You must first be logged in to post a new topic.
If you are not registered, please click "Create Account".
| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: [1] 2 |
mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
|
Natural Selection and Modern Society...
sometimes I think there is a certain group of people that aren't "discovering" the cure for cancer....
just sometimes.
too many people we love die...
I know there is a need for natural selection and we have messed with it a lot since the industrial revolution and all...but this disease is the worst.
|
Posted 9/21/07 5:15 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I was just talking with a friend yesterday about our food.
we really have NO idea how much food additives and the hormones injected into animals to make them larger have effected us on a biological level.
research has linked this already to early menstrual development in young girls.
I just here of so many young people dying of cancer, or battling it.
it's crazy.
some people also have a theory about AIDS and pharmaceutical companies, b/c they make more money sustaining a life ON medications than they do with one dose that will cure you. they instantly lose a customer with a cure.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 5:19 PM |
| |
|
itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Message edited 11/11/2011 6:51:39 PM.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 5:19 PM |
| |
|
mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
anyone else care to pontificate?
|
| Posted 9/21/07 8:30 PM |
| |
|
BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I was actually thinking about this in the car today. I have some very "conspiracy theory" type thoughts on this country that I sometimes think just might be true. I feel like this country is just one big, greedy, nasty place sometimes and that people are getting sick and these pharmaceutical companies just eat it up and make money off of our despair. It's almost as if the food we sell in our stores leads us to these horrible diseases, which leads us to knock on the door of the pharmaceutical companies. Like it's some sort of grand plan to make money off of the misfortune of people.
I know that what I just said is totally far-fetched, but sometimes, I just feel like that's the way it is.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 8:37 PM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I don't know, I don't think there's really a conspiracy theory. In all honesty, I think it REALLY is natural selection at work. The fact is, we are killing ourselves with the things we breathe, the things we eat, and the things we do, and unfortunately, science just can't keep up.
People always have this idea that if you go to a doctor, (s)he will be able to diagnose you within minutes, and write out a prescription, and voila, there you go. But when you get down to it, the fact is, we know SO SO SO very little about our world, about ourselves. We rely so much on medicine and science, and our doctors, but the truth of the matter is that the human body is still very much a mystery. A very fragile one, at that.
It's a harsh way of looking at it, and trust me, I speak from experience - my mother is a breast cancer survivor, with a genetic hereditary trait, which means, I will very likely inherit the gene myself. In the back of my mind, I already know exactly what my path is going to be in this world, without exactly knowing.
But, at the same time, I try to absorb it by trying to remember each and every day, at least a few times a day, that the very fact that we EXIST, and run around in our crazy little machines, type on these crazy little gadgets talking to people over cyberspace, just the fact that we have such emotional depth - it's all just a precious, precious miracle that lasts for just a short breath, even for those who live into their 90's. I try to take that in everyday, and appreciate all of it, even the mundane, and exquisitely painful parts.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 8:58 PM |
| |
|
mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by prncss
I know that what I just said is totally far-fetched, but sometimes, I just feel like that's the way it is.
Rach, this is exactly why I brought it up.
I completely agree with what you said...AIDS is a terrible, horrible disease that should be eradicated completely, but it IS an avoidable disease in modern society with proper birth control and educated choice in place.
Cancer does NOT discriminate, young, old, babies, parents...it strikes so many people for so many unknown reasons. It infuriates me...
|
| Posted 9/21/07 9:03 PM |
| |
|
BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I must have sounded so crazy with what I said. I just think sometimes that there must be some level of that going on. I mean, seriously, it's not a coincidence that there's a pill on the market for EVERYTHING now and every other commercial is for one of them. Anyway, that's off-topic. Just wanted to say, I'm not a crazy conspiracy theorist
|
| Posted 9/21/07 9:11 PM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by prncss
I was actually thinking about this in the car today. I have some very "conspiracy theory" type thoughts on this country that I sometimes think just might be true. I feel like this country is just one big, greedy, nasty place sometimes and that people are getting sick and these pharmaceutical companies just eat it up and make money off of our despair. It's almost as if the food we sell in our stores leads us to these horrible diseases, which leads us to knock on the door of the pharmaceutical companies. Like it's some sort of grand plan to make money off of the misfortune of people.
I know that what I just said is totally far-fetched, but sometimes, I just feel like that's the way it is.
I agree - I have trouble putting things like this into words but I agree. I think we are living in a sick, sad, and greedy world and its only getting worse.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 9:24 PM |
| |
|
DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I'm reading The Ethics of What We Eat by Peter Singer and if it doesnt make me a vegetarian by the end of it, nothing will.
Just read the part about conditions of a chicken farm.
I'm no scientist, but I think so many diseases are directly tied to all the chemicals we put into our body and all the crap we eat.
|
| Posted 9/21/07 10:03 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Hmmm...I would choose not to believe it, only because of the great strides made. 20 years ago people died from AIDS....They DONT anymore.
AIDS was so fast growing that Its research was done in a fuller force then that of many cancers.
Breast Cancer for example is the new " IT" Fundraiser and its research is done at a level that research for things like Lymphoma just does not see....
Do I think that the Government hides, hinders or delays certain things you all mentioned and could a cure have possibly be found already...YES YES YES, but for lack if funding reason IMO and lack of government involvement.
I think other countires though are not like ours and would have also found something if it were there to find.
|
| Posted 9/22/07 12:27 AM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by dm24angel
I think other countires though are not like ours and would have also found something if it were there to find.
Agreed!
most of the geniuses throughout history were from other countries anyway, so i'm assuming that if something is found, it won't be our government, and therefore cannot be hidden by our goverment. if that makes any sense? 
|
| Posted 9/22/07 1:24 AM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
to be honest, the saddest thing about AIDS is that its preventable (to a degree, in many circumstances). But, people have to care to want to prevent it and to want to be informed and to take the necessary precautions to stop the spread, but, they dont. People dont truly grasp the severity of it- or their actions- until theyre affected by it, in so many cases. Cancer and AIDs are 2 completely different entities. Also, i think that we're more AWARE of cancer now- because we're at that point in our lives where we realize the magnitude of this disease and how devastating it can be to those around us... but.. it was always there. Just because we didnt notice it as much, doesnt mean that it didnt exist. 
Message edited 9/22/2007 1:30:14 AM.
|
| Posted 9/22/07 1:29 AM |
| |
|
Emily
Kasey & Me! Lurves it!
Member since 7/06 8703 total posts
Name:
STBHC
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by mommy2bella
anyone else care to pontificate?
Before I pontificate... ANIMAL'S MAMA, BELLA'S MAMA USED A S.A.T. WORD ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
Natural Selection and survival of the fittest are good in theory but in reality they just don't pan out. So many new diseases and cancers are being discovered because we messed with animals, fruit, veggies, etc. Why does LI have such high breast cancer rates? Why do people smoke when they know the outcome might not be a happy one? Why do people stuff their faces with massed produced junk food when they know they will probably get fat? People do it because they can or because the ads look good.
|
| Posted 9/22/07 9:13 AM |
| |
|
MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by Ophelia
I was just talking with a friend yesterday about our food.
we really have NO idea how much food additives and the hormones injected into animals to make them larger have effected us on a biological level.
research has linked this already to early menstrual development in young girls.
I just here of so many young people dying of cancer, or battling it.
it's crazy.
some people also have a theory about AIDS and pharmaceutical companies, b/c they make more money sustaining a life ON medications than they do with one dose that will cure you. they instantly lose a customer with a cure.
I have this conversation very often. People ate fatty meat and carbs everyday not more than 50 years ago & the rate of cancer was not even close to what it is today
Message edited 9/22/2007 10:17:27 AM.
|
| Posted 9/22/07 10:17 AM |
| |
|
MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22150 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
I think about this, too, and wonder as well, if the higher rates of infertility are also a way of nature controlling population.
Granted, I know the higher numbers and rates of things are relative b/c of the higher population rates. I know that the statistics are not as cut and dry. For example, the number of shark attacks increased over the last 20 years. However, the number of people at the beach increased as well, so increases in statistics usually correlate.
However, in these cases, I think the rates of diagnosis supercede the rates of population increasing.
So, what is it?
|
| Posted 9/22/07 10:27 AM |
| |
|
kms717
St Philomena Protect My Son
Member since 2/06 2747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Funny you should post this today. My neighbor and I were at Target last night and they had a whole line of kitchen products that are pink for breast cancer. We were talking about the billions of dollars that cancer research has recieved and the years that they have been working on a cure and yet there is no cure. It's a horrible disease and one that touches so many of us.
|
| Posted 9/22/07 10:29 AM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by kms717
Funny you should post this today. My neighbor and I were at Target last night and they had a whole line of kitchen products that are pink for breast cancer. We were talking about the billions of dollars that cancer research has recieved and the years that they have been working on a cure and yet there is no cure. It's a horrible disease and one that touches so many of us.
True, there is no cure, however, incredible advances have been made recently(within years). There is now greater imaging and technology available to detect the disease or susceptibility of the disease earlier. is it a cure? no, but less women will die from it if they take advanatage of screening. A gene linked to breast and ovarian cancer("braca" genes) has been isolated so that those with genetic risk can asess how high their risk really is, so that women know to have more screenings or even prophylactic mastectomy if wanted. So, there have been incredible advances, but ofcourse nothing would be as great as a cure.
|
| Posted 9/23/07 8:53 PM |
| |
|
beautyq115
New Year!
Member since 5/05 13729 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Interesting thought...I have never really thought about this. Makes sense though but that would be really effed up if true
|
| Posted 9/23/07 8:55 PM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by Emily
Posted by mommy2bella
anyone else care to pontificate?
Before I pontificate... ANIMAL'S MAMA, BELLA'S MAMA USED A S.A.T. WORD ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
Natural Selection and survival of the fittest are good in theory but in reality they just don't pan out. So many new diseases and cancers are being discovered because we messed with animals, fruit, veggies, etc. Why does LI have such high breast cancer rates? Why do people smoke when they know the outcome might not be a happy one? Why do people stuff their faces with massed produced junk food when they know they will probably get fat? People do it because they can or because the ads look good.
BTW, what you are describing is natural selection at its finest. are new disease being discovered? perhaps, but new diseases have been evolving since the dawn of man, but there is greater detection and scientific knowledge now to understand this process. the population is also exponentially increasing so ofcourse there is more opportunity for different diseases to evolve. im sure people said same thing when the plague hit.
people choose to smoke and eat crap. this is also selection. people who have motivation and concern to help themselves be healthy have greater opportunity to survive. why do some people care and others not? psychological variation, intellectual variation ect...this is all part of the natural selection model.
|
| Posted 9/23/07 9:00 PM |
| |
|
DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Two thoughts off the top of my head.
Cancer, unlike AIDS, has sooo many strains, in so many body places that present itself in so many different ways.
The science that is blamed for not coming up with a cure is the same science that makes it possible to get diagnosed. Perhaps it seems like more people have cancer..maybe that is true or maybe its just more people learn of it because we have science, live longer and have the WWW to spread the word (and FAST)
|
| Posted 9/23/07 9:09 PM |
| |
|
JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by DebG
Two thoughts off the top of my head.
Cancer, unlike AIDS, has sooo many strains, in so many body places that present itself in so many different ways.
The science that is blamed for not coming up with a cure is the same science that makes it possible to get diagnosed. Perhaps it seems like more people have cancer..maybe that is true or maybe its just more people learn of it because we have science, live longer and have the WWW to spread the word (and FAST)
I agree with you on this Deb  . Cancer is not like AIDS, there will never be "a cure" for cancer. There will be a wide range of treatments, maybe including some vaccines to prevent some types (like HPV), and maybe, maybe eventually some gene therapy to "cure" certain mutations. However, although I am leery of pharmaceutical companies, I really doubt they are hiding a "cure" just to keep making a profit. I do agree though that most industry-funded research is focused on designing drugs that will make them the most money- of course that would not include ANY "cures"- (by the way that's why so few companies actually make vaccines- they are not big money makers for pharmacutical companies)- if you look at a list of the top selling drugs, the top 5 drugs are Lipitor (cholesterol), Advair (asthma), Plavix (prevent blood clots) Nexium (GI disorders), and Norvasc (high blood pressure) link to Wikipedia page are all treat very common diseases/symptoms, and all are drugs that you have to take long term- of course this helps their bottom line.
But, that doesn't mean there is no hope for cancer research- first, there are financial incentives the govt gives to drug companies if they design drugs for any "rare" disease (according to Wikipedia, fewer than 200,000 patients in the US). Also, the NIH funds cancer research- just in 1 year, the National Cancer Institute (part of the NIH) had a budget of $4.83 billion cancer.gov, including $560.1 million for breast cancer alone. A large portion of this money goes to individual scientists who are working on cancer reserach. So scientists that are not connected to any pharmaceutical company, and are not influenced in any way, are working hard to try and understand how cancer happens and how to fight it.
Ok so the following is my attempt to explain why cancer is such a complex disease, which is why it is so hard to understand and to fight. The body is in such a delicate balance- in order to survive, our cells need to constantly multiply, but, it has to be tightly regulated. So each cell has instructions inside of itself to either divide, differentiate (which means it becomes a specialized type of cell, like a nerve cell, skin cell, blood cell, etc), or die (commits suicide- normally when a cell "realizes" that it has a mutation or something wrong, it will automatically die). There are thousands of proteins and hundreds of signals that control this balance. Cancer is caused when there is an imbalance that leads to unregulated growth- it can happen either by activating more cell division, blocking or reversing differentiation, or blocking cell suicide. It's even more complicated because it matters where the tumor grows, and whether it metastasizes- normally if a cell (other than a blood cell) loses its connection to other cells, it will commit suicide- if there is a mutation in a protein involved in this protection, cells could leave the tumor and spread around the body.
Anyway, sorry for the long explanation but I just wanted to point out how many things can go wrong in our body to cause cancer. mommy2bella, I understand how you feel, it IS so unfair- I think with all these "Race for the Cure" and other slogans, we've been made to think there will be a cure in our lifetime.
|
| Posted 9/23/07 11:12 PM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by JessieQ
Ok so the following is my attempt to explain why cancer is such a complex disease, which is why it is so hard to understand and to fight. The body is in such a delicate balance- in order to survive, our cells need to constantly multiply, but, it has to be tightly regulated. So each cell has instructions inside of itself to either divide, differentiate (which means it becomes a specialized type of cell, like a nerve cell, skin cell, blood cell, etc), or die (commits suicide- normally when a cell "realizes" that it has a mutation or something wrong, it will automatically die). There are thousands of proteins and hundreds of signals that control this balance. Cancer is caused when there is an imbalance that leads to unregulated growth- it can happen either by activating more cell division, blocking or reversing differentiation, or blocking cell suicide. It's even more complicated because it matters where the tumor grows, and whether it metastasizes- normally if a cell (other than a blood cell) loses its connection to other cells, it will commit suicide- if there is a mutation in a protein involved in this protection, cells could leave the tumor and spread around the body.
In my A&P class a few years ago, a few of us were talking about this- when you think about the amount of cell replications that occur in a single DAY, alone... its amazing that the prevelance of cancer and mutations isn't so much higher than it is. Although ANY case of cancer seems like 1 too many, its astounding that that process occurs sooo often and so (for the most part) precisely.
|
| Posted 9/23/07 11:18 PM |
| |
|
JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
Posted by neenie
In my A&P class a few years ago, a few of us were talking about this- when you think about the amount of cell replications that occur in a single DAY, alone... its amazing that the prevelance of cancer and mutations isn't so much higher than it is. Although ANY case of cancer seems like 1 too many, its astounding that that process occurs sooo often and so (for the most part) precisely.
I agree, it is actually amazing how accurate DNA replication is! But like you said, even one case is too many.
|
| Posted 9/23/07 11:38 PM |
| |
|
stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Natural Selection and Modern Society...
You know I have been thinking this recently as well but then a few months ago there was that scientific discovery with respect to the Egyptian queen (i forget her name) and using new techniques they were able to determine that she was diabetic, overweight, she was in her 20s or 30s (i forget which) and she died of bone cancer.
I found it very interesting because I usually think that it is something in our environment and our food but when you see than thousands of years ago relatively young people were also afflicted with cancer it makes me reevaluate my theories and think that perhaps it has always been there in these numbers...I don't know...
|
| Posted 9/23/07 11:49 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 |
