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Do you agree with SB1070

Forum Opinion Poll
Yes 91 65.00%
No 34 24.29%
Don't know enough to vote 14 10.00%
Other 1 0.71%
 

Arizona Law SB1070

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MissRadiant
Happily Ever After

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N

Arizona Law SB1070

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/politics/24immig.html

Arizona Enacts Stringent Law on Immigration
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
PHOENIX — Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed the nation’s toughest bill on illegal immigration into law on Friday. Its aim is to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants.

The move unleashed immediate protests and reignited the divisive battle over immigration reform nationally.

Even before she signed the bill at an afternoon news conference here, President Obama strongly criticized it.

Speaking at a naturalization ceremony for 24 active-duty service members in the Rose Garden, he called for a federal overhaul of immigration laws, which Congressional leaders signaled they were preparing to take up soon, to avoid “irresponsibility by others.”

The Arizona law, he added, threatened “to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.”

The law, which proponents and critics alike said was the broadest and strictest immigration measure in generations, would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime and give the police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. Opponents have called it an open invitation for harassment and discrimination against Hispanics regardless of their citizenship status.

The political debate leading up to Ms. Brewer’s decision, and Mr. Obama’s criticism of the law — presidents very rarely weigh in on state legislation — underscored the power of the immigration debate in states along the Mexican border. It presaged the polarizing arguments that await the president and Congress as they take up the issue nationally.

Mexico’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it was worried about the rights of its citizens and relations with Arizona. Cardinal Roger M. Mahony of Los Angeles said the authorities’ ability to demand documents was like “Nazism.”

As hundreds of demonstrators massed, mostly peacefully, at the capitol plaza, the governor, speaking at a state building a few miles away, said the law “represents another tool for our state to use as we work to solve a crisis we did not create and the federal government has refused to fix.”

The law was to take effect 90 days after the legislative session ends, meaning by August. Court challenges were expected immediately.

Hispanics, in particular, who were not long ago courted by the Republican Party as a swing voting bloc, railed against the law as a recipe for racial and ethnic profiling. “Governor Brewer caved to the radical fringe,” a statement by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund said, predicting that the law would create “a spiral of pervasive fear, community distrust, increased crime and costly litigation, with nationwide repercussions.”

While police demands of documents are common on subways, highways and in public places in some countries, including France, Arizona is the first state to demand that immigrants meet federal requirements to carry identity documents legitimizing their presence on American soil.

Ms. Brewer acknowledged critics’ concerns, saying she would work to ensure that the police have proper training to carry out the law. But she sided with arguments by the law’s sponsors that it provides an indispensable tool for the police in a border state that is a leading magnet of illegal immigration. She said racial profiling would not be tolerated, adding, “We have to trust our law enforcement.”

Ms. Brewer and other elected leaders have come under intense political pressure here, made worse by the killing of a rancher in southern Arizona by a suspected smuggler a couple of weeks before the State Legislature voted on the bill. His death was invoked Thursday by Ms. Brewer herself, as she announced a plan urging the federal government to post National Guard troops at the border.

President George W. Bush had attempted comprehensive reform but failed when his own party split over the issue. Once again, Republicans facing primary challenges from the right, including Ms. Brewer and Senator John McCain, have come under tremendous pressure to support the Arizona law, known as SB 1070.

Mr. McCain, locked in a primary with a challenger campaigning on immigration, only came out in support of the law hours before the State Senate passed it Monday afternoon.

Governor Brewer, even after the Senate passed the bill, had been silent on whether she would sign it. Though she was widely expected to, given her primary challenge, she refused to state her position even at a dinner on Thursday for a Hispanic social service organization, Chicanos Por La Causa, where several audience members called out “Veto!”

Among other things, the Arizona measure is an extraordinary rebuke to former Gov. Janet Napolitano, who had vetoed similar legislation repeatedly as a Democratic governor of the state before being appointed Homeland Security secretary by Mr. Obama.

The law opens a deep fissure in Arizona, with a majority of the thousands of callers to the governor’s office urging her to reject it.

In the days leading up to Ms. Brewer’s decision, Representative Raúl M. Grijalva, a Democrat, called for a convention boycott of his state.

The bill, sponsored by Russell Pearce, a state senator and a firebrand on immigration issues, has several provisions.

It requires police officers, “when practicable,” to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and to verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.

It also makes it a state crime — a misdemeanor — to not carry immigration papers. In addition, it allows people to sue local government or agencies if they believe federal or state immigration law is not being enforced.

States across the country have proposed or enacted hundreds of bills addressing immigration since 2007, the last time a federal effort to reform immigration law collapsed. Last year, there were a record number of laws enacted (222) and resolutions (131) in 48 states, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

The prospect of plunging into a national immigration debate is being increasingly talked about on Capitol Hill, spurred in part by recent statements by Senator Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, the majority leader, that he intends to bring legislation to the Senate floor after Memorial Day.

But while an immigration debate could help energize Hispanic voters and provide political benefits to embattled Democrats seeking re-election in November — like Mr. Reid — it could also energize conservative voters.

It could also take time from other Democratic priorities, including an energy measure that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has described as her flagship issue.

Mr. Reid declined Thursday to say that immigration would take precedence over an energy measure. But he called it an imperative: “The system is broken,” he said.

Ms. Pelosi and Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the majority leader, have said that the House would be willing to take up immigration policy only if the Senate produces a bill first.
____________________________

Thoughts????

Posted 5/3/10 10:25 AM
 

MissRadiant
Happily Ever After

Member since 9/08

2534 total posts

Name:
N

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Well, I will answer my own question.

No I do not agree with this, and this is a way to make racial profiling legal. I am disgusted that this passed.

ETA: What's next.... separate but equal?

Message edited 5/3/2010 10:41:55 AM.

Posted 5/3/10 10:41 AM
 

DiamondGirl
You are my I love you

Member since 7/09

18802 total posts

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DiamondMama

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by MissRadiant

Well, I will answer my own question.

No I do not agree with this, and this is a way to make racial profiling legal. I am disgusted that this passed.



Ditto.

I am truly surprised.

Posted 5/3/10 10:46 AM
 

neenie

Member since 5/05

22351 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

This is not a new law- its been a federal law for a long time. It seems like Arizona is just taking it upon themselves to strictly enforce it now.


Section 264 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states, "Every alien in the United States . . . shall be issued a certificate of alien registration or an alien registration receipt card in such form and manner and at such time as shall be prescribed under regulations . . ." It also says, "Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him . . .. Any alien who fails to comply with [these provisions] shall be guilty of a misdemeanor..."




I don't know exactly how i feel about it... there's certainly a scarey part of it that echos "you Vill show me your papers".. and we all know how that turned out. But, what IS the answer? The law isn't anything new though.

Posted 5/3/10 10:50 AM
 

MissRadiant
Happily Ever After

Member since 9/08

2534 total posts

Name:
N

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by neenie

This is not a new law- its been a federal law for a long time. It seems like Arizona is just taking it upon themselves to strictly enforce it now.


Section 264 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states, "Every alien in the United States . . . shall be issued a certificate of alien registration or an alien registration receipt card in such form and manner and at such time as shall be prescribed under regulations . . ." It also says, "Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him . . .. Any alien who fails to comply with [these provisions] shall be guilty of a misdemeanor..."




I don't know exactly how i feel about it... there's certainly a scarey part of it that echos "you Vill show me your papers".. and we all know how that turned out. But, what IS the answer? The law isn't anything new though.



You're right but the difference between that and what is going on now, is that now law enforcement has the right to stop people just to ask them for their id. Normally what happens now, is that if you are driving and get pulled over they ask for license and registration- if you don't have your license or proper identification then you can be issued a summons. Meaning to say that in order to be asked for ID you must warrant a reason to be stopped in the first place.

Posted 5/3/10 10:54 AM
 

YouDontKnowMe
LIF Zygote

Member since 6/08

2 total posts

Name:
Kerri

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this law. I think it's basically a federal law that they plan to be strict about... I think they should ID EVERYONE though and not just people that might be Mexican. That makes me nuts.

From my understanding based on a situation I was a part of when Bush was on Long Island and I got stopped on college campus it is some kind of federal law that requires you to have ID on you at all times. If you are stopped and do not have ID you can be detained until you can provide proof of who you are. There do not need a reason to ask you for ID, they can do it just b/c they want to and it's the law to have it on you.



Posted 5/3/10 12:05 PM
 

DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!

Member since 1/07

9534 total posts

Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by MissRadiant

Posted by neenie

This is not a new law- its been a federal law for a long time. It seems like Arizona is just taking it upon themselves to strictly enforce it now.


Section 264 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states, "Every alien in the United States . . . shall be issued a certificate of alien registration or an alien registration receipt card in such form and manner and at such time as shall be prescribed under regulations . . ." It also says, "Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him . . .. Any alien who fails to comply with [these provisions] shall be guilty of a misdemeanor..."




I don't know exactly how i feel about it... there's certainly a scarey part of it that echos "you Vill show me your papers".. and we all know how that turned out. But, what IS the answer? The law isn't anything new though.



You're right but the difference between that and what is going on now, is that now law enforcement has the right to stop people just to ask them for their id. Normally what happens now, is that if you are driving and get pulled over they ask for license and registration- if you don't have your license or proper identification then you can be issued a summons. Meaning to say that in order to be asked for ID you must warrant a reason to be stopped in the first place.



I'm not so sure law enforcement can just randomly stop people to ask for their ID. The bill (now law) says (I just hit cut and paste, so that is the reason for all caps):

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

The law is much deeper than this . . . it also makes it a crime to pick up day laborers - and the person who gets fined is the US Citizen picking up the day laborer IN ADDITION to all the other stuff about verifying alien status of the day laborer.

Posted 5/3/10 12:05 PM
 

Cheeks24
Living a dream

Member since 1/08

8589 total posts

Name:
Cheeks

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

I don't know too much about this law, but I do know that many people don't realize how bad the situation is in Arizona. (I'm not defending this law, just stating facts.) I am completely against illegal immigration. My father and his family emigrated here legally and so should everyone else.

Here in NY many illegal immigrants are day laborers. In Arizona they are drug dealers working for the drug cartel. These animals kill innocent people - women, children, babies, etc., just to save their a$$. They kill the CBP who protect our borders. It really is a horrible situation down there.

Posted 5/3/10 12:35 PM
 

neenie

Member since 5/05

22351 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by Mici C
Here in NY many illegal immigrants are day laborers. In Arizona they are drug dealers working for the drug cartel. These animals kill innocent people - women, children, babies, etc., just to save their a$$. They kill the CBP who protect our borders. It really is a horrible situation down there.



Exactly. Again, i'm not 100% sure of my feelings on them enforcing this, but i am fairly certain that they didn't decide to take such drastic measures because there was too much spackling going on in the streets of AZ.

Posted 5/3/10 2:19 PM
 

JessInCA
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Member since 8/06

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Jess

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by MissRadiant
You're right but the difference between that and what is going on now, is that now law enforcement has the right to stop people just to ask them for their id.



They updated the law so that isn't true anymore:

"Additionally, the Arizona law does not empower police with any more authority to stop individuals or any additional authority to question individuals about their immigration status... Instead, the Arizona law directs the police to inquire about immigration status only after a lawful stop, arrest, or detention, and then only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal alien. (HB 2162, amending SB 1070)."

Source: U.S. Legislative Immigration Update

Message edited 5/3/2010 4:33:43 PM.

Posted 5/3/10 4:33 PM
 

CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!

Member since 10/07

4937 total posts

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Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by Mici C

I don't know too much about this law, but I do know that many people don't realize how bad the situation is in Arizona. (I'm not defending this law, just stating facts.) I am completely against illegal immigration. My father and his family emigrated here legally and so should everyone else.

Here in NY many illegal immigrants are day laborers. In Arizona they are drug dealers working for the drug cartel. These animals kill innocent people - women, children, babies, etc., just to save their a$$. They kill the CBP who protect our borders. It really is a horrible situation down there.



Exactly. Do I agree with this law 100%? No, but I do think that something needs to be done. I am strongly against illegal immigration. My family came here legally, some at different times because that was the way it had to be done. These people are no better and should do the same.

Posted 5/3/10 4:41 PM
 

04bride
I'm a big sister!!!

Member since 5/05

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Name:
Noel

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Just curious, if this is not the answer then what is the suggested alternative?

Message edited 5/3/2010 4:49:44 PM.

Posted 5/3/10 4:49 PM
 

MissingLI
Such a Big Boy!

Member since 1/06

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C

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Just wanted to give you some perspective from someone who actually lives in Arizona.

I've been here 7 years, my family longer. Things here where illegal immigration is concerned are a mess.

My FH is a Sgt in the Sheriff's department. He has been in the Dept for 10 years and is currently in Internal Affairs. He has read the law over backwards and forwards. In no part of the law does it describe anything different than what they do now. the only difference is that now instead of having to call ICE (an immigration dept) they can arrest the person directly.

I repeat - THIS IS THE ONLY CHANGE TO THE LAW!!!!

Everyone keeps talking about racial profiling and all that. Could it happen - sure. Will it happen - maybe by some cops that are not on the up and up. But the point is that this law is really no different than what is already in place here. It just cuts out a middle man. They now have the power to arrest directly and book. ICE can then come and pick up to arrange deportation.

Just thought I'd give a little input from this side of things.

Posted 5/3/10 5:47 PM
 

headoverheels
s'il vous plaît

Member since 6/07

42079 total posts

Name:
LB

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by Mici C

I don't know too much about this law, but I do know that many people don't realize how bad the situation is in Arizona. (I'm not defending this law, just stating facts.) I am completely against illegal immigration. My father and his family emigrated here legally and so should everyone else.

Here in NY many illegal immigrants are day laborers. In Arizona they are drug dealers working for the drug cartel. These animals kill innocent people - women, children, babies, etc., just to save their a$$. They kill the CBP who protect our borders. It really is a horrible situation down there.



Yes, yes, yes! Exactly - this isn't about illegal aliens "taking our jobs." In Arizona it's a matter of life and death.

I'm going to cut and paste from an earlier post, since I am lazy (keep in mind it references a different article than the one posted by the OP):

Posted by headoverheels

I think that what a lot of people fail to understand is how incredibly dangerous it is for the officers who protect the border in Arizona. They are constantly in fear for their lives both of illegal immigrants and drug traffickers, some of whom are attempting to do both. People KILL OFFICERS just to be able to come to live in the US. This bill is meant to serve as a deterrent against people coming into the US illegally, which they most often do through AZ and Texas.

This article is obviously slanted against the senator who wrote this bill and is NOT focusing on the most important piece:

Posted by brownie

The bill makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers, requires the police “when practicable” to check the immigration status of people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally and allows people to sue cities and counties if the law is not being enforced.




What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.

Posted 5/3/10 6:09 PM
 

CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!

Member since 10/07

4937 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by headoverheels

What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.




This pretty much sums it up for me.

Posted 5/3/10 8:15 PM
 

MissRadiant
Happily Ever After

Member since 9/08

2534 total posts

Name:
N

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Thank you for sharing this.

Posted by MissingLI

Just wanted to give you some perspective from someone who actually lives in Arizona.

I've been here 7 years, my family longer. Things here where illegal immigration is concerned are a mess.

My FH is a Sgt in the Sheriff's department. He has been in the Dept for 10 years and is currently in Internal Affairs. He has read the law over backwards and forwards. In no part of the law does it describe anything different than what they do now. the only difference is that now instead of having to call ICE (an immigration dept) they can arrest the person directly.

I repeat - THIS IS THE ONLY CHANGE TO THE LAW!!!!

Everyone keeps talking about racial profiling and all that. Could it happen - sure. Will it happen - maybe by some cops that are not on the up and up. But the point is that this law is really no different than what is already in place here. It just cuts out a middle man. They now have the power to arrest directly and book. ICE can then come and pick up to arrange deportation.

Just thought I'd give a little input from this side of things.

Posted 5/3/10 8:21 PM
 

Diana712
RIP my beloved Brother Richard

Member since 5/07

6710 total posts

Name:
Diana

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

I agree with it.. I would like to know if the LEGAL immigrant who ent through all the proper steps to become Legal minds this law? I cant imagine they would be bothered? all they have to do is show ID? No? am I missing something? Are they arrested anyway if they have no ID but are legal? Thats the only question I have.. Chat Icon

Posted 5/3/10 8:30 PM
 

MissRadiant
Happily Ever After

Member since 9/08

2534 total posts

Name:
N

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by Diana712

I agree with it.. I would like to know if the LEGAL immigrant who ent through all the proper steps to become Legal minds this law? I cant imagine they would be bothered? all they have to do is show ID? No? am I missing something? Are they arrested anyway if they have no ID but are legal? Thats the only question I have.. Chat Icon



To me the issue is not with showing the ID, it is the racial profiling that will occur as a result of this law. Why should one American be profiled bc of how he or she looks? Are we not all American? If the person does something wrong then at that time of course ask them for I'd because this is what you would do with anyone. I just don't agree with laws that do not apply to all only to a select few.

I am not arguing if illegal immigrants should be deported or these animals that are committing these crimes should be punished. I just didn't agree when I understood that the law would allow racial profiling without reason.

Posted 5/3/10 8:49 PM
 

browneyedgirl
family is all that matters

Member since 6/06

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browneyes

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by Renee615

Posted by headoverheels

What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.




This pretty much sums it up for me.


same here. i 100% support it

Posted 5/3/10 9:11 PM
 

brownie
Baby #1 is here!

Member since 11/08

13903 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

It's a FEDERAL law, therefore the fed gov't should handle those who are arrested...not local cops. I posted this last week.

click

Posted 5/3/10 9:12 PM
 

eddiesmommy
best buds!

Member since 5/09

11524 total posts

Name:
Melissa

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

I dont agree with the bill, but I dont necessarily blame the lawmakers of Arizona for passing it, as misguided as it is. I think its more to be used as a wake up call for the federal government.

I posted this in response to another post last week, so will just C&P.


"I still think that the federal government needs to get their act together on an Immigration Bill, they attempted and failed in 2007 and that has only let the problem escalate.

I also think, that the National Guard needs to be at OUR borders, particularly in Texas and Arizona...where law enforcement are in danger, they are outnumbered and outgunned by cartels who have no regard for their life. So much so, that there are grass root organizations of civilians taking to our borders, doing the job the federal government should be doing (or should have done) in the first place. The violence of border countries are spilling into the streets of ours....I say get the national guard down there first and foremost.

Not to mention a sweeping bill could eliminate clearly misguided state acts like Arizona's. The courts allow for states to enact their own immigration laws as long as they do not conflict with a direct federal law. (which yes, this bill probably does) An immigration bill that finally gets passed in the senate and addresses these issues would eliminate the need for a state to enact such drastic measures to do what it feels necessary to protect itself from the worst of the worst.

I think Arizona's bill (while it obviously does affect all illegal immigrants) was a reaction to make its borders safer, and not from mothers wanting better lives for their children, but from cartels and mules. People in drastic situations, who feel like they've been backed into a corner will take drastic measures when their safety is at stake. I can't say that if I lived in a crime and violence ridden border town as a result of lax immigration laws and border control, that I wouldn't support this bill as is.

Its easy for me to say that it's constitutionally wrong, that it gives way to racism and profiling......when my immediate safety isn't at stake on a daily basis. I don't agree with the bill, but I cant blame them. "

Posted 5/3/10 9:13 PM
 

neenie

Member since 5/05

22351 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by MissRadiant
Are we not all American?



No, we're not. I think that's why there's this whole issue going on in AZ right now Chat Icon

Posted 5/3/10 10:32 PM
 

Diana712
RIP my beloved Brother Richard

Member since 5/07

6710 total posts

Name:
Diana

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by neenie

Posted by MissRadiant
Are we not all American?



No, we're not. I think that's why there's this whole issue going on in AZ right now Chat Icon



Chat Icon EXACTLY!!!

Posted 5/3/10 10:33 PM
 

Erica
LIF Adult

Member since 5/05

11767 total posts

Name:

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

The biggest reason I am against it is because of Joe Arpaio.

Second, Arizona borders are actually not the violent borders. I have passed through Lukeville, AZ and through Sonoyta, MX at least 50 times and I have never felt unsafe.

The problem areas are Tijuana and Mexicali (CA border) and Juarez (TX border). I would have put Nogales in there, but that seems to not be the case and El Paso is ranked one of the safest cities in America

Third, My MIL (a US citizen) lives in AZ with an accent, she's discriminated enough by people who have been alive less than she has been citizen.


Posted 5/4/10 12:19 AM
 

rojerono
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Member since 8/06

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Name:
Jeannie

Re: Arizona Law SB1070

Posted by MissingLI
In no part of the law does it describe anything different than what they do now. the only difference is that now instead of having to call ICE (an immigration dept) they can arrest the person directly.

I repeat - THIS IS THE ONLY CHANGE TO THE LAW!!!!



If this is true, than I support the change. BUT.. I would still like to know more about this law before I am willing to vote that I support it. I voted that I didn't know enough to vote.

Message edited 5/4/2010 6:26:12 AM.

Posted 5/4/10 6:18 AM
 
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