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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by CookieMomster
Posted by Momma2Be
Posted by Ophelia
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
in the very least, it's a fairly well rounded law. protects those who cannot from punishment, requires employers to be supportive (which is key) and is targeting public awareness.
since we cannot be sure what kind of formula they are using there...where it has so much of the same benefits that the brands we use here have, I will not condemn the law.
Although I don't agree with a government dictating how a woman chooses to feed her child, I do agree with you that at least it increases public awareness and forces employers to be supportive to breastfeeding mothers.
Sorry I don't agree. My body my choice. Why not make guidlines for formula there than instead of forcing something down someones throat.
At what point do you balance the my body my rights with what is best for an innocent party?
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Posted 8/12/10 2:44 PM  |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by Ophelia
I think we need to keep in mind that women do not have room for individual choice is so many parts of the world, regardless of how we feel/what we think about it.
so while it seems appalling to us that the govt would take such a measure, the reality is it could have been much worse.
they could have enacted this law with NO exception for inability, NO employer support, and NO campaign for awareness whatsoever.
they could have made it punishable by death.
so while I can see who many people look at it as a woman losing her rights, think still think the recognition is huge.
I agree with this 100%
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| Posted 8/12/10 2:47 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by Ophelia
Under Article 128 of the 2009 Law on Health, it is stipulated that babies have such a right unless their mothers cannot fulfil their obligation due to medical problems.
The law says that employers that do not support the breastfeeding movement will be imprisoned or fined
The 10 steps include a public-awareness campaign targeting pregnant women on the importance of breastfeeding; the provision of assistance for breastfeeding within the first hour of birth, and for breastfeeding on demand; the need to restrict infant intake to only breast milk and the prohibition of pacifiers; and the promotion of breastfeeding support groups in communities
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
I see your point but, what about excluding the mandatory breastfeeding and still imprison or fine the employers that are not supportive, still have the public awareness campaign, still limit the formula ads but, allow women to make a choice. I BF for a few weeks short of a year, supplementing at 8 months because I couldn't pump enough no matter what supplements I shoved down my throat. But, I would never presume that what was a wonderful fufilling and "right" experience for me and my child is right for someone else.
Message edited 8/12/2010 2:51:04 PM.
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| Posted 8/12/10 2:48 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by FrankiesGirl107
Posted by dm24angel
Just appaling to me that any government would control their women in this way in 2010. Regardless of any "good" that might come from it for employees bf'ing...the loss of respect for individual choices..basically EVERYTHING else about it makes that good point almost null.
But their government also gives them 3 months of maternity leave, at 100% of their salary during that time....
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the law, but I do recognize that there are many countries in this world who dictate and control their citizen's lives.
This country was founded by people who felt, as many of us do, that human beings deserved certain "inalienable rights"....liberties that we take for granted very often. Many (perhaps most) other countries do not allow their citizens the same choices and freedoms. It doesn't make it worse, just different....It's why I am proud to be an American - where I DO have the right to say what I do with my life, my money, my body.
I think the point though is not to say what they do and don't have, or how much worse it could have been...you can say that about almost anything.
The point is that exactly as you say, this is just another example of Woman not given the right to choose how to live their lives/being docated . Doesn't matter to me how much "worse" it could have been, I'm puzzled by it as it is.
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| Posted 8/12/10 2:53 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by sfp0701
Posted by Ophelia
Under Article 128 of the 2009 Law on Health, it is stipulated that babies have such a right unless their mothers cannot fulfil their obligation due to medical problems.
The law says that employers that do not support the breastfeeding movement will be imprisoned or fined
The 10 steps include a public-awareness campaign targeting pregnant women on the importance of breastfeeding; the provision of assistance for breastfeeding within the first hour of birth, and for breastfeeding on demand; the need to restrict infant intake to only breast milk and the prohibition of pacifiers; and the promotion of breastfeeding support groups in communities
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
I see your point but, what about excluding the mandatory breastfeeding and still imprison or fine the employers that are not supportive, still have the public awareness campaign, still limit the formula ads but, allow women to make a choice. I BF for a few weeks short of a year, supplementing at 8 months because I couldn't pump enough no matter what supplements I shoved down my throat. But, I would never presume that what was a wonderful fufilling and "right" experience for me and my child is right for someone else.
hey, I am with you. I would have one skinny kid if they banned formula 
I am just looking at it in the totality of the circumstances, considering where it's enacted and all that that means. I understand it even if I can't agree with it.
Message edited 8/12/2010 3:06:23 PM.
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:05 PM |
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mamabear
LIF Adult
Member since 3/08 4539 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
I think we need to keep in mind that women do not have room for individual choice is so many parts of the world, regardless of how we feel/what we think about it.
so while it seems appalling to us that the govt would take such a measure, the reality is it could have been much worse.
they could have enacted this law with NO exception for inability, NO employer support, and NO campaign for awareness whatsoever.
they could have made it punishable by death.
so while I can see who many people look at it as a woman losing her rights, think still think the recognition is huge.
I agree with this 100%
I agree as well. I also agree that it is a hard line to balance the right to make choices regarding my body with the rigths of an innocent person dependent on my body. Even in this country, abortion rights are not unlimited. Beyond 23.5 weeks or so, a woman cannot have an abortion. And many in this country would have that cutoff much earlier, or not allow abortion at all. And beyond that, there are many laws in this country regulating what we can and can't do to/with our bodies-e.g., prostitution, drug use, suicide.
When it comes to breastfeeding (and actual care of newborns in general) I believe our government needs to step in a little more. I am NOT saying I believe there should be a law making breastfeeding mandatory. I am saying the government needs to enact initiatives and incentives to encourage breastfeeding and more hands-on care at the newborn stage. For example--tax breaks/incentives for purchasing breast pumps and related products, lactation consultants, longer paid maternity leave, tax breaks for women who are able to donate breastmilk. There is a lot the government can do to encourage and promote breastfeeding without punishing women who choose not to by throwing them in jail (what good does that do for a baby?)
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:07 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
So, if you don't BF your baby, they put you in jail.... to... get you to BF? 
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:13 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Why don't I ever see any laws telling men what to do with their bodies 
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:22 PM |
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mamabear
LIF Adult
Member since 3/08 4539 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by stickydust
Why don't I ever see any laws telling men what to do with their bodies
i don't agree with the law, and am a pretty big feminist, but don't agree with this fully. There have been laws telling men what to do with their bodies--military service requirements.
there are also laws relating to what you can do with your body that affect men and women equally--(i posted some above, but drug use, suicide, prostitution or solicitation of prostitution)
women's bodies are unique in their ability to create and carry life and nourish a baby. i dont see what law could be required of men physically speaking when it comes to carrying a baby, birthing a baby, nourishing a baby. it is just an area that is hard to compare.
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:34 PM |
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CrankyPants
I'm cranky
Member since 7/06 18178 total posts
Name:
Mama Cranky
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by CookieMomster
Posted by Momma2Be
Posted by Ophelia
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
in the very least, it's a fairly well rounded law. protects those who cannot from punishment, requires employers to be supportive (which is key) and is targeting public awareness.
since we cannot be sure what kind of formula they are using there...where it has so much of the same benefits that the brands we use here have, I will not condemn the law.
Although I don't agree with a government dictating how a woman chooses to feed her child, I do agree with you that at least it increases public awareness and forces employers to be supportive to breastfeeding mothers.
Sorry I don't agree. My body my choice. Why not make guidlines for formula there than instead of forcing something down someones throat.
At what point do you balance the my body my rights with what is best for an innocent party?
Again?
There are things in this world that are far worse than formula feeding and perhaps that should be the focus.
Statements like "what is best for the child" make it sound as if formula is poison. It is far from that. Children grow and thrive on it and that's a fact jack. In fact, it's second only to breast milk:
Breast Milk
Formula
Whole Milk
Melted ice cream
cookies
peanuts
Chicken of a bone
Chicken on a bone
Popcorn
Pureed Pez
Dirt
Poison
See? I could be giving my kid pureed pez. So, little suzy is just fine on formula.
I am all for education around breastfeeding but at the end of the day THIS is not something that the any government should have a say in.
Oh, and I especially love calling the child an "innocent party". Like my kids are somehow dirty because I feed them formula
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:37 PM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by CrankyPants
Statements like "what is best for the child" make it sound as if formula is poison. It is far from that. Children grow and thrive on it and that's a fact jack. In fact, it's second only to breast milk:
Breast Milk
Formula
Whole Milk
Melted ice cream
cookies
peanuts
Chicken of a bone
Chicken on a bone
Popcorn
Pureed Pez
Dirt
Poison
See? I could be giving my kid pureed pez. So, little suzy is just fine on formula.
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:45 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by CookieMomster
Posted by Momma2Be
Posted by Ophelia
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
in the very least, it's a fairly well rounded law. protects those who cannot from punishment, requires employers to be supportive (which is key) and is targeting public awareness.
since we cannot be sure what kind of formula they are using there...where it has so much of the same benefits that the brands we use here have, I will not condemn the law.
Although I don't agree with a government dictating how a woman chooses to feed her child, I do agree with you that at least it increases public awareness and forces employers to be supportive to breastfeeding mothers.
Sorry I don't agree. My body my choice. Why not make guidlines for formula there than instead of forcing something down someones throat.
At what point do you balance the my body my rights with what is best for an innocent party?
So I suppose I am abusing my "innocent party" of a child by not breastfeeding.
What a selfish beyotch I am.
THROW ME IN JAIL.
THROW AWAY THE KEY.
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:45 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
I am just SO SICK of people implying that breast milk is SO much better.
My own mother included gave me so much grief that I didn't BF DD. Even though I was on meds for PPD and I also had a 16 month old DS to care for.
you know what? DD is just as healthy, just as smart and just as all around perfect as DS- and I nursed him and FF her.
Her life will not be any different than his.
And all the guilt and anguish this topic causes moms who don't or can't BF- is really just aggravating to me.
Just a vent. 
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| Posted 8/12/10 3:57 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by casey31
I am just SO SICK of people implying that breast milk is SO much better.
My own mother included gave me so much grief that I didn't BF DD. Even though I was on meds for PPD and I also had a 16 month old DS to care for.
you know what? DD is just as healthy, just as smart and just as all around perfect as DS- and I nursed him and FF her.
Her life will not be any different than his.
And all the guilt and anguish this topic causes moms who don't or can't BF- is really just aggravating to me.
Just a vent.
People are not just implying BM is better than formula, it is a know fact.
Ever notice that formula never says as good as monther's milk or better than? That's because it isn't.
As for your child's case, a sample size of one means nothing.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:02 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by CookieMomster
Posted by Momma2Be
Posted by Ophelia
just bolding these points b/c I find them very interesting.
in the very least, it's a fairly well rounded law. protects those who cannot from punishment, requires employers to be supportive (which is key) and is targeting public awareness.
since we cannot be sure what kind of formula they are using there...where it has so much of the same benefits that the brands we use here have, I will not condemn the law.
Although I don't agree with a government dictating how a woman chooses to feed her child, I do agree with you that at least it increases public awareness and forces employers to be supportive to breastfeeding mothers.
Sorry I don't agree. My body my choice. Why not make guidlines for formula there than instead of forcing something down someones throat.
At what point do you balance the my body my rights with what is best for an innocent party?
So I suppose I am abusing my "innocent party" of a child by not breastfeeding.
What a selfish beyotch I am.
THROW ME IN JAIL.
THROW AWAY THE KEY.
I never said abusing, those are your words
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:02 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by mamabear
Posted by stickydust
Why don't I ever see any laws telling men what to do with their bodies
i don't agree with the law, and am a pretty big feminist, but don't agree with this fully. There have been laws telling men what to do with their bodies--military service requirements.
there are also laws relating to what you can do with your body that affect men and women equally--(i posted some above, but drug use, suicide, prostitution or solicitation of prostitution)
women's bodies are unique in their ability to create and carry life and nourish a baby. i dont see what law could be required of men physically speaking when it comes to carrying a baby, birthing a baby, nourishing a baby. it is just an area that is hard to compare.
I think your example about drug use, prostitution etc. aren't really similar because those laws address not just the individual but the societal impact of those actions.
I wrote an extensive research paper on this topic in law school and for centuries there have been laws governing women's bodies and reproductive system - whether it be birth control, refusal to perform your "marital duties", or abortion. Yes, women and their bodies are uniquely situated and there is no parallel for men, however, I think that illustrates why men should not be making these decisions. Furthermore, of pressed i am sure I could come up with some laws for me...
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:03 PM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
At what point do you balance the my body my rights with what is best for an innocent party?
Its sad, and I regret to admit it, but I have to say, that if I successfully breastfed like I planned, I would have said exactly the same thing.
Not everything is as simple as what you think for others when it doesn't go well. And when it doesn't go well, its heartbreaking and traumatic. Went through my own depression and evaluated my own self worth a million times.
When I decided to give up on BF, going to jail about it would have meant nothing to me, I was in such a bad place mentally it was punishment enough.
I think education is important, but enforcement is silly.
For my child, formula was best, and much better than breast milk.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:04 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by casey31
I am just SO SICK of people implying that breast milk is SO much better.
My own mother included gave me so much grief that I didn't BF DD. Even though I was on meds for PPD and I also had a 16 month old DS to care for.
you know what? DD is just as healthy, just as smart and just as all around perfect as DS- and I nursed him and FF her.
Her life will not be any different than his.
And all the guilt and anguish this topic causes moms who don't or can't BF- is really just aggravating to me.
Just a vent.
People are not just implying BM is better than formula, it is a know fact.
Ever notice that formula never says as good as monther's milk or better than? That's because it isn't.
As for your child's case, a sample size of one means nothing.
The problem is that no studies done comparing breast milk to formula can be completely accurate because they cannot conduct controlled studies as it is considered unethical. SO any studies that are done cannot be done in a vacuum and factors such as parental IQ, enviroment, genetics etc. plays a siginificant role.
From a purely anecdotal perspective I have never seen any "real life" evidence that would indicate that breast fed children are any healthier or smarter than formula fed ones. I think there is a multitude of factors that contribute to these and neither formula nor breast milk is a magic potion.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:08 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by casey31
I am just SO SICK of people implying that breast milk is SO much better.
My own mother included gave me so much grief that I didn't BF DD. Even though I was on meds for PPD and I also had a 16 month old DS to care for.
you know what? DD is just as healthy, just as smart and just as all around perfect as DS- and I nursed him and FF her.
Her life will not be any different than his.
And all the guilt and anguish this topic causes moms who don't or can't BF- is really just aggravating to me.
Just a vent.
People are not just implying BM is better than formula, it is a know fact.
Ever notice that formula never says as good as monther's milk or better than? That's because it isn't.
As for your child's case, a sample size of one means nothing.
Millions of children THRIVE on similac and have perfectly good lives. So do BF babies
But I know plenty of BF babies that have more allergies, asthma and other problems than my FF daughter.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:09 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
O
M
F
G
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:10 PM |
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MST9106
My life:)
Member since 6/06 9589 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
SERIOUSLY!
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:13 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by stickydust
From a purely anecdotal perspective I have never seen any "real life" evidence that would indicate that breast fed children are any healthier or smarter than formula fed ones. I think there is a multitude of factors that contribute to these and neither formula nor breast milk is a magic potion.
yes.
this is so true. bm is made up of what is IN the mother's body. it is not a uniform "formula" that appears in the milk.
it is created by the mother, for the child, which SHOULD yield the 'best' product of the individual child, but the mother's diet comes in to play.
if your as the mom eat like ****, your bm is not going to be anywhere NEAR as nutrient rich as the formula, which has a specific criteria it must meet.
ERGO: some moms are doing their babies a FAVOR by formula feeding.
Message edited 8/12/2010 4:14:27 PM.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:13 PM |
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4PsInaPod
My Loves <3
Member since 7/07 10079 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
I was JUST going type that. I.swear.to.god
This debate is just getting ridiculous on this board now.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:14 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by stickydust
From a purely anecdotal perspective I have never seen any "real life" evidence that would indicate that breast fed children are any healthier or smarter than formula fed ones. I think there is a multitude of factors that contribute to these and neither formula nor breast milk is a magic potion.
yes.
this is so true. bm is made up of what is IN the mother's body. it is not a uniform "formula" that appears in the milk.
it is created by the mother, for the child, which SHOULD yield the 'best' product of the individual child, but the mother's diet comes in to play.
if your as the mom eat like ****, your bm is not going to be anywhere NEAR as nutrient rich as the formula, which has a specific criteria it must meet.
ERGO: some moms are doing their babies a FAVOR by formula feeding.
Oh, I completely agree. Just like the lactation consultant wanted me to continue BFing even though I was on 5 different meds to lower my BP, the baby was noticeably lethargic, and my BP was at 200/95. In that case BM was not best as I felt more comfortable with formula than all those BP medsgoing into my newborn's body.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:18 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: IT'S THE LAW! - MANDATORY BREASTFEEDING FOR 6 MOS. IN INDONESIA
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by casey31
I am just SO SICK of people implying that breast milk is SO much better.
My own mother included gave me so much grief that I didn't BF DD. Even though I was on meds for PPD and I also had a 16 month old DS to care for.
you know what? DD is just as healthy, just as smart and just as all around perfect as DS- and I nursed him and FF her.
Her life will not be any different than his.
And all the guilt and anguish this topic causes moms who don't or can't BF- is really just aggravating to me.
Just a vent.
People are not just implying BM is better than formula, it is a know fact.
Ever notice that formula never says as good as monther's milk or better than? That's because it isn't.
As for your child's case, a sample size of one means nothing.
That "sample size of one" to me means EVERYTHING.
Those crazy LC's and my own mom that pressured me where absolutely unhealthy to me and my family.
That's why hearing about a country making a law about breastfeeding is very sad to me.
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| Posted 8/12/10 4:23 PM |
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