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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4430 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Holding Child Back
I beleive by law you have to have your child in school by 6 years old. I really beleive that cut offs should be the start of school or mid summer, not Oct, Nov or December. This way the entire grade will be the same age or turning the same age within the same school calendar year. In the beginning the maturity is so different in the kids and as they get older I think it's a problem too. They are too young to do drivers ed with their friends, can't get a learners permit until almost a year later and then some will be starting college at 17 which I think is way to young. They aren't even technically adults and they are being set away to live on their own.
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Posted 12/31/12 1:15 PM  |
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phoenix913
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3034 total posts
Name:
V
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Re: Holding Child Back
Yes, I think your child has to be in school by 6 by law.
I agree, the cutoffs should be Sept 1 so that everyone is the same age starting the year unless they've redshirted. And redshirting should be made illegal unless there's been an evaluation by a qualified professional that's documented and sent to the school.
But any way you slice some kids are going to be nearly a year older or younger than their classmates. Even with a Sept 1 cutoff, the kid with the Aug 30 bday would turn 5 a few days before school. And the kid with the Sep 2 bday would turn 6 right after.
I like the idea of classes grouped by bday. At least in K-2.
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| Posted 12/31/12 1:44 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
Yes part of my reasoning is that she has an August birthday. However I also know the expectations of the kindergarten first and second grade curriculum. It is a lot and I feel like giving her one extra year would help her both academically and socially in school In the long run. Also teachers do not evaluate the students based on comparing them to their peers. There are strict evaluations we need to use in the classroom. I don't grade a five or six or seven-year-old any differently. If you feel your child is ready for kindergarten I say go for it. All children are different and you as their mothers know them best. And for the record I do feel that it is absolutely fair to have a six-year-old enter kindergarten.
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
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| Posted 12/31/12 4:27 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
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| Posted 12/31/12 5:44 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4430 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
But that is the issue..that child is not 14 months older than most of the kids....for most he/she is only a few months older. My DD was 4 entering K and it is too young. She was immature and very tiny. She turned 5 in October and most of the kids in her class were at least 9 to 12 months older than she was. If I had the option to put her in pre-k for another year I would have but I could not due to IEP issues. This year she was "retained" and turned 6 in October and she is now more in line with the peer level than she was last year. I really think there is no right answer to this and you just need to do what is right for your child.
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| Posted 12/31/12 5:55 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
But that is the issue..that child is not 14 months older than most of the kids....for most he/she is only a few months older. My DD was 4 entering K and it is too young. She was immature and very tiny. She turned 5 in October and most of the kids in her class were at least 9 to 12 months older than she was. If I had the option to put her in pre-k for another year I would have but I could not due to IEP issues. This year she was "retained" and turned 6 in October and she is now more in line with the peer level than she was last year. I really think there is no right answer to this and you just need to do what is right for your child.
Sorry but a child who makes the cut-off by 3-4 MONTHS and is held back is a lot more than a "few months older" than most children. Yes, if your child is born November 29 and you hold them back, the difference is fairly immaterial. That is not the case here.
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| Posted 12/31/12 6:18 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
What does fairness have anything to do with this topic? No one is competing with another student. It's the curriculum and maturity of each child. That is why every parent can choose what is best for their own child.
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| Posted 12/31/12 6:29 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
What does fairness have anything to do with this topic? No one is competing with another student. It's the curriculum and maturity of each child. That is why every parent can choose what is best for their own child.
Give me a break - of course they are comparing/competing. Does your school not have reading groups, math groups, etc? What about sports? Why should my child be judged against peers that are 14 months older than them just because I followed the rules?
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| Posted 12/31/12 6:39 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
Yes, sports I can definitely understand. However, there will ALWAYS be differentiated instruction, no matter what age, what grade, etc.. However, in the end, all of the students are evaluated on a grading scale. If a benchmark score for a first grader is to read 50 words per minute, guess what? That is across the board for all of first graders, perhaps nation wide. I had a first grader, who just turned 5 over the summer. Guess what, he was my best reader in all my years teaching. However, he cried when he had to write stories. He cried when the other kids wouldn't play with him. He was always a follower throughout the year, instead of being more independent. I'm not saying a child like that should have not started kindergarten when he did. What I am saying is that all children are different. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's not a competition in the classroom. I'm not going to give Johnny a better grade because he's six and give Lucy a lower grade because she's five. That is not what our education system is about. Above all, every parent knows their own child. I'm saying, if you're on the fence and thinking that another year may be worth waiting, then I say by all means, wait. If your child is making great strides, academically or socially, there is no reason to hold back. There will always be reading groups and math groups. That's the way it has to be no matter what.
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| Posted 12/31/12 7:44 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
What does fairness have anything to do with this topic? No one is competing with another student. It's the curriculum and maturity of each child. That is why every parent can choose what is best for their own child.
If there is no "comparing" then there wouldn't be a problem. You are saying your child is immature socially or academically. Immature based on what?? You are obviously comparing your child to other children or other expectations. I understand that every child can do what is best for your child but by red shirting you are placing MY child at a disadvantage when I don't redshirt. And you are nuts to think that teachers don't compare children. The entire new evaluation standards for teachers are based on comparing children ( standardized testing is just a way of comparing a child with other children across the state/country)
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| Posted 12/31/12 9:16 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
Yes, sports I can definitely understand. However, there will ALWAYS be differentiated instruction, no matter what age, what grade, etc.. However, in the end, all of the students are evaluated on a grading scale. If a benchmark score for a first grader is to read 50 words per minute, guess what? That is across the board for all of first graders, perhaps nation wide. I had a first grader, who just turned 5 over the summer. Guess what, he was my best reader in all my years teaching. However, he cried when he had to write stories. He cried when the other kids wouldn't play with him. He was always a follower throughout the year, instead of being more independent. I'm not saying a child like that should have not started kindergarten when he did. What I am saying is that all children are different. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's not a competition in the classroom. I'm not going to give Johnny a better grade because he's six and give Lucy a lower grade because she's five. That is not what our education system is about. Above all, every parent knows their own child. I'm saying, if you're on the fence and thinking that another year may be worth waiting, then I say by all means, wait. If your child is making great strides, academically or socially, there is no reason to hold back. There will always be reading groups and math groups. That's the way it has to be no matter what.
And what I am saying that when your child and my child enter k together they are going to be 13 months apart. 13 months is a HUGE difference. And for my friends son who turns 5 dec 1 that is a 16 month difference. And while there are some kids that may be 12 months older, when does the red shirting end? Your daughter is an August baby. What abouth all the months before. How about as a parent if you see your child is not socially ready being peoactive about it and placing the child in play groups or even social skills training before k. I don't know. I just think its ridiculous personally! Where does it end???
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| Posted 12/31/12 9:23 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
As a mom first and as an educator second, I firmly believe that I am making the right decision. My children's preschool had a very interesting seminar on this very subject. After hearing what they had to say, as well as research presented, I know I will have no regrets. I am sorry that you feel your child may have a disadvantage in his school years because of age gaps in the classroom. Maybe something will or should be done about it. However I feel comfortable sending my daughter when she has just turned six. I will probably be doing the same for my son because has a September birthday. Happy New Year! This will be my last post for 2012.
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| Posted 12/31/12 10:14 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
As a mom first and as an educator second, I firmly believe that I am making the right decision. My children's preschool had a very interesting seminar on this very subject. After hearing what they had to say, as well as research presented, I know I will have no regrets. I am sorry that you feel your child may have a disadvantage in his school years because of age gaps in the classroom. Maybe something will or should be done about it. However I feel comfortable sending my daughter when she has just turned six. I will probably be doing the same for my son because has a September birthday. Happy New Year! This will be my last post for 2012.
Of course your preschool presented redshirting as a wonderful thing - is that not another year of tuition $$$$ for them?? I would have to question the inherent bias in the research they presented.
I would like to see the cut-off changed to September 1st - I do think with a more level playing field people would be less likely to hold their children back. Only time will tell.
Happy New Year to you too!
Message edited 12/31/2012 10:27:47 PM.
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| Posted 12/31/12 10:27 PM |
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
Yes, sports I can definitely understand. However, there will ALWAYS be differentiated instruction, no matter what age, what grade, etc.. However, in the end, all of the students are evaluated on a grading scale. If a benchmark score for a first grader is to read 50 words per minute, guess what? That is across the board for all of first graders, perhaps nation wide. I had a first grader, who just turned 5 over the summer. Guess what, he was my best reader in all my years teaching. However, he cried when he had to write stories. He cried when the other kids wouldn't play with him. He was always a follower throughout the year, instead of being more independent. I'm not saying a child like that should have not started kindergarten when he did. What I am saying is that all children are different. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's not a competition in the classroom. I'm not going to give Johnny a better grade because he's six and give Lucy a lower grade because she's five. That is not what our education system is about. Above all, every parent knows their own child. I'm saying, if you're on the fence and thinking that another year may be worth waiting, then I say by all means, wait. If your child is making great strides, academically or socially, there is no reason to hold back. There will always be reading groups and math groups. That's the way it has to be no matter what.
And what I am saying that when your child and my child enter k together they are going to be 13 months apart. 13 months is a HUGE difference. And for my friends son who turns 5 dec 1 that is a 16 month difference. And while there are some kids that may be 12 months older, when does the red shirting end? Your daughter is an August baby. What abouth all the months before. How about as a parent if you see your child is not socially ready being peoactive about it and placing the child in play groups or even social skills training before k. I don't know. I just think its ridiculous personally! Where does it end???
That is a huge issue. DS is one of the youngest and smallest in his class. He has to sit in the front or he doesn't see over the other boys. For now the bigger kids are sort of protective of him but they are all a lot stronger, they play rougher and their interests are different. I hope that the way he interacts with them continues b/c they are good kids but he is with kids who are red shirted and are much older. For now I am enrolling him in sports leagues that play by age and not grade. Holding him back in K made no sense b/c I only would have done it to keep him with kids his age, yet the kids his age are supposed to be there! I just don't want him to be the youngest and smallest everywhere so he's usually somewhere in the middle in the other places where I have him do activities.
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| Posted 1/1/13 1:41 AM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4430 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Holding Child Back
I wish I could see the demographics of the classes. Everyone is thinking that there are so many "red shirted" children in their class but I hardly think that is the truth. I would venture to bet there are no more than maybe 3 or so kids that are and in a class of 18 - 20 that really does not cause to much of an issue. Alot of these kids that people think are so much stronger and bigger might be Jan/Feb birthdays. I know in DD's class she is one of two that were held back last year and both of them have October birthdays. There are no kids in her class with birthdays earlier.
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| Posted 1/1/13 8:41 AM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I am a first grade teacher and I have definitely seen a difference between a young first grader and that of an older one. In my district we only have a half day 3 hour kindergarten program. Not much time to fill in a jam packed curriculum. You see it mostly in reading. yes, there are many services. (Small group, extra instruction, pull out programs). however, I feel that there can come a time where it is overload. Some classmates can see their peers progressing and they know they are behind, which can be very frustrating for them. the majority of my retentions have had maturity as a factor. I have a daughter who has an August birthday. I didn't even think twice about holding her back for one more year. As someone said previously, I will never regret that extra year, but I would if she struggled throughout school. Just to add, they usually won't struggle in kindergarten. I feel that in first and second grade, it can catch up. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have seen many cases firsthand. I also think the curriculum has so much content to cover, especially in the lower grades.
So then are you saying that your daughter back because she was an August birthday? So of course when you compare your kindergarten child who will be 6 going into k to my child who is turning 5 in sept of k there will be a huge maturity gap. It doesn't seem right to have a 6 year old in a kindergarten class. If that was the case maybe k shouldn't be started until 6. Or schools should revamp their programs and make them age leveled classes. I just don't think it is fair in k to then compare my child who is starting school when he is supposed to to another child who is over a full year older. Since preschool an even k is not mandatory, social or academic maturity shouldn't even be a factor.
My DD is a late-October b-day and went as planned. In this case, there would be a child 14 months older in her class. How is that fair???
And how is a child that is 14 months older than her peers not bored out of her mind?
What does fairness have anything to do with this topic? No one is competing with another student. It's the curriculum and maturity of each child. That is why every parent can choose what is best for their own child.
Sorry but, in my school district you couldn't be further from the reality of the situation. EVERYONE is competing - COMPETITION is the REASON why these parents are holding back their kids! It's ridiculous.
And what does fairness have to do with it - I will tell you - I look at my own DS there are kids 1.5 yrs older than him in his class. he is one of the smartest ones so I wouldn't dream of holding him back as he is already not being challenged at all academically. BUT, I see the unfairness EVERYWHERE - on the soccer field where the kids are a foot taller than him and wider than him (when he used to be the tallest in his pre-k class by far) - these kids are older and more aggressive and violent, and again when he keeps asking me why all the kids in his class have half their teeth missing and seeing the tooth fairy come, are playing the guitar, are turning six etc. When I see the attitude and personality on these kids - the naivete of the K'r has been lost. When it comes to fine motor and gross motor skills I don't care how advanced your child is they SHOULD NOT have to be with kids 1.5 yrs older than them - it is not a fair comparison for a child's confidence or self esteem. What this is doing is changing the landscape of the K classroom - it changes the expectations of the teachers and the kids. Now the average kindergarter is 6 or 6.5 instead of 5.5. The skill level expected is different. The attention span different. I remember reading a NY Times article that was posted on here a few years back about how many children were being misdiagnosed with ADD because they were the youngest in the class and were being compared with children over a year older than them.
And, the truth is, now this cuts both ways. Because I have freinds that have children that are late november bdays and are already reading and excelling academically but, their parents feel they have no choice but to hold them back because of the fact that they will be SO much younger than their peers.
It's out of control how parents are manipulating the system. It needs to stop. If there is going to be a cut-off it needs to be enforced. It's one thing if you can show CAUSE but, parents should not be able to manipulate the system merely to try to gain a competitive edge. Which, I don't think it even does in the long run AT ALL. Maybe it helps them in the short run because they are bigger and their attention spans are longer but, in the long run - the smart kids will be the smart kids. And, if they are a smart kid they are suffering from not being challenged and not being allowed to thrive at their own pace. They are also missing out on growing mentally at a time when their brain is growing the fastest. Then, there will be the stigma of then being the oldest in the class - the biggest and, for the girls the most developed. I myself was a end of year birthday and even back in the day there was some pressure to hold back (nothing like today). I am SO glad my mother didn't hold me back - I was always at the top of my class in school, college, grad school - always a year ahead in classes and so glad to be younger when I finally gradutaed from grad school. So in the end, I don't believe my DS and others like him will be the ones at a disservice but, in the present time I believe they are and, I feel sorry for these kids whose parents are holding them back for their own competitive motives. And, I feel sorry for the parents that feel they are forced to hold their child back so they are not in a classroom with kids 1.5 yrs older than them!
Message edited 1/1/2013 6:58:00 PM.
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| Posted 1/1/13 5:45 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Holding Child Back
double post sorry
Message edited 1/1/2013 5:51:43 PM.
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| Posted 1/1/13 5:47 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
I will be sure to compare all of my students tomorrow when I go back to school. I will have all of my older ones sit in the back. I will keep in mind not to have any rough and tumble games where kids might be violent. And I will definitely make sure that I feel sorry for all of my older students because their parents did such a disservice to them for doing what they thought was best for their child. It's parents like you who I wish would change their one dimensional way of thinking in the year 2013. You don't know the reason as to why parents choose when they start their child in school. And by the way, it's not your job either. Now I have to go and sulk over the fact that my daughter is still in pre k. Such a horrible mommy decision , right?
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| Posted 1/1/13 6:31 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
I will be sure to compare all of my students tomorrow when I go back to school. I will have all of my older ones sit in the back. I will keep in mind not to have any rough and tumble games where kids might be violent. And I will definitely make sure that I feel sorry for all of my older students because their parents did such a disservice to them for doing what they thought was best for their child. It's parents like you who I wish would change their one dimensional way of thinking in the year 2013. You don't know the reason as to why parents choose when they start their child in school. And by the way, it's not your job either. Now I have to go and sulk over the fact that my daughter is still in pre k. Such a horrible mommy decision , right?
Wow...I think this was a little extreme. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. You kept YOUR child back because of your own reasons and we are stating reasons why it may effect OUR children. You stated your experience as a teacher AND a parent...and we stated OURS! It's amazing that you made a comment about one dimensional ways of thinking when you are doing the same exact thing. Pot...please meet the kettle!
And since you spoke about the "research" your pre-k presented, why don't you read this, with journal articles. I always feel its best to do my own "research" rather than that of someone who is potentially biased. http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Academic_Young/
Message edited 1/1/2013 7:21:50 PM.
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| Posted 1/1/13 7:16 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I will be sure to compare all of my students tomorrow when I go back to school. I will have all of my older ones sit in the back. I will keep in mind not to have any rough and tumble games where kids might be violent. And I will definitely make sure that I feel sorry for all of my older students because their parents did such a disservice to them for doing what they thought was best for their child. It's parents like you who I wish would change their one dimensional way of thinking in the year 2013. You don't know the reason as to why parents choose when they start their child in school. And by the way, it's not your job either. Now I have to go and sulk over the fact that my daughter is still in pre k. Such a horrible mommy decision , right?
Wow...I think this was a little extreme. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. You kept YOUR child back because of your own reasons and we are stating reasons why it may effect OUR children. You stated your experience as a teacher AND a parent...and we stated OURS! It's amazing that you made a comment about one dimensional ways of thinking when you are doing the same exact thing. Pot...please meet the kettle!
And since you spoke about the "research" your pre-k presented, why don't you read this, with journal articles. I always feel its best to do my own "research" rather than that of someone who is potentially biased. http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Academic_Young/
That's quite okay, I don't know you Jacksmommy, that's why I'd rather not waste my time opening a link you researched on. I am also getting the feeling that you may be "potentially biased". Clearly, we can agree to disagree. I personally was quoting somebody who was basically bashing MY choice. I don't disagree with anyone sending their child to kindergarten on time. I think it's actually the right thing to do for most children. HOWEVER, I can completely UNDERSTAND those who have summer birthdays and realize why they made the choice they did. I am not bashing anyone here. I was simply taking pieces from someone's comment to me, and making them my own for my agenda tomorrow. One question for you, can you understand why some parents wait that extra year or no? I'm not asking if you think it's right or not, just if you understand. I'm just confused as to why it's difficult for you to understand the rationale behind this. Obviously, it's allowed. So, what harm could there really be? My child is not going to make your child struggle.
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| Posted 1/1/13 7:49 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
So, what harm could there really be? My child is not going to make your child struggle.
I think at this point we all just need to agree to disagree because this is getting no where.
We have respectfully explained to you while we feel it is detrimental to the children who are properly placed, but clearly you are not understanding as you are asking once again what the harm is 
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| Posted 1/1/13 7:57 PM |
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jaclyn78
LIF Adolescent
Member since 11/06 635 total posts
Name:
Jaclyn
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by Karen
Posted by jaclyn78
So, what harm could there really be? My child is not going to make your child struggle.
I think at this point we all just need to agree to disagree because this is getting no where.
We have respectfully explained to you while we feel it is detrimental to the children who are properly placed, but clearly you are not understanding as you are asking once again what the harm is
I'm not asking if you think it is detrimental. If you look at my post again, my question is "Can you understand why some parents choose to wait that extra year?" That's all. I'm not asking about why it's detrimental. That's not my concern anyway Now, for banging the head.
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| Posted 1/1/13 8:02 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Holding Child Back
Posted by jaclyn78
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by jaclyn78
I will be sure to compare all of my students tomorrow when I go back to school. I will have all of my older ones sit in the back. I will keep in mind not to have any rough and tumble games where kids might be violent. And I will definitely make sure that I feel sorry for all of my older students because their parents did such a disservice to them for doing what they thought was best for their child. It's parents like you who I wish would change their one dimensional way of thinking in the year 2013. You don't know the reason as to why parents choose when they start their child in school. And by the way, it's not your job either. Now I have to go and sulk over the fact that my daughter is still in pre k. Such a horrible mommy decision , right?
Wow...I think this was a little extreme. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. You kept YOUR child back because of your own reasons and we are stating reasons why it may effect OUR children. You stated your experience as a teacher AND a parent...and we stated OURS! It's amazing that you made a comment about one dimensional ways of thinking when you are doing the same exact thing. Pot...please meet the kettle!
And since you spoke about the "research" your pre-k presented, why don't you read this, with journal articles. I always feel its best to do my own "research" rather than that of someone who is potentially biased. http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Academic_Young/
That's quite okay, I don't know you Jacksmommy, that's why I'd rather not waste my time opening a link you researched on. I am also getting the feeling that you may be "potentially biased". Clearly, we can agree to disagree. I personally was quoting somebody who was basically bashing MY choice. I don't disagree with anyone sending their child to kindergarten on time. I think it's actually the right thing to do for most children. HOWEVER, I can completely UNDERSTAND those who have summer birthdays and realize why they made the choice they did. I am not bashing anyone here. I was simply taking pieces from someone's comment to me, and making them my own for my agenda tomorrow. One question for you, can you understand why some parents wait that extra year or no? I'm not asking if you think it's right or not, just if you understand. I'm just confused as to why it's difficult for you to understand the rationale behind this. Obviously, it's allowed. So, what harm could there really be? My child is not going to make your child struggle.
I had no idea who you were referring to. You never quoted. And No, I cannot understand why parents wait an extra year...as I have already explained. I don't know why I would be personally biased either, as your decision, probably has no impact on me. And again, I explained what I felt the "harm" (although I never used that word) would be. I will agree to disagree.
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| Posted 1/1/13 8:03 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Holding Child Back
Huh? You just asked what the harm is? Is not the proper response to that showing how it is detrimental?
And sorry, holding back a child born 3-4 months BEFORE the cut-off with no significant issues simply because you can is not something I can understand. Especially when the only source of research you present is how blown away you were by a pre-school presentation, yet are unwilling to review research presented by a peer-reviewed education journal. Talk about one way of thinking.
As I said, let's just agree to disagree.
Message edited 1/1/2013 8:10:45 PM.
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| Posted 1/1/13 8:07 PM |
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Annie91606
Brotherly love
Member since 12/07 1816 total posts
Name:
Anne
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Re: Holding Child Back
This is a peeve of mine. I live in VA and our cut off for entering kindergarten is Sept. 30th. It appears that most parents of boys hold their kids back if they are born in June or later. The reasons I hear:
-he's just not ready (whatever that means)
-dh wants him bigger for sports 
-I want him home with me one more year (so it is for the parents needs, not the child)
-his preschool recommended that we hold him back and do their j/k program ( they want another year of your tuition money, and coincidentally, their 5 day j/k is the most expensive!)
My son turns 5 in January, he will do kindergarten next Fall. I know he will be with a bunch of older kids, but at least they will be half a year older. My two year old, born April, will likely be in a grade with kids nearly a year older!
The reasons I disagree with red shirting:
-if your child is is immature, how will being in class with a bunch of kids younger than him motivate him to grow up?
-do you want your kid to be self-conscious in middle school because they are hitting puberty earlier?
- I believe in challenging my children to help them learn and grow. I don't want to be so afraid of them failing that I set the bar lower to make things easier for them. Many parents do nowadays, and we have a generation of kids who are much more dependent than we were.
- the advantage they have will fade in elementary school anyways. In regards to sports, if your kid is athletic , they will do fine in sports. If not, a year won't matter.
- you are setting them out to the world losing a year of earning potential. I was born in the late summer. When I turned 19, I had a year of college completed and was working at a bank with a great internship. A red shirted kid born in June would just be graduating high school when they turn 19.
Of course, a child with a developmental delay is a different situation. But holding back for the reasons I stated above is wrong , IMHO.
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| Posted 1/2/13 9:27 AM |
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