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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by Shelly
I don't know any attorney who has ever called up their assistant "to open a law book and tell them how to proceed." Yikes! I have never even heard of that. Have you?
So then it must never happen, since you've never heard of it. Aren't there people called 'paralegals'?
A paralegal is NOT an assistant - they have certification and training in doing legal research. A good lawyer WOULD rely on a GOOD paralegal to do adequate legal research and in fact, it's a service to the client because, instead of doing it himself or herself and charging $300 a hour, the paralegal will do the research and charge less.
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Posted 2/29/08 11:00 AM  |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10312 total posts
Name:
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by Chatham-Chick
In my past experience, any scumbag attorney I ever knew was a scumbag before they even entered law school. 
Ok, so here's a question - do you think that the field of law somehow draws more "scumbag" people? Or, is that the legal field is often more publicized so it just appears as if it has more scumbags than any other profession?
I think it just appears that way to our society thanks to the media and tv shows which all too often glamorize that scumbag persona.
I don't think that "scumbag types" are more likely to enter the field of law anymore than they are to enter into business, medicine, education, you name it. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round and they're not exclusive to any profession or field.
Message edited 2/29/2008 12:16:58 PM.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:02 AM |
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2girlsforme
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
Name:
XXXXXXXXX
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by 2girlsforme
I understand that, but that doesn't really matter. Personally, I am more frightened of the government having unchecked power. Let's face it the defendant is at deficit just by being the defendant. I have a good friend who is a defense attorney who says that anti defense people, suddenly do a 180 degree turn the first time their spouse, brother, father has a dwi. This is of course a gross generalization but it makes you think.
What doesn't matter? And please give an example of this unchecked power? If it's that frightening, I guess we should go to another country where govts ARE held in check...good luck finding one.
Everyone can have an opinion about something until it affects them personally. It's human nature.
What doesn't matter is someone who is guilty walking free, if the government didn't do its job. As a society, I believe we are better off letting a guilty party off, then having our officials behave in a less then ethical manner.
As for an example of abuse of power by police, DA's and the system in general, Marty Tankleff may have an opinion. I'm not sure if he's guilty or not and although the govt's power is not completely unchecked in the sense that their are appeals etc, available, a defendant can lose years and years of their life. This has also happened to many, many lifers, who were exonerated with the advent of DNA evidence.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:03 AM |
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bomb-blast
bye bye
Member since 11/06 1327 total posts
Name:
Leo
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Kara
I actually laughed at that one. Paralegals don't do any interpretation or research of the law. I don't have time to explain their job in depth, but I can guarantee you we don't call them up and ask them how to proceed.
And, it's very naive to think that there's some book of laws out there and every law is black and white. One of the beauties of a partially common law system is that very few facets of the law are black and white.
So then paralegals must be the reason why attorneys charge such high fees...having people on payroll who don't do much.
I never said the law was black and white. In fact, earlier I said that an attorney's job is to interpret law. I know there is not one book that everyone can open to page 100 and say "A-ha, there is the answer. Do that!" I was merely trying to simplify the difference between being able to do research when there is doubt over something (attorney) and having to make a split-second decision (police).
People will always read what they want to read...again, human nature.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:11 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
No.  DH and I as well as our fathers and several other family members are attorneys.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:11 AM |
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bomb-blast
bye bye
Member since 11/06 1327 total posts
Name:
Leo
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Bxgell2
A paralegal is NOT an assistant - they have certification and training in doing legal research. A good lawyer WOULD rely on a GOOD paralegal to do adequate legal research and in fact, it's a service to the client because, instead of doing it himself or herself and charging $300 a hour, the paralegal will do the research and charge less.
Someone disagrees with you
"I actually laughed at that one. Paralegals don't do any interpretation or research of the law. I don't have time to explain their job in depth, but I can guarantee you we don't call them up and ask them how to proceed. "
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:13 AM |
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Cookiegobbler
My little love bugs!!
Member since 9/05 5759 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Considering my best friend is an attorney and she is DEFINITELY not a scumbag... I'm gonna go with an emphatic NO
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:16 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by Bxgell2
A paralegal is NOT an assistant - they have certification and training in doing legal research. A good lawyer WOULD rely on a GOOD paralegal to do adequate legal research and in fact, it's a service to the client because, instead of doing it himself or herself and charging $300 a hour, the paralegal will do the research and charge less.
Someone disagrees with you
"I actually laughed at that one. Paralegals don't do any interpretation or research of the law. I don't have time to explain their job in depth, but I can guarantee you we don't call them up and ask them how to proceed. "
Your point being?  Um, yes, people disagree with me all the time, I don't take it as a personal attack.
I agree with Kara - they do not do interpretation of the law, but from my experience, they do some research, depending on the firm, their certification and their experience. An attorney would rely on their expertise, but would never ask them how to proceed.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:24 AM |
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pnm1654
Mommy to 2 boys!
Member since 5/05 4565 total posts
Name:
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
I am one, so no
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:25 AM |
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bomb-blast
bye bye
Member since 11/06 1327 total posts
Name:
Leo
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Bxgell2
Your point being? Um, yes, people disagree with me all the time, I don't take it as a personal attack.
LOL!
Pointing-something-out...that was my point. Where did I say, "Someone is personally attacking you"
OMG, people on this board really do crack me up!
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:27 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by Bxgell2
Your point being? Um, yes, people disagree with me all the time, I don't take it as a personal attack.
LOL!
Pointing-something-out...that was my point. Where did I say, "Someone is personally attacking you"
OMG, people on this board really do crack me up!
Pointing-something out... for what purpose?
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:29 AM |
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bomb-blast
bye bye
Member since 11/06 1327 total posts
Name:
Leo
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Bxgell2
Pointing-something out... for what purpose?
From your reaction, you were probably thinking I was trying to start some sort of drama. I am a guy. Guys typically avoid drama...especially when there's women involved.
In any event, I was simply pointing it out because one person had a different view from what you wrote. She even laughed at the idea of paralegals doing research. So in case you missed it, I was just showing you what someone else wrote. Nothing more. Nothing less. Can-I-make-it-any-clearer-or-do-you-still-not-understand-what-I'm-talking-about?
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:35 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
I think billing out at $500-$700/hour is outrageous...but as far as being scumbags, I think it all comes down to the individual and the line of practice that they're in.
I think a majority of attorneys bill out at much less than that. I don't think what attorneys charge is much different than doctors, accountants, etc.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:38 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Can-I-make-it-any-clearer-or-do-you-still-not-understand-what-I'm-talking-about?
Perfectly clear, thank you very much.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:39 AM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
Name:
Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
No - but my opinion may be skewed because a lot of my immediate friends are lawyers!
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:40 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by Bxgell2
A paralegal is NOT an assistant - they have certification and training in doing legal research. A good lawyer WOULD rely on a GOOD paralegal to do adequate legal research and in fact, it's a service to the client because, instead of doing it himself or herself and charging $300 a hour, the paralegal will do the research and charge less.
Someone disagrees with you
"I actually laughed at that one. Paralegals don't do any interpretation or research of the law. I don't have time to explain their job in depth, but I can guarantee you we don't call them up and ask them how to proceed. "
Your point being? Um, yes, people disagree with me all the time, I don't take it as a personal attack.
I agree with Kara - they do not do interpretation of the law, but from my experience, they do some research, depending on the firm, their certification and their experience. An attorney would rely on their expertise, but would never ask them how to proceed.
Agreed with bxgell2 -- We maybe have slightly different definitions of the word "research" which could cause some confusion. Their functions vary depending on their experience, expertise, and the firm setting in which they work.
Regardless, even if they did NO legal research by any definition, they would still be vital. They do most of the administrative work for filing court papers and administrative papers in many law firms -- something that requires a lot of knowledge, expertise, and attention to detail. On those types of matters, good attorneys will consult with and sometimes defer to the paralegals, as that is (at least in many litigation firms) an area in which the paralegal will be extremely knowledgeable.
Gee, look at us scumbag attorneys being civil and polite.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:46 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by Kara
Gee, look at us scumbag attorneys being civil and polite.
 
To add, bomb-blast, if I were a paralegal I would take great offense to someone saying my job isn't important. Unless and until you really know what you're talking about with regard to a person's job function and it's importance, I would tread lightly.
Message edited 2/29/2008 11:49:54 AM.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:49 AM |
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Jax430
Hi!
Member since 5/05 18919 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
I have many friends who are attorneys, so no, I don't think that they are mostly scumbags at all!
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:54 AM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Can-I-make-it-any-clearer-or-do-you-still-not-understand-what-I'm-talking-about?
Wow - totally unecessary.
To answer the OP, no, I don't, but as in any other profession there are some who are. My brother is an attorney and is probably one of the most ethical people I know. I worked for attorneys while in school and was in an office where several small practices shared space. I was surrounded by some brilliant minds, but also saw some shady behavior taking place. I think the reason people resent them so much is that fees are so high and the work being done is not always tangible (the firm I worked for did not bill out at $300/hr. +).
Message edited 2/29/2008 11:59:19 AM.
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| Posted 2/29/08 11:58 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by Bxgell2
Pointing-something out... for what purpose?
From your reaction, you were probably thinking I was trying to start some sort of drama. I am a guy. Guys typically avoid drama...especially when there's women involved.
In any event, I was simply pointing it out because one person had a different view from what you wrote. She even laughed at the idea of paralegals doing research. So in case you missed it, I was just showing you what someone else wrote. Nothing more. Nothing less. Can-I-make-it-any-clearer-or-do-you-still-not-understand-what-I'm-talking-about?
Please don't misinterpret my posts. I was laughing at the idea that you think we call up legal assistants and ask them how to proceed in cases. As I explained, I think bxgell2 and I were actually talking about different things -- my focus was on interpretation of the law, whereas she probably was thinking more along the lines of court procedures, pulling cases, etc. That's not surprising. While I don't really know bxgell, I'm pretty sure we work in two very different types of environments and different focuses within our profession. As such, our interactions with paralegals and the job descriptions of the paralegals we work with are probably very different. We actually agree with each other.
For someone so passionate about issue, you sure are misinformed about how law offices and legal professionals work.
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:04 PM |
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JessInCA
live laugh love
Member since 8/06 5082 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
I don't automatically think attorneys are scumbags - that opinion is reserved for those people who ACT like scumbags
If anything, I probably generalize that they've had a lot of education, have a demanding work schedule, and have a high income (though I know logically that's not always the case, depending on the type of law you practice).
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:06 PM |
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bomb-blast
bye bye
Member since 11/06 1327 total posts
Name:
Leo
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by dpli
Wow - totally unecessary.
Twice she asked me about the same thing. I just wanted to make sure I was clear about my intention.
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:08 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
Posted by bomb-blast
Posted by dpli
Wow - totally unecessary.
Twice she asked me about the same thing. I just wanted to make sure I was clear about my intention.
Well, you know, my training as an attorney urges me to continue to ask when someone repeatedly provides a weak, nebulous or pretextual answer to my question.
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:10 PM |
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
BETH!!!!!!  I was SOOOO kidding - and folks - I never used the word scumbag!!!! I was teasing her about being an attorney!!!
Beth - you know you rock the planet!!!
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:12 PM |
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steph4777
**************
Member since 5/05 11726 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Do you think attorneys are mostly scumbags?
DH is an attorney and he's definitely not a scumbag. In fact I think he's too nice. He has his own practice and he's done a lot of payment plans for clients who could not afford to pay the retainer all at once bc he believed in their case.
It's unfortunate that lawyers get such a bad rap bc there are scumbags in all professions.
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| Posted 2/29/08 12:15 PM |
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