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maybebaby
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Maureen
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
i'm really shocked by how many catholics are against the church's view on abortion.
I'm always pretty shocked by this too although I shouldn't be. I always feel I'm in the eternal minority on that issue, lol...
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Posted 1/16/08 1:48 PM  |
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lucyloo
nope
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
i'm really shocked by how many catholics are against the church's view on abortion.
Abortion as a form of birth control disgusts me. Multiple abortions disgust me as well.
But what about cases of incest? Rape? Drug addicts?
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:50 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by dita
Posted by BlueDiamonds
Just to clarify, the church is not against all birth control. they approve of natural birth control (or family planning). i'm assuming that most people are not happy about their stance on artificial birth control. just wanted to throw that out there to clarify. i know it gets a bad rap but natural family planning (if followed correctly) is VERY effective birth control.
Not really. That's how I came to be. 
I don't practice NFP, but honestly she is right...its very effective if done correctly. By charting, temps etc...it just takes restraint and knowing your body. If you are someone who ovulates pretty much like clockwork it is almost foolproof. But if your cycle is all over the place, then this method woudln't be for you...
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:50 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
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And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by SweetTooth
Posted by JenniferEver
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
Separate but equal bothers me.
What i think is that ONLY religious institutions should grant marriages. And the government grants civil unions. That would be true separation b/w church and state. it can still be combined in one ceremony, like at a catholic wedding for example, but LEGALLY it's a civil union no matter who you are..the distinction of "marriage" is given by the religious organization.
I am not Catholic, but was reading this thread out of curiousity, and had to respond.
So what you are saying is that if a couple does not have a wedding ceremony in a religious institution, then that should not be considered marriage but a civil union? Then a couple married by a judge in a courthouse or an interfaith minister in a garden would not be married, but have a civil union?
I don't really understand why semantics have to play a part. If all couples, of whatever sexual orientation they are, join together and all recieve the same rights, then what does it matter if its called a marriage or a civil union?
Married is just a word. To follow the word of Shakespeare, if it was called by another name would it really be different?
where the ceremony takes place means nothing to me
what i'm saying is that there should be 2 different words. One to denote a male/female bond, and one to denote a same sex bond.
And the reason it matters to me is because in catholicism, marriage is considered a sacrament, a bond between a man and a woman.
And, IMO, if you want to add same sex to the mix, fine, but it should be called something different.
Again, JMO.
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:51 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 9/21/2009 2:15:30 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:51 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 9/21/2009 2:14:53 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:54 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
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Stephanie
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by dita
Posted by shiv
i'm really shocked by how many catholics are against the church's view on abortion.
Abortion as a form of birth control disgusts me. Multiple abortions disgust me as well.
But what about cases of incest? Rape? Drug addicts?
A life is a life, who are we to judge whether or not a child deserves to live.
it depends when you consider "life" to start...this is not really the point of this thread though
this is America, I am thankful for our right to CHOOSE (whatever that choice may be)
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| Posted 1/16/08 1:56 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 9/21/2009 2:14:07 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:00 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by stephanief
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by dita
Posted by shiv
i'm really shocked by how many catholics are against the church's view on abortion.
Abortion as a form of birth control disgusts me. Multiple abortions disgust me as well.
But what about cases of incest? Rape? Drug addicts?
A life is a life, who are we to judge whether or not a child deserves to live.
it depends when you consider "life" to start...this is not really the point of this thread though
this is America, I am thankful for our right to CHOOSE (whatever that choice may be)
just answering her question in relation to the point of the thread, the view of the Catholic church. Life starts at conception 
I am not debating what the catholic church says....soem people "buy into that", others don't.....
that is why the catholic church is too "ridgid" for some, that's all
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:03 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by ~Colleen~
As a past catholic, these are some of my reasons for why I became "disenchanted" by this particular religion...
- treatment of women within the religion
- lack of concern for the children being taken advantage of by priests / handling of the molestation cases
- stand on abortion
- stand on gay marriage
- stand on birth control
ITA. This is why I am not a practicing Catholic anymore. I prefer to live my life as best I can without following an organized religion. I also think being part of an organized religion for ME reeks of homogeny and I do not consider myself homogenous.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:03 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
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Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
I disagree with abortion as a political issue. I don't disagree with the religious doctrine, if that makes sense.
There are SO many things churches disagre with many candidates on, why take people to task for abortion (like churches denying John Kerry communion)? I think it's all political and I don't think the church should get involved. If there were one candidate who sided with the churhc on every issue I could see that, but I think making abortion "the" issue is a vast right wing conspiracy 
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:04 PM |
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2BEANS
wow time is going fast.
Member since 9/07 16106 total posts
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Tina
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
The church gave my dh and i alot of trouble when we wanted to get married in church. Hes of a different faith, and we had spoken to a deacon 2 years prior to see if there would be any issues and he said no problem. Then when we went to book a day when we got engaged they gave us such a HARD time. Every time we went there for meetings with priest it was like pulling teeth. Plus this one nune would give my dh the worst look when she found out he wasnt catholic. Thank goodness there not giving us trouble with baptism otherwise my dh would say no baptism.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:05 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
this is not meant to be rude but I know it will sound like that(That is my disclaimer ) but Why do you care? Will it take away from your marriage if a gay couple was to be able to say "we are legally married?"
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:05 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by BabySammie
The church gave my dh and i alot of trouble when we wanted to get married in church. Hes of a different faith, and we had spoken to a deacon 2 years prior to see if there would be any issues and he said no problem. Then when we went to book a day when we got engaged they gave us such a HARD time. Every time we went there for meetings with priest it was like pulling teeth. Plus this one nune would give my dh the worst look when she found out he wasnt catholic. Thank goodness there not giving us trouble with baptism otherwise my dh would say no baptism.
That's terrible! And completely against church teaching. My FH is Jewish..the priest said "no problem." We had a lot more problems with Jewish clergy.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:06 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by melijane
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
Yeah I don't get it.
this is not meant to be rude but I know it will sound like that(That is my disclaimer ) but Why do you care? Will it take away from your marriage if a gay couple was to be able to say "we are legally married?"
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:06 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
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Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by melijane
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
this is not meant to be rude but I know it will sound like that(That is my disclaimer ) but Why do you care? Will it take away from your marriage if a gay couple was to be able to say "we are legally married?"
i was thinking the same thing. i know everyone has their own opinions--but i never quite understood this idea....its utter semantics. like another person said---as shakeseare would say....a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.
calling it a civil union, domestic partnership...etc. is just using different words for the same idea....its a MARRIAGE. its just playing with words to make people feel more comfortable with it.
Message edited 1/16/2008 2:10:37 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:09 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by SweetTooth
Posted by JenniferEver
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
Separate but equal bothers me.
What i think is that ONLY religious institutions should grant marriages. And the government grants civil unions. That would be true separation b/w church and state. it can still be combined in one ceremony, like at a catholic wedding for example, but LEGALLY it's a civil union no matter who you are..the distinction of "marriage" is given by the religious organization.
I am not Catholic, but was reading this thread out of curiousity, and had to respond.
So what you are saying is that if a couple does not have a wedding ceremony in a religious institution, then that should not be considered marriage but a civil union? Then a couple married by a judge in a courthouse or an interfaith minister in a garden would not be married, but have a civil union?
I don't really understand why semantics have to play a part. If all couples, of whatever sexual orientation they are, join together and all recieve the same rights, then what does it matter if its called a marriage or a civil union?
Married is just a word. To follow the word of Shakespeare, if it was called by another name would it really be different?
For the record I would have zero problem with gay marriage being called marriage. I don't think it takes away from anything, and I can't even understand someone who thinks it has any aeffect on their own marriage.
But I think an easy solution is the one I proposed. After all, when you get married whether it's ina church, a synagogue or city hall, what the state is granting you is in effecta civil union They are not the ones granting you a marriage sanctioned by god. So everyone gets a CIVIL union from the STATE and a RELIGIOUS UNION or MARRIAGE from the religious person granting it. If you're getting married in city hall, you're looking to be elgally joined, not necessarily blessed by god, so I don't understand why we can't just make a distinction between a state "marriage" ans religious "marriage".
Or people could get over it and let gay people get married and call it marriage.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:10 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by JenniferEver
I disagree with abortion as a political issue. I don't disagree with the religious doctrine, if that makes sense.
There are SO many things churches disagre with many candidates on, why take people to task for abortion (like churches denying John Kerry communion)? I think it's all political and I don't think the church should get involved. If there were one candidate who sided with the churhc on every issue I could see that, but I think making abortion "the" issue is a vast right wing conspiracy
A president has the power to elect members to congress who could overturn roe vs. wade, similar to what bush did for partial-birth abortions. So, it is a political issue.
When they used to have it, I was part of the pro-life political party.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:26 PM |
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Ali1
Mommy
Member since 8/05 3116 total posts
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by maybebaby
Posted by dita
Posted by BlueDiamonds
Just to clarify, the church is not against all birth control. they approve of natural birth control (or family planning). i'm assuming that most people are not happy about their stance on artificial birth control. just wanted to throw that out there to clarify. i know it gets a bad rap but natural family planning (if followed correctly) is VERY effective birth control.
Not really. That's how I came to be.
I don't practice NFP, but honestly she is right...its very effective if done correctly. By charting, temps etc...it just takes restraint and knowing your body. If you are someone who ovulates pretty much like clockwork it is almost foolproof. But if your cycle is all over the place, then this method woudln't be for you...
What I don't get is why do they advocate Natural Birth Control but not "Artificial Birth Control"? Are you not trying to avoid getting pregnant for whatever reason you want with NBC? This is an area where I think the church has to move into this century. People use Birth Control because for whatever reason they don't want kids at that time. And for some people NBC just does not work.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:26 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:28 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
Posted by JenniferEver
I disagree with abortion as a political issue. I don't disagree with the religious doctrine, if that makes sense.
There are SO many things churches disagre with many candidates on, why take people to task for abortion (like churches denying John Kerry communion)? I think it's all political and I don't think the church should get involved. If there were one candidate who sided with the churhc on every issue I could see that, but I think making abortion "the" issue is a vast right wing conspiracy
A president has the power to elect members to congress who could overturn roe vs. wade, similar to what bush did for partial-birth abortions. So, it is a political issue.
When they used to have it, I was part of the pro-life political party.
But making it THE issue is a political move on the part of the far-right of the republican party more so than actual conviction. It also clouds the many issues on which the church would disagree with the republicans. Because there are many many issues and neither party has a real amtch to the church I don't like the fact that the church takes sides and encourages people to be single issue voters.
Single issue abortion voteres are how we got stuck with Dubya for 8 years.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:32 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
yes they can have domestic partnerships and/or civil unions in SOME states---but not all
BUT even if a domestic partnership is recognized in a state---that union will never be deemed official in accordance with Federal terms. therefore the couple would not be allowed to file taxes together.....would not be allowed to receive any type of social security spousal benefits, etc.
THAT is the reason why its such a huge issue--cause the states can create civil unions up the wazoo but no matter what, it will never be deemed an LEGAL union by the federal government, unless the law is changed
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:32 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by Ali1
What I don't get is why do they advocate Natural Birth Control but not "Artificial Birth Control"? Are you not trying to avoid getting pregnant for whatever reason you want with NBC? This is an area where I think the church has to move into this century. People use Birth Control because for whatever reason they don't want kids at that time. And for some people NBC just does not work.
they say it's because it's not natural to use birth control, but yeah the outcome is the same- no baby but still having s e x.
Message edited 1/16/2008 2:33:31 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:32 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by melijane
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
and as for the gay marriage part - and this will hopefully spark some healthy debate
I am NOT against gays being formally recognized as a union.
I am NOT against them having the same rights and priveleges as heterosexual unions.
I AM against calling it a "marriage". IMO - I believe in "separate but equal" here. Call a man and a woman union a "marriage". Call a gay union just that - a civil union, a domestic partnership - whatever. It's the same thing in principle, but denotes the difference.
JMHO
this is not meant to be rude but I know it will sound like that(That is my disclaimer ) but Why do you care? Will it take away from your marriage if a gay couple was to be able to say "we are legally married?"
i was thinking the same thing. i know everyone has their own opinions--but i never quite understood this idea....its utter semantics. like another person said---as shakeseare would say....a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.
calling it a civil union, domestic partnership...etc. is just using different words for the same idea....its a MARRIAGE. its just playing with words to make people feel more comfortable with it.
totally cool to ask me that
it's just the way i feel and i don't really have an answer for you to justify it.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:32 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
and why shouldn't it be? 
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:33 PM |
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