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Final Presidential Debate
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jlm2008
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by jlm2008
Especially by the main nasty 3.
Nasty woman. Where have I heard that lately?
I'm not a Trump supporter, so your sarcasm failed.
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Posted 10/20/16 11:23 AM  |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
In your drunk driver scenario...the driver would be charged for TWO murders...funny how that works, huh?
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:31 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
And that's fine for you. But do you want to impose your beliefs and deny other women or couples children because of that? That is when it becomes an issue. Not your beliefs but trying to say everyone must conform to what you want. That's where the problem arises so often with pro-life/anti reproductive assistance people.
No one on the pro-choice side has ever said because I am pro-choice and it is our right everyone HAS to have an abortion at some point.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:32 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:32 AM |
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ChilisWife
God Bless America
Member since 5/05 3570 total posts
Name:
A.K.
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
In your drunk driver scenario...the driver would be charged for TWO murders...funny how that works, huh?
Yes thats my point. Its murder or its not. The actor (mother v driver) shouldnt matter.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:34 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
In your drunk driver scenario...the driver would be charged for TWO murders...funny how that works, huh?
Not necessarily. A lot of factors would have to go into determining that such as gestational age of fetus, whether the fetus was delivered alive and then died, etc. Sometimes they aren't even charged with murder for killing an actual person in DWI's.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:34 AM |
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ChilisWife
God Bless America
Member since 5/05 3570 total posts
Name:
A.K.
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I havent read the link yet but will do later. I dont know the numbers. But all I keep seeing in my head is that loathesome video from a few months ago of the woman videotaping her abortion quite cheerfully and then having a party to celebrate. Of course I dont think thats the norm. But I do personally know more than one woman - educated women who know better - not use birth control in the "heat of the moment" then have an abortion bc they "werent ready" for a baby. So yeah it happens.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:38 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I know you will find a way to criticize whatever I say, but since it doesn't actually bother me, I'll bite. I had a close friend, who had three abortions. Did not use birth control ever, also was not wealthy, actually very low middle class. These abortions were done well into her 20's, she was not a teen.She used abortions as birth control. I don't know why, or how, forget about all my beliefs, but I never understood how that was the economical choice. She also had an abortion at 24 weeks...so for the posters on this thread who say that never happens, it does.I did not know her at that time, so I'm not sure where she had it performed, but she did say she had to go somewhere else for it.
Message edited 10/20/2016 11:41:31 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:40 AM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
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Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by seaside
Posted by JP826
Posted by BaseballWidow
It is NOT a person and therefore does not have rights. The woman carrying the fetus does, however. A right to decided what she needs to do for herself and her family. As an actual person responsible for herself and possibly other people, already.
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
Heartbeat = LIFE
I respect your belief. May I ask (genuinely, respectfully asking)--how you and others who share this view feel pre-heartbeat, and even about craeting, but not using some embryos in the course of ivf? Genuinely interested.
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
You could always adopt an unwanted child. It's one thing to fight for preventing a woman from choosing, it's quite another to actually go out and champion for these unwanted children you believe should be brought into this world despite their mother's objection and actually adopt one and give it a loving home and childhood.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:40 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
In your drunk driver scenario...the driver would be charged for TWO murders...funny how that works, huh?
Depends on the state and the viability of the fetus.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:41 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by jlm2008
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
And that's fine for you. But do you want to impose your beliefs and deny other women or couples children because of that? That is when it becomes an issue. Not your beliefs but trying to say everyone must conform to what you want. That's where the problem arises so often with pro-life/anti reproductive assistance people.
No one on the pro-choice side has ever said because I am pro-choice and it is our right everyone HAS to have an abortion at some point.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:42 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by seaside
Posted by JP826
Posted by BaseballWidow
It is NOT a person and therefore does not have rights. The woman carrying the fetus does, however. A right to decided what she needs to do for herself and her family. As an actual person responsible for herself and possibly other people, already.
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
Heartbeat = LIFE
I respect your belief. May I ask (genuinely, respectfully asking)--how you and others who share this view feel pre-heartbeat, and even about craeting, but not using some embryos in the course of ivf? Genuinely interested.
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
So then, you would have expected my mother to carry a brain damaged fetus to term, go through labor, and then have a funeral for it? Instead of her being able to make the terrible decision earlier in the pregnancy, pick up the pieces and move on?
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:43 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by MC09
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by seaside
Posted by JP826
Posted by BaseballWidow
It is NOT a person and therefore does not have rights. The woman carrying the fetus does, however. A right to decided what she needs to do for herself and her family. As an actual person responsible for herself and possibly other people, already.
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
Heartbeat = LIFE
I respect your belief. May I ask (genuinely, respectfully asking)--how you and others who share this view feel pre-heartbeat, and even about craeting, but not using some embryos in the course of ivf? Genuinely interested.
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
You could always adopt an unwanted child. It's one thing to fight for preventing a woman from choosing, it's quite another to actually go out and champion for these unwanted children you believe should be brought into this world despite their mother's objection and actually adopt one and give it a loving home and childhood.
You are absolutely right about adopting. What I meant more about being 38, is I am also single, so if I do ever have a family, I would very much like to be married first and I'm not sure if that will be happening at this point! I'm also not in the economic position to have a child now either
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:44 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by jlm2008
Especially by the main nasty 3.
Nasty woman. Where have I heard that lately?
Ooh I wonder if I'm included, you know, since I'm horrible for being pro-choice even after my daughter almost died.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:44 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ohbaby08
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by seaside
Posted by JP826
Posted by BaseballWidow
It is NOT a person and therefore does not have rights. The woman carrying the fetus does, however. A right to decided what she needs to do for herself and her family. As an actual person responsible for herself and possibly other people, already.
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
Heartbeat = LIFE
I respect your belief. May I ask (genuinely, respectfully asking)--how you and others who share this view feel pre-heartbeat, and even about craeting, but not using some embryos in the course of ivf? Genuinely interested.
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
So then, you would have expected my mother to carry a brain damaged fetus to term, go through labor, and then have a funeral for it? Instead of her being able to make the terrible decision earlier in the pregnancy, pick up the pieces and move on?
When have I ever said that? No, not at all. I believe abortion should be legal in the case of rape, incest, or if the life of the mother or the child is in danger.
Message edited 10/20/2016 11:46:03 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:45 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by jlm2008
Especially by the main nasty 3.
Nasty woman. Where have I heard that lately?
Ooh I wonder if I'm included, you know, since I'm horrible for being pro-choice even after my daughter almost died.
And want to know a secret? After I FINALLY got pregnant after 4 years of infertility, I actually denied certain tests because the outcome would not have have changed my decision to carry her to term. 
Message edited 10/20/2016 11:47:38 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:46 AM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19454 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I havent read the link yet but will do later. I dont know the numbers. But all I keep seeing in my head is that loathesome video from a few months ago of the woman videotaping her abortion quite cheerfully and then having a party to celebrate. Of course I dont think thats the norm. But I do personally know more than one woman - educated women who know better - not use birth control in the "heat of the moment" then have an abortion bc they "werent ready" for a baby. So yeah it happens.
ok so you are basing this off one one person whose mental competency I would question, and frankly, what medical provider in their right mind would ever allow something like this or any procedure to be taped. Do you consider the pill RU486 to be equivalent to having a medical procedure? Wouldn't the woman who had a heat of the moment escapade use a pill?
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:46 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Final Presidential Debate
I'm curious how many women discuss their abortions with other people. I believe it shouldn't be stigmatized but I'm just surprised that it's so common.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:48 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54919 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Ok well what about same sex marriage then?
If you are personally against it for religious reasons- does that mean it should be outlawed as well?
Because you PERSONALLY believe it's wrong?
That's where it becomes a slippery slope of imposing religious beliefs on an entire country- many of whom don't practice that same religion or share those beliefs.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:50 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ElizaRags35
I'm curious how many women discuss their abortions with other people. I believe it shouldn't be stigmatized but I'm just surprised that it's so common.
In my circle of friends and family (people who I am close to as opposed to acquaintaces), we are all generally within the realm of being pro-choice, although some have a wide berth as to what that means. But ultimately, at the end of the day, we all agree in a woman's right to choose for her own body. End of story.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:52 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I know you will find a way to criticize whatever I say, but since it doesn't actually bother me, I'll bite. I had a close friend, who had three abortions. Did not use birth control ever, also was not wealthy, actually very low middle class. These abortions were done well into her 20's, she was not a teen.She used abortions as birth control. I don't know why, or how, forget about all my beliefs, but I never understood how that was the economical choice. She also had an abortion at 24 weeks...so for the posters on this thread who say that never happens, it does.I did not know her at that time, so I'm not sure where she had it performed, but she did say she had to go somewhere else for it.
I appreciate your response and I do agree that yes, there ARE women who use abortions as birth control. I just don't know how prevalent it truly is or if we are all just believing in some right-wing propaganda that there are all these immoral women running around having abortions like they change their underwear. Maybe I personally just don't choose to believe that the amount is staggering - it happens, but I don't believe it to be on the scale the right-wing makes it out to be.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:55 AM |
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ChilisWife
God Bless America
Member since 5/05 3570 total posts
Name:
A.K.
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I know you will find a way to criticize whatever I say, but since it doesn't actually bother me, I'll bite. I had a close friend, who had three abortions. Did not use birth control ever, also was not wealthy, actually very low middle class. These abortions were done well into her 20's, she was not a teen.She used abortions as birth control. I don't know why, or how, forget about all my beliefs, but I never understood how that was the economical choice. She also had an abortion at 24 weeks...so for the posters on this thread who say that never happens, it does.I did not know her at that time, so I'm not sure where she had it performed, but she did say she had to go somewhere else for it.
I appreciate your response and I do agree that yes, there ARE women who use abortions as birth control. I just don't know how prevalent it truly is or if we are all just believing in some right-wing propaganda that there are all these immoral women running around having abortions like they change their underwear. Maybe I personally just don't choose to believe that the amount is staggering - it happens, but I don't believe it to be on the scale the right-wing makes it out to be.
See I kinda see it the opposite way. I dont think that the vast majority of abortions are all rape victims and mothers of fetuses with diseases. I would be curious if there were any stats on that.
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| Posted 10/20/16 12:01 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ElizaRags35
I'm curious how many women discuss their abortions with other people. I believe it shouldn't be stigmatized but I'm just surprised that it's so common.
I am 41. When I was in my 20s I had a lot of friends that had abortions. They didn't go around and broadcast it but they confided in a few close friends. All of them were conservative Catholics btw. All of them used these abortions as a form of birth control. The pregnancies all happened after a night of drunken unprotected sex.
Fast forward to now, I owned a business that employed a lot of late teen and early 20s women. A girl I hired told me three weeks later that she was unexpectedly pregnant, then told me she needed off the following thrusday for her abortion. I barely knew her and I was her boss. I also found out a couple of the other girls had also had abortions. Again all birth control. They were all very open about it, none of them seemed to care. It was very normal.
I think it's sad. I am prochoice for a number of reasons but I feel like pregnancy is a "consequence" of having sex and it's a consequence you have to be willing to accept. Even if you have failed contraception I believe that you should have the baby. I would not force my beliefs on someone else, hence why I am prochoice, but I really don't know how people can justify that it's not a life. Maybe back in the day before there were sonograms and before you could see what a 8/10/12 week old baby looks like, but not anymore.
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| Posted 10/20/16 12:02 PM |
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Mrs&MrsK
i need sleep ;-)
Member since 2/14 2008 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
I'm infertile and 100% stand by a woman's right to choose.
I have always been very pro choice and if anything, my journey with infertility only strengthened it. Reproductive choice is not just about abortion but the right to make decisions and have options when it comes to every aspect of it. Limiting our rights with abortion is a very slippery slope to limits on types and who gets to pursue fertility treatments.
 to both of you.
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| Posted 10/20/16 12:03 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by ChilisWife
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
I totally respect your points and concerns. My question though - and not directed at you specifically - is do we really know how many women are using abortions for birth control? Abortions cost money...if they don't have money for birth control, how do they have money for an abortion? And how much of this is a myth, just like the mythical "welfare queens" (which many studies disprove the largely Conservative angle that women are unjustly abusing the welfare system). So how valid is this concern, and how much is predicated on myth?
I found this article and it gives some fantastic information
Foiling Fallacies
I know you will find a way to criticize whatever I say, but since it doesn't actually bother me, I'll bite. I had a close friend, who had three abortions. Did not use birth control ever, also was not wealthy, actually very low middle class. These abortions were done well into her 20's, she was not a teen.She used abortions as birth control. I don't know why, or how, forget about all my beliefs, but I never understood how that was the economical choice. She also had an abortion at 24 weeks...so for the posters on this thread who say that never happens, it does.I did not know her at that time, so I'm not sure where she had it performed, but she did say she had to go somewhere else for it.
I appreciate your response and I do agree that yes, there ARE women who use abortions as birth control. I just don't know how prevalent it truly is or if we are all just believing in some right-wing propaganda that there are all these immoral women running around having abortions like they change their underwear. Maybe I personally just don't choose to believe that the amount is staggering - it happens, but I don't believe it to be on the scale the right-wing makes it out to be.
See I kinda see it the opposite way. I dont think that the vast majority of abortions are all rape victims and mothers of fetuses with diseases. I would be curious if there were any stats on that.
I know many, many people that have had abortions and all but one were because of an accidental pregnancy. The one that was not, the fetus would have died eventually anyway and so the pregnancy was terminated to end the suffering of the mother. I don't know one rape victim that needed an abortion.
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| Posted 10/20/16 12:04 PM |
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