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nicrae
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Member since 12/06 9289 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by nicrae
Again my point is what law was broken if a boat of that size does not have a maximum capacity?
Common sense and the law do not always equate.
I'm not sure you need a law on max capacity, to have a manslaughter charge or a negligent homicide charge.
It's bothering me that I can't find the penal code but this is on the NYS Penal Code webstie:
http://www.nycourts.gov/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125-10.pdf
Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminally Negligent Homicide when, with criminal negligence, that person causes the
death of another person.
The term "criminal negligence" used in this definition has its
own special meaning in our law. I will now give you the meaning
of that term:
A person acts with CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE with respect to a death when that person engages in blameworthy conduct so serious
that it creates or contributes to a substantial and
unjustifiable risk that another person's death will occur,
and when he or she fails to perceive that risk,
and when the risk is of such nature and degree that failure
to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the
standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in
the situation.
I'm wondering how does vehicular homicide tie in? After all a boat is considered a motor vehicle, no?
Thank you for that.
I don't know if a boat is considered a motor vehicle. You would think if it was you'd need a licence to drive one but you don't.
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Posted 7/12/12 11:44 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Is there a law about having life jackets for everyone on the boat?
Posted by Ophelia
S 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.
A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.
Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.
With this information you still feel he shouldn't be charged?
Message edited 7/12/2012 11:49:22 AM.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:46 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by tarabelle99
Well, I think every person who thought stuffing 27 people on that boat should be tarred and feathered, then publicly stoned but that is my personal opinion on them all. There were a bunch of really stupid people on that boat, no doubt, because anyone with one iota of common sense would have told you when you got on the boat it was a wee bit too crowded.
Yup, I'm going to say it. If I were in that situation, before this whole story came out, I can't say with certainty that I would not have gotten on that boat. I don't know if I would have been the 1 person to speak up and say that it was too crowded. I just don't know.
It's so easy to speak up with such complete disgust now, after the fact, after you have seen what happened. I know what I would do today, after this story. But I can't tell you what I would have done if I were one of those people.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:46 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by nicrae
I don't know if a boat is considered a motor vehicle. You would think if it was you'd need a licence to drive one but you don't.
I think if anything, it is obvious that boating regulations need to be revamped. Right now, any bozo can buy a boat, throw it in the water and go. No training, no ability, no knowledge of the seas or waterways, the rules or safety issues.
That needs to change.
Maybe they need to extend Captain's licensing regulations down to pleasure crafts over 20 ft?
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:48 AM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
I'm not a lawyer, so I'm curious to know if Maritime Law plays any role in this and how does that work with County & State laws?
Message edited 7/12/2012 11:49:55 AM.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:49 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:50 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by jerseypanda
Posted by tarabelle99
Well, I think every person who thought stuffing 27 people on that boat should be tarred and feathered, then publicly stoned but that is my personal opinion on them all. There were a bunch of really stupid people on that boat, no doubt, because anyone with one iota of common sense would have told you when you got on the boat it was a wee bit too crowded.
Yup, I'm going to say it. If I were in that situation, before this whole story came out, I can't say with certainty that I would not have gotten on that boat. I don't know if I would have been the 1 person to speak up and say that it was too crowded. I just don't know.
It's so easy to speak up with such complete disgust now, after the fact, after you have seen what happened. I know what I would do today, after this story. But I can't tell you what I would have done if I were one of those people.
Which is why I added the line about the captain having scruples. I can't guarantee that no one said anything to the captain either, but those conditions had to be tight. The back of that boat doesn't look like it could handle more than 6-8 people comfortably, never mind 26. The hull? Maybe you could get 4 people on it. Maybe a few down below. The captain should have ultimate responsibility for the boat. HE should have known that it was overcrowded. HE is responsible for those deaths, primarily and ultimately, as is the boat owner. But that doesn't mean that after the fact I can't give all the other people the side eye.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:52 AM |
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nicrae
He's here!
Member since 12/06 9289 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by tarabelle99
Posted by nicrae
I understand what you are saying. I do. I guess my point is that everyone is calling for the captain to hang but what if no law was broken? That's my point. If he broke the law then yes I agree that he should be punished, however I have been writing with the mind set that there wasn't a law to break.
Well, I think every person who thought stuffing 27 people on that boat should be tarred and feathered, then publicly stoned but that is my personal opinion on them all. There were a bunch of really stupid people on that boat, no doubt, because anyone with one iota of common sense would have told you when you got on the boat it was a wee bit too crowded.
See and again we agree on this. I don't think it was just the Captain that was at fault but also all those people that chose to get on that boat.
If I saw how many people were on that boat and got on with my children then I think I would have been partially to blame as well if something happened to them whether I was familiar with boating or not. I just don't see how it falls upon one person.
Before anyone freaks I understand that the captain is ultimately responsible however "I" don't think that it is solely his fault. People made the choice to get on that boat.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:54 AM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them. 
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:55 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
The 3 kids were 8, 11 and 12. They were confined to the cabin. They couldn't fall off the boat from in there. I'm sure the parents thought of all the places on the boat, they were the safest in there. And the parents were right outside the cabin. That is what breaks my heart even more.
Right now I have an almost 5 year old and a 2 1/2 year old. I am on top of them constantly. But who knows how much of a leash I will give them in 3 years? I'm sure my DS will have more freedoms when he is 8. Right now he gets up in the morning, goes downstairs by himself and can make himself a peanut butter sandwich before I even know he's out of bed. I don't think it's out of the realm of normal for those 3 kids to be in the cabin without an adult.
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| Posted 7/12/12 11:55 AM |
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KristenRSF
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/10 487 total posts
Name:
Kris
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
27 people fit where? This picture gives a ton of perspective on how overcrowded that boat was.
Image Attachment(s):
Message edited 7/12/2012 12:02:15 PM.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:01 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by nicrae
Posted by tarabelle99
Posted by nicrae
I understand what you are saying. I do. I guess my point is that everyone is calling for the captain to hang but what if no law was broken? That's my point. If he broke the law then yes I agree that he should be punished, however I have been writing with the mind set that there wasn't a law to break.
Well, I think every person who thought stuffing 27 people on that boat should be tarred and feathered, then publicly stoned but that is my personal opinion on them all. There were a bunch of really stupid people on that boat, no doubt, because anyone with one iota of common sense would have told you when you got on the boat it was a wee bit too crowded.
See and again we agree on this. I don't think it was just the Captain that was at fault but also all those people that chose to get on that boat.
If I saw how many people were on that boat and got on with my children then I think I would have been partially to blame as well if something happened to them whether I was familiar with boating or not. I just don't see how it falls upon one person.
Before anyone freaks I understand that the captain is ultimately responsible however "I" don't think that it is solely his fault. People made the choice to get on that boat.
On the flipside, if those people voiced concern to the captain and/or owner about capacity and were told it was fine, then are they still at fault?
Probably not because you'd believe the captain/owner would know what they were doing and would know their vessel. Which is why ultimately, they're the liable parties.
But I'll still give them all the side eye.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:01 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them.
so here is where I am weird but the fact that they died alone bothers me the most.
I didn't grow up on boats or with boats so that probably has a lot to do with it, but I cannot be on a boat and not have the kids near me. I can't.
I guess I should be more open to the idea that people who have boats and who grew up with them are more comfortable with the idea but it is something that terrifies me...I love the water. I love the idea of boats but I am never at ease in or around them when I have someone else to protect.
that is my deal obviously but also why I feel this way.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:06 PM |
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Marcie
Complete Happiness :)
Member since 5/05 27789 total posts
Name:
LOVE being a Mommy!
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by KristenRSF
27 people fit where? This picture gives a ton of perspective on how overcrowded that boat was.
I am not agruing with you in any way...cause I think you already know how I feel about this, but I believe alot of those people were on the bow of that boat, you see it ALL the time with these types of boats.
So with the weight displacement on the bow, the back deck and the top heavy fly bridge, that boat was very unsteady...and hitting ANY type of 'wave' and not having complete control of that boat...it was bound to happen.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:19 PM |
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nicrae
He's here!
Member since 12/06 9289 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them.
so here is where I am weird but the fact that they died alone bothers me the most.
I didn't grow up on boats or with boats so that probably has a lot to do with it, but I cannot be on a boat and not have the kids near me. I can't.
I guess I should be more open to the idea that people who have boats and who grew up with them are more comfortable with the idea but it is something that terrifies me...I love the water. I love the idea of boats but I am never at ease in or around them when I have someone else to protect.
that is my deal obviously but also why I feel this way.
It makes total sense why you feel that way.
I grew up on boats and even now I refuse to take my 4 year old and my 2 year old out on my parent's 44 foot boat. They've been on it but we never left the dock and still I was a nervous wreck. I won't do that to myself again. When they are older yes I wouldn't have a problem with it but at their ages now I am just not comfortable with it.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:19 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them.
so here is where I am weird but the fact that they died alone bothers me the most.
I didn't grow up on boats or with boats so that probably has a lot to do with it, but I cannot be on a boat and not have the kids near me. I can't.
I guess I should be more open to the idea that people who have boats and who grew up with them are more comfortable with the idea but it is something that terrifies me...I love the water. I love the idea of boats but I am never at ease in or around them when I have someone else to protect.
that is my deal obviously but also why I feel this way.
It makes total sense why you feel that way.
I grew up on boats and even now I refuse to take my 4 year old and my 2 year old out on my parent's 44 foot boat. They've been on it but we never left the dock and still I was a nervous wreck. I won't do that to myself again. When they are older yes I wouldn't have a problem with it but at their ages now I am just not comfortable with it.
I get it too.
I won't even take my kids on the commercial boats out onto the ocean until they're I think they're old enough to be able to tread water if there is an incident.
I have let them on my parent's boat on the channel/lake they live on, but their boat is small (speedboat) and it is mostly sailboats and plenty of people around them, during the day in calm weather. They wore life jackets the whole time.
And I was a nervous wreck still.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:23 PM |
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KristenRSF
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/10 487 total posts
Name:
Kris
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
That's just it. Nobody should have been on the bow of the boat at 10pm while it was moving. Not an adult, not a child, nobody.
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| Posted 7/12/12 12:43 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them.
so here is where I am weird but the fact that they died alone bothers me the most.
I didn't grow up on boats or with boats so that probably has a lot to do with it, but I cannot be on a boat and not have the kids near me. I can't.
I guess I should be more open to the idea that people who have boats and who grew up with them are more comfortable with the idea but it is something that terrifies me...I love the water. I love the idea of boats but I am never at ease in or around them when I have someone else to protect.
that is my deal obviously but also why I feel this way.
I tend to agree with this.
I like to think of myself as a very laid back, go with the flow kind of person.
When it comes to CERTAIN things.
DD not eating enough protein? OK she'll survive. Her eating cookies for dinner one night- no biggie. Binky until 3? Yeah she won't be emotionally damaged from this.
But when it comes to things like this... I am ULTRA paranoid.
Driving in the car. Walking with her in the stroller- all of those things set my mind racing to the what ifs. And sometimes I think I am not normal. That these thoughts are not healthy. But I can't help it... my mind goes to bad places WAY too quickly.
And to be honest- it is only since I became a mom.
I am shocked at how I have changed. How my emotions and feelings have done a complete 180.
I agree that I could never leave her alone if we were on a boat. And yes, I know she is a lot younger than those kids were. But I dont' see my feelings changing even when she hits 5, 6, 7 8 years old.
But again, that is just me.
And hindsight is always 20/20,
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| Posted 7/12/12 1:07 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
So, I did some quick googling to see if there's precedence for criminal negligence charges against the owner/captain for the overcrowding, and lo and behold, there is. Kind of. In 2005, a boat called the Ethan Allen(a commercial 40 ft vessel with rows of benches for passengers) carrrying 47 people (less than the # it was certified to carry) capsized on Lake George, killing 20 people in similar fashion (turning/hit by wake). Technically, the boat was over capacity but had been recertified by the USCG/State for 50 people. The issue was ultimately blamed by the NTSB on the certifying agency(ies) who didn't take modifications into account and the correct certification for the vessel should have been 14. They charged the captain with misdemeanor criminal negligence and he plead guilty.
So, if the State of NY via a grand jury will bring charges against a captain for capsizing a boat that was repeatedly recertified to carry 50 for being overloaded with 47 passengers plus 1 cres, I do believe that this is where they want to be headed with this tragedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Allen_boating_accident
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| Posted 7/12/12 1:25 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by nicrae
There is not a plaque on my parent's sailboat nor my aunt's motorboat. Once you hit a certain footage there is no maximum capacity which is my point. Was it stupid? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. I think that this accident should be used to revamp boating laws and such but I truly don't think throwing the Captain or the driver in jail would serve any purpose at this point.
at the very least, an adult should have been in there with them. I cannot fathom the utter and complete stupidity. the selfishness.
There was no reason for an adult to be in the cabin with them. They weren't babies. They were three kids playing cards. How is that stupidity or selfishness?
See this is my point. People (general people) have all these opinions on what should have happened. Again I am not arguing that the boat was overloaded. But all these other statements that make no sense. Why should an adult have been in the cabin with the three kids? Logically the cabin would be the safest place at night for kids to be. Nobody could have anticipating this horrific accident. I spent lots of time on my parents boat in the cabin as a kid. Never would have crossed their minds or mine that the boat would capsize and trap us.
I think there should have been someone in there with them. *I* know that I would do that b/c of how much of a lunatic I am.
and now, going forward, even moreso.
What if there were two adults in the cabin with them and they were just unable to save any of them.
so here is where I am weird but the fact that they died alone bothers me the most.
I didn't grow up on boats or with boats so that probably has a lot to do with it, but I cannot be on a boat and not have the kids near me. I can't.
I guess I should be more open to the idea that people who have boats and who grew up with them are more comfortable with the idea but it is something that terrifies me...I love the water. I love the idea of boats but I am never at ease in or around them when I have someone else to protect.
that is my deal obviously but also why I feel this way.
I tend to agree with this.
I like to think of myself as a very laid back, go with the flow kind of person.
When it comes to CERTAIN things.
DD not eating enough protein? OK she'll survive. Her eating cookies for dinner one night- no biggie. Binky until 3? Yeah she won't be emotionally damaged from this.
But when it comes to things like this... I am ULTRA paranoid.
Driving in the car. Walking with her in the stroller- all of those things set my mind racing to the what ifs. And sometimes I think I am not normal. That these thoughts are not healthy. But I can't help it... my mind goes to bad places WAY too quickly.
And to be honest- it is only since I became a mom.
I am shocked at how I have changed. How my emotions and feelings have done a complete 180.
I agree that I could never leave her alone if we were on a boat. And yes, I know she is a lot younger than those kids were. But I dont' see my feelings changing even when she hits 5, 6, 7 8 years old.
But again, that is just me.
And hindsight is always 20/20,
I agree. What bothers me was if I was on a boat at night, pitch black night in such a busy area/fireworks show, etc, I would already have been paranoid if I didn't "see" my child, what if they fell off and no one knew? So I agree...for me, I could never have peace of mind that my 8 yo or 11 yo was not in my sight in the dark, on a boat. I could never handle not knowing for one secondwhere my child was on a boat, in the dark...
Message edited 7/12/2012 1:39:32 PM.
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| Posted 7/12/12 1:38 PM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
IMHO, criminal charges should only be brought upon a commercial charter or the like where you trust a company (strangers) to be competent, law abiding, and in compliance with all rules and regulations.
In a private boating accident involving all family and friends where lives were tragically and accidently lost, it serves absolutely no purpose to criminally charge anyone...the loss of the lives of their loved ones is more of a penalty than any jail or prison could ever provide - not to mention, it's a "life sentence".
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| Posted 7/12/12 1:47 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
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Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by guyinblue
IMHO, criminal charges should only be brought upon a commercial charter or the like where you trust a company (strangers) to be competent, law abiding, and in compliance with all rules and regulations.
In a private boating accident involving all family and friends where lives were tragically and accidently lost, it serves absolutely no purpose to criminally charge anyone...the loss of the lives of their loved ones is more of a penalty than any jail or prison could ever provide - not to mention, it's a "life sentence".
Why shouldn't private boating be held to the same laws? We don't write off criminal charges when it comes to automobiles just because it may involve family & friends.
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| Posted 7/12/12 1:54 PM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by guyinblue
IMHO, criminal charges should only be brought upon a commercial charter or the like where you trust a company (strangers) to be competent, law abiding, and in compliance with all rules and regulations.
In a private boating accident involving all family and friends where lives were tragically and accidently lost, it serves absolutely no purpose to criminally charge anyone...the loss of the lives of their loved ones is more of a penalty than any jail or prison could ever provide - not to mention, it's a "life sentence".
Why shouldn't private boating be held to the same laws? We don't write off criminal charges when it comes to automobiles just because it may involve family & friends.
That's exactly why it's "IMHO"....if you kill strangers in an accident then yes, you should be held accountable. In the event you accidently kill your kid, family or friend - in a car or boat - and no one else is involved, what good is throwing me in prison going to do? There were no drugs or alcohol involved (which would have been a different story altogether).
What exactly are you punishing or rehabilitating in that narrow set of circumstances? TRUST ME, they learned more of a lesson than any prison yard will teach them. They haven't slept a wink since it happened....
Again, just my crazy opinion....
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| Posted 7/12/12 2:31 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by guyinblue
IMHO, criminal charges should only be brought upon a commercial charter or the like where you trust a company (strangers) to be competent, law abiding, and in compliance with all rules and regulations.
In a private boating accident involving all family and friends where lives were tragically and accidently lost, it serves absolutely no purpose to criminally charge anyone...the loss of the lives of their loved ones is more of a penalty than any jail or prison could ever provide - not to mention, it's a "life sentence".
Why shouldn't private boating be held to the same laws? We don't write off criminal charges when it comes to automobiles just because it may involve family & friends.
That's exactly why it's "IMHO"....if you kill strangers in an accident then yes, you should be held accountable. In the event you accidently kill your kid, family or friend - in a car or boat - and no one else is involved, what good is throwing me in prison going to do? There were no drugs or alcohol involved (which would have been a different story altogether).
What exactly are you punishing or rehabilitating in that narrow set of circumstances? TRUST ME, they learned more of a lesson than any prison yard will teach them. They haven't slept a wink since it happened....
Again, just my crazy opinion....
So you only believe in accountability for strangers and assume that persons who may have been in deadly or serious accident with a stranger wouldn't hold the same remorse as they would if it was a family member or friend?
Interesting opinion indeed.
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| Posted 7/12/12 3:00 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Boat full of fireworks watchers capsizes near Long Island's Oyster Bay; 3 dead
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by guyinblue
IMHO, criminal charges should only be brought upon a commercial charter or the like where you trust a company (strangers) to be competent, law abiding, and in compliance with all rules and regulations.
In a private boating accident involving all family and friends where lives were tragically and accidently lost, it serves absolutely no purpose to criminally charge anyone...the loss of the lives of their loved ones is more of a penalty than any jail or prison could ever provide - not to mention, it's a "life sentence".
Why shouldn't private boating be held to the same laws? We don't write off criminal charges when it comes to automobiles just because it may involve family & friends.
That's exactly why it's "IMHO"....if you kill strangers in an accident then yes, you should be held accountable. In the event you accidently kill your kid, family or friend - in a car or boat - and no one else is involved, what good is throwing me in prison going to do? There were no drugs or alcohol involved (which would have been a different story altogether).
What exactly are you punishing or rehabilitating in that narrow set of circumstances? TRUST ME, they learned more of a lesson than any prison yard will teach them. They haven't slept a wink since it happened....
Again, just my crazy opinion....
So you only believe in accountability for strangers and assume that persons who may have been in deadly or serious accident with a stranger wouldn't hold the same remorse as they would if it was a family member or friend?
Interesting opinion indeed.
I agree. You have a separate laws under the "family & friends" plan? The loss of a child trumps jail time IMO but does the law really work if you're in pain enough?
I know someone who killed a guy while driving. He was absolutely devastated over it. He was in the hospital for months, his wife even longer. The stranger he killed haunts him. They live in pain every day. He suffers. Does he get a pass because he's suffered or does he have to go to jail because it's not enough? The amount of emotional pain of a defendant should not negate any legal penalties (if there are any).
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| Posted 7/12/12 3:27 PM |
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