worthy discussion, so I will add my thoughts.
I think there is absolutely an inherent contradiction in voting for a party that considers your group (whether gender, religion, sexual orientation or race) as less deserving of rights than other groups. Regardless of your feelings about abortion, the ways the Republicans are trying to attack it and other women's rights are, frankly, insane: unnecessary medical procedures, restricting access to Planned Parenthood, punishing female lawmakers for using the word vagina, voting against a domestic violence protection bill, not signing a fair pay act, etc. Taken singularly, these are worrying enough; taken together, they are horrifying. It speaks to a general mentality in the Republican party.
I also agree with previous posters that the marriage of religion and politics in many of these policies is dangerous. I love how Joe Biden handled the abortion question in his debate; he has his religious beliefs but they will not be forced on others. Ryan basically said the opposite; he said he cannot separate his political life from his religious one. I think this is a common theme for Republican lawmakers.
I actually agree that Romney is more moderate than he is portrayed; however, he, like all politicians, is going to be concentrating on getting a second term, so he will want to satisfy his base. Apparently, his base wants these measures against women. I have no doubt that Romney will allow or even push for some of them, including endangering Roe v Wade. The fact that the next president will nominate new judges to the Supreme (which right now has more conservatives than moderates or liberals) makes the stakes especially high.
I have no illusions that Democrat lawmakers are pro-women; however, for the sake of politics, they are trying to seem like they are. So even if their motives aren't entirely honest, they, at least, are not trying to attack and subjugate an entire group of people. It is unlikely that they will work against women, if only to look like they care about women. In this case, motives don't matter as much as results.
Finally, I completely understand those who want to make the economy their top issue. Before the 2008 election, I said to my husband that whoever won would be a one-term president because there was no way they could turn around an economic disaster in 4 years. So I am pleasantly surprised that Obama has a 50/50 chance at winning. If you disagree with Obama's economic policies, then absolutely don't vote for him. However, if you just don't think it is happening fast enough, I would consider the fact that we were nearly in a depression, and Obama not only helped pull us out of it, but is actually improving the economy. My husband and I both lost our jobs, as well as many other friends and family, but we are all employed now. I would just urge people to consider if anyone could have turned the economy around faster. I, personally, don't think so; I am impressed that we are doing as well as we are (the jobs report, the housing market improving, prices except for gas stabilizing, etc).
So, although I voted for McCain in 2008 (a real American hero and moderate), Obama has my vote this year (we're in PA, a swing state). I will not vote for a party or person who continually disrespects not only women, but other minorities. For the first time, I will probably vote for all Democrats because I am so disgusted by the Republican Party. As someone else said, they are on the wrong side of history. Perhaps if we, as women, harness our collective power, we can send a message that we will not stand for this anymore. We can change things, at least superficially. It is at least worth trying.
Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/opinion/sunday/the-attack-on-women-is-real.html?_r=0
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75892.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/new_home_construction_rises_as.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-destler/americas-improving-economy_b_1965190.html
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Posted 10/17/12 9:28 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Bearcat
Love my little girls!!! <3
Member since 6/10 10818 total posts
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E
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LeeCR7
Well said! I, for one, read all of it, and thanks for sharing your opinion. It is nice to hear people's informed perspectives.
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| Posted 10/17/12 9:49 PM |
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isabelle2137
LIF Adult
Member since 12/06 1076 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
damn the FMs......
Message edited 10/17/2012 10:08:13 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/12 10:00 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
Message edited 10/17/2012 11:41:57 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/12 11:37 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by isabelle2137
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
damn the FMs......
You need a wider variety of friends then. I am a FT working mom...bread winner at that. Trying to stay employed and feed my family. My dad runs a 2 man operation that requires $250,000 per year just to operate and one of those men is my DH. Not jumping down your throat, but you are making an assumption.
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| Posted 10/17/12 11:39 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for. I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
 
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| Posted 10/17/12 11:39 PM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by isabelle2137
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
damn the FMs......
You need a wider variety of friends then. I am a FT working mom...bread winner at that. Trying to stay employed and feed my family. My dad runs a 2 man operation that requires $250,000 per year just to operate and one of those men is my DH. Not jumping down your throat, but you are making an assumption.
And I am a FTWM also the bread winner with a part time job. And I am not alone.
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| Posted 10/18/12 12:58 AM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by Xelindrya
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by isabelle2137
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
damn the FMs......
You need a wider variety of friends then. I am a FT working mom...bread winner at that. Trying to stay employed and feed my family. My dad runs a 2 man operation that requires $250,000 per year just to operate and one of those men is my DH. Not jumping down your throat, but you are making an assumption.
And I am a FTWM also the bread winner with a part time job. And I am not alone.
I am still undecided but I am also the breadwinner and I have always voted Republican (undecided this election due to other issues, nothing to do with "women's rights" b/c although I am a woman I have an opinion that has very little to do with the fact that I AM a woman and I can vote based on that, isn't that what equality is all about?
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| Posted 10/18/12 6:00 AM |
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peanutbutter2
Carpe diem!
Member since 11/10 5287 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
I think this is much more well said than how I put some of my thoughts.
Message edited 10/18/2012 6:41:45 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/12 6:20 AM |
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ItsTime2011
Meh...
Member since 1/11 2148 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by JAAMS
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
I think this is much more well said than how I put some of my thoughts.
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| Posted 10/18/12 7:37 AM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
Your points are fair, valid and well-stated. Thank you for sharing. For me, at least, it helps me more clearly get a point of view that is not my own.
That said, I personally do feel like my rights are being attacked, I don't think it is over-dramatic, and therefore it is a priority to me. I also don't think abortion is the main women's issue. It is one, and an important one, but I think it is somewhat representative and encompassing of many, many other issues. As I've mentioned, I don't think it SHOULD be an issue in this election or any others, it astounds me that it is, but as long as it continues to be, I will continue to vote against any party that is not CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY in support of all women's rights.
I believe the point of this thread was to understand what lies beneath the difference in opinion here and, at least for me, that has been accomplished. While I don't agree with the other perspective (and to be totally honest I can't completely wrap my head around it), I do respect it and understand that there IS a difference, and that is fine! So thank you!
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| Posted 10/18/12 7:49 AM |
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DumpsterBaby
My compass when I'm lost
Member since 5/11 2210 total posts
Name:
My anchor when I get tossed
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
This s an excellent explanation, and I really appreciate it. To me, I wasn't putting it up against the economy or anything else as more of a priority, it beame an issue that stopped me in my tracks and I wanted to discuss it. As I researched more and listened to the candidates, it definitely became more important to me. And like it was previously mentioned, taxes/economy are variables that can/will change but the potential for chipping away at women's rights is to me a slippery slope that I can't reconcile. I feel like I'm a woman before I'm a Democrat, so that's why it t seemed incongruous to me, but now I've read some very insightful answers that allow me to see the other side.
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| Posted 10/18/12 8:35 AM |
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ThePinkGoose
In Your Hands
Member since 8/08 4706 total posts
Name:
Nunya
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by Xelindrya
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by isabelle2137
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
damn the FMs......
You need a wider variety of friends then. I am a FT working mom...bread winner at that. Trying to stay employed and feed my family. My dad runs a 2 man operation that requires $250,000 per year just to operate and one of those men is my DH. Not jumping down your throat, but you are making an assumption.
And I am a FTWM also the bread winner with a part time job. And I am not alone.
 Glad to see i'm not alone too. The statement of "that tells me something" is completely off-base. It's about as appropriate as generalizing the majority of voters that will vote for Obama based on the "OBAMAPHONE" Youtube video. I'm a FT working woman, husband, 2 stepkids, just trying to survive in this horrible economy. I work for a small business that will not withstand another four years under Obama. I fully support Romney, the abortion issue is a non-issue to me and I am not offended at all by his view or statements about women.
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| Posted 10/18/12 8:45 AM |
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peanutbutter2
Carpe diem!
Member since 11/10 5287 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by lipglossjunky73
This baffles the crap out of me. All I can say is this.... And I am going to preface this by saying I can ONLY go by the friends on FB who are "liking" Romney and Ryan. They all seem to be stay at home moms who are living in wealthy situations. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, or here, or inviting 800 women to now jump down my throat. I am merely saying the ones I personally see liking them on FB, which I would assume mean they plan to vote for them, all live in this situation. And that tells me something.
I, respectfully, don't know if that can really tell us something. I'm none of those things...I'm not a mom...I work full-time...and I'm middle class. I'm undecided but leaning toward Romney. Most of the Romney supporters who I know do not have children and work full-time in a middle class situation. Then again, the vast majority of people who I know don't have children yet though, so that definitely influences the "sample" for whom I can speak. I think that last statement holds true for everyone...we can only speak for a small sample size when it comes to personal experience.
Message edited 10/18/2012 9:01:29 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/12 8:50 AM |
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by Blu-ize
I'm not a Romney supporter but I'm not personally affected by much of his stance but I still want to defend women's rights and health. I really feel we have to take care of each other and stand up for what's right.
I agree. For example I've never had to use the services of Planned Parenthood but for some women it's the only way they can get any kind of healthcare. So their existence is very important to me.
I suppose a Republican woman could counter with concerns about the economy, which affects us all v. concerns of the individual, and I respect that. But it's hard to see how women aren't still treated as second-class citizens in this country.
If the definition of "life" is changed from birth to conception, women's rights become subordinate to that of the unborn child. Thus, women become 2nd class citizens.
Women's issues are my top priority because I am a woman and a mother to a daughter. I cannot support any candidate that supports redefining "life" to begin at conception.
I don't think that defining life should be based on whether or not the unborn baby's rights come before the woman's or vice versa. If life does indeed begin at conception, or when the heart starts beating, then that's science. You can't say life begins at birth out of convenience. I know that my baby's life started well before he was born and if something had happened to him while I was pregnant, I would have said he had died. You can't die if you are already without life. I don't know if I'm 100% pro-life, but I find the term pro-choice to be quite hypocritical. Where is the baby's "choice" in all this?
And if life begins at birth, then partial birth abortion is okay, too? I don't know but I'm nauseated and heartsick at the thought of killing a baby who is in the process o being born. The poor thing is suffering as it is being squeezed through the birth canal, then we reward it by killing it? It's criminal in my mind.
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| Posted 10/18/12 8:53 AM |
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ALD618
LIF Infant
Member since 4/11 325 total posts
Name:
Ashley
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DumpsterBaby
But I don't want it to get nasty.
For the women of these boards, if you plan to vote for Romney, how do you reconcile his stand on womens issues?
First off, people need to understand that voting is a personal issue and someone does not need to justify their reasoning to anyone.
So going back to the question, I have a few answers to this.
1) It is NOT a first priority. The main woman's issue is abortion. In comparrison to the shit state of this country right now thats actually a non-issue to me. The way I look at it is this. This election is not the first, and will not be the last, where abortion is discussed. There have been many republicans who have been in office who have been "conservative" when it comes to abortion. All you hear is :"they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade" or "they can put someone in to overturn it". I have yet to see this be overturned. It's not a priority to the poiticians either. Putting some restrictions on it is not the same as overturning it. However, I understand why some would be upset at even that, but on the same note...you are asking me to justify why this is not as important an issue...can you justify to me why this would top the economy? If you dont happen to be part of the growing population of people who are struggling to find work or keep their jobs, hey I think thats awesome. However, many people on here lecture about putting yourself in other people's shoes, understand you need to do the same.
2) While I would love to believe that one of those guys are superheros and they are going to come in and save women...they will make everything equal, yadda yadda...neither one of them is going to do it because really, that's not what the president does. The reality is that most people are not even getting cost of living raises...some people dont even have a job! Employers are cutting back, not growing, yet the president of all people (regardless of who it is) is going to force them to increase wages of women in particular. Honestly though I have seen a shift in who the bread winners are (now its more common to see women as bread winners). However, it is unlikely that a president can do anything about the percentage that a woman makes. TBH, I have not heard either one say that they have a plan to change that simply because they cant. Education is going to change that? Talk to me about my student loan debt, please. Besides, if Obama was going to swoop in and do something about it, dont you think he would have? How about the other presidents? This isnt a new issue. No president is going to fix that, Im sorry.
3) Now here is my question to Obama supporters. So, you agree with everything this man says? You stand by every single one of his policies, every single one of his ideals, everything he says? I mean it...every word? Most people dont agree 100% with everything a candidate says/stands for (partially because the majority of it is BS anyway). I love my DH, but I dont agree with everything he says, thinks, does. I have religion, but I dont believe in every single thing 100%. You put things on a priority list. To me, economy is number 1.
I dont think my rights are being attacked in any way shape or form. Please understand I say the above with utmost respect, but the fact of the matter is I think some get a little over dramatic with this. People need to relax about the abortion card IMO, but vote the way you want. If thats your top priority, than thats your top priority. However, you can not expect that every person out there has to mirror your beliefs or justify why they dont. Im glad that you are in a position that this would be your top priority. However, there are a lot of people right now that are fighting to stay employed right now...that may not be their priority.
Thank you for this. I feel like I could have written this word for word.
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| Posted 10/18/12 9:11 AM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
For me being a woman and getting fair treatment is and always will be a priority. It is not that they WILL ACTUALLY overturn Roe V Wade it is that they WANT TO.
It is the lack of respect, the fact that they feel they can tell women what to do. It is that at the core I feel they speak of me like I am a second class citzen, in my estimation Romney sees women as adornments and not equals. When he says 'women who HAVE to work' it makes my blood boil, bc OF COURSE no woman would WANT to work, have a career, experience the success and gratificiation that this can bring, no they do it bc they NEED to bc of their life circumstances.
All things being equal with politics it goes against every fiber of my being and takes great effot to even be respectful and be civil to a person with these feelings much less vote for them.
Message edited 10/18/2012 9:22:17 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/12 9:20 AM |
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Gdesq
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 1314 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LeeCR7
Sorry this is so long. I tend to think in depth about important decisions, and I thought I would share my thinking. Feel free to skim or skip!
I am an Independent. I have voted for both main parties as well as for a 3rd party. I also respect other people's opinions and never try to change other's minds about politics. But I think this is a worthy discussion, so I will add my thoughts.
I think there is absolutely an inherent contradiction in voting for a party that considers your group (whether gender, religion, sexual orientation or race) as less deserving of rights than other groups. Regardless of your feelings about abortion, the ways the Republicans are trying to attack it and other women's rights are, frankly, insane: unnecessary medical procedures, restricting access to Planned Parenthood, punishing female lawmakers for using the word vagina, voting against a domestic violence protection bill, not signing a fair pay act, etc. Taken singularly, these are worrying enough; taken together, they are horrifying. It speaks to a general mentality in the Republican party.
I also agree with previous posters that the marriage of religion and politics in many of these policies is dangerous. I love how Joe Biden handled the abortion question in his debate; he has his religious beliefs but they will not be forced on others. Ryan basically said the opposite; he said he cannot separate his political life from his religious one. I think this is a common theme for Republican lawmakers.
I actually agree that Romney is more moderate than he is portrayed; however, he, like all politicians, is going to be concentrating on getting a second term, so he will want to satisfy his base. Apparently, his base wants these measures against women. I have no doubt that Romney will allow or even push for some of them, including endangering Roe v Wade. The fact that the next president will nominate new judges to the Supreme (which right now has more conservatives than moderates or liberals) makes the stakes especially high.
I have no illusions that Democrat lawmakers are pro-women; however, for the sake of politics, they are trying to seem like they are. So even if their motives aren't entirely honest, they, at least, are not trying to attack and subjugate an entire group of people. It is unlikely that they will work against women, if only to look like they care about women. In this case, motives don't matter as much as results.
Finally, I completely understand those who want to make the economy their top issue. Before the 2008 election, I said to my husband that whoever won would be a one-term president because there was no way they could turn around an economic disaster in 4 years. So I am pleasantly surprised that Obama has a 50/50 chance at winning. If you disagree with Obama's economic policies, then absolutely don't vote for him. However, if you just don't think it is happening fast enough, I would consider the fact that we were nearly in a depression, and Obama not only helped pull us out of it, but is actually improving the economy. My husband and I both lost our jobs, as well as many other friends and family, but we are all employed now. I would just urge people to consider if anyone could have turned the economy around faster. I, personally, don't think so; I am impressed that we are doing as well as we are (the jobs report, the housing market improving, prices except for gas stabilizing, etc).
So, although I voted for McCain in 2008 (a real American hero and moderate), Obama has my vote this year (we're in PA, a swing state). I will not vote for a party or person who continually disrespects not only women, but other minorities. For the first time, I will probably vote for all Democrats because I am so disgusted by the Republican Party. As someone else said, they are on the wrong side of history. Perhaps if we, as women, harness our collective power, we can send a message that we will not stand for this anymore. We can change things, at least superficially. It is at least worth trying.
Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/opinion/sunday/the-attack-on-women-is-real.html?_r=0
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75892.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/new_home_construction_rises_as.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-destler/americas-improving-economy_b_1965190.html
Thank you for this! I think a lot of women don't realize how much of an impact a new appointment to the Supreme Court will actually make. This involves issues beyond Roe v. Wade. Just take, for example, Justice Scalia's position that the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment does not protect against discrimination on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. He basically says that protections for such discrimination is left to the legistlature. The woman's issue deals with so much more than abortion and contraceptives.
ETA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/scalia-women-discrimination-constitution_n_803813.html
Message edited 10/18/2012 9:36:30 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/12 9:34 AM |
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DSLaff
Team One of Each
Member since 10/09 2150 total posts
Name:
Dana
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LeeCR7
Sorry this is so long. I tend to think in depth about important decisions, and I thought I would share my thinking. Feel free to skim or skip!
I am an Independent. I have voted for both main parties as well as for a 3rd party. I also respect other people's opinions and never try to change other's minds about politics. But I think this is a worthy discussion, so I will add my thoughts.
I think there is absolutely an inherent contradiction in voting for a party that considers your group (whether gender, religion, sexual orientation or race) as less deserving of rights than other groups. Regardless of your feelings about abortion, the ways the Republicans are trying to attack it and other women's rights are, frankly, insane: unnecessary medical procedures, restricting access to Planned Parenthood, punishing female lawmakers for using the word vagina, voting against a domestic violence protection bill, not signing a fair pay act, etc. Taken singularly, these are worrying enough; taken together, they are horrifying. It speaks to a general mentality in the Republican party.
I also agree with previous posters that the marriage of religion and politics in many of these policies is dangerous. I love how Joe Biden handled the abortion question in his debate; he has his religious beliefs but they will not be forced on others. Ryan basically said the opposite; he said he cannot separate his political life from his religious one. I think this is a common theme for Republican lawmakers.
I actually agree that Romney is more moderate than he is portrayed; however, he, like all politicians, is going to be concentrating on getting a second term, so he will want to satisfy his base. Apparently, his base wants these measures against women. I have no doubt that Romney will allow or even push for some of them, including endangering Roe v Wade. The fact that the next president will nominate new judges to the Supreme (which right now has more conservatives than moderates or liberals) makes the stakes especially high.
I have no illusions that Democrat lawmakers are pro-women; however, for the sake of politics, they are trying to seem like they are. So even if their motives aren't entirely honest, they, at least, are not trying to attack and subjugate an entire group of people. It is unlikely that they will work against women, if only to look like they care about women. In this case, motives don't matter as much as results.
Finally, I completely understand those who want to make the economy their top issue. Before the 2008 election, I said to my husband that whoever won would be a one-term president because there was no way they could turn around an economic disaster in 4 years. So I am pleasantly surprised that Obama has a 50/50 chance at winning. If you disagree with Obama's economic policies, then absolutely don't vote for him. However, if you just don't think it is happening fast enough, I would consider the fact that we were nearly in a depression, and Obama not only helped pull us out of it, but is actually improving the economy. My husband and I both lost our jobs, as well as many other friends and family, but we are all employed now. I would just urge people to consider if anyone could have turned the economy around faster. I, personally, don't think so; I am impressed that we are doing as well as we are (the jobs report, the housing market improving, prices except for gas stabilizing, etc).
So, although I voted for McCain in 2008 (a real American hero and moderate), Obama has my vote this year (we're in PA, a swing state). I will not vote for a party or person who continually disrespects not only women, but other minorities. For the first time, I will probably vote for all Democrats because I am so disgusted by the Republican Party. As someone else said, they are on the wrong side of history. Perhaps if we, as women, harness our collective power, we can send a message that we will not stand for this anymore. We can change things, at least superficially. It is at least worth trying.
Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/opinion/sunday/the-attack-on-women-is-real.html?_r=0
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75892.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/new_home_construction_rises_as.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-destler/americas-improving-economy_b_1965190.html
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS! I am in finance and see the economy up front all day long... its scary.. i dont like that people are living on unemployment instead of getting jobs, or living on food stamps when they parade thier new gucci bag on facebook by thier iphone upload... i m scared of OBAMACARE taking away incentive for drs to stay ahead of the curve... and continue to be inovative.... i am scared that he considers me RICH when clearly I am not in my small 2 bedroom coop in queens,,, Yet I am being taxed unfairly to the point i am making less than some of my friends that make considerably less than I do. BUt like you said how can i vote for someone who goes out of thier way to let thier religious values affect thier political dessions when WE WERE FOUNDED ON SPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE,,, I am truley confused
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| Posted 10/18/12 9:50 AM |
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mrsboss
my little love
Member since 12/09 5054 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
LittleBlueBug said it perfectly..
My main priority is the economy and as a small business owner, we simply cannot have 4 more years like this. My focus and concern for my family is to stay financially sound - not RvW, abortion etc. I'm not saying those issues are not important, they are simply not my focus. I also do not agree with Obamacare and Obama's immigration reform in the least and That's a whole other topic that I cannot get into right now, typing on my phone.
Message edited 10/18/2012 10:01:30 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/12 9:54 AM |
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Paramount
Sweet!
Member since 7/12 4289 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by LeeCR7
By far the best articulated argument I have EVERY read on ANY election.
Well said and THANK you.
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| Posted 10/18/12 10:06 AM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by Paramount
Posted by LeeCR7
By far the best articulated argument I have EVERY read on ANY election.
Well said and THANK you.
I agree. GREAT post!
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| Posted 10/18/12 10:09 AM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by Paramount
Posted by LeeCR7
By far the best articulated argument I have EVERY read on ANY election.
Well said and THANK you.
I agree. GREAT post!
I also agree...
Perfectly said!!! Thank you!!!
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| Posted 10/18/12 10:15 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Posted by BriBri2u
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by Paramount
Posted by LeeCR7
By far the best articulated argument I have EVERY read on ANY election.
Well said and THANK you.
I agree. GREAT post!
I also agree...
Perfectly said!!! Thank you!!!
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| Posted 10/18/12 10:16 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: I really need to ask this question about Romney's politics...
Littlebluebug you asked a question of Obama supporters that I will answer,
No, I do not agree with 100% of Obama's ideas or policies. I don't need to. and you don't need to believe in all of Romneys and I respect that.
but the women's issue is a singular thing unlike anything in "male" politics b/c they are two wholly opposite ideas.
it's like 10 bald eagles sitting in a room and 4 of them say they don't think voting for the candidate pressing to taking them off the endaged species list so they can be hunted again is a big deal b/c it probably won't affect them. and the other eagles look around the room and say, uh, ok, maybe, but it might affect ME or my little eagle babies.
also, I don't think abortion is a "card". in fact, that is the whole point, it shouldn't be. if Roe v. Wade had proper protection and not the whilly nilly designs of people sititng on a bench or potentially sititng on a bench, it would be a non issue.
but until it is, it will always be a polarizing topic.
I do want to point out though that abortion is not the only issue-it's the general feeling about women that the republican party (or some parts of it-sadly the most vocal parts of it) seem to have, foster, and advocate.
and I am sure people think I am this liberal person, but I have voted republican before and I would be willing to do it again if one would come around that would eschew the religious (illegal) ideology that pervades the party at a national level. I cannot get down with that at all. It is wrong in every way.
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| Posted 10/18/12 10:25 AM |
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