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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
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VP Debate
Im not going to quote you Klingklang because of the photo that some people might not want to see. My heart does break for the poor innocent babies like you posted the photo of, but I don't believe we can take the chance of letting in millions of people , who we will know nothing about into this country . I am more worried about the citizens of the US. Let Germany take all they want. Yes, I know that is a NIMBY viewpoint on my behalf, but I am more concerned about the safety of the children in this country, and I will not apologize for that. We can't save the world...it sucks, but that's the truth.
I will also be the first to say I do not understand people who don't have religious beliefs....i hope they are not surprised when they pass on. I also have a very close friend who is an athiest, she knows how I feel, but I NEVER tell her she is wrong .I am not against women making decisions, but if you made the CHOICE to spread your legs, then deal with the consequences. Believe it or not, I am not for making abortion illegal, I really don't like the government having that much of a say. I personally don't believe in it, with some caveats of course; rape, incest, mother's life in danger. I have a lot of conflicting views, which makes these decisions tough for me. That is why I am struggling so much with this election.
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Posted 10/5/16 6:49 PM  |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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VP Debate
I'm probably not going to comment anymore tonight, since I'm pms'ing like a motha, and if I'm attached like MrsMick was last week, I'll probably say something on this board I regret! Not because I do not want to answer anyone on here who respectfully questions me.
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| Posted 10/5/16 6:52 PM |
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klingklang77
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Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by jlm2008
As for religion, well Radical Islamic's (do you not know the plural rules of the English language?)
And I would think as a mother who I know went through hell with her baby girl a few months ago, followed all your updates and am so happy that she pulled through, you don't believe life begins at conception?
Are you really serious with this comment???
Just because she went through a difficult time doesn't mean that she should be "shamed" into believing that life begins at conception.
She doesn't believe it, so don't make her feel like that.
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| Posted 10/5/16 6:56 PM |
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Michellec
LIF Infant
Member since 8/05 146 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:01 PM |
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klingklang77
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Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by Michellec
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
Thank you for your post. It was a horrible thing to say to someone.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:05 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by Michellec
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
Thank you.
And to the person who posted that-
What my daughter and my family went through has no bearing on my beliefs. I have carried 2 children. I have given birth to 2 children. I am 100% pro choice.
I also believe organized religion is a cult! 
So no, I don't believe that life begins at conception.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:10 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Im not going to quote you Klingklang because of the photo that some people might not want to see...
I am not against women making decisions, but if you made the CHOICE to spread your legs, then deal with the consequences.
Maybe you should look into this issue a bit more (3rd trimester abortions), because you seem to be uninformed.
If you made the choice to spread your legs? What kind of f*ckery is that?
I don't care if you are PMSing. Don't make shi***y comments.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:11 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by Michellec
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
I agree. Truly terrible. Sick, really.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:12 PM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Michellec
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
Thank you for your post. It was a horrible thing to say to someone.
I did not shame Elizarags, but funny how you two are trying to shame me. I simply asked her a question that I was honestly curious about . I am not a mother, so I honestly would like to know how mothers reconcile doing everything in their power to keeping their children alive with being pro abortion. I under no circumstance attacked Elizarags, and if she feels that why, I am sorry.
Klingkang, we will never agree, and I am fine with that. I almost never respond to anything you post, because honestly, you come across as quite nasty. I could be wrong, don't know you IRL, and chances are our paths will never cross. As someone who has some pretty conservative views, I am very willing to listen to others who do not share my views. I wonder why liberal people cannot do the same? Isn't that the whole idea about behind being liberal? Respecting everyone's views whether you believe them or not? I have never once come on here and said everybody is wrong( about politics anyway, have definitely told people they were wrong on the fashion board) and that I am right. Nobody is 100% right. But I have the right to express my beliefs without being bashed. All this started because I said Goldenrod opened my eyes to things I did not know about Pence and I said it made me question who I should vote for. That being said, Trump does scare me, because I find him unintelligent. It is highly unlikely that I would cast my vote for him. But we should ALL be questioning our decisions about everything, always.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:18 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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VP Debate
Fwiw I did say you were entitled to your beliefs and that IMO were not mine.
And my stance of being pro choice is because I could never in good conscience tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do with their own bodies nor do I think it's appropriate or my place to shame them for their actions.
Message edited 10/5/2016 7:22:22 PM.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:20 PM |
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Michellec
LIF Infant
Member since 8/05 146 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Because it isn't pro abortion, it is pro choice.
I'm just gonna try to be quiet now; these threads are insane.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:21 PM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by nraboni
Posted by jlm2008
Thanks for posting this link...except for like 2 of them I agree with all of them. Really had no intention of voting for Trump, but maybe I should now?
Everyone has a right to their own opinion but I would love to hear your explanation as to why you agree with the way he voted. Not a generalization, but a fact by fact reason.
When I have more time and can reread the link, I will do that. Right now, off the top of my head from what I can remember, I'm 100% in agreement with the fee for the burial of fetuses. I believe that life begins at conception, which is actually science. So if you can murder a life, you should bury it properly. I am also against letting in Syrian refugees to this country and also want to drill in the US. On my phone now, but if that wasn't enough for you, I can give you more when I get home!
Edited because I remembered one more: creationism in schools...totally for that. Pretty sure that was taught when our country was formed. Maybe if more people actually practiced religion, the world wouldn't be in such a f@cked up state.
Wow. I mean they're your beliefs and you're entitled to them. But wow.
I actually feel completely the opposite. I think religion is a huge cause for all the flucked up shit happening in this world. Actually I think history proves that... and also that dinosaurs existed.
I could say wow about your beliefs, but I'm an adult and everyone is entitled to the way they feel. As for religion, well Radical Islamic's are really why the world is f'd up..they are the only religion that believes God wants you to kill in his honor...I could be wrong, but Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists don't preach that. And I would think as a mother who I know went through hell with her baby girl a few months ago, followed all your updates and am so happy that she pulled through, you don't believe life begins at conception?
As far as Catholics not killing in God's honor, I would start with The Crusades and The Spanish Inquisition and work your way forward.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:22 PM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by ElizaRags35
Fwiw I did say you were entitled to your beliefs and that IMO were not mine.
And my stance of being pro choice is because I could never in good conscience tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do with their own bodies nor do I think it's appropriate or my place to shame them for their actions.
This is what you posted:
Wow. I mean they're your beliefs and you're entitled to them. But wow.
I actually feel completely the opposite. I think religion is a huge cause for all the flucked up shit happening in this world. Actually I think history proves that... and also that dinosaurs existed.
IMO of course.
I didn't realize you meant you were against everything I said, I thought you just meant the religion part. Also not sure where the dinosaurs fit in? But anyway, I did not realize you thought you already answered my abortion question. For that I am sorry. You gave your answer and I respect that, even though I might not agree.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:26 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: VP Debate
First of all, nobody is PRO-ABORTION. The terminology is pro-CHOICE. And what on earth does going through a trauma with a baby have to do with one's opinion on the choice to have an abortion?
Perhaps no harm was meant with the comment, but this seems VERY MUCH like a situation where one's words should have been read, and re-read, and then deleted. How dare you bring up someone's traumatic experience to question what they do or do not believe. I'm sorry, but that's just vile. VILE. While the intent may not have been as much - that was the execution.
Wow. My blood is boiling for ElizaRags, and even if she wasn't a dear friend of mine it would be. I'm in awe of how calmly she responded, because really how low can you go?
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:26 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Michellec
I have not said a ton on these boards in many, many years, but I think that is a horrible thing to say to Elizarags about her daughter and her beliefs.
And yes, I too lived through a nightmare with my child.
Thank you for your post. It was a horrible thing to say to someone.
I did not shame Elizarags, but funny how you two are trying to shame me. I simply asked her a question that I was honestly curious about . I am not a mother, so I honestly would like to know how mothers reconcile doing everything in their power to keeping their children alive with being pro abortion. I under no circumstance attacked Elizarags, and if she feels that why, I am sorry.
Klingkang, we will never agree, and I am fine with that. I almost never respond to anything you post, because honestly, you come across as quite nasty. I could be wrong, don't know you IRL, and chances are our paths will never cross. As someone who has some pretty conservative views, I am very willing to listen to others who do not share my views. I wonder why liberal people cannot do the same? Isn't that the whole idea about behind being liberal? Respecting everyone's views whether you believe them or not? I have never once come on here and said everybody is wrong( about politics anyway, have definitely told people they were wrong on the fashion board) and that I am right. Nobody is 100% right. But I have the right to express my beliefs without being bashed. All this started because I said Goldenrod opened my eyes to things I did not know about Pence and I said it made me question who I should vote for. That being said, Trump does scare me, because I find him unintelligent. It is highly unlikely that I would cast my vote for him. But we should ALL be questioning our decisions about everything, always.
I am also not a mother, but I feel really strongly about the way you said that to Elizarags.
I really do not think I come across as "quite nasty" ; please provide examples. I do not call people names and I don't send nasty PMs.
I do listen to other views (and I usually do not comment), but I never attack.
But this one thing, I just feel saying what you said is quite hurtful to Eliza.
To say you have had a difficult time, so you should be pro-life is BS. She has a belief. Don't force it.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:33 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by MandJZ
First of all, nobody is PRO-ABORTION. The terminology is pro-CHOICE. And what on earth does going through a trauma with a baby have to do with one's opinion on the choice to have an abortion?
Perhaps no harm was meant with the comment, but this seems VERY MUCH like a situation where one's words should have been read, and re-read, and then deleted. How dare you bring up someone's traumatic experience to question what they do or do not believe. I'm sorry, but that's just vile. VILE. While the intent may not have been as much - that was the execution.
Wow. My blood is boiling for ElizaRags, and even if she wasn't a dear friend of mine it would be. I'm in awe of how calmly she responded, because really how low can you go?
 X 1 million infinity.
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| Posted 10/5/16 7:36 PM |
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gina409
TWINS!
Member since 12/09 27635 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: VP Debate
I can't believe what I have just read
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| Posted 10/5/16 9:11 PM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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VP Debate
Elizarags is a very close friend of mine and I'm APPALLED that JLM had the nerve to say what she said. You know nothing about her or what her family has and continues to go through, so I would think long and hard before you come back on this thread and try to justify your comments. The fact that you could even muster those words shows your ignorance and immaturity and honestly you really should feel ashamed for what you said. This crosses a line.
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| Posted 10/6/16 6:36 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: VP Debate
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Message edited 10/6/2016 7:55:07 AM.
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| Posted 10/6/16 7:03 AM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: VP Debate
Wow, this thread is off the rails. Eliza, I am so sorry someone could be so mean to you.
What I have to say is when you marginalize and ostracize people then they do not become part of the great melting pot of America. Not everyone is bad. If I based my entire view of the Catholic Church off of the news I would think that every clergy memeber is a pedophile. I know for a fact that this is not true. I know that many who devote their life to g-d perform good, charatible works every single day. So too not every refugee is a bad person worthy of hatred and suspicion. We are better than this, or at least I hope we are.
As for creationism, please go visit the museum of natural history in NYC and learn about the scientific method.
As for abortion, no one realistically wants to be pro abortion, but they want the agency to make an informed medical decision between themselves and their physician. Your religious beliefs end at the tip of your nose. They should not invade someone else and their body. I disagree with having religious based medical advice.
As for land rights, I don't live where they are going to dig, so I feel like I have less of a right to have a say in what is done to other peoples land when it comes to digging it up.
Message edited 10/6/2016 7:43:54 AM.
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| Posted 10/6/16 7:43 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: VP Debate
I find it strange that it seems that people bring up homeless people and vets when talking about the refugee argument. I wonder how much these people do for the homeless and vets when the refugee discussion isn't around. It's a very convienent argument that doesn't really work in my opinion. You might want to also check how Congress voted on several bills for vets (didn't pass) before using the "let's help homeless vets first" line.
It is not a choice between the two. To say that is unfair and it is creating a distorted view of the numbers and facts. BUt I guess that's how FB memes work.
The US can do both. The number of homeless vets has decreased under Obama. If you actually take a look at the budget, you would see the percentages for taking in Syrian vets to be low and it is doable. They are not taking the funds from the vets.
So why don't these people just admit they don't want to help at all?
ETA: I see the poster has edited their post to what this is responding to.
Message edited 10/6/2016 9:19:06 AM.
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| Posted 10/6/16 8:03 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Elizarags is a very close friend of mine and I'm APPALLED that JLM had the nerve to say what she said. You know nothing about her or what her family has and continues to go through, so I would think long and hard before you come back on this thread and try to justify your comments. The fact that you could even muster those words shows your ignorance and immaturity and honestly you really should feel ashamed for what you said. This crosses a line.
I was more than happy to let this thread die Kitten, until you commented and threatened me. I do not take threats on a public chat board and especially from you kitten. Who the hell are you to tell me I better not comment again? You, who, what number of screenames are you up to now? You the bully of LIF? You stir the pot and then change your name and come back like nothing happened. I will post on whatever and to whoever I wish. I wish just one of you could tell me what was so wrong about what I said to Eliza? Did I say I wish her child died??????No I said that I followed her post when she went through a terrible situation and was so happy her child was ok. I asked her in a very RESPECTABLE way how she is ok with abortion. What is wrong with all of you people? I'm not a big poster, but I think I will be posting on everything from now on.
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| Posted 10/6/16 8:15 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Kitten1929
Elizarags is a very close friend of mine and I'm APPALLED that JLM had the nerve to say what she said. You know nothing about her or what her family has and continues to go through, so I would think long and hard before you come back on this thread and try to justify your comments. The fact that you could even muster those words shows your ignorance and immaturity and honestly you really should feel ashamed for what you said. This crosses a line.
I was more than happy to let this thread die Kitten, until you commented and threatened me. I do not take threats on a public chat board and especially from you kitten. Who the hell are you to tell me I better not comment again? You, who, what number of screenames are you up to now? You the bully of LIF? You stir the pot and then change your name and come back like nothing happened. I will post on whatever and to whoever I wish. I wish just one of you could tell me what was so wrong about what I said to Eliza? Did I say I wish her child died??????No I said that I followed her post when she went through a terrible situation and was so happy her child was ok. I asked her in a very RESPECTABLE way how she is ok with abortion. What is wrong with all of you people? I'm not a big poster, but I think I will be posting on everything from now on.
First off, who or what I am has no bearing on this thread. But sure, sling shit at me I don't care. And I was not even close to "threatening". You essentially think that because she has a child who went through a medical trauma which now has possibly lifelong consequences, that she should believe that life begins at conception? How do those two things even correlate? What does that have to do with her personal beliefs?
Message edited 10/6/2016 8:30:45 AM.
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| Posted 10/6/16 8:29 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: VP Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Kitten1929
Elizarags is a very close friend of mine and I'm APPALLED that JLM had the nerve to say what she said. You know nothing about her or what her family has and continues to go through, so I would think long and hard before you come back on this thread and try to justify your comments. The fact that you could even muster those words shows your ignorance and immaturity and honestly you really should feel ashamed for what you said. This crosses a line.
I was more than happy to let this thread die Kitten, until you commented and threatened me. I do not take threats on a public chat board and especially from you kitten. Who the hell are you to tell me I better not comment again? You, who, what number of screenames are you up to now? You the bully of LIF? You stir the pot and then change your name and come back like nothing happened. I will post on whatever and to whoever I wish. I wish just one of you could tell me what was so wrong about what I said to Eliza? Did I say I wish her child died??????No I said that I followed her post when she went through a terrible situation and was so happy her child was ok. I asked her in a very RESPECTABLE way how she is ok with abortion. What is wrong with all of you people? I'm not a big poster, but I think I will be posting on everything from now on.
First off, who or what I am has no bearing on this thread. But sure, sling shit at me I don't care. And I was not even close to "threatening". You essentially think that because she has a child who went through a medical trauma which now has possibly lifelong consequences, that she should believe that life begins at conception? How do those two things even correlate? What does that have to do with her personal beliefs?
I think that's what made me 
My daughter was almost killed when a doctor messed up on her intubation when she was an infant. How does that have anything to do with abortion? My child was a living, breathing, crying, smiling, 15lb person. Not a fetus who couldn't survive outside of my body
When I was pregnant with both and had my first sonos, they were just a bunch of cells. To ME they were my babies because I wanted them but someone else may not feel the same and that's ok.
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| Posted 10/6/16 9:22 AM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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VP Debate
I understand where she is coming from- I do believe birth starts at conception. HOWEVER, as much as I am not for abortion for myself, I understand there is a need for it- but only in some cases. I think adoption should be an option as well as more access and information on birth control. There are SO many options out there- condoms, morning after pill, etc…… People need to be educated and have access to all these options.
I agree that religion is a root of many problems. While I am very spiritual and believe in a lot of the good things religion offers, I really do agree a lot of the problems in the world is ruled by religion. And I often ask myself “Which religion is right?” My husband is an atheist and I do identify myself as Roman Catholic. We decided that we will raise our kids in the church and go through the rites and do what they want once they make confirmation- as our parents did with us. I do pray and believe in all the good things out there but like others here, I do question why there is so much bad shitt going on- if that makes any sense.
I am not a fan of Liz and I am sure she feels likewise BUT I am surprised that comment would come from someone with no children. And anyone who has kids that go through issues medically has nothing to do with their personal beliefs on politics.
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| Posted 10/6/16 9:36 AM |
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