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Speaking of racial profiling...

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brownie
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Speaking of racial profiling...

Immigration Bill Reflects a Firebrand’s Impact
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
Published: April 19, 2010


PHOENIX — The Arizona Senate passed one of the most stringent immigration laws in the country on Monday, marking a new level of influence for a Republican state senator who not long ago was seen by many as an eccentric firebrand.


The bill’s author, State Senator Russell Pearce, in foreground, says it is necessary because the federal government has failed to act.

Immigration advocates want the governor to block the bill.
Passage of the law, which would, among other things, allow the authorities to demand proof of legal entry into the United States from anyone suspected of being in the country illegally, testified to the relative lack of political power of Arizona Latinos, and to the hardened views toward illegal immigration among Republican politicians both here and nationally.

As if to underscore how the political landscape will be changed by the law, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who had refused to back the most extreme anti-immigration measures, came out in support of it just hours before its passage.

“I think it is a good tool,” said Mr. McCain, who is being challenged in a primary by a conservative former congressman who is thumping him on immigration. Mr. McCain added that he believed the bill reflected frustration that the federal government had not done enough to secure the border and enforce immigration law.

The state senator who wrote the law, Russell Pearce, had long been considered a politically incorrect embarrassment by more moderate members of his party — often to the delight of his supporters. There was the time in 2007 when he appeared in a widely circulated photograph with a man who was a featured speaker at a neo-Nazi conference. (Mr. Pearce said later he did not know of the man’s affiliation with the group.)

In 2006, he came under fire for speaking admirably of a 1950s federal deportation program called Operation Wetback, and for sending an e-mail message to supporters that included an attachment — inadvertently, he said — from a white supremacist group.

But Mr. Pearce, 62, cannot be dismissed as just the party’s right-wing fringe. As chairman of the Senate’s appropriation committee, he controls whose bills are financed, and he has shown an uncanny knack to capitalize on this border state’s immigration anxiety.

While surveys show immigration is less of a hot-button issue than it was a few years ago, Republican conservatives still care about the issue. In a New York Times/CBS News poll released last week, 82 percent of self-identified Tea Party supporters said illegal immigration was a “very serious” problem.

The nightly news here is filled with stories of raids on drop houses filled with immigrants and drug-related shootouts and home invasions. Mexico’s drug violence has bloodied Nogales, Sonora, across the border from Nogales, Ariz. And just a couple of weeks ago, a southern Arizona rancher was killed on his property by someone the police suspect was involved in smuggling.

“Senator Pearce is the one to articulate things and take bullets and arrows,” said Stan Barnes, a former Republican legislator and political consultant who has supported Mr. Pearce. The issue, he said, “has electrified and energized a great many Arizonans.”

More than a few Democrats took notice that Mr. Pearce, whose district is in Mesa, a Phoenix suburb, managed to win unanimous support for the bill from House Republicans, even from some moderates who had voiced misgivings about it.

One of those moderates, State Representative Bill Konopnicki, Republican of Yuma, said planned amendments to address legal and other concerns never materialized. In the end, he said, “everybody was afraid to vote no on immigration.”

“We are going to look like Alabama in the ’60s,” said Mr. Konopnicki, who is facing a tough election and did not believe voting no would change the outcome..

In the Senate, only one Republican, Carolyn S. Allen, voted against the bill, and she is one of the few leaving office because of term limits and not seeking another post. She did not respond to a message left at her office.

The bill makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers, requires the police “when practicable” to check the immigration status of people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally and allows people to sue cities and counties if the law is not being enforced.

Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican who, like Mr. McCain, is facing primary challengers from the right, is widely expected to sign the bill, though her spokesman said she would not comment.

That the bill has gotten this far has angered advocates for immigrants, who have staged protests and sent a stream of postcards to the governor urging her to veto it.

But analysts said its legislative success may be another sign that, while the Latino population is growing here, a large number of Latinos are under age or are not citizens and so are less powerful than those in California, New Mexico or Texas.

“Right now, there are supporters of the bill who are thinking, We don’t need that vote,” said Rodolfo Espino, a political science professor at Arizona State University who studies ethnic voting trends. “With a low Hispanic voter turnout, they are not going to be made to pay a price for this.”

State Representative Ben Miranda, a Democrat and co-chairman of the legislature’s Latino caucus, agreed. In other border states, Mr. Miranda said, “there is much more political clout in the Latino community.” And Arizona feels the effects of immigration more acutely, as the state with the most arrests for illegal crossing and drug trafficking across the border.

“Arizona is the funnel to the United States,” he said. “It’s not California. It’s not Texas. It’s not New Mexico. People are in hysteria here. It is totally different.”

People on both sides of the debate see the bill as a result of the failure of Congress to overhaul the immigration system, and predict that other states, as they have in the past, will be inspired by Arizona to consider similar legislation.

Mr. Pearce, who did not return a telephone call, has said he is on a mission to rid the state of illegal immigrants and discourage others from coming.

Mr. Miranda and others wonder whether Mr. Pearce’s personal experience motivates him: his son, a Maricopa County sheriff’s deputy, was shot and wounded in 2004 by an illegal immigrant and Mr. Pearce, a former sheriff’s deputy, was shot and wounded while arresting gang members 20 years ago, he has said.

But on the floor of the Senate, which approved the bill 17 to 11, Mr. Pearce said he pushed the bill because the federal government had not done enough.

“This law is not about race,” he said. “It’s about what is illegal.”

Message edited 4/28/2010 3:13:17 PM.

Posted 4/28/10 3:09 PM
 
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Ophelia
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

this bill is the most disgusting piece of **** legislations EVER.

I am sitting here thinking about what I would do if I lived still in Arizona.

what kind of whoop assss I'd open up on someone if they DARED ask me or my family for our PAPERS.

we have marched our way into Nazi Germany.

it's disgusting. DISGUSSTING...

and now...a funny

I LUURRVVEEE HIM!

Posted 4/28/10 3:17 PM
 

Pray4Baby2010
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

sounds like a witch hunt to me!

Posted 4/28/10 3:31 PM
 

quasi3
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

I believe there is problem in our country with illegals, but I don't think this is the answer.

Something does need to be done.

Posted 4/28/10 3:38 PM
 

DancinBarefoot
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

The bill will lead to racial profiling and serious abuses. However, IMHO, it will never pass consititutional muster, and is in many ways a political move by the state of Arizona to attempt to force the federal government to act.

Posted 4/28/10 4:48 PM
 

annoyedTTCer
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Maybe this bill will get the feds to get off their asses and get to work dealing with this problem.

And by dealing with it I don't mean amnesty for people that can't respect our laws

Posted 4/28/10 5:21 PM
 

headoverheels
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

I think that what a lot of people fail to understand is how incredibly dangerous it is for the officers who protect the border in Arizona. They are constantly in fear for their lives both of illegal immigrants and drug traffickers, some of whom are attempting to do both. People KILL OFFICERS just to be able to come to live in the US. This bill is meant to serve as a deterrent against people coming into the US illegally, which they most often do through AZ and Texas.

This article is obviously slanted against the senator who wrote this bill and is NOT focusing on the most important piece:

Posted by brownie

The bill makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers, requires the police “when practicable” to check the immigration status of people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally and allows people to sue cities and counties if the law is not being enforced.




What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.

Message edited 4/28/2010 6:01:54 PM.

Posted 4/28/10 6:00 PM
 

headoverheels
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by annoyedTTCer

Maybe this bill will get the feds to get off their asses and get to work dealing with this problem.

And by dealing with it I don't mean amnesty for people that can't respect our laws




Lord, I cannot believe I am agreeing with you Chat Icon but yes, exactly.

Posted 4/28/10 6:02 PM
 

brownie
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by quasi3

I believe there is problem in our country with illegals, but I don't think this is the answer.

Something does need to be done.



ITA

Posted 4/28/10 6:10 PM
 

rojerono
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

i want to understand this.. I really do. I get that this makes immigrants responsible for proving that they are here legally.. But it sure sounds like they are giving free reign to enforcement officials to ask pretty much anyone who looks like they might not be here legally to submit to questioning.. is that right? So let's say my (very legal) Mexican friend is visiting Arizona - does that mean that just because she's obviously not a straight up Caucasian that they can stop and question her and ask her to prove that she's here legitimately? And if she happens to not have her wallet on her because she left it home or someone snatched it.. she can be detained?

I guess what I'm curious to know is.. what guidelines are they proposing to prevent the harassment of those that are here legally?



Posted 4/28/10 6:25 PM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by headoverheels

I think that what a lot of people fail to understand is how incredibly dangerous it is for the officers who protect the border in Arizona. They are constantly in fear for their lives both of illegal immigrants and drug traffickers, some of whom are attempting to do both. People KILL OFFICERS just to be able to come to live in the US. This bill is meant to serve as a deterrent against people coming into the US illegally, which they most often do through AZ and Texas.

This article is obviously slanted against the senator who wrote this bill and is NOT focusing on the most important piece:

Posted by brownie

The bill makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers, requires the police “when practicable” to check the immigration status of people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally and allows people to sue cities and counties if the law is not being enforced.




What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.



ITA! If you are legal resident alien you are required by federal law to carry your green card with you. The law in AZ clearly states that you can only be asked to prove your citizenship if you are already in situation with the police. The police can't just walk into a diner and ask the dishwashers/bus boys for their papers.

Phoenix AZ is the kidnap capital of the US. On average every 35 hours someone is kipnapped there. A rancher was just recently shot dead on his property by illegals. Az is in serious trouble with illegal immigration. There are over 400K illegals in the state alone. This causes a financial burden on the school systems, the hospitals and other state agencies. The law may not be perfect but I think the governor is sending a message that something needs to be done. It is only reinforcing federal law. If you come here illegally you should be deported. It is unfair to those who wait and do it the correct way for all these illegals to get amnesty.

Please don't say that I am a racist for saying these things when my husband is an immigrant, who came to this country legally and didn't even speak English and is now very successful. Just because you don't agree with amnesty doesn't make you a racist.

Posted 4/28/10 6:52 PM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by rojerono

i want to understand this.. I really do. I get that this makes immigrants responsible for proving that they are here legally.. But it sure sounds like they are giving free reign to enforcement officials to ask pretty much anyone who looks like they might not be here legally to submit to questioning.. is that right? So let's say my (very legal) Mexican friend is visiting Arizona - does that mean that just because she's obviously not a straight up Caucasian that they can stop and question her and ask her to prove that she's here legitimately? And if she happens to not have her wallet on her because she left it home or someone snatched it.. she can be detained?

I guess what I'm curious to know is.. what guidelines are they proposing to prevent the harassment of those that are here legally?


According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.



Posted 4/28/10 6:54 PM
 

rileysmama
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Not sure if it is true (and not justifying any illegal entering), but I've read that a lot of them want to take English classes & get their paperwork done, etc, but the gov't is so backlogged & classes are constantly filled...basically, that it isn't an easy process.

I'm still not sure how I feel about this whole issue...in one way, I feel bad..I feel if you want to come here, you should, and diversity is awesome and benefits us all...and on the other, I hate pressing 2 for English and feel if I'm paying taxes, you should, too.

Message edited 4/28/2010 6:55:48 PM.

Posted 4/28/10 6:55 PM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by rileysmama


I hate pressing 2 for English and feel if I'm paying taxes, you should, too.




This doesn't bother me at all. I try to look at it in a way that when I am travelling abroad I am thankful for those that speak English or they have signs in both the native language and English.

Posted 4/28/10 6:57 PM
 

rileysmama
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by rileysmama


I hate pressing 2 for English and feel if I'm paying taxes, you should, too.




This doesn't bother me at all. I try to look at it in a way that when I am travelling abroad I am thankful for those that speak English or they have signs in both the native language and English.



good point..I didn't think in those terms.Chat Icon

Posted 4/28/10 7:01 PM
 

itkocak

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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Message edited 11/28/2011 3:28:42 PM.

Posted 4/28/10 7:27 PM
 

rojerono
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by mommy2Alex

According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.





If that's the case.. I don't see what the issue is. If you are being questioned by the police for some reason you should expect to show something that indicates who you are - I'd be expected to show my license - so what's the issue with showing papers documenting your status?

Posted 4/28/10 7:28 PM
 

brownie
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

(From NPR)

Will Arizona's Immigration Law Pass Legal Muster?
by ALAN GREENBLATT



Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed a controversial bill Friday that makes it a crime for illegal immigrants to be in the state. The new law will require local police to seek proof of immigration status if there is reason to suspect individuals are illegal immigrants.

Earlier Friday, President Obama had criticized the bill as "misguided." He said that the federal government's failure to overhaul immigration law had been an invitation for other jurisdictions to act "irresponsibly." Now that Brewer has signed the bill into law, however, the question is whether it can survive inevitable legal challenges.

Both supporters and critics of the Arizona measure — one of hundreds of other state laws enacted in recent years that were designed to crack down on illegal immigrants — agreed that the law indeed was born out of frustration at Washington's inability to grapple with the problem.

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," said Brewer, a Republican facing a tough re-election challenge. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created a dangerous and unacceptable situation."

How are police going to enforce this? They're not going to ask whites.


Soon after Brewer signed the bill into law, the Mexican American Legal Defense & Educational Defense Fund issued a press release saying it would challenge the law.

"Time and time again, courts have determined and made it very clear that the ability to regulate and enforce immigration is exclusively in the federal domain," says Karen Tumlin, managing attorney for the National Immigration Law Center. "This law violated the federal space by very clearly trying to regulate and enforce immigration law."

Not everyone is so sure that legal challenges will be a slam-dunk, however.

Benjamin E. Johnson, executive director of the American Immigration Council, opposes the law but says the question of whether it is "unconstitutional on its face is unclear."

States must leave most immigration matters to Washington. They can't decide who is allowed to enter at the border, for instance. But whether the new law oversteps state authority is "a difficult question to answer," Johnson says.

Could Lead To Violations

This is model legislation for most other states, and it will certainly pass the legal litmus test.
- Bob Dane of the Federation for American Immigration Reform
An easier question, in his mind, is whether the law will lead to constitutional violations, such as unlawful searches and seizures or discrimination based on protected characteristics such as race or ethnicity.

"That seems to me the much greater risk," Johnson says.

The law requires noncitizens in Arizona to carry their immigration paperwork with them at all times. That clearly would be an example of the state intruding into exclusively federal domains of enforcement and regulation, Tumlin argues, and will inevitably lead to racial profiling.

"How are police going to enforce this?" she asks. "They're not going to ask whites."

President Obama has directed the Justice Department to be mindful of civil rights violations stemming from the new law.

'Model Legislation'

But Bob Dane, press secretary for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which supports tighter immigration restrictions, says the new law was a "common sense" reaction to the costs associated with illegal immigration that have fallen on the border state.

"This is model legislation for most other states, and it will certainly pass the legal litmus test," he says. "The argument has been made that immigration enforcement is the exclusive domain of the federal government and that states are unable to act. In fact, that's been proven otherwise, and we're seeing that federal pre-emption does not preclude meaningful participation by states and localities."


The part that describes possibly leading to violations is what I'm concerned about

Posted 4/28/10 8:04 PM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by rojerono

Posted by mommy2Alex

According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.





If that's the case.. I don't see what the issue is. If you are being questioned by the police for some reason you should expect to show something that indicates who you are - I'd be expected to show my license - so what's the issue with showing papers documenting your status?



I don't know what the issue is really. I believe the law also states that they must have reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally.

Posted 4/28/10 8:11 PM
 

brownie
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by rojerono

Posted by mommy2Alex

According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.





If that's the case.. I don't see what the issue is. If you are being questioned by the police for some reason you should expect to show something that indicates who you are - I'd be expected to show my license - so what's the issue with showing papers documenting your status?



I don't know what the issue is really. I believe the law also states that they must have reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally.



which could easily translate into not being white

Posted 4/28/10 8:15 PM
 

rojerono
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by rojerono

Posted by mommy2Alex

According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.





If that's the case.. I don't see what the issue is. If you are being questioned by the police for some reason you should expect to show something that indicates who you are - I'd be expected to show my license - so what's the issue with showing papers documenting your status?



I don't know what the issue is really. I believe the law also states that they must have reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally.



So.. it's what I thought initially then? That any non-white person is subject to harassment and questioning based solely on the way they look? Because if THAT is the case I cry Bullsh*t. If the police are given carte blanche to screw with people based on reasonable suspicion ("They LOOKED like they might be from Mexico") - then it's insane.

Posted 4/28/10 9:03 PM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by rojerono

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by rojerono

Posted by mommy2Alex

According to the law you have to be in situation involving the police already. They can't just walk up to you on the street if you are speaking Spanish and ask you for your papers.





If that's the case.. I don't see what the issue is. If you are being questioned by the police for some reason you should expect to show something that indicates who you are - I'd be expected to show my license - so what's the issue with showing papers documenting your status?



I don't know what the issue is really. I believe the law also states that they must have reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally.



So.. it's what I thought initially then? That any non-white person is subject to harassment and questioning based solely on the way they look? Because if THAT is the case I cry Bullsh*t. If the police are given carte blanche to screw with people based on reasonable suspicion ("They LOOKED like they might be from Mexico") - then it's insane.



It is both, they have to be in a situation with the police and they must have reasonable suspiscion that the person is here illegally. They can't just be eating in a diner and ask a person who appears to be hispanic or talking Spanish to prove they are a US citizen or legal alien. I also believe there is specific language in the bill stating that this law does not give the police free reign to enforce this law using racial profiling. I hope that racial profiling will not occur but you are suspected of a crime or are breaking some law, I see no problems with having to provide proof of ciitizenship or that you are a legal alien.

Posted 4/28/10 9:11 PM
 

LSP2005
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

I think most people can agree that the violence in Arizona is extremely sad/horrific and that something must be done about it. With that said, I am not sure that this law is the best way to combat this issue. The problem I see is that it feels like what the Nazi's did to the Jews in Europe. When ever I hear the phrase "show me your papers" it sends chills up and down my spine.

From reading newspaper articles it seems as if an AZ police officer must have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to take place, and can demand "papers" of someone in the area who may look like the suspect. My fear is that since crime is considered rampant in AZ and anyone who appears Mexican/Hispanic could "potentially" be a suspect from a case that the officer can then demand papers. Once the person cannot provide the papers they are sent to jail or deported. I think that in actual practice there is such a slippery slope with this law and crossing the line between active investigation and racial profiling will inevitably happen. Chat Icon

I feel for the police and the AZ legislators. They are in a difficult position when it comes to combating crime. With that said, I don't believe this law is the best way to combat the issues they are facing. As expensive as it is, they need more police officers. They need better border enforcement. They need to find the sources of funding for the criminal activities and eradicate them.

Posted 4/28/10 11:31 PM
 

maybesoon
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by headoverheels

I think that what a lot of people fail to understand is how incredibly dangerous it is for the officers who protect the border in Arizona. They are constantly in fear for their lives both of illegal immigrants and drug traffickers, some of whom are attempting to do both. People KILL OFFICERS just to be able to come to live in the US. This bill is meant to serve as a deterrent against people coming into the US illegally, which they most often do through AZ and Texas.




I had a different opinion until I saw this very valid point you make. maybe there is no other choiceChat Icon

I also don't see why people compare this to Germany?

Message edited 4/29/2010 10:27:36 AM.

Posted 4/29/10 10:26 AM
 

mommy2Alex
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Re: Speaking of racial profiling...

Posted by maybesoon

Posted by headoverheels


I also don't see why people compare this to Germany?



Me either.Chat Icon The Jewish people of Germany were citizens who were discriminated against. Here we are talking about illegal immigrants.

Posted 4/29/10 11:34 AM
 
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