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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
I agree education and availability of contraception. I also think that people need to see what is real life...those who are against kids learning about contraception because they think that it will them "ideas". Everyone...including parents...needs to be educated. Also people need to be educated on the emotional impact and possible reproductive impact abortion could have (I am pro choice). Society needs to stop sensationalizing sex too.
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Posted 4/20/07 3:50 PM  |
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Shelly
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by SecretName21
I don't agree with women using it as a form of birth control, which can happen)I have to say, BUT I am pro-choice, because having to go thru an abortion procedure is something that the person involved needs to deal with. Not the 65 year old good old boy Representative in Washington, D.C. who really, at the end of the day, doesn't care about what happens to those who have to make this decision.
When the government starts telling us what to do with our bodies, it just gets one step closer to controlling more and more of us.
Abortion is not an easy decision...during a time in my life when I was not making the best choices and running around without any care or concern for myself, I got pregnant and had an abortion. It was the hardest decision I've ever made in my life, and I have to live with that every day of my life. Whenever I fill out medical forms, I have to list it in my history, I have to think about how old my child would have been. It was MY choice because I knew I would have not have cared for that child properly, because I was into drugs and alcohol and by the time I realized I was pregnant, I had probably already damaged the fetus. You can think whatever you want about me and say I'm evil and going to hell, but I know how hard it was to do what I did...and no one but myself has to deal with it.
 Thank you for your post.
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| Posted 4/20/07 3:53 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by SecretName21
I don't agree with women using it as a form of birth control, which can happen)I have to say, BUT I am pro-choice, because having to go thru an abortion procedure is something that the person involved needs to deal with. Not the 65 year old good old boy Representative in Washington, D.C. who really, at the end of the day, doesn't care about what happens to those who have to make this decision.
When the government starts telling us what to do with our bodies, it just gets one step closer to controlling more and more of us.
Abortion is not an easy decision...during a time in my life when I was not making the best choices and running around without any care or concern for myself, I got pregnant and had an abortion. It was the hardest decision I've ever made in my life, and I have to live with that every day of my life. Whenever I fill out medical forms, I have to list it in my history, I have to think about how old my child would have been. It was MY choice because I knew I would have not have cared for that child properly, because I was into drugs and alcohol and by the time I realized I was pregnant, I had probably already damaged the fetus. You can think whatever you want about me and say I'm evil and going to hell, but I know how hard it was to do what I did...and no one but myself has to deal with it.
I'm sure its tough for your sometimes. TY for posting.
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| Posted 4/20/07 3:56 PM |
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AOMom
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Member since 11/06 856 total posts
Name:
j
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
When I was 19 I worked at Planned Parenthood as an assistant to the office manager. While I do agree that women need to be educated from a young age about this, I do not believe it would impact everybody.
At my time in the office there were several women in their mid-30s who had each come in for 2-4 abortions each. They were well educated, had good paying jobs, husbands, kids, houses, etc. Some of them didn't like the effects of birth control pills (weight gain, etc.) but didn't want to have more kids. Some of them had husband's who wanted additional children so they stopped taking the pill...they however did not want any more kids, so they would have abortions and never tell their husbands that they had gotten pregnant again.
These women were not doing this because they didn't know any better. These were calculated decisions on their part. As a result, I am skeptical to believe that there is in fact a way to prevent women from using abortion as a means of birth control. On the flip side, these women were not the majority of women coming to the clinic, not by a long shot.
As far as someone's suggestion above- to raise the price of an abortion, I think that would do more harm than good unless there was a way for younger girls and less fortunate women to have access to abortions for less money. Otherwise they would effectivley be precluded from access to abortions. Back then I believe PP charged $300 for an abotion- that was 8 years ago so it likely has increased since then. The women I described above would be able to pay for the abortion even if it went up in price.
Anyway, this is JMO- I'm not one to ever get invovled in these debates, but I have seen this first hand so I thought that I would share.
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| Posted 4/20/07 4:13 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by Rooster
When I was 19 I worked at Planned Parenthood as an assistant to the office manager. While I do agree that women need to be educated from a young age about this, I do not believe it would impact everybody.
At my time in the office there were several women in their mid-30s who had each come in for 2-4 abortions each. They were well educated, had good paying jobs, husbands, kids, houses, etc. Some of them didn't like the effects of birth control pills (weight gain, etc.) but didn't want to have more kids. Some of them had husband's who wanted additional children so they stopped taking the pill...they however did not want any more kids, so they would have abortions and never tell their husbands that they had gotten pregnant again.
These women were not doing this because they didn't know any better. These were calculated decisions on their part. As a result, I am skeptical to believe that there is in fact a way to prevent women from using abortion as a means of birth control. On the flip side, these women were not the majority of women coming to the clinic, not by a long shot.
As far as someone's suggestion above- to raise the price of an abortion, I think that would do more harm than good unless there was a way for younger girls and less fortunate women to have access to abortions for less money. Otherwise they would effectivley be precluded from access to abortions. Back then I believe PP charged $300 for an abotion- that was 8 years ago so it likely has increased since then. The women I described above would be able to pay for the abortion even if it went up in price.
Anyway, this is JMO- I'm not one to ever get invovled in these debates, but I have seen this first hand so I thought that I would share.
Agreed, and we do not want to go back to the days when women used coat hangers either. To raise to cost would cause women from poorer socioeconomic backgrounds to pay the price...with their health, and possible their life.
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| Posted 4/20/07 4:27 PM |
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MsG
Should be working
Member since 5/05 2824 total posts
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G
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Education, availability of contraception (no more pharmacists deciding they won't give bc pills), public acceptance of the fact that women have sex and like sex - at all ages.
Honestly though, what a woman does with her body is none of my business. If she wants to have a jillion abortions, I might think it's sad but I would never take that away from her. Part of the abortion debate isn't just when does life begin, but that it's a woman's right to control her own reproduction.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:01 PM |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
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me
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
I am pro-choice, and I have to say that you cannot prevent people from using abortion as birth control because that is essentially what it is. I would never personally use it that way, but if another woman chooses to, then that's her CHOICE. So, my answer is that you cannot stop it unless you stop abortion completely.
You could certainly lower the amount of women who use it as a form of birth control with education and supply birth control, but it will not stop it from happening.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:08 PM |
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DebG
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Random question.
Why is it that *I* should give a damn that someone I don't know uses abortion as a form of birth control?
People need to start looking at their own homes, their own lives and their own bedrooms. STOP being sooo concerned about someone else's.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:17 PM |
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Lisa
I'm a PANK!!!
Member since 5/05 22334 total posts
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Professional Aunts No Kids
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by DebG
Random question.
Why is it that *I* should give a damn that someone I don't know uses abortion as a form of birth control?
People need to start looking at their own homes, their own lives and their own bedrooms. STOP being sooo concerned about someone else's.
Amen!!!!
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:35 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by DebG
Random question.
Why is it that *I* should give a damn that someone I don't know uses abortion as a form of birth control?
People need to start looking at their own homes, their own lives and their own bedrooms. STOP being sooo concerned about someone else's.
You do have a point.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:35 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by DebG
Random question.
Why is it that *I* should give a damn that someone I don't know uses abortion as a form of birth control?
People need to start looking at their own homes, their own lives and their own bedrooms. STOP being sooo concerned about someone else's.
You do have a point.
I have to disagree here. Some people are ignorant, uninformed and uneducated. So it is the responsibility of society as a whole to care what they are doing to their bodies and unborn babies.
I honestly can't decide if I am pro-life or pro-choice. As a Catholic AND a woman - it is a tough choice to make.
But i DO have a problem with women using abortion as birth control and think that there should be some effort made to protect them from themselves.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:45 PM |
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DebG
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The cure IS worse!
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by Tilde
But i DO have a problem with women using abortion as birth control and think that there should be some effort made to protect them from themselves.
who gets to deam what catagory each person is put in?
AND
protect them from themselves? from what?
They are pro-choice and obviously ok with the pain afterards. They are aware mentally of what they are doing and the effects it will have on them.
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| Posted 4/20/07 7:48 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by DebG
Posted by Tilde
But i DO have a problem with women using abortion as birth control and think that there should be some effort made to protect them from themselves.
who gets to deam what catagory each person is put in?
AND
protect them from themselves? from what?
They are pro-choice and obviously ok with the pain afterards. They are aware mentally of what they are doing and the effects it will have on them.
Great questions - i don't know the answer to them though. Honestly, I am young and really haven't experienced much. I actually learn a lot from these boards.
I am more concerned with the process that occurs BEFORE the woman gets pregnant. I think that is MORE important that the abortion debate. There ARE women getting pregnant that don't know HOW they got pregnant. I remember girls in High School suggesting that you drink vinegar after sex to "kill sperm!" These are the women that I think we have a resonsibility to inform BEFORE they have to make a decision to have an abortion.
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| Posted 4/20/07 8:24 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by DebG
Random question.
Why is it that *I* should give a damn that someone I don't know uses abortion as a form of birth control?
People need to start looking at their own homes, their own lives and their own bedrooms. STOP being sooo concerned about someone else's.
Deb, its not so much that you need to care about this specific person or that..its more that its a huge issue in society...and if everyone turned a blind eye to every issue, where would we be?? Pro choice OR pro life we do need to be concerned...because one way or another, i think we can all agree, it's an issue that needs help and attention.
Just like gun control....child abuse....drug use.....if we all lived with the philosophy "what they do is their problem" the world would be more messed up than it already is. Just my feelings. Ignoring never solves anything no matter what side you're on.
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| Posted 4/21/07 7:11 AM |
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PrincessP
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Member since 12/05 17450 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Not to put a damper on the conversation but dont you think we've tried both suggestions? They have included sex education...what happens...sometimes it works...sometimes it doesnt. I think kids are going to do what kids are going to do. Ive seen schools hand out condoms to classrooms and what happens...the parents are up in arms. Some parents want the suggestions stated above some just dont. So how do we really stop this? Teenagers are resorting to abortion because of fear. Fear that it already happened. Fear of not knowing what to do. I am 30 and I know my thoughts as a teenager were more based on "If i got preggo my parents would kill me" vs today when I got preggo I knew I could take care of her with my dh.
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| Posted 4/21/07 7:28 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by PrincessP
Not to put a damper on the conversation but dont you think we've tried both suggestions? They have included sex education...what happens...sometimes it works...sometimes it doesnt. I think kids are going to do what kids are going to do. Ive seen schools hand out condoms to classrooms and what happens...the parents are up in arms. Some parents want the suggestions stated above some just dont. So how do we really stop this? Teenagers are resorting to abortion because of fear. Fear that it already happened. Fear of not knowing what to do. I am 30 and I know my thoughts as a teenager were more based on "If i got preggo my parents would kill me" vs today when I got preggo I knew I could take care of her with my dh.
I think there needs to be the support at home for the education and contraception availability.
At my old gyn when I asked for the pill, she casually asked me if my parents knew (I was in my mid 20's). I told her yes, in fact my mom heard I was off the pill due to a lapse in health insurance while in law school and insisited I go back on the pill and paid for it herself. She was shocked. She told me she has so many patients whose parents accompany them to make sure they DON'T get birth control perscriptions.
I think parents also need to be taught that not teaching kids about it, doesn't mean they don't do it. Preventing kids from birth control just means they have unprotected sex- not abstain.
And I agree with previous posters, we also need to be taught morals at home. We need to learn that our bodies are special and not something that should be given freely because we want someont to like us.
Mistakes of course will happen, but if we teach women to cherish their bodies and put a strong value on sex, accompanied with education of both parents and kids and availability of contraception we can make a change.
And Deb, I completely agree with you. Honestly, I really don't care what other people use for birth control.
Its just that using abortion as birth control can be dangerous. But the only thing that concerns me is the health of the person geting numerous abortions. In the instance of the older woman at 30 with a family hwo gets numerous abortions, I don't care. She knows what she is doing.
But if young girls are getting numerous abortions, they may be decreasing their chances of carrying a healthy baby to term. At 16, 17... they may not care but if/when they are married and want to start a family, it may be a lot harder. A friend of mine who was educated and made a mistake and had 1 abortion had compllications from it that she may never be able to conceive. A mistake at 20 may cost her the ability to bear who own child (and she was pro-life). I'm sure there are greater health risks to those who have multiple abortions.
I also worry about not only using abortion as birth control, but people having unprotected sex are most likely spreading disease- which is something I very much do care about most of all.
This is why I advocate education and availability of contraception. How can this hurt? Education is always a good thing. IN NO WAY DO I WANT abortions rights to be stripped away or access restricted by parental consent requirements.
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| Posted 4/21/07 7:56 AM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
a little off the topic - but I think Pro choicers (myself included) need to start referring to Pro-Lifers as Anti-Choice people.
I'm completely pro-choice and I dont see how that doesnt also make me Pro-life. I'm not a fan of abortion - I'm all for women's lives, children's lives - but first and foremost it's a CHOICE that's between a woman and her doctor.
It's hard to win the game of semantics when one side has the ultra powerful name of Pro-Life, suggesting that anyone who disagrees is Anti-Life.
Call them Anti-Choicers!
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| Posted 4/21/07 8:49 AM |
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LuvMyBoys
LIF Adult
Member since 4/07 927 total posts
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MOMMY
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.
Message edited 1/8/2008 11:06:23 AM.
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| Posted 4/21/07 8:52 AM |
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PrincessP
Big sister!!!!!!!!!!
Member since 12/05 17450 total posts
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by Sunrise813
Posted by CoopersMom01
As bad as this sounds and as flamed as I may get for saying this... I would say increase the cost of abortion and perhaps we will stop seeing people using it as a form of BC.
All this will do is just make it available to the rich and privileged; you will just be hurting the poor. Which may be so desperate to get an abortion they will go to a "butcher" as alot of women did when abortion was illegal.
I am absolutely 100% pro choice because I don't beleive it is anyone's right to tell another person what they can & cannot do with their own bodies or their lives. We each make our choices in life and we each must live with those choices. I think if a woman looks at her life and makes the decision that she cannot or does not want to bring a life into this world, then who am I to tell her otherwise.
You are so not kidding! I think thats a horrible idea. Kids will start using hangers and do destructive things to their bodies to create an abortion. I wouldnt want to see it unavailable bc of lack of $$$. yikes, its a scary thought.
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| Posted 4/21/07 8:55 AM |
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mitabtrfly
Member since 12/06 2770 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by LittleBlueBug
Posted by Rooster
When I was 19 I worked at Planned Parenthood as an assistant to the office manager. While I do agree that women need to be educated from a young age about this, I do not believe it would impact everybody.
At my time in the office there were several women in their mid-30s who had each come in for 2-4 abortions each. They were well educated, had good paying jobs, husbands, kids, houses, etc. Some of them didn't like the effects of birth control pills (weight gain, etc.) but didn't want to have more kids. Some of them had husband's who wanted additional children so they stopped taking the pill...they however did not want any more kids, so they would have abortions and never tell their husbands that they had gotten pregnant again.
These women were not doing this because they didn't know any better. These were calculated decisions on their part. As a result, I am skeptical to believe that there is in fact a way to prevent women from using abortion as a means of birth control. On the flip side, these women were not the majority of women coming to the clinic, not by a long shot.
As far as someone's suggestion above- to raise the price of an abortion, I think that would do more harm than good unless there was a way for younger girls and less fortunate women to have access to abortions for less money. Otherwise they would effectivley be precluded from access to abortions. Back then I believe PP charged $300 for an abotion- that was 8 years ago so it likely has increased since then. The women I described above would be able to pay for the abortion even if it went up in price.
Anyway, this is JMO- I'm not one to ever get invovled in these debates, but I have seen this first hand so I thought that I would share.
Agreed, and we do not want to go back to the days when women used coat hangers either. To raise to cost would cause women from poorer socioeconomic backgrounds to pay the price...with their health, and possible their life.
This is such a "touchy" topic..one that will never end...but I agree with what you said. I think a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body...period. And..it would be a shame if women had to go back to the desperate measures of using a coat hanger.
Message edited 4/21/2007 9:11:29 AM.
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| Posted 4/21/07 9:10 AM |
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Booklady1017
Information Goddess
Member since 5/05 4149 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Message edited 4/21/2007 9:47:18 AM.
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| Posted 4/21/07 9:44 AM |
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Booklady1017
Information Goddess
Member since 5/05 4149 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posted by Booklady1017
I have a problem with abortion as birth control too. I feel many young women (and men for that matter today) are not taught properly about sex and the dangers and all. They might come from a home where their own mother (or parents) have not taught properly about sex. Maybe they are teenage mothers themselves. By the time they learn about it in school, it may be too late. I also think these children are looking for the missing parent in their lives or don't have any boundaries or discipline. These parents need to be educated about sex and help improve their lives (job, housing etc.), so their children don't make the same mistakes they make.
I don't know though if a lot of these young women are the ones having the abortions. I think they actually have the children and keep them. I don't know. I am imagining the ones who have an abortion are young women who are in college or are starting a career. I could be wrong.
I think abortion should be for women who "accidently" got pregnant and don't want a child, child has major birth defects and pregnancy negatively effects mother's health. I don't think abortions should be repeated by the same woman. They have not learned about safe sex? They should consider adoption. I could understand someone making this type of mistake once, but not more than that.
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| Posted 4/21/07 9:47 AM |
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Booklady1017
Information Goddess
Member since 5/05 4149 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
I also want to add that I agree with provision of contraceptives for these young women and men. I also understand what some of the posters are saying about even that you don't agree about abortion as birth control, if you pro-choice it means that you giving the women the choice. I do agree on some level but I do have a hard time with this.
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| Posted 4/21/07 9:52 AM |
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mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
Posters keep mentioning education, but the key with education is the age where we are educating students. Sex education is starting way too late. I am an educator at a high school and whether we like it or not, many 9th grade girls are coming into high school already sexually active or becoming sexually active right in 9th grade. It breaks my heart everyday, but it's the reality of teenage life today - drug use is starting way younger, sexual activity is starting way way younger.
The stories I hear shock and sadden me, but the problem is too many people want to turn their backs on this reality because it's not a comfortable situation - who wants to say that sexual education should be given to 6th graders or maybe even 5th graders - no one - but IMO, this is the direction that we need to move in. High school, or even 8th grade, is way too late, IMO, to start teaching students about sexual education.
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| Posted 4/21/07 10:03 AM |
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Booklady1017
Information Goddess
Member since 5/05 4149 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Spinoff to Abortion Issue
I thought I remember having sex education in 5th grade but I think it was very simplistic and left out a lot of things. I remember having more in 7th grade but sadly for some of these kids, it may be too late for them.
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| Posted 4/21/07 10:05 AM |
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