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Christine
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by Elbee
Posted by Christine
These kids are school aged - they should have been able to sit for what? 20 minutes they were already late to service.
I think the mother should have tried harder to get them to be at least respectful of where they were - being a little stir crazy & fidgety in their seat or making a little too much noise is one thing. They were running around the alter and the church.
I completely 100% agree with you there ... I am just not sure it is 'my place' to discipline them after already speaking to the mother regarding the matter.
Would it be your place to say something if the kids were doing something dangerous? or in a position to hurt themselves?
(general your - not specifically you)
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Posted 4/8/08 6:20 PM  |
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Elbee
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by Christine
Posted by Elbee
Posted by Christine
These kids are school aged - they should have been able to sit for what? 20 minutes they were already late to service.
I think the mother should have tried harder to get them to be at least respectful of where they were - being a little stir crazy & fidgety in their seat or making a little too much noise is one thing. They were running around the alter and the church.
I completely 100% agree with you there ... I am just not sure it is 'my place' to discipline them after already speaking to the mother regarding the matter.
Would it be your place to say something if the kids were doing something dangerous? or in a position to hurt themselves?
(general your - not specifically you)
Absolutely, if they were in harms way. If she didn't originally say something to the mother I would have agreed with her actually. I probably would have addressed the kids politely on their level then perhaps introduced myself to the parent and said "sorry, I was afraid they are going to get injured" ... but to me by going about it the other you previously addressed it. You need to walk away from it then and let the mother handle it. Again, that's my opinion and what I would have done. PS: I am a CCD teacher so I have disciplined plenty of naughty 5-12 year olds.
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| Posted 4/8/08 6:25 PM |
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Chai77
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I think that what you did was a good thing. The mother was obviously unable or unwilling to correct her children. You first tried to speak with the mother about it, but nothing came of it. She may have said she was doing something about it, but she effectively did nothing.
And I think saying something to the kids was fine. You didn't "discipline" them, slap, punish or yell at them. You informed them of how inappropriate their behavior was and explained why. I remember being yelled at in the store by a stranger when my brother and I were running around and annoying people. You can bet my mom backed up that stranger and punished us when we got home. And we never ran around in a store again.
Would people think it was OK for the OP to say something if the kid decided to pee on the alter and the mom did nothing? I think she felt they were basically disrespecting her beliefs and maybe that's why she felt compelled to say something.
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| Posted 4/8/08 9:14 PM |
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dpli
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I have a few thoughts on this and I did read all the responses first.
I think it was OK to say something to the mother, it is inappropriate for the kids to be running around in church. I think if that went nowhere, then the next step was to speak with the deacon, especially since Mass was over at this point. I don't think it was the place of the OP to discipline someone else's child and I would have said this before I was a parent.
A lot of people are saying that neighbors and friends would have told their parents that they misbehaved. This mom was right there, heard what the OP said and chose to ignore it. She is not enlisting the help of the village, and in this case, I think only some sort of authority (church official) might have been able to stop the behavior.
At the rehearsal for my wedding, we had a hard time keeping my niece off the altar and the RCIA people were appalled. When I spoke with the priest about this later (who is a close friend) he said, "well, it happens sometimes, it's not that big of a deal..." I think sometimes the lay people get much more upset by this than some of the clergy do.
My overwhelming reaction to this though, is that this woman was in church praying. You have no idea what she is going through or what has brought her to stay after the Mass for prayer. I would prefer to err on the side of being kind, even if her children were unruly. Part of going to Mass is being with the community and I think you might have been a little harsh with her.
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| Posted 4/8/08 9:44 PM |
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nrthshgrl
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by dpli
I have a few thoughts on this and I did read all the responses first.
I think it was OK to say something to the mother, it is inappropriate for the kids to be running around in church. I think if that went nowhere, then the next step was to speak with the deacon, especially since Mass was over at this point. I don't think it was the place of the OP to discipline someone else's child and I would have said this before I was a parent.
A lot of people are saying that neighbors and friends would have told their parents that they misbehaved. This mom was right there, heard what the OP said and chose to ignore it. She is not enlisting the help of the village, and in this case, I think only some sort of authority (church official) might have been able to stop the behavior.
At the rehearsal for my wedding, we had a hard time keeping my niece off the altar and the RCIA people were appalled. When I spoke with the priest about this later (who is a close friend) he said, "well, it happens sometimes, it's not that big of a deal..." I think sometimes the lay people get much more upset by this than some of the clergy do.
My overwhelming reaction to this though, is that this woman was in church praying. You have no idea what she is going through or what has brought her to stay after the Mass for prayer. I would prefer to err on the side of being kind, even if her children were unruly. Part of going to Mass is being with the community and I think you might have been a little harsh with her.
I agree.
But would add that if it were my kids, I wouldn't take offense over someone telling them to stop misbehaving. Instead I would be mortified that they were bothering someone else if I ever let it get to that point.
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| Posted 4/8/08 10:30 PM |
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wannabemom
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I dunno.... IMO, I don't think the sanctity of parental discipline exceeds that of the mass and the church. I know my opinion isn't popular, but I have rather traditional views of things. Houses of worship are sacred.
If kids are about to play on the altar, and mom doesn't grab them and stop them, I will.... simply because I consider that to be a desecration.....
I would agree with the other posters if this same scenario took place in a restaurant, but not a place of worship during a formal time of worship. It is the parent's responsibility to not let their children disturb the other worshipers. If they can't do it, someone else should step in. To not quell the disturbance or prevent it from occurring again is to basically disrespect the rights of the other hundred worshipers to focus on their faith, God, and pray for a resolution to their own personal turmoils.... merely because one parent can't keep their kids under control. In situations like that, a prudent parent would either return when they can be alone, or return when a service is not being conducted.
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| Posted 4/8/08 10:57 PM |
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kms717
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Kelly
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I've felt like that in church many times, but I wouldn't act on it. I've had crying babies, screaming kids, etc. drowning out the priest and the mother doesn't get up and leave with them and I get so annoyed. But then I try to remind myself that it's God's house and all are welcomed and it's not my place to judge them.
I don't think there was anything wrong with you addressing the mother, but I wouldn't discipline someone else's children.
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| Posted 4/8/08 11:02 PM |
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kms717
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by wannabemom
I dunno.... IMO, I don't think the sanctity of parental discipline exceeds that of the mass and the church. I know my opinion isn't popular, but I have rather traditional views of things. Houses of worship are sacred.
If kids are about to play on the altar, and mom doesn't grab them and stop them, I will.... simply because I consider that to be a desecration.....
I would agree with the other posters if this same scenario took place in a restaurant, but not a place of worship during a formal time of worship. It is the parent's responsibility to not let their children disturb the other worshipers. If they can't do it, someone else should step in. To not quell the disturbance or prevent it from occurring again is to basically disrespect the rights of the other hundred worshipers to focus on their faith, God, and pray for a resolution to their own personal turmoils.... merely because one parent can't keep their kids under control. In situations like that, a prudent parent would either return when they can be alone, or return when a service is not being conducted.
Fair enough, but they were at a family mass, I would suggest going to a regular mass rather than one filled with children. And again, it's God's house not ours. We are supposed to love and accept each other as we are.
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| Posted 4/8/08 11:06 PM |
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wannabemom
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Family mass or not, that is unacceptable behavior IMO. 99% of kids don't act like that. Family mass at our church isn't chaotic. A few babies may cry, but everyone is respectful of what is occuring.
it is possible to love and accept while still being respectful....
Message edited 4/8/2008 11:13:46 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/08 11:11 PM |
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DaniJude
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Danielle
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
Posted by JessInCA
I don't think there's anything wrong with what you did - it's not like you went off on her kids, it sounds like you handled it maturely and chose your words well. And I honestly wish more people would do things like that.
I think part of the reason so many more kids behave badly in public as compared to years ago is because so many of us choose to "look the other way". Back in the day, the neighbors would tell on you, or yell at you themselves if you acted up. It wasn't just the parents who took responsibility for teaching children proper behavior. But now, everyone ignores it because we feel it's none of our business or are afraid that the kid's parents will get mad... I don't think it's a change for the better. JMHO.
ITA and was thinking the same thing. I was "raised" by my neighborhood & was taught to respect adults.
I have said things to kids that were behaving badly and their parents have always thanked me for it so...you did the right thing.
I totally agree also -- yes, it is a parent's place to discipline their children but when one fails to do so, like in this case, repeatedly, then sometimes something should be said... When I was younger if I tried to pull this I think I can name about 15 mother's from my neighborhood that would have been like "KNOCK IT OFF" and said it a lot harsher than the OP did!
There's no respect anymore - the more and more I see - the more kids are OUT of control. Obviously, not everyone is but so many are.
Message edited 4/8/2008 11:19:58 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/08 11:19 PM |
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janet
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
weird thng is yesterday at my dd confermation rehearsal there where these 2 girls and their behavor was so bad that more then one time i gave them such a look that could have killed. and yet they still went on like they did nothing wrong i am not a regular chuch going person but i know darn well that if i was in a church i was the best behaved kid thier(ok yes i am a little buzed.. i have off tomorroe sorry for misspells) anyway it did bother me exspecially when they where picked to do readings for the confermation ok i think it is time for bed.... i do not think i am getting this across right
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| Posted 4/8/08 11:24 PM |
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by Ophelia
the Lord would have had to stage an intervention.
NO ONE will speak to my children like that. NO ONE.
if that mom would have snatched her children up and disciplined them in front of everyone, people would have been appalled at her aggression (and it seems like the kids know this)...she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't.
YOu have no idea what goes on in their home. what kind of disciplinary actions she takes.
You don't even know if what you did...embarrassing the mother in church, cause her to BEAT her children when they got behind closed doors.
when you become an adult you lose the ability to address children of those you don't know directly. You should have stayed on your own playing field and delt again with the mother, or better yet, have the priest/deacon offer up his help.
I agree. You are only seeing a fragment of these peoples lives. Maybe the children have some issue where they are not ABLE to listen. It's not like they did anything to you personally, so I think it is wrong for you to get involved.
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| Posted 4/9/08 12:00 AM |
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Janice
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I always took the term "Family Mass" as it being geared towards children. Meaning the they are included in the homily or they get to sit up front or something...
I don't think its a free pass to treat church as a playground.
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| Posted 4/9/08 12:16 AM |
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Stacey1403
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by KerriSteve
Posted by Ophelia
the Lord would have had to stage an intervention.
NO ONE will speak to my children like that. NO ONE.
if that mom would have snatched her children up and disciplined them in front of everyone, people would have been appalled at her aggression (and it seems like the kids know this)...she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't.
YOu have no idea what goes on in their home. what kind of disciplinary actions she takes.
You don't even know if what you did...embarrassing the mother in church, cause her to BEAT her children when they got behind closed doors.
when you become an adult you lose the ability to address children of those you don't know directly. You should have stayed on your own playing field and delt again with the mother, or better yet, have the priest/deacon offer up his help.
I agree. You are only seeing a fragment of these peoples lives. Maybe the children have some issue where they are not ABLE to listen. It's not like they did anything to you personally, so I think it is wrong for you to get involved.
ITA too
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| Posted 4/9/08 7:03 AM |
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BriBri2u
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Mrs. B
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
Posted by JessInCA
I don't think there's anything wrong with what you did - it's not like you went off on her kids, it sounds like you handled it maturely and chose your words well. And I honestly wish more people would do things like that.
I think part of the reason so many more kids behave badly in public as compared to years ago is because so many of us choose to "look the other way". Back in the day, the neighbors would tell on you, or yell at you themselves if you acted up. It wasn't just the parents who took responsibility for teaching children proper behavior. But now, everyone ignores it because we feel it's none of our business or are afraid that the kid's parents will get mad... I don't think it's a change for the better. JMHO.
ITA and was thinking the same thing. I was "raised" by my neighborhood & was taught to respect adults.
I have said things to kids that were behaving badly and their parents have always thanked me for it so...you did the right thing.
I totally agree also -- yes, it is a parent's place to discipline their children but when one fails to do so, like in this case, repeatedly, then sometimes something should be said... When I was younger if I tried to pull this I think I can name about 15 mother's from my neighborhood that would have been like "KNOCK IT OFF" and said it a lot harsher than the OP did!
There's no respect anymore - the more and more I see - the more kids are OUT of control. Obviously, not everyone is but so many are.
I have not read all the posts on this thread...but I do agree with these comments. It IS a parent's place to discipline their children - I don't argue that. However, they are in a Holy place - family mass or not - YOU as a parent need to take control of your kids.
I attended mass every Sunday with my family growing up - my brother, sister and I knew that for the next hour we were in God's house - not grandma's or Aunt Sallys. So that basically meant - sit still and keep quiet...My mother would not tolerate running around the alter while the gospel was being read or any other outbusrt.
I also understand that most kids CAN'T sit still for more than 5 mins - but thats not an excuse to NOT take control of the situation (re the parent here).
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| Posted 4/9/08 8:23 AM |
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CrankyPants
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by nrthshgrl
I agree.
But would add that if it were my kids, I wouldn't take offense over someone telling them to stop misbehaving. Instead I would be mortified that they were bothering someone else if I ever let it get to that point.
I agree 100%-if these were my kids, I would be mortified that I had let the situation get out of control to the point that someone else had to intervene. I'm not saying it's okay for someone else to yell at my kid, but to tell them to stop horsing around-sure.
Also-to the original poster-maybe she was praying for someone to help her control her kids and you were the answer to her prayers!
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| Posted 4/9/08 9:28 AM |
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CrankyPants
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Mama Cranky
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by Janice
I always took the term "Family Mass" as it being geared towards children. Meaning the they are included in the homily or they get to sit up front or something...
I don't think its a free pass to treat church as a playground.
I agree with this too
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| Posted 4/9/08 9:29 AM |
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lucyloo
nope
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I think you did the right thing. If it did something like that as a kid I would have been dragged out by my ear. I can't believe what parents let their kids get away with.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:00 AM |
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Ophelia
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
whoever said it's God's house, not our's, thank you.
WWJD?
do you think he would reprimand those kids? mortify the mother? no.
how do we really know what God's position is on the subject of children playing at mass? how do we know it doesn't make him smile?
the truth is, we don't.
is it disturbing? Yes. annoying perhaps to some? sure.
BUT just b/c something upsets YOU does not mean it upsets ALL...and if the Deacon....the caretaker of the Lord's home wasn't upset enough to say something...who am I to?
Like I said before, there were other ways it could have been handled that may have worked out better.
I cannot imagine my children acting up like this at church on any given Sunday.
but perhaps for this woman is wasn't any given Sunday. Perhaps something was going on in her life on this day and she needed her strength and prayer to handle that, rather than round up her children.
the point is, we know nothing, except what we are being told, and what someone witnessed in an hour of church. One hour in the entire life of a family.
Perhaps if this was the upteenth Sunday and all, my mind would be different. but ONCE..no.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:14 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
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And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
that's a lot of "what ifs" and "hypotheticals"
if you let that control you, nothing gets done
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:20 AM |
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Faithx2
All good things in 2016!!
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by oops123
In a perfect world, the kids shouldnt have been running around,
they should have been sitting in the pew like 2 perfect gentlemen and listening to the sermon....
And when they got bored and started acting up,
the mother SHOULD have taken them by the hand and led them outside so that they didnt disstract the other parishoners.
In a perfect world....
but she didnt.
If I were there, I personally wouldnt have said anything to her,
and certainly not directly to the children themselves.
Although I dont let my kids get out of control when we are out, every mom has a bad day w/their kids,
and I would be beyond perturbed if someone ever spoke in a derrogatory way to my children.
and...as a mother of 2 active boys, I give her a LOT of credit for even going to church!
ITA
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:25 AM |
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AmyG13
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 159 total posts
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Amy
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
I don't see anything wrong with what the OP said. She did not yell at the children or speak down to them. I don't see explaining to a child why their actions are inappropriate as "discipline".
I remember being threatened all the time as a child with "if you don't stop it the lady (a cashier, waitress, etc) is going to yell at you". Realizing that other people were aware of what I was doing always made me stop.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:30 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
that's a lot of "what ifs" and "hypotheticals"
if you let that control you, nothing gets done
not true. I didn't say I would do nothing. I said I would have handled it differently. and I said what I would have and would not have done based on the little information I have.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:30 AM |
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igottabeme
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Wouldnt you like to know! ;)
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
IMO, if the kids are misbehaving in Church its very disrespectful and she should have taken them outside until they've calmed down.
OP was right to address the mother but other than that i would never have the guts to speak directly to someone else's kids and try to discipline them.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:35 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
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And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Situation: Was I right or wrong..what would you have done?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
that's a lot of "what ifs" and "hypotheticals"
if you let that control you, nothing gets done
not true. I didn't say I would do nothing. I said I would have handled it differently. and I said what I would have and would not have done based on the little information I have.
also, i believe the OP said that the deacon was not available to speak to at the time
he came out after she had already spoken to the children
she spoke to the mother - mom did nothing
she didn't yell at the kids - she told them that this was a place of worship and that it was inappropriate
Nothing wrong with that - if she said, "will you brats get off the freaking altar" - that would be different.
And for all the people that are saying "no one better talk to my kids in a derogatory way" look at it like this.
Your kids are not perfect. They are going to go to school and eventually work, where they will be reprimanded by teachers and bosses - a lot worse than the tone took here. Will you be annoyed when your kid comes home and says the teacher yelled at me for running in the hall?
And I know the answer will be 'The mother was in the church - so she was aware." But, the mother did nothing. Regardless of all the hypotheticals of whether or not she had a bad day, or whether she will go home and beat them - she did nothing. She might as well have not been there. No one else was around. So she did it in the best way she could, IMO.
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| Posted 4/9/08 10:38 AM |
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