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Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

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jana
LIF Adult

Member since 3/06

1134 total posts

Name:

Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Although I understand both sides of the illegal apartment debate it got me thinking..many said it was the fact that Uncle Sam wasn't getting his fair share in taxes because the apartments were not reported. But, where do you personally draw the line?

For ex:
How many of you pay to have your lawns cut? Are all those spanish workers(I am not saying all are of Spanish decent- but most are) on the books and reported? Are the owners of the companies paying employee tax or benefits for them? I personally have never asked to see anyones greencard or documents. But having delt with 3 different lawn guys,they all preferred cash. Hmmm?

How about those family owned construction companies? I know for a fact that MANY employees are NOT on the books and work for cash. How many of these workers were picked up in front of a Home Depot as day workers? Once again, no benefits or protection for the worker and no taxes paid to the government.

When you get your nails done and look up on the wall to see the framed licenses..do you see EVERY employees picture on the wall? or is it only a few "regular workers" that you see often in the salon? There always seems to be one or two new girls observing or just learning.. I could almost bet they are not reported.

When you write a post here or one on Craigslist asking for a "handyman" to paint a room,set some tiles or put up sheetrock,etc..have you always recieved an itemized bill and have you asked to see their license and tax ID #..ya know- just to make sure they are reporting this "side job" as legit income and that they pay taxes on these earnings.

When you go to your favorite Italian restaurant or Fav spot in China town..do you think all of the bus boys and line cooks are legit and not working for cash or off the books?

I'm not being harsh here or really pointing fingers..it just got me thinking that if some feel soooooo passionate because their neighbor is getting away with flushing an extra toilet than I challenge you to look to yourself.

Have you ever done the above? Had your lawn cut, some construction done, nails or maybe eye brows..perhaps had your water poured in a restaurant by an illegal immigrant. Well then you are just as guilty as well.

We live in a very overcrowded,diverse,expensive state.
I will never pass judgement on an honest worker because in all these cases I listed above..its the OWNERS that are getting away with the tax evasion and we as patrons are helping them.

I admit I myself am guilty of all these things I listed above. I have no idea if all the construction workers that came to my house 2 yrs ago to pave my property were all legit..I struck up the deal with the owner,not the workers. But 10 guys came daily for 2 weeks..only 2 spoke a few words in english.

I am NOT starting a debate or pointing fingers.. it just simply got me thinking how many times a day we find ourselves in these or similar situations.

Posted 2/28/08 9:18 PM
 
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Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

You could add (sorry to add some fuel to this!!!)

- Who has ever worked for tips when they were younger and did not declare it on your taxes?

- Do you respect all the road rules? Stop signs, speed limit?

Some things are more important than other for each one of us. We all tend to forget that we all break the law "sometimes".

Posted 2/28/08 10:06 PM
 

nicrae
He's here!

Member since 12/06

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Mommy

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

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Posted 2/28/08 11:10 PM
 

Bebalina
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Member since 6/05

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Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

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Posted 2/29/08 12:01 AM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

I have never knowingly hired or paid anyone "off the books". I can't ask for working papers for every person who works in every restaurant I go to. I have to go with the assumption that other people are following the law.

I do speed, but I don't believe that I should be allowed to because everyone else does, and if I get caught, I won't argue that what I did was OK because other people do it, or because I can't afford to spend the extra 5 minutes travel time to go the speed limit.

I believe that it's one thing to "bend" the laws a bit, but totally different thinking you should be "allowed" to get away with it just because you want to do it.

I think the apartment debate was more about "needing" to break the law to pay for your house. Nobody "needs" to break the law, or is entitled to break the law, even if "everyone else is doing it".

Posted 2/29/08 7:39 AM
 

quasi3
LIF Adult

Member since 7/07

1764 total posts

Name:
Stacey

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

I don't think you can say bending the rule a bit is okay, but breaking the law is not.

Are they not the same thing? A law is a law!

Posted 2/29/08 8:11 AM
 

quasi3
LIF Adult

Member since 7/07

1764 total posts

Name:
Stacey

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by jana

Although I understand both sides of the illegal apartment debate it got me thinking..many said it was the fact that Uncle Sam wasn't getting his fair share in taxes because the apartments were not reported. But, where do you personally draw the line?

For ex:
How many of you pay to have your lawns cut? Are all those spanish workers(I am not saying all are of Spanish decent- but most are) on the books and reported? Are the owners of the companies paying employee tax or benefits for them? I personally have never asked to see anyones greencard or documents. But having delt with 3 different lawn guys,they all preferred cash. Hmmm?

How about those family owned construction companies? I know for a fact that MANY employees are NOT on the books and work for cash. How many of these workers were picked up in front of a Home Depot as day workers? Once again, no benefits or protection for the worker and no taxes paid to the government.

When you get your nails done and look up on the wall to see the framed licenses..do you see EVERY employees picture on the wall? or is it only a few "regular workers" that you see often in the salon? There always seems to be one or two new girls observing or just learning.. I could almost bet they are not reported.

When you write a post here or one on Craigslist asking for a "handyman" to paint a room,set some tiles or put up sheetrock,etc..have you always recieved an itemized bill and have you asked to see their license and tax ID #..ya know- just to make sure they are reporting this "side job" as legit income and that they pay taxes on these earnings.

When you go to your favorite Italian restaurant or Fav spot in China town..do you think all of the bus boys and line cooks are legit and not working for cash or off the books?

I'm not being harsh here or really pointing fingers..it just got me thinking that if some feel soooooo passionate because their neighbor is getting away with flushing an extra toilet than I challenge you to look to yourself.

Have you ever done the above? Had your lawn cut, some construction done, nails or maybe eye brows..perhaps had your water poured in a restaurant by an illegal immigrant. Well then you are just as guilty as well.

We live in a very overcrowded,diverse,expensive state.
I will never pass judgement on an honest worker because in all these cases I listed above..its the OWNERS that are getting away with the tax evasion and we as patrons are helping them.

I admit I myself am guilty of all these things I listed above. I have no idea if all the construction workers that came to my house 2 yrs ago to pave my property were all legit..I struck up the deal with the owner,not the workers. But 10 guys came daily for 2 weeks..only 2 spoke a few words in english.

I am NOT starting a debate or pointing fingers.. it just simply got me thinking how many times a day we find ourselves in these or similar situations.




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Posted 2/29/08 8:12 AM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by quasi3

I don't think you can say bending the rule a bit is okay, but breaking the law is not.

Are they not the same thing? A law is a law!




I never said it was OK, just different. I agree that I break the law when I speed. I would put money down that there is nobody in the US that never breaks a single law. Some laws contradict each other, so following one law sometimes breaks another. There are so many laws that very few people actually know all the laws, either. My emphasis is on not believing you are *entitled* to break the law just because you want to.

Posted 2/29/08 8:37 AM
 

Diana1215
Living on a prayer!!!

Member since 10/05

29450 total posts

Name:
Diana

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by jana

Although I understand both sides of the illegal apartment debate it got me thinking..many said it was the fact that Uncle Sam wasn't getting his fair share in taxes because the apartments were not reported. But, where do you personally draw the line?

For ex:
How many of you pay to have your lawns cut? Are all those spanish workers(I am not saying all are of Spanish decent- but most are) on the books and reported? Are the owners of the companies paying employee tax or benefits for them? I personally have never asked to see anyones greencard or documents. But having delt with 3 different lawn guys,they all preferred cash. Hmmm?

How about those family owned construction companies? I know for a fact that MANY employees are NOT on the books and work for cash. How many of these workers were picked up in front of a Home Depot as day workers? Once again, no benefits or protection for the worker and no taxes paid to the government.

When you get your nails done and look up on the wall to see the framed licenses..do you see EVERY employees picture on the wall? or is it only a few "regular workers" that you see often in the salon? There always seems to be one or two new girls observing or just learning.. I could almost bet they are not reported.

When you write a post here or one on Craigslist asking for a "handyman" to paint a room,set some tiles or put up sheetrock,etc..have you always recieved an itemized bill and have you asked to see their license and tax ID #..ya know- just to make sure they are reporting this "side job" as legit income and that they pay taxes on these earnings.

When you go to your favorite Italian restaurant or Fav spot in China town..do you think all of the bus boys and line cooks are legit and not working for cash or off the books?

I'm not being harsh here or really pointing fingers..it just got me thinking that if some feel soooooo passionate because their neighbor is getting away with flushing an extra toilet than I challenge you to look to yourself.

Have you ever done the above? Had your lawn cut, some construction done, nails or maybe eye brows..perhaps had your water poured in a restaurant by an illegal immigrant. Well then you are just as guilty as well.

We live in a very overcrowded,diverse,expensive state.
I will never pass judgement on an honest worker because in all these cases I listed above..its the OWNERS that are getting away with the tax evasion and we as patrons are helping them.

I admit I myself am guilty of all these things I listed above. I have no idea if all the construction workers that came to my house 2 yrs ago to pave my property were all legit..I struck up the deal with the owner,not the workers. But 10 guys came daily for 2 weeks..only 2 spoke a few words in english.

I am NOT starting a debate or pointing fingers.. it just simply got me thinking how many times a day we find ourselves in these or similar situations.




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Posted 2/29/08 8:56 AM
 

lilacwine
only love...

Member since 5/05

2034 total posts

Name:
<3

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by GoldenRod

I have never knowingly hired or paid anyone "off the books". I can't ask for working papers for every person who works in every restaurant I go to. I have to go with the assumption that other people are following the law.

I do speed, but I don't believe that I should be allowed to because everyone else does, and if I get caught, I won't argue that what I did was OK because other people do it, or because I can't afford to spend the extra 5 minutes travel time to go the speed limit.

I believe that it's one thing to "bend" the laws a bit, but totally different thinking you should be "allowed" to get away with it just because you want to do it.

I think the apartment debate was more about "needing" to break the law to pay for your house. Nobody "needs" to break the law, or is entitled to break the law, even if "everyone else is doing it".



ITA!

Posted 2/29/08 9:45 AM
 

Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A

Member since 7/05

32475 total posts

Name:
Susan

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by quasi3

I don't think you can say bending the rule a bit is okay, but breaking the law is not.

Are they not the same thing? A law is a law!




I never said it was OK, just different. I agree that I break the law when I speed. I would put money down that there is nobody in the US that never breaks a single law. Some laws contradict each other, so following one law sometimes breaks another. There are so many laws that very few people actually know all the laws, either. My emphasis is on not believing you are *entitled* to break the law just because you want to.



Speeding is breaking the law..renting out an illegal apt is breaking the law. Both come with knowledge and understanding that a law is being broken. Either way, you want to do it.

Posted 2/29/08 9:48 AM
 

jana
LIF Adult

Member since 3/06

1134 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

I wasn't really trying to say that breaking laws or bending them was OK..just that we do it many times a day without even thinking. Sometimes on small levels such as the little examples I gave.

There have been so many posts on how expensive it is to live on LI, how its hard to afford a home. Any given day on parenting you can read a heart wrenching post about a mom who is so torn between being there for her child or going back to work to help DH support her family financially. I just feel that we have to have some compassion for each other in these times. Its not the same America our grandparents or parents worked and raised a family in.
Its so tough for most families to make ends meet.
Honestly, do you think most young couples go into buying a home for its extra illegal rent potential? Who wants to give up or share their living space. I think these ppl are falling on hard times and not taking the extra undeclared $$ to go to Hawaii but rather pay bills. Our country is in such a mess,we are paying out the azz to heat our homes and run our cars and there is nothing we can do about it!
I'm just suggesting that we not be the town police and mind our own business. If someone does decide to rent illegally,or hire a handyman for a sidejob,etc... they take the risk of getting caught.. its THEIR risk.

Really I hope we could have a civil discussion,believe me I am not advocating any side because like I said, I see the pro's and con's. I'm just hoping we have tolerance towards each other as if I would comfort my best friend if she had to rent out her basement in order to provide for her family. Because no matter what the nay'ers say...if it was your family member,you'd turn a blind eye.

Posted 2/29/08 10:11 AM
 

jana
LIF Adult

Member since 3/06

1134 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

One last thing..I really don't know why this topic has touched me so.
I cannot even reply on the original post of renting illegally.

I come from immigrant parents who did well for themselves and I just feel as if "the american dream" is not alive anymore. So sad Chat Icon

Posted 2/29/08 10:15 AM
 

quasi3
LIF Adult

Member since 7/07

1764 total posts

Name:
Stacey

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

AGREED

Posted 2/29/08 10:30 AM
 

TheWhiteRabbit
Thru the rabbit hole!

Member since 7/06

4412 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Bravo!

May I add, since I am a tax accountant, that 90% of people LIE/CHEAT on their taxes. Did you REALLY donate all that $$ to charity?? Did you add back your STAR rebate? I could go on for an hour...

The point is, I don’t care if someone has an illegal apartment, just like I don’t care if you speed or cheat on your taxes – you need to look at yourself everyday and live with your actions.

You know, the whole 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' Chat Icon

Message edited 2/29/2008 1:33:45 PM.

Posted 2/29/08 10:51 AM
 

architectnycity
LIF Adult

Member since 1/06

2592 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by jana


Honestly, do you think most young couples go into buying a home for its extra illegal rent potential? Who wants to give up or share their living space. I think these ppl are falling on hard times and not taking the extra undeclared there is nothing we can do about it!



A lot of people do go into buying a house they can't really afford because they are counting on money an illegal rental can bring in. Many houses we looked at we were shown where we could put in an extra kitchen or where there was already and apt.

Posted 2/29/08 11:11 AM
 

Andys-Bride
LIF Infant

Member since 3/07

154 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

I really don't see the comparison. Although I don't have my lawn cut by anyone other than DH, he is my handyman and yes we do go out to eat. I think it is the responsibility of making sure that a worker is documented falls on the employer. And yes, I believe they will get into problems if they are breaking the law. And if I knew for sure that a particluar restaurant or store was hiring illegal workers than I probaly would have a problem going there. That said I would not turn in the restaurant if I had a suspicion (how would I actually know if someone was not supposed to be working?) just as I probably wouldn't call in on someone who has an illegal apartment.
I DO make sure that the person working on my nails has a license.


I happen to have a LEGAL apartment, what you choose to do is your business but to justify having an illegal apartment because "everyone else is doing it" is just ridiculous in my opinion.

Posted 2/29/08 12:19 PM
 

ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road

Member since 12/07

6153 total posts

Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by Andys-Bride

I really don't see the comparison. Although I don't have my lawn cut by anyone other than DH, he is my handyman and yes we do go out to eat. I think it is the responsibility of making sure that a worker is documented falls on the employer.

I happen to have a LEGAL apartment, what you choose to do is your business but to justify having an illegal apartment because "everyone else is doing it" is just ridiculous in my opinion.




Agreed totally. The loss of property tax bothers me way more than the loss of income tax too since we all know the property tax goes directly to the town.

This is the same thing I said a few days ago. People feel they are entitled to break the law because "everyone else is doing it".

Hey if it makes you feel better that you can break the law because "everyone else is doing it", then knock yourself out.

Just be aware that for every person that has an illegal apartment, there are people out there getting slammed with yearly 6% tax increases because the towns are losing money from this lost rental income.

Posted 2/29/08 12:27 PM
 

DRMom
Two in Blue

Member since 5/05

20223 total posts

Name:
Melissa

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by jana

I wasn't really trying to say that breaking laws or bending them was OK..just that we do it many times a day without even thinking. Sometimes on small levels such as the little examples I gave.

There have been so many posts on how expensive it is to live on LI, how its hard to afford a home. Any given day on parenting you can read a heart wrenching post about a mom who is so torn between being there for her child or going back to work to help DH support her family financially. I just feel that we have to have some compassion for each other in these times. Its not the same America our grandparents or parents worked and raised a family in.
Its so tough for most families to make ends meet.
Honestly, do you think most young couples go into buying a home for its extra illegal rent potential? Who wants to give up or share their living space. I think these ppl are falling on hard times and not taking the extra undeclared $$ to go to Hawaii but rather pay bills. Our country is in such a mess,we are paying out the azz to heat our homes and run our cars and there is nothing we can do about it!
I'm just suggesting that we not be the town police and mind our own business. If someone does decide to rent illegally,or hire a handyman for a sidejob,etc... they take the risk of getting caught.. its THEIR risk.

Really I hope we could have a civil discussion,believe me I am not advocating any side because like I said, I see the pro's and con's. I'm just hoping we have tolerance towards each other as if I would comfort my best friend if she had to rent out her basement in order to provide for her family. Because no matter what the nay'ers say...if it was your family member,you'd turn a blind eye.



ITA. I've never been worried about what the Joneses are doing. I totally agree that we should all be more compassionate and less judgemental.

Posted 2/29/08 12:28 PM
 

Andys-Bride
LIF Infant

Member since 3/07

154 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by melijane

I totally agree that we should all be more compassionate and less judgemental.



I think it's just a matter of the fact that life is not black and white. I don't think people are being judgemental, they just have strong opinions.

Some people might say that stealing is wrong no matter what.

Another person might justify that they couldn't afford something, so they stole.

Yet another might say if I don't steal this (food, medicine, etc) then someone might die.

And the fact is that each of these scenarios that particular person sees their own situation in black and white terms. I don't think there is a right and wrong answer that applies to all people. Everyone sees things in their own way. I have friends/family with illegal apartments, that is their choice. Everyone has different degrees of what is the right thing to do. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to feel passionately about their position.

Posted 2/29/08 12:53 PM
 

Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A

Member since 7/05

32475 total posts

Name:
Susan

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

there so many reason our property taxes are high. A lot of his has to do with how downstate funds upstate.

Not saying that illegal apartments don't put a strain on some municpalities, it's not the biggest problem we face on LI. Our taxes are high for many reasons..

Posted 2/29/08 4:50 PM
 

SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!

Member since 3/06

32345 total posts

Name:

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

it is VERY obvious to me that the reason property taxes on LI are so high is b/c we get very little Fed funding and corruption! look it up on newsday.com Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 2/29/08 8:26 PM
 

pharmcat2000
Mom of 2 + 1

Member since 10/05

7395 total posts

Name:
Catherine

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

Posted by architectnycity

Posted by jana


Honestly, do you think most young couples go into buying a home for its extra illegal rent potential? Who wants to give up or share their living space. I think these ppl are falling on hard times and not taking the extra undeclared there is nothing we can do about it!



A lot of people do go into buying a house they can't really afford because they are counting on money an illegal rental can bring in.




I have to disagree with this. I don't think people use it to be able to buy a bigger house, I think they use it to buy A house. And most dream of the day when their income catches up to the price of the house so that they can have their whole house to themselves.

Posted 3/1/08 4:10 AM
 

browneyedgirl
family is all that matters

Member since 6/06

6513 total posts

Name:
browneyes

Re: Spinoff: All this illegal apartment talk got me thinking..

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Posted 3/1/08 1:46 PM
 
 

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