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spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by LInative
Wow I could not agree with you more. If you're happy w/where you are in life, don't you already "have it all"??
i don't think being happy means having it all, nor do i think that having it all means being happy.
I'm extremely happy with my life and consider myself both lucky and blessed, but, at the same time, i don't have a house, i'm not working in my field yet, we don't have any kids yet... so while i'm happy with the way my life is right now, i wouldn't say that i 'had it all' 
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Posted 1/24/07 10:13 AM  |
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Bxgell2
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Beth
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Woodsy
I am actually writing an article on the issue of working lawyers. I do think that women can "have it all" (even lawyers). In fact, I think I come pretty close to having it all as I have a job that I love and a wonderful family.
It has a lot to do with your employer. When my DS was born, I was working as a Litigator at one of the largest law firms in the world. I was miserable and did not work with any woman partners who (in my view) successfully managed both. I hated the commute, I hated the work and I hated the attitude that the firm had toward working mothers.
About a month after returning from maternity leave, I jumped ship to a smaller firm 2 miles from my home in NJ. It was the best thing I could have done. They even matched my NY salary, which amounted to a raise since I no longer had to deal with commuting costs or NYC tax.
This firm is really amazing. They do not expect associates to bill 2200 hours to make partner. They stress the importance of quality work--not the quantity of work. They are very pro family, advocate flex time and permit P/T attorneys to become partner. I am very confident that I have the opportunity to become partner here.
So, I think whether you can "have it all" depends upon your employer's attitude and policies and I don't think that lawyers are automatically excluded from having it all because of the career demands associated with that position. I don't think it is the government's place to dictate legislation on these issues. My law firm realizes that in order to attract and retain quality female associates, their policies must be family friendly. Hopefully, more employers will start to understand this and follow suit.
In my view, in order to successfully manage career and family and therefore have it all, it is crucial that: (1) you have a employer who is supportive of working women; (2) a husband who helps out; and (3) a great day care provider. I feel blessed to have these 3 elements and think that there is no impediment to me having it all....
Good for you!  I guess I'm a little jaded because I feel like I DID have it all before my firm was taken over - I worked for a very family friendly, laid back, small litigation firm doing exactly the work I enjoyed without the high demands. But, without choice my firm was taken over by a large firm and I've noticed some disturbing changes. I work in Philly, which is just oversaturated with attorneys and law firms, and while I've noticed that most of my friends who work at the smaller firms/local/federal government jobs are able to balance everything quite well, I haven't seen anyone at any of the large firms be able to have it all - be successful and spend time with the kids. I agree, it has a lot to do with the employer - but I find it quite sad that there's such a divide in my own field between the large firms and small firms/government jobs. I would love to see that gap close even further, which, I think IS happening. My good friend who just had her second child works for one of the largest firms in our area - they just came out with a new policy allowing for consideration of partner for part-time employees (usually women). They are expected to work 70% of the normal hours, and based on that may be considered for partner, though it takes longer. So, we're getting closer to that ideal... it will just take some time.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:15 AM |
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Ltdentway99
LIF Adult
Member since 9/06 1752 total posts
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
I think nowadays some men do. As more men get involved in parenting and the work day gets longer and longer, some men are choosing careers that require less hours, so they can have a life too. Many men drop out of law because they want to see their families more.
Posted by Bxgell2
Most men don't have to sit for even a millisecond and think, "hmmm, maybe being an attorney isn't the best career choice for having a family, and perhaps I should sacrifice partner so I can spend more time at home?"
Message edited 1/24/2007 10:17:02 AM.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:16 AM |
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Woodsy
LIF Infant
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Message edited 1/14/2008 11:07:04 PM.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:19 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by neenie
Posted by LInative
Wow I could not agree with you more. If you're happy w/where you are in life, don't you already "have it all"??
i don't think being happy means having it all, nor do i think that having it all means being happy.
I'm extremely happy with my life and consider myself both lucky and blessed, but, at the same time, i don't have a house, i'm not working in my field yet, we don't have any kids yet... so while i'm happy with the way my life is right now, i wouldn't say that i 'had it all'
why can't you just be happy where you are right now- you have it all for now- what if the definition of "all" changed at different points in your life?
your "all" of today and your "all" of tomorrow change...
I don't know- by constantly worrying about this "having it all" thing- we are so negatives to ourselves- we will NEVER measure up to it- and it will just force us to be negative and unsatisfied with our lives.
I think we all should just be happy with where we are and try to live in the moment- not putting "good" or "bad" connotations on everything..
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:33 AM |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
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me
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by prncssrachel
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by prncssrachel
Posted by mommy2bellabean
Posted by WhatNow
However, if you are fortunate enough to simply love what you do for a living, without trying to climb up too high up the corporate ladder where you would have to sacrifice your family in order to stay up where you are, than it is very doable.
See, I would like to continue advancing in my industry...right up to the top.
And I believe I can do both...
I have to agree that you can absolutely do both. And I think that the more women who believe that and still make time for their family, then the more likely that we can change what the perception of "having it all" is. We are not victims of society, and we do how the power to overcome what is "typical" and expected of us as working moms. If someone doesn't make it to the top of their career, I don't think they should blame having children, I think they should blame themselves for not figuring out a way to make both work. I honestly believe that where there's a will, there's a way. And I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be at the top of your career AND a mother. You CAN have both. I know women who do and are very satisfied and happy.
I find this a little disturbing... I don't blame my daughter for not being able to "make it to the top" in my career - I blame the laws in this country and the field in which I work. So you're telling me I should "blame myself" for not figuring out a way to make both work? Ok, then tell me, in a field where the only feasible way to make partner and make it to the top of my field is to bill 2200 hours a year, work through the night and work weekends on a regular basis, how should I make both work? Granted, I"ve DECIDED the hours aren't worth it and that's part of the reason why I applied for a government job - the substance of the work is more interesting, and I can lead a successful career without working insane hours. But, in an ideal world, I SHOULDN'T have had to MAKE that choice. And I truly DO NOT believe that it's my fault for not figuring out a way for it to work at a big firm while being a good mommy.
Sorry I "disturbed" you I guess we all have our different outlooks on things.
I don't think it's any coincidence that even in this day most working women work in fields that are typically less demanding - i.e. a teacher, administrator, professor. QUOTE]
Well, it seems that now you have disturbed ME. I guess we can call it even
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:40 AM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
I think it is VERY hard for women to "have it all" I really think one of the only ways to do this is to have an employer that is willing to do flex time, telecommuting, etc.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:41 AM |
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steph4777
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Stephanie
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Ellebelle1
I think nowadays some men do. As more men get involved in parenting and the work day gets longer and longer, some men are choosing careers that require less hours, so they can have a life too. Many men drop out of law because they want to see their families more.
Posted by Bxgell2
Most men don't have to sit for even a millisecond and think, "hmmm, maybe being an attorney isn't the best career choice for having a family, and perhaps I should sacrifice partner so I can spend more time at home?"
I agree with Ellebelle... DH just graduated from law school and he has made the choice not to pursue working for a big firm. He wants to be home most nights for dinner, be around on Sat to take DS to his gym class or even go to church together as a family on Sundays.
I think many times men don't think like that bc there is so much pressure for them to be able to provide for their family.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:43 AM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by neenie
Posted by LInative
Wow I could not agree with you more. If you're happy w/where you are in life, don't you already "have it all"??
i don't think being happy means having it all, nor do i think that having it all means being happy.
I'm extremely happy with my life and consider myself both lucky and blessed, but, at the same time, i don't have a house, i'm not working in my field yet, we don't have any kids yet... so while i'm happy with the way my life is right now, i wouldn't say that i 'had it all'
why can't you just be happy where you are right now- you have it all for now- what if the definition of "all" changed at different points in your life?
your "all" of today and your "all" of tomorrow change...
I don't know- by constantly worrying about this "having it all" thing- we are so negatives to ourselves- we will NEVER measure up to it- and it will just force us to be negative and unsatisfied with our lives.
I think we all should just be happy with where we are and try to live in the moment- not putting "good" or "bad" connotations on everything..
i AM happy where i am right now... that's what i said above 
but, like i said in that post- i dont think one equals the other.
and, i dont think anyone's beating themselves up over it. We make the decisions we make, and we move on. We prioritize, and choose the things that mean the most to us in life... and we make that work. BUT, i see that as being different than being able to idealisitcally say that "we can have it ALL".
I dont consider this to be constant worrying... just responding to a thread. I dont think, all day, about what i'm missing out on in life I just think it's fantasy to think that you can be perfect at all roles at once. I don't necessarily think that its a woman vs man thing though... just something that faces our society.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:47 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by prncssrachel
Well, it seems that now you have disturbed ME. I guess we can call it even
The difference, however, is that while you are making a judgment about women in particular situations, saying that they only have themselves to blame I'm merely referring to statistics, not making a judgment. Do I agree with it? Hell no. But that's a fact that we live with right now. The fact is women DO occupy much higher percentages in industries that are typically more family friendly, like, being a teacher, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:49 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
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Me
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by neenie
Posted by LInative
Wow I could not agree with you more. If you're happy w/where you are in life, don't you already "have it all"??
i don't think being happy means having it all, nor do i think that having it all means being happy.
I'm extremely happy with my life and consider myself both lucky and blessed, but, at the same time, i don't have a house, i'm not working in my field yet, we don't have any kids yet... so while i'm happy with the way my life is right now, i wouldn't say that i 'had it all'
why can't you just be happy where you are right now- you have it all for now- what if the definition of "all" changed at different points in your life?
your "all" of today and your "all" of tomorrow change...
I don't know- by constantly worrying about this "having it all" thing- we are so negatives to ourselves- we will NEVER measure up to it- and it will just force us to be negative and unsatisfied with our lives.
I think we all should just be happy with where we are and try to live in the moment- not putting "good" or "bad" connotations on everything..
I think it is difficult for people who are really driven in their careers to settle for a position where they are not in charge. I know it is for me. The secretaries where I work have a pretty easy gig from what I have heard...They don't take work home, don't wake up in the middle of the night worried about meetings and outcomes, have very set hours...But that would never be me. I'm not talking about a large house, or expensive car, or money,
because I couldn't care less about that...I don't care if I live in an apt and drive an old car...I'm talking about the internal drive that makes us want to be the best. I want to be really important, and I don't mean in the lives of my children, which is of course important, but I want to make a difference in what I do.
The fact that I am never 100% happy I think is what makes me continuously strive to be better...Continuous improvement for myself. I am happy, but could always be doing more. It's a hard way to live, and I am very hard on myself. I think it just boils down to your personality.
Message edited 1/24/2007 10:50:48 AM.
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| Posted 1/24/07 10:49 AM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
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Kelly
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by nov04libride
The fact that I am never 100% happy I think is what makes me continuously strive to be better...Continuous improvement for myself. I am happy, but could always be doing more. It's a hard way to live, and I am very hard on myself. I think it just boils down to your personality.
I agree with this. I am in the totally wrong area of my industry to be married and have children. Many people put this off for years to get themselves to a position where they feel "up there" enough to rely on assistants, PA's, and others to maintain. But I love it and it is a huge part of who I am. But I always strive for more...and I will not "wait"...Family friendly is the LAST thing you get when you work in this business.
I have always been someone who's work and life bleed together. If I am not happy at work, it will affect my life. Which is why I had to change jobs last year. I check emails at 9pm at night because I want to and always have, even when I wasn't married or even thinking of TTC.
I can't just shut off when I leave my office for the day, I had my blackberry taken away from me while in labor, and my boss called me on maternity leave and chastised me for still answering e-mails while the baby slept...it's just how I am. I love my job, position and every aspect about what I do.
It pains me to constantly see the battle of what it takes to "have it all"...
Could I be a lawyer, no? Even pre-baby insane hours can keep you from having a life sometimes, period...
Could I be teacher, hell no? Not even with summers off. I see my sister do amazingly exhausting things each day in addition to tutoring...
Some people are receptionists with a set schedule from 9-5...that won't work for me either. I like my mornings with Bella...waking her up so I can go to work would make me sad...
I do what works for me. And I feel lucky enough because I feel the closest you can be to having it all. But the moment I do technically "have it all" I think I will be searching on what else there is.
We all struggle to achieve our goals. Marriage, House-buying, jobs, children, etc...isn't that what life is about? I think if I wasn't struggling to make it all work and have it all, I'd be bored.
Message edited 1/24/2007 11:40:22 AM.
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| Posted 1/24/07 11:38 AM |
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Selden78
I lvoe the fall :)
Member since 6/06 3543 total posts
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by JenniferEver
I think "have it all" is incorrect, but I think you can have a career and be a good mom. Like anything else, it tkaes sacrifice
I agree and like ophra siad you can have it all but just not all at the same time :)
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| Posted 1/24/07 12:27 PM |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by prncssrachel
Well, it seems that now you have disturbed ME. I guess we can call it even
The difference, however, is that while you are making a judgment about women in particular situations, saying that they only have themselves to blame I'm merely referring to statistics, not making a judgment. Do I agree with it? Hell no. But that's a fact that we live with right now. The fact is women DO occupy much higher percentages in industries that are typically more family friendly, like, being a teacher, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
So statistics show that us teachers do less work? I am not sure which statistics those would be. And any teacher can tell you, that being a teacher is not as "family friendly" as non-teachers may think. And infact, most teachers I know, including myself, work over summer vacations and also on weekends and after school just so they can make ends meet to work a job they love. And yes, if I do not make it to the top of my career, I only have myself to blame. Whom else shall I place that blame on?
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| Posted 1/24/07 12:53 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
Posted by prncssrachel
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by prncssrachel
Well, it seems that now you have disturbed ME. I guess we can call it even
The difference, however, is that while you are making a judgment about women in particular situations, saying that they only have themselves to blame I'm merely referring to statistics, not making a judgment. Do I agree with it? Hell no. But that's a fact that we live with right now. The fact is women DO occupy much higher percentages in industries that are typically more family friendly, like, being a teacher, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
So statistics show that us teachers do less work? I am not sure which statistics those would be. And any teacher can tell you, that being a teacher is not as "family friendly" as non-teachers may think. And infact, most teachers I know, including myself, work over summer vacations and also on weekends and after school just so they can make ends meet to work a job they love. And yes, if I do not make it to the top of my career, I only have myself to blame. Whom else shall I place that blame on?
I think you're trying to make a leap here that's not going to work. I'm sorry but the work demands of a surgeon, a stockbrocker, someone who works on the trading floor, an attorney at a large, high profile firm, are much MUCH different than that of a teacher. I am NOT commenting on the *importance* of each profession because there's no comparison, but in terms of sheer hours it takes to get ahead in a particular profession, I simply cannot believe that a teacher is expected to work those kind of hours to "make it". Granted, you may have to work more hours to make "ends meet", but that's not what we're talking about here - what we're talking about the basics that are required to reach the pinnacle of one's career. I seriously doubt that many teachers are required to work 15 hour days outside the home every day of the week to reach success in their career.
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| Posted 1/24/07 1:15 PM |
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2girlsforme
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Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
Name:
XXXXXXXXX
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
I rarely post on this board but as a mother for nine years and as a government lawyer I have to largely agree with Beth.
With regard to having it all, I believe that you can't have it all at the same time and that this becomes more and more apparent as your children get older; you get more tired; and their needs completely change. I have found that my oldest, now 9, needs me in ways that my 4 year old does not and frankly in ways that I could not have envisioned when she was a toddler. By this I mean she needs constant chauffeuring, as well as the very real desire for me to be present at her activities. It also becomes very difficult to work insane hours when there are so many school breaks. This is something that I never really considered when my daughter was in a Center.
Although I agree that many woman make it work, I know enough of them to understand they pay a price both physically and mentally. That is why I consider myself very lucky to have a government job, that is part time and allows for work at home.
Another interesting thing is that in my office the attorney cadre is 75% female all of whom are mothers. These are woman that have practiced on the outside, but for family reasons have pursued government work.
Message edited 1/24/2007 2:10:44 PM.
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| Posted 1/24/07 2:09 PM |
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jambalady
Is it summer yet?
Member since 8/06 7392 total posts
Name:
Holly
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
I completely agree with BGellx2. I am not a lawyer but I am a VP at a hedge fund and am expected to be in no later than 8AM each morning and usually don't leave work till 7:30 - 8:30 each night. I am always required to be accessible by blackberry and actually had to negotiate that I would be able to leave my blackberry home on my honeymoon when I first started my job (I was newly engaged). That being said, I love my job and my company has nothing very high regard for what I do and expect me to want to take on additional responsibilities and promotions as they company grows. This is all something that career-wise I would love to be able to take advantage of, but right now my DH and I are considering ttc. I cannot for the life of me see how I would be able to the type of mother I would want to be with my child if I was working 12 hour days, hour commute each day and still meet the expectations my company has of me and do my job to the extent that I kknow I would be capable of doing if I didn't have kids. I definitely resent anyone saying that the fact that I am not capable of doing both is through no fault of anybody's but my own. I am a regular person, no wonderwoman.
I also do not think BGellX2 was trying to insult anybody by saying that certain jobs are less demanding time-wise than others. I have the utmost respect for teachers and what they do and truly believe it is one of teh most important jobs in the world, but the fact of teh matter is that the hours expected of teachers is just not the same as other jobs.
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| Posted 1/24/07 2:16 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: spinoff to Oprah post: Can women have it all?
If "having it all" means a high powered career & a family, I would say no. It's not possible until they invent a machine to clone people.
Posted by Woodsy
In my view, in order to successfully manage career and family and therefore have it all, it is crucial that: (1) you have a employer who is supportive of working women; (2) a husband who helps out; and (3) a great day care provider. I feel blessed to have these 3 elements and think that there is no impediment to me having it all....
I agree with Woodsy. The bottom line is that an employer in certain industries are going to expect the 12+ hour days.
I probably differ with most of the posts based on my point of view that those busting their tushes for those hours deserve to get ahead, to be promoted, to be given more important clients simply because if a client needs you at 8pm at night, you're available.
Truth be told I think I do have it all. I have a very good job; I definitely work more than 8+ hours. I have a family who is my rock & my reason to get up in the morning. I have it all but it is by my own definition.
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| Posted 1/24/07 4:02 PM |
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