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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by mommy2bella
where IS that damn bunny with a pancake on its head?
Is that him above 
actually, that's a waffle, not a pancake!   
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Posted 10/19/07 9:32 PM  |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by mommy2bella
I was born in 1977, so why do I have to continue to pay the price of my forefathers.
The past should not predicate how we act in the present. That is why I ask.
Hey, date who you want. I just know there wouldn't be a ginormous billboard with Miss Whitebread saying go to whitesingles.com if you want to find someone to date.
Because the descendants of those people who were targeted by our forefathers are STILL feeling, and experienced discrimination and hardship as a result, that's why.
I work in Civil Rights - the whole purpose of my being for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, is to throw every ounce of my energy into eradicating discrimination, so this issue is very personal, and very real for me.
And what I've learned is that the point is NOT to make everyone the same, to ignore the very real and significant cultural experiences we share with people of the same color, religion or national origin, but to EMBRACE it and to celebrate those differences. That's why I see absolutely no problem with Jdate, Black dating websites, or Miss Black America.
The purpose of anti-discrimination laws isn't to obliviate those kinds of organizations and make everyone into a blank slate. The purpose is two-fold - to celebrate and embrace those differences, but at the same time, to ensure that NO ONE is being held back, targeted, or discriminated against because of those differences.
And the reason why our laws target protection of particular groups is because THOSE are the groups that experience the most difficulty, the most hardship. The point is to bring everyone to an even playing field - so that everyone has an equal chance to make something of themselves, without their race, their color, their religion, being the reason why they can't.
Until that's accomplished - until the differences in each of us are accepted and celebrated, instead of an excuse to hold someone back, those laws will continue to exist. If you look at the hard, fast statistics, it's pathetic, particularly in our schools. We aren't on an even playing field, by any means, and there's no getting around that. So, until we are, those laws will continue to exist, but so will organizations that cater to particular groups.
Sorry for the ramble and rant, this is just a very hot issue for me.
this was so perfectly and beautifully said!!! 
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| Posted 10/19/07 9:40 PM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by june262004
How many non jews are on Jdate 
ACTUALLY - I remember when I was on jdate, there was a non-jewish black man on there looking for dates!!! He and I actually exchanged a few emails or whatever they were - he was really cool!!!
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| Posted 10/19/07 9:54 PM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Goldi0218
I read as much as I can tolerate without developing vertigo or an ulcer. I came pretty close to both.
First I will address the OP. I think a lot of people would be offended. I think people would start an uproar and I think it would be down before the glue dries. I am not sure how I personally would feel about it.
Now for my ramblings.
There is no question that many groups whether based in culture, religion, race or any combination has had its share of discrimination and/or persecution. One's groups problems should never be measured against another's.
That being said, I can only speak of what I know - the persecution of my ancestors base on religion and culture. Judaism is a religion AND a culture - like it or not - it just is. Many people celebrate Jewish culture without ever setting foot in a temple or Kabbalah center. It is a big part of who I am and what defines me as a person and a woman.
It may be surprising to many people - especially those of us who live in densely populated areas filled with diversity - as to how small national and world-wide Jewry is. Judaism makes up less than .25 percent of all of the religions in the entire world - a total of 13 million people. It makes up about 1 percent of the religion in this country. Why people feel threatened by such small numbers always blows me away.
Surely, it is obvious that Jews were not ever big in numbers, but it is pretty obvious how the Holocaust nearly eradicated who was here and left sadness as well as despair for many. Some were left with no faith and others vowed to overcome the atrocities and teach their children so this could and would never happen again.
As a Jewish child and a Jewish woman, I was always taught it was my duty and responsibility to perpetuate the faith by having Jewish children. A Jewish couple is often told that in order to do this, they must have at least three children - one to replace the mother, one to replace the father and one to keep things going for the future. I know a lot of people will roll their eyes at this one - too bad - it is how I was raised. This is why so many Orthodox families have so many kids - they are fulfilling a promise.
Due to my own reproductive limitations, at this point, I pray that G-d will bless us with at least one healthy child. We plan to raise our children in a Jewish home - they will know their religion and their Jewish culture so they can teach THEIR children.
The fundamentals of all religion (and just plain old human decency) basically preach the same ideals - do unto others.... I work in an area that is racially and religiously divided. As I drive through Crown Heights on my way home through East New York, I see a billboard with the Grand Rebbe Menachem Schneerson (whom Lubavitcher Jews see as the Messiah) and it says "Do Acts of Kindness". It does not say "Do Acts of Kindness to Jews Only." Goodness is goodness no matter whom it comes from and where it goes to. When my father was dying, we had prayer chains going from Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims and others and we accepted each one graciously - we did not reject any thing because it wasn't based in Judaism. Geez I even carry a prayer of St. Gerard in my bag every day in hopes that some of the prayers and good wishes will help me to conceive and maintain a pregnancy. So what if St. Gerard doesn't go to my shul.
It is no secret that I met my husband on JDate. I have said it many times before and I will make no apologies for it. I do not feel guilty for being proud of it either. I did not seek a Jewish partner because I felt Jews were superior. I did not do it because I felt others were inferior. I did it out of a promise and obligation. Some people do not believe in organized religion. Some people may find my choice to be either racist, separatist or exclusive. I look at it as trying to preserve my religion so it doesnt die out. It is already pretty darn close.
If a person sees the avenue I chose to create my family and fulfill my promise as discriminatory or close minded, too bad. Maybe if my ancestors weren't treated like crap in the first place, this wouldnt be a discussion.
another beautifully written post!!!
I am so overwhelmed by the intelligence of many of you ladies on the board when I read thru a debate like this!!!
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:03 PM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by sticklee
Posted by missgwife
If I took a poll right now and ask the age of most of the ladies on this post, you all would be under the age of 25, and don't have an idea of what goes on in the world.
oh boy
ageism anyone???? 
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:11 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
I didn't read all of the replies, not even sure if we're still on topic but IMO its not right & I personally feel offended, insulted & like I'm being treated unfairly based on my race(white) when I see these types of things.
I truly feel it is discrimination & there is no amount of explaining the history of slavery that will change that for me. I am 3rd or 4th generation american, my ancestors weren't even on this continent when slavery was an active part of life here.
Another example is "Black Colleges", still alive & well in this country. I thought we are all "allowed" to go to school together now.
on a side note I'm also offended that all telephone customer service has resorted to asking if you want English or Spanish, I'm very sorry but it would take any adult ONE DAY in this country to memorize "if you speak spanish, press one" & THEN they could be transfered to their prefered language. If you are going to live here you may as well start learning a few phrases, unless of course our society would like to continue to discrimate against english speaking people.
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:19 PM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by mommy2bella
where IS that damn bunny with a pancake on its head?
Is that him above
That bunny has a waffle on his head - doesn't he belong in the bunnieswithwafflesontheirheadsdating.com?
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:21 PM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
Member since 11/06 6686 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by sometimesmommy
Posted by mommy2bella
where IS that damn bunny with a pancake on its head?
Is that him above
That bunny has a waffle on his head - doesn't he belong in the bunnieswithwafflesontheirheadsdating.com? [/QUOTE
I just woke up DD busting out laughing 
Message edited 10/19/2007 10:25:30 PM.
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:23 PM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by sometimesmommy
You ladies rock!!!
thank you mommy2bella for showing me what wonderful thinkers we have on this site - I even shared with DH, who thinks I waste my time on here!
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| Posted 10/19/07 10:25 PM |
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steph4777
**************
Member since 5/05 11726 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by KellyFG
I didn't read all of the replies, not even sure if we're still on topic but IMO its not right & I personally feel offended, insulted & like I'm being treated unfairly based on my race(white) when I see these types of things.
I truly feel it is discrimination & there is no amount of explaining the history of slavery that will change that for me. I am 3rd or 4th generation american, my ancestors weren't even on this continent when slavery was an active part of life here.
Another example is "Black Colleges", still alive & well in this country. I thought we are all "allowed" to go to school together now.
I've been reading this thread for the last two days and decided to stay out of it since I didn't feel I could add anything of real value to the topic. But when I saw this comment I had to respond.
I went to one of those "Black Colleges", which by the way are known as Historically Black Colleges and Universities. They needed to exist in a time when blacks weren't allowed in other universities. These schools were not created to exclude anyone, they were meant to provide quality (and affordable) education to anyone. While they may still be predominantly black, there are people of non-color enrolled.
Sorry Kelly, didn't mean to go off topic but I don't want people to believing that these colleges in any way exclude certain groups.
Message edited 10/20/2007 2:15:43 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/07 2:02 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Wow!I really can't believe this is still going on.
But if someone asks why they have to pay fo the sins of their ancestors one more time, I may just 
You are not paying for the sins of your ancestors, its the sin of your NEIGHBORS. Its not like white supremecy or racism is dead and buried with your ancestors. Its alive and thanks to the internet, its thriving. That is one of the reasons I posted the articles about racial violence. Its still happening in our own backyard! You don't know who thinks that way, from your neighbors, parents of your kids' friends', the people who work at the bank, etc.... I worked with a guy for years and one day we were talking about kids and he has 5. I said wow, that' a lot. His response- we have to keep the white race going. 
And we all have to pay for the sins of our neighbors. Its universal. I don't love going to Europe and people thinking that I am some ignorant, conservative imperialist. I was completely embarassed while in italy I saw a bunch of Americans jump into the Fountain D'Trevi and start splashing one another (and everyone on the street) But Im american and whether I like it or not, the actions of other Americans effect the perceptions that people have about me.
Just like not every Parisian is rude, but some are, Parisians have to deal with others perception of that. Just like not all middle easterns are terrorists, every middle eastern at some point will have someone think they are. Helll my Israeli Jewish husband worries everytime we go on a plane he will get stopped because of his name and his looks.
But when you live in a society with others, you have to accept that people may initialy perceive you based, not only on the person you are, but whatever personal experiences and opinions they have. And lets be honest, we all do it. You hear someone is from some neighborhood, or does some job, or has some culture and you make assumptions about that person. Hopefully we are all openminded enough to let those assumptions change as we get to know the person.
So back to my original point, you are not paying for the sins of your fathers. You are paying for the sins of your neighbors who think that white pride=white supremecy.
Message edited 10/20/2007 7:53:03 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/07 7:51 AM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by steph4777
Posted by KellyFG
I didn't read all of the replies, not even sure if we're still on topic but IMO its not right & I personally feel offended, insulted & like I'm being treated unfairly based on my race(white) when I see these types of things.
I truly feel it is discrimination & there is no amount of explaining the history of slavery that will change that for me. I am 3rd or 4th generation american, my ancestors weren't even on this continent when slavery was an active part of life here.
Another example is "Black Colleges", still alive & well in this country. I thought we are all "allowed" to go to school together now.
I've been reading this thread for the last two days and decided to stay out of it since I didn't feel I could add anything of real value to the topic. But when I saw this comment I had to respond.
I went to one of those "Black Colleges", which by the way are known as Historically Black Colleges and Universities. They needed to exist in a time when blacks weren't allowed in other universities. These schools were not created to exclude anyone, they were meant to provide quality (and affordable) education to anyone. While they may still be predominantly black, there are people of non-color enrolled.
Sorry Kelly, didn't mean to go off topic but I don't want people to believing that these colleges in any way exclude certain groups.
Thanks for taking the time to explain Steph, I know black colleges do have people of all races allowed. However the "historical" reason for holding on to a name to depicts a painful time of segregation to me is hypocritical. If any school, business or other establishment kept displaying the signs that directed black people away or stated only white people were allowed there would be outrage.
If "we" are going to move past the hurt from those times, we ALL need to move past it. IMO
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| Posted 10/20/07 7:58 AM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
So back to my original point, you are not paying for the sins of your fathers. You are paying for the sins of your neighbors who think that white pride=white supremecy.
and all african american people can pay for the sins of al sharpton & jesse jackson. Who in my opinion have done more to foster & encourage racism & hate than any other people in this country.
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| Posted 10/20/07 8:00 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by Shelly
So back to my original point, you are not paying for the sins of your fathers. You are paying for the sins of your neighbors who think that white pride=white supremecy.
and all african american people can pay for the sins of al sharpton & jesse jackson. Who in my opinion have done more to foster & encourage racism & hate than any other people in this country.
exactly!
We all pay for the mistakes and extereme actions of those who are of our race, religion, nationality, country.
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| Posted 10/20/07 8:10 AM |
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Re: I really have to ask...
I know its not exactly sticking to the topic, but I wanted to share an experience I go through almost everyday...
Not a day goes by where people meet my DH, or see a picture of him, and try to ask in a tactful way, "What is he?" Meaning his ethnicity....
Now, DH was adpoted and until very recently wasn't even sure what he "was" - even now it's not really accurate... He gets the following guesses:
Native american (because of his dark skin and pony tail)
Hispanic
Greek
Middle Eastern (when we went to Thailand, we had a million plane rides... he was always the one picked for those "random" checks!!!)
People try very hard to categorize an individual. He always got a kick out of not knowing where he fell, and not being able to be categorized by anyone else!
also, I NEVER ever fill out the optional race selection portion of any application.
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| Posted 10/20/07 8:19 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by KellyFG
Posted by steph4777
Posted by KellyFG
I didn't read all of the replies, not even sure if we're still on topic but IMO its not right & I personally feel offended, insulted & like I'm being treated unfairly based on my race(white) when I see these types of things.
I truly feel it is discrimination & there is no amount of explaining the history of slavery that will change that for me. I am 3rd or 4th generation american, my ancestors weren't even on this continent when slavery was an active part of life here.
Another example is "Black Colleges", still alive & well in this country. I thought we are all "allowed" to go to school together now.
I've been reading this thread for the last two days and decided to stay out of it since I didn't feel I could add anything of real value to the topic. But when I saw this comment I had to respond.
I went to one of those "Black Colleges", which by the way are known as Historically Black Colleges and Universities. They needed to exist in a time when blacks weren't allowed in other universities. These schools were not created to exclude anyone, they were meant to provide quality (and affordable) education to anyone. While they may still be predominantly black, there are people of non-color enrolled.
Sorry Kelly, didn't mean to go off topic but I don't want people to believing that these colleges in any way exclude certain groups.
Thanks for taking the time to explain Steph, I know black colleges do have people of all races allowed. However the "historical" reason for holding on to a name to depicts a painful time of segregation to me is hypocritical. If any school, business or other establishment kept displaying the signs that directed black people away or stated only white people were allowed there would be outrage.
If "we" are going to move past the hurt from those times, we ALL need to move past it. IMO
I think there's something that we're missing here - there is a very significant difference between the *purpose* of an historically black college, and business who posted signs directing people of a certain color to stay out. THe business's purpose is clear - blatant discrimination while the other is to help those who are discriminated against. Because of the difference in purpose, I firmly believe that while one SHOULD dissipate, the other should continue to thrive UNTIL all vestiges of continuing discrimination are gone.
It's easy to say that we shouldn't pay for the sins of our ancestors, but the simple truth of the matter is that, while you feel it's unfair, it's just as unfair when you look at the cold hard statistics which show that minorities are STILL paying the price of what our ancestors did, each and everyday. You simply cannot remove the historical context from the world we are living in today.
Eventually, yes, all decisions, all institutions and all groups should have absolutely nothing to do with race, religion, sex or age. But, that simply cannot be until discrimination is completely wiped out of this society. Until then, we *need* mechanisms to uplift and assist those who are still feeling the very palpable effects of what happened in this country 40, 50, 60 years ago.[
Message edited 10/20/2007 9:39:08 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/07 9:37 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: I really have to ask...
Posted by Shelly
Wow!I really can't believe this is still going on.
But if someone asks why they have to pay fo the sins of their ancestors one more time, I may just
You are not paying for the sins of your ancestors, its the sin of your NEIGHBORS. Its not like white supremecy or racism is dead and buried with your ancestors. Its alive and thanks to the internet, its thriving. That is one of the reasons I posted the articles about racial violence. Its still happening in our own backyard! You don't know who thinks that way, from your neighbors, parents of your kids' friends', the people who work at the bank, etc.... I worked with a guy for years and one day we were talking about kids and he has 5. I said wow, that' a lot. His response- we have to keep the white race going.
And we all have to pay for the sins of our neighbors. Its universal. I don't love going to Europe and people thinking that I am some ignorant, conservative imperialist. I was completely embarassed while in italy I saw a bunch of Americans jump into the Fountain D'Trevi and start splashing one another (and everyone on the street) But Im american and whether I like it or not, the actions of other Americans effect the perceptions that people have about me.
Just like not every Parisian is rude, but some are, Parisians have to deal with others perception of that. Just like not all middle easterns are terrorists, every middle eastern at some point will have someone think they are. Helll my Israeli Jewish husband worries everytime we go on a plane he will get stopped because of his name and his looks.
But when you live in a society with others, you have to accept that people may initialy perceive you based, not only on the person you are, but whatever personal experiences and opinions they have. And lets be honest, we all do it. You hear someone is from some neighborhood, or does some job, or has some culture and you make assumptions about that person. Hopefully we are all openminded enough to let those assumptions change as we get to know the person.
So back to my original point, you are not paying for the sins of your fathers. You are paying for the sins of your neighbors who think that white pride=white supremecy.
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| Posted 10/20/07 9:57 AM |
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