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A different take on leaving a child in the car

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bpmom
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Thanks for sharing this article - it's interesting.

This paragraph struck me:
"Still, I worry. I worry that when my husband and I decide our kids are old enough to walk alone to school, be that in two years or in five, some good samaritan will disapprove and call the police. I worry what the other parents will think if I hang back on the bench while my kids are playing at the park, reading a book instead of hovering over them. I worry that if I let my son play in the alley with the other kids and don’t follow him down because there are already eight responsible adults standing around, I’ll be thought of as the slacker mom who’s not pulling her own. And so I accompany when I probably don’t need to. I supervise and hover and interfere. And at least half of the other parents are probably doing it for exactly the same reason. This is America and parenting is now a competitive sport, just like everything else."

In the past, I have made judgment calls to leave my kids in a car - Ideally I would not do it but I am VERY careful where it happens IF it happens. I've asked my friends in law enforcement about it many times, as well, and they all say they and their colleagues will try their best to make a good judgment call. But, I want to know what/how people do certain tasks without leaving their kids in the car. How do you pay cash for gas at one of these mega-sized gas stations? When it's blustery cold and snow is falling super fast -- do you drag all of your kids out in that to pay for gas to drive and heat your car? For me, I pay by credit but even that leaves my kids fighting inside the car. But if I was upset about paying $1 more/gallon for credit - I can see leaving the kids in the car to go pay for gas. What if you live in an apartment complex and your parking space is far from the front door, do you leave the kid in the car while you unload groceries or do you bring your child into your apartment/condo and then leave them home alone so you can go back to your car and unload your groceries? When you have more kids than you have hands to hold them - and they're not good at crossing the street because they're in their terrible two's or difficult three's -- do you risk them getting hit by a car while you do pre-school pick up or do you park right in front of the door and leave them for 30 sec while the teacher hands you the pre-schooler child? At Costco, do you leave your child in the cart/wagon while you unload your purchase in the car, then take the child with you to return the cart? Or do you put the child in the car seat first and then put your stuff in the car and return the cart, leaving the kid alone in the car while you cross the parking lot? I'm asking because I genuinely want to know what parents to do in these situations?

Posted 7/1/14 9:15 AM
 
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MichLiz213
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by bpmom

Thanks for sharing this article - it's interesting.

This paragraph struck me:
"Still, I worry. I worry that when my husband and I decide our kids are old enough to walk alone to school, be that in two years or in five, some good samaritan will disapprove and call the police. I worry what the other parents will think if I hang back on the bench while my kids are playing at the park, reading a book instead of hovering over them. I worry that if I let my son play in the alley with the other kids and don’t follow him down because there are already eight responsible adults standing around, I’ll be thought of as the slacker mom who’s not pulling her own. And so I accompany when I probably don’t need to. I supervise and hover and interfere. And at least half of the other parents are probably doing it for exactly the same reason. This is America and parenting is now a competitive sport, just like everything else."

In the past, I have made judgment calls to leave my kids in a car - Ideally I would not do it but I am VERY careful where it happens IF it happens. I've asked my friends in law enforcement about it many times, as well, and they all say they and their colleagues will try their best to make a good judgment call. But, I want to know what/how people do certain tasks without leaving their kids in the car. How do you pay cash for gas at one of these mega-sized gas stations? When it's blustery cold and snow is falling super fast -- do you drag all of your kids out in that to pay for gas to drive and heat your car? For me, I pay by credit but even that leaves my kids fighting inside the car. But if I was upset about paying $1 more/gallon for credit - I can see leaving the kids in the car to go pay for gas. What if you live in an apartment complex and your parking space is far from the front door, do you leave the kid in the car while you unload groceries or do you bring your child into your apartment/condo and then leave them home alone so you can go back to your car and unload your groceries? When you have more kids than you have hands to hold them - and they're not good at crossing the street because they're in their terrible two's or difficult three's -- do you risk them getting hit by a car while you do pre-school pick up or do you park right in front of the door and leave them for 30 sec while the teacher hands you the pre-schooler child? At Costco, do you leave your child in the cart/wagon while you unload your purchase in the car, then take the child with you to return the cart? Or do you put the child in the car seat first and then put your stuff in the car and return the cart, leaving the kid alone in the car while you cross the parking lot? I'm asking because I genuinely want to know what parents to do in these situations?




At the risk of sounding like one of those parents.....

Gas station is always Hess, they don't charge extra for using a card.

We live on the second floor, so I leave DS in the car, run groceries to the landing of the stairs, and then grab him. He's never out of sight.

And I already try to park near the cart returns.

My parenting style is also different from hers. If my 4-year-old demanded to come to the store and then decided he didn't want to go in, his choices would be he goes in and gets headphones, or we turn around, go home and no headphones.

Posted 7/1/14 9:27 AM
 

LIMomma
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Momma

A different take on leaving a child in the car

When I was little I climbed over the seat put the car in reverse and backed it down the driveway across the street and into the neighbors house.

Message edited 7/1/2014 9:42:49 AM.

Posted 7/1/14 9:42 AM
 

NervousNell
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..being a mommy and being a wife!

Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by LIMomma

When I was little I climbed over the seat put the car in reverse and backed it down the driveway across the street and into the neighbors house.



You can't do that on cars nowadays though. In order to get the car out of park you MUST step on the brake first or it stays locked in park.
It's a safety measure put into place for that very reason.

Posted 7/1/14 9:45 AM
 

Eireann
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by NervousNell

Posted by LIMomma

When I was little I climbed over the seat put the car in reverse and backed it down the driveway across the street and into the neighbors house.



You can't do that on cars nowadays though. In order to get the car out of park you MUST step on the brake first or it stays locked in park.
It's a safety measure put into place for that very reason.



Yes, and also a parent would have to leave the keys in the car with the car running...

Posted 7/1/14 9:54 AM
 

sfp0701
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by NervousNell

Posted by LIMomma

When I was little I climbed over the seat put the car in reverse and backed it down the driveway across the street and into the neighbors house.



You can't do that on cars nowadays though. In order to get the car out of park you MUST step on the brake first or it stays locked in park.
It's a safety measure put into place for that very reason.



THis happened to us also. Thank god they changed the cars. My mom was picking up my sister at a friends house. The family was on the front lawn but, my sister started throwing an epic tantrum and running down the sidewalk. My mom got out of the car to grab here and my brother jumped in the front seat and put the car in drive. Some well meaning bystander jumped in the car but, got the gas and brake mixed up. The car shot across the street and through someone's garage with all of us kids in the car. Stopped my sister's tantrum pretty quickly.

Posted 7/1/14 10:04 AM
 

seaside
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Member since 6/08

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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by bpmom

Thanks for sharing this article - it's interesting.

This paragraph struck me:
"Still, I worry. I worry that when my husband and I decide our kids are old enough to walk alone to school, be that in two years or in five, some good samaritan will disapprove and call the police. I worry what the other parents will think if I hang back on the bench while my kids are playing at the park, reading a book instead of hovering over them. I worry that if I let my son play in the alley with the other kids and don’t follow him down because there are already eight responsible adults standing around, I’ll be thought of as the slacker mom who’s not pulling her own. And so I accompany when I probably don’t need to. I supervise and hover and interfere. And at least half of the other parents are probably doing it for exactly the same reason. This is America and parenting is now a competitive sport, just like everything else."

In the past, I have made judgment calls to leave my kids in a car - Ideally I would not do it but I am VERY careful where it happens IF it happens. I've asked my friends in law enforcement about it many times, as well, and they all say they and their colleagues will try their best to make a good judgment call. But, I want to know what/how people do certain tasks without leaving their kids in the car. How do you pay cash for gas at one of these mega-sized gas stations? When it's blustery cold and snow is falling super fast -- do you drag all of your kids out in that to pay for gas to drive and heat your car? For me, I pay by credit but even that leaves my kids fighting inside the car. But if I was upset about paying $1 more/gallon for credit - I can see leaving the kids in the car to go pay for gas. What if you live in an apartment complex and your parking space is far from the front door, do you leave the kid in the car while you unload groceries or do you bring your child into your apartment/condo and then leave them home alone so you can go back to your car and unload your groceries? When you have more kids than you have hands to hold them - and they're not good at crossing the street because they're in their terrible two's or difficult three's -- do you risk them getting hit by a car while you do pre-school pick up or do you park right in front of the door and leave them for 30 sec while the teacher hands you the pre-schooler child? At Costco, do you leave your child in the cart/wagon while you unload your purchase in the car, then take the child with you to return the cart? Or do you put the child in the car seat first and then put your stuff in the car and return the cart, leaving the kid alone in the car while you cross the parking lot? I'm asking because I genuinely want to know what parents to do in these situations?



That paragraph struck me too. It sounds so passive aggressive, defensive, and like she's rationalizing. IMO, she should sound sorry and not much else. It's forgivable, until she starts sounding like she's still arguing that she was right and reasonable.

Posted 7/1/14 10:09 AM
 

Diane
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D

Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by beachgirl

DONT DO it!!! Just don't do it...nothing is that important...nothing...except for the life of your child. I see it all the time...when I am dropping my child off to school and I have been hauling my sons car seat in and out of the school when he was younger or getting him in and out when he started getting older in all sorts of weather ...while the other moms just parked...left the car running dropped their older child off and came back to their car and waiting child. I cannot understand this ...there are so many things that could happen. I could never forgive myself.

Stop being selfish people and put your kids safety first. So its a little inconvenient ....so its more convenient to just park and run in BUT the ramifications can be life changing so its not worth it.







Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 7/1/14 12:38 PM
 

lynnd126
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by beachgirl

DONT DO it!!! Just don't do it...nothing is that important...nothing...except for the life of your child. I see it all the time...when I am dropping my child off to school and I have been hauling my sons car seat in and out of the school when he was younger or getting him in and out when he started getting older in all sorts of weather ...while the other moms just parked...left the car running dropped their older child off and came back to their car and waiting child. I cannot understand this ...there are so many things that could happen. I could never forgive myself.

Stop being selfish people and put your kids safety first. So its a little inconvenient ....so its more convenient to just park and run in BUT the ramifications can be life changing so its not worth it.



But I think the point of the article is that statistically speaking it's sort of arbitrary but we are conditioned to think it's very dangerous. Obviously, this doesn't apply in heat. I'm just talking about a kidnapping type risk. So many things are like that though, it's just the way life is.

Posted 7/1/14 12:49 PM
 

MrsProfessor
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

I think so many parenting-related issues have gray areas, but to me, this isn't one of them. It's just not something I would ever do and I have no reason to ever do it.

Posted 7/1/14 12:51 PM
 

lynnd126
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by jessnbrian

When we were younger, my family would leave us in the car on our own all the time for a few minutes at a time... BUT we were probably 8 (me) & 5 (younger brother) at the youngest. I was old enough & knew how to unbuckle my brother from his booster seat (God forbid if something happened) and we were usually left the keys with the doors locked, so we could listen to music. We were never toddlers and it was never for more than 5 minutes, tops.

With that said, we were older, not a toddler. And back then, no one would have thought twice about it, no one ever did. You wouldn't have seen a passing bystander call the cops because of it. Times are totally different now, the world is totally different.

ETA: back then we would sit in the backseat of the station wagon (you know the way back seat, where you were looking out the rear windshield) and half the time we had our seatbelts on, half the time we didn't.




The world is not different though safety wise. That is just an illusion caused by media etc. The world definitely is different in that bystanders will call the police faster etc. And I'm not even saying that is necessarily wrong. You could be saving a life. I'm just saying that statistically the kid was most likely going to be fine, much much much more likely to get hurt while mom is driving, kwim? Again, barring the heat thing.

Message edited 7/1/2014 12:55:18 PM.

Posted 7/1/14 12:52 PM
 

MC09
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by Eire


In fact, I think one of the main points (among several) here is...
“There’s been this huge cultural shift. We now live in a society where most people believe a child can not be out of your sight for one second, where people think children need constant, total adult supervision. This shift is not rooted in fact. It’s not rooted in any true change. It’s imaginary. It’s rooted in irrational fear.”




I don't know that I'd be taking parenting advice from a woman who lets her 9 year old ride the subway alone with just a map and the kindness of strangers to guide him... and couldn't even be bothered to give the kid her cell phone in case he got lost because she didn't want to lose the cell phone... so losing the cell phone? very big deal! Losing the kid? Not so big a deal.

She's absolutely right. We should just remove all the car seats, child safety locks, latches, baby gates, electrical outlet covers, monitors, and let darwinism play out. This lady is an ass.

Posted 7/1/14 7:56 PM
 

Jugglemom
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by MC09

Posted by Eire


In fact, I think one of the main points (among several) here is...
“There’s been this huge cultural shift. We now live in a society where most people believe a child can not be out of your sight for one second, where people think children need constant, total adult supervision. This shift is not rooted in fact. It’s not rooted in any true change. It’s imaginary. It’s rooted in irrational fear.”




I don't know that I'd be taking parenting advice from a woman who lets her 9 year old ride the subway alone with just a map and the kindness of strangers to guide him... and couldn't even be bothered to give the kid her cell phone in case he got lost because she didn't want to lose the cell phone... so losing the cell phone? very big deal! Losing the kid? Not so big a deal.

She's absolutely right. We should just remove all the car seats, child safety locks, latches, baby gates, electrical outlet covers, monitors, and let darwinism play out. This lady is an ass.




I agree that the subway mom is a little extreme and cavalier however, I do believe that the pendulum has swung in the complete opposite direction in terms of how we overprotect out kids. For instance, with the exception of a few outlet covers I did not baby proof my house. Instead, I gave my children boundaries, supervised them, taught them the word no and taught them consequences all from the time they could crawl. Any do you know what? They learned it. They knew they couldn't go up the stairs, or play with the Christmas ornaments etc.

Posted 7/1/14 9:15 PM
 

IVFmiracle
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

See this is a question I have always contemplated asking on here but was too afraid to start a debate which is where do you draw the line?
I am guilty of leaving DD in the car when I go pay for gas. I usually pay cash so that means I lock the doors and go inside. I just don't see a reason to pay more for credit when I always have cash on me. Sometimes I pick up a banana or a pack of gum.

However, if I get hungry while driving but don't need gas, I'm not going to stop to pick up a banana and leave DD in the car. Why do I feel one is ok but not the other.

Posted 7/1/14 9:31 PM
 

Eireann
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Funny, I thought of this post again yesterday afternoon. I was with my three kids (8, 7, 3) and I drove to Bell Blvd (which I'm sure most of you know is a busy commercial strip in Bayside) to meet up with people to watch the World Cup.

I parked the car and went alone to put money in the meter which was at least three car lengths away. I try to put money in, it's broken and tells me to pay with a card. Now I'm fumbling in my bag taking out my card. Put it in once, the machine can't read it; put it in again, it gets stuck. Now I'm freaking out trying to get it unstuck, so this takes some time. It comes out finally. Now I've got to look for a new meter--the next closest one is across the street and several car lengths away. I say 'F it' because of the kids and because of missing the World Cup Chat Icon When I return, I have a $35 ticket.

So I was imagining the same thing happening to me as happened to the author. It could have taken the same amount of time, the difference being I could see the car (but maybe she could too?). Would someone be justified in calling the cops? (What if they saw them in the bar with me later? Chat Icon) Should I have taken them out? I personally wouldn't, but should I have? Compelling...

Posted 7/2/14 7:35 AM
 

MrsT809
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Just came across this on yahoo and it made me think of the pp. A mother left her 2 year old and infant in the car to go pay the meter. She left the car off but keys in the ignition (stupid!) and the 2 year old managed to lock the doors while she was out of the car. The police ended up having to break the windows with a sledgehammer. It was mentioned on here a few times that cars can't easily be knocked into drive bc you need to have your foot on the break but here's an example of why not to leave the kids in with the keys in the car.

article

I remember when I was a teenager and was babysitting my cousins we were playing out front. I hated being left out front with them bc my cousin with down syndrome would refuse to go inside and it was nearly impossible to get her to do something she didn't want to. Somehow she got into my uncle's van, locked the doors, and kept putting the keys up to the ignition. Thankfully every time she did that we would scream and she would pull them back. After what seemed like an eternity, a lot of pleading, and offering every treat under the sun she finally unlocked the doors. It was awful!

Posted 7/2/14 8:36 AM
 

Salason

Member since 6/05

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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by Eireann

Funny, I thought of this post again yesterday afternoon. I was with my three kids (8, 7, 3) and I drove to Bell Blvd (which I'm sure most of you know is a busy commercial strip in Bayside) to meet up with people to watch the World Cup.

I parked the car and went alone to put money in the meter which was at least three car lengths away. I try to put money in, it's broken and tells me to pay with a card. Now I'm fumbling in my bag taking out my card. Put it in once, the machine can't read it; put it in again, it gets stuck. Now I'm freaking out trying to get it unstuck, so this takes some time. It comes out finally. Now I've got to look for a new meter--the next closest one is across the street and several car lengths away. I say 'F it' because of the kids and because of missing the World Cup Chat Icon When I return, I have a $35 ticket.

So I was imagining the same thing happening to me as happened to the author. It could have taken the same amount of time, the difference being I could see the car (but maybe she could too?). Would someone be justified in calling the cops? (What if they saw them in the bar with me later? Chat Icon) Should I have taken them out? I personally wouldn't, but should I have? Compelling...



This struck me because I'd have done the same as you thinking it'd be safer to have 3 kids in a car on Bell Blvd if you had to tend to a meter than have 3 kids on a major road that you couldnt pay full attention to until the meter was filled KWIM? But theoretically somebody could have called the cops on you for that and that seems a little crazy to me...

Posted 7/2/14 9:12 AM
 

Katareen
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by MichLiz213

My parenting style is also different from hers. If my 4-year-old demanded to come to the store and then decided he didn't want to go in, his choices would be he goes in and gets headphones, or we turn around, go home and no headphones.



This is exactly true. Why are these parents letting their toddlers/preschoolers call the shots? And then wonder why these kids are growing up so entitled and spoiled?

Sorry but I'm the Mom and what I say goes. If I say we're going in the store, we're going in the store. And if you act up, you don't get the headphones. End of story.

Posted 7/2/14 9:51 AM
 

Loveme
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

If I'm going to the store to get my kid something (IMO a luxury bc he doesn't need headphones) and he won't come in the store with me to buy them, then my car is turning around and going home. Who is the parent here?

In regards to leaving a kid in the car to run in a store, no, I would never do it. What if someone hijacks your car? What if another car loses control and comes crashing into yours? Too many what ifs.

Posted 7/2/14 10:34 AM
 

Chatham-Chick
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by Loveme

...

In regards to leaving a kid in the car to run in a store, no, I would never do it. What if someone hijacks your car? What if another car loses control and comes crashing into yours? Too many what ifs.



What if someone if someone loses control while you're walking through a parking lot? Or while you're walking on a sidewalk? The world is full of "what ifs". (And your child is probably safer in a vehicle strapped in a car seat in situations just mentioned.) "What if my child drowns?" hasn't stopped parents from putting in pools.

As parents, its our job to do risk assessment with every situation.

FWIW just because a vehicle is running, it doesn't mean the keys are still in the ignition. There are after market remote systems that allow you to keep the vehicle running while removing the keys so you can lock the vehicle. They also give you alerts (key fob and/or via app on your cell) when someone tries to open a door, there's motion, etc..

Message edited 7/2/2014 12:23:38 PM.

Posted 7/2/14 12:12 PM
 

Sash
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fka LIW Smara

A different take on leaving a child in the car

I didn't read the article because I'm lazy. However, I have left my kid in the car while going to the ATM and only if there is no line and the car is right in front of me.

However, I never leave him in the car to run into a store or anything like that, but that's because my mom used to leave us in the car all the time as a kid and it S ucked!! Till this day I hate waiting in the car for more than 2 minutes for anyone.

I also agree if he doesn't want to get out of the car to buy himself something then he can kiss my butt and we are going home.

My sister is a "what if" person and we are always at it because I tell her if I lived my life like that my son would never do anything or become independent!

Message edited 7/2/2014 12:24:02 PM.

Posted 7/2/14 12:22 PM
 

MarisaK
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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Honestly? THIS is exactly the reaon I do and do not do alot of things - because nosey people w/ nothing better to do don't know how to mind their own damn business.

I once left my boys in the car (both sleeping in their carseats) AND my Yorkie.
I cracked the windows, turned off the ignition, took the keys and locked the car -
The car was parked in front of the drycleaners - Like on the curb, not in the parking lot - I stood at the open door 4 feet from my car and dealt w/ the guy re: my drycleaning ...........some moron had the audacity to get in my face because I "left my kids and the dog in the car" .........

In Toys R Us my son was throwing a fit. Out of control. I took the toy I promised to buy for him, put it back on the shelf and spanked him - right there, in front of whomever wanted to watch - I did not BEAT him, I spanked him - YOU KNOW there was that jackass woman who told me I shouldn't hit my child blah blah blah ..........I told her I was raising a man, not a self important entitled loser and she'd thank me in 20 years when he held the door for her and gave up his seat on the train and knew how to behave appopriately, and to mind her own business.

SOME people are well intentioned, but I find that with most that stick their nose where it's not needed, they are simply conforntational - or looking to post their story on freakin' Facebook like "Oh LOOK what I did today - I'm SUCH a GOOD PERSON .........I just COULDN'T LIVE w/ myself if something bad happened .........." cue their 452 friends commenting on how WONDERFUL they are and how LUCKY that child was that they were there to save them from their certain death .........Chat Icon

No one ever thinks about how their nosing around and calling the cops or CPS can affect a family - an INNOCENT family .........

Message edited 7/2/2014 1:07:18 PM.

Posted 7/2/14 1:06 PM
 

Chatham-Chick
*********************

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Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

I understand why the woman called the cops. How did she know how long the child had been sitting there? Nor did she know how long the child was going to continue to sit there. So I don't blame her for that. (I read the blog/article a while ago, so I don't recall the details.)

It's the laws that disappoint me: the judgement by both the officer and the judge who handed down her sentence. It would be a different story if the woman had come out with a grocery cart of groceries or like other recent headlines, spent time in a tanning salon.

Message edited 7/2/2014 1:19:32 PM.

Posted 7/2/14 1:16 PM
 

MarisaK
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Marisa

Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by Chatham-Chick

I understand why the woman called the cops. How did she know how long the child had been sitting there? Nor did she know how long the child was going to continue to sit there. So I don't blame her for that.

It's the laws that disappoint me: the judgement by both the officer and the judge who handed down her sentence. It would be a different story if the woman had come out with a grocery cart of groceries or like other recent headlines, spent time in a tanning salon.



I see your point.

Posted 7/2/14 1:18 PM
 

RocPin
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Heather

Re: A different take on leaving a child in the car

Posted by MarisaK

Honestly? THIS is exactly the reaon I do and do not do alot of things - because nosey people w/ nothing better to do don't know how to mind their own damn business.

I once left my boys in the car (both sleeping in their carseats) AND my Yorkie.
I cracked the windows, turned off the ignition, took the keys and locked the car -
The car was parked in front of the drycleaners - Like on the curb, not in the parking lot - I stood at the open door 4 feet from my car and dealt w/ the guy re: my drycleaning ...........some moron had the audacity to get in my face because I "left my kids and the dog in the car" .........

In Toys R Us my son was throwing a fit. Out of control. I took the toy I promised to buy for him, put it back on the shelf and spanked him - right there, in front of whomever wanted to watch - I did not BEAT him, I spanked him - YOU KNOW there was that jackass woman who told me I shouldn't hit my child blah blah blah ..........I told her I was raising a man, not a self important entitled loser and she'd thank me in 20 years when he held the door for her and gave up his seat on the train and knew how to behave appopriately, and to mind her own business.

SOME people are well intentioned, but I find that with most that stick their nose where it's not needed, they are simply conforntational - or looking to post their story on freakin' Facebook like "Oh LOOK what I did today - I'm SUCH a GOOD PERSON .........I just COULDN'T LIVE w/ myself if something bad happened .........." cue their 452 friends commenting on how WONDERFUL they are and how LUCKY that child was that they were there to save them from their certain death .........Chat Icon

No one ever thinks about how their nosing around and calling the cops or CPS can affect a family - an INNOCENT family .........



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P.S. I love what you said to that lady in the toy store. Bravo!Chat Icon

Posted 7/2/14 1:19 PM
 
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