Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

DS is almost 9. DD is 3 1/2.

DD is SO defiant. VERY hard headed and independent. Listens when SHE wants. Does what SHE wants. She is in FT daycare, and her behavior has become so "bad" that they give me a daily report on her - (morning/naptime/afternoon) either a smile or a frown. (it's been 3 weeks now).

Yesterday was the WORST since the start of the behavior reports, she was ALL frowns. When I walked into the room to pick her up, she came over to me and said "Mommy, I was bad all day" with a smirk. Also, yesterday morning DH asked her what she did the day before, she said "I was a bad girl. I didn't listen"

I have been doing ALL I can to (within reason) follow thru on consequences, but it becomes a challenge for me. For example, DS has lacrosse practice 2x a week - DD usually gets to watch videos or play on playground during practice. However, when she is bad, she doesn't get those things. But what am I to do?? Sit in the car with her while she has the mother of all meltdowns?!?! I stay at practice b/c it's easier (versus drop off, go home, come back).

I get that it's a 3 year old "thing" - but I feel like this is a bit extreme, DS was never this bad. I know they are different kids, but I do not see any hope that it will get better.

When the reports were started, the director talked with DD & I, and I told DD her reward for all smiles every day, I would paint her nails on Friday (she was so excited by this as she never had painted nails before), but if she is frowns, she knows no phone/ipad to watch videos (this isn't every day- but may 2x a week) or I won't lay with her in bed (at bed time).

How do I instill consequences on a 3 year old and NOT disrupt the rest of my world or make my life utterly miserable???

ETA: Time outs DON'T work. I've tried distracting her, works about 1/3 of the time. I am aware of the Threenager term, but this is that times 1000!


ETA: I have been trying to find a common denominator - is it lack of sleep? is it something she ate? is it a certain kid/event? Nothing (yet)

Message edited 4/21/2016 9:06:37 AM.

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

I'm sorry -- this sounds hard. I dont have any firsthand advice as DS isnt into the terrible's yet -- but my doctor swears by this video. She said it has changed her life. The reviews are good.



Magic 123

Message edited 4/21/2016 9:05:47 AM.

Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Honestly, everyone keeps telling me it will get better and easier! My DD is 5 and I'm still waiting! She is extremely defiant, listens to what she wants and only what she wants. It's hard to take her out in public. She can be downright rude and nasty. She doesn't listen. This started when she was about 2.5. Time outs don't work, I've tried every method people have suggested. 123 magic worked for a while but then she didn't give a sh!t anymore. With both my boys this method works great, not my DD though. I just keep hoping it's a long phase and we'll get through it. Sorry, that's all I got! Hugs to you!

Message edited 4/21/2016 8:57:43 AM.

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

I know you don't want to make your life miserable but you may have too just so DD knows you mean business. I see you give consequence I would continue with them and follow through even if its at lacrosse practice and if that means sitting in the car with her while she has a melt down I would do it.
when you are home and she is have melt down I would put her in her room and close the door if she comes out put her right back in. I do this with DD and she knows she is not allowed back down until she stops the tantrum. I think consistency is the key.

and sorry to say it doesn't get easier. DD is 5 and you would think she was a teenager

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

What about more immediate, daily rewards? Painted nails could be when she has 3 good days in a row or something? I'd make a chart at home, too, so she can see the frowns vs smiles. Clearly she knows that she's being bad, but maybe she has to see what being good brings her?

Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

I would try the more immediate rewards too. When you're dealing with a drastic situation, go big and immediate with rewards and consequences. A good day maybe a new toy or painted nails as soon as you get home. After she gets into better habits your can wean down to a smaller reward like a Hershey kiss or something. All frowns, I'd go big and take a favorite toy away for the day. In the long run it may be more than worth it to deal with a few massive meltdowns for her to know that you mean business. Sorry you're dealing with this

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by luckysmom

Honestly, everyone keeps telling me it will get better and easier! My DD is 5 and I'm still waiting! She is extremely defiant, listens to what she wants and only what she wants. It's hard to take her out in public. She can be downright rude and nasty. She doesn't listen. This started when she was about 2.5. Time outs don't work, I've tried every method people have suggested. 123 magic worked for a while but then she didn't give a sh!t anymore. With both my boys this method works great, not my DD though. I just keep hoping it's a long phase and we'll get through it. Sorry, that's all I got! Hugs to you!

There is a medical diagnosis called O.D.D. Oppositional Defiance Disorder. For some DC, the "terrible 2s" can last until 9,10, or longer. For kids with ODD, absolutely no "quick fix" solution will work. Not rewards, not discussions, not punishment, not 123 magic, nothing.

It's tough because most people don't understand, and will give you advice that worked for their DC, who is just going through a growth stage, and don't truly have a defiant child, even if it may feel like it to them at the time.

At the age of 5, you may want to start asking doctors about an ODD diagnosis. Most kids grow out of the defiant, tantrum stage before 5.

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by luckysmom

Honestly, everyone keeps telling me it will get better and easier! My DD is 5 and I'm still waiting! She is extremely defiant, listens to what she wants and only what she wants. It's hard to take her out in public. She can be downright rude and nasty. She doesn't listen. This started when she was about 2.5. Time outs don't work, I've tried every method people have suggested. 123 magic worked for a while but then she didn't give a sh!t anymore. With both my boys this method works great, not my DD though. I just keep hoping it's a long phase and we'll get through it. Sorry, that's all I got! Hugs to you!

There is a medical diagnosis called O.D.D. Oppositional Defiance Disorder. For some DC, the "terrible 2s" can last until 9,10, or longer. For kids with ODD, absolutely no "quick fix" solution will work. Not rewards, not discussions, not punishment, not 123 magic, nothing.

It's tough because most people don't understand, and will give you advice that worked for their DC, who is just going through a growth stage, and don't truly have a defiant child, even if it may feel like it to them at the time.

At the age of 5, you may want to start asking doctors about an ODD diagnosis. Most kids grow out of the defiant, tantrum stage before 5.

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

I agree with immediate rewards. Even multiple times a day. At school for students, we've done a reward at noon and again at end of day. If it's too long a wait, or too hard to get (too many days,) they lose motivation.After some success, you can stretch the time between the rewards.

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

AT that age, everything should be very very visual

As soon as she wakes up - you should have a visual behavior chart and good behavior should constantly be rewarded
Set up the chart with everything that you want her to do/ accomplish today

at three you can not just say behave
that means nothing to them - it is too abstract

start very simple and basic and build from there

so example:

you want her to brush her teeth
her behavior chart should have a picture of teeth or tooth brush etc....
then have two columns -
one smiley face and one sad face
smiley face - reward - ex: cookie
sad face - punishment- cookie taken away
The cookie should be in a clear bag attached to the behavior chart
if she brushes her teeth - you say great job and give her the cookie
if she refuses to brush her teeth (typically I will set a visual count down timer for say 2 minutes and if the task is not completed by that amount of time you lose your reward) - you say try again next time/I know you can do better and take the cookie away. That is it, do not engage in tantrum behavior, do not have a discussion nothing. Just say we can try teeth brushing again before bed time or tomorrow and lets now work on the next task when she is calm
and then on to the next task
ex- putting her shirt on with the visual reward in a baggie on the behavior chart

rewards should be small so say you do use cookies - get the small round cookies (size of a cheese it) not a huge oreo - if you have ten tasks for the day, there are ten cookies in the bag.

you need to be very very consistent
and never clear with your direction and goal and reward
it is time consuming in the beginning but completely worth the effort

at school - trying to behave all day is way too long for a three year old also
she needs to earn X amount of smiley faces for whatever tasks they want her to complete - clean up crayons, sit at circle time, etc......you can either do it by task or by amount of time
After she earns say three smiley faces on her behavior chart she earns three minutes of ipad, play time, coloring, edible etc.....

as time goes by you make the tasks harder, time periods longer etc.......

hope this is helpful

Message edited 4/21/2016 8:12:26 PM.

Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Thank you above poster for sharing, this is great!

Re: Is there hope? VERY defiant 3 1/2 year old

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by luckysmom

Honestly, everyone keeps telling me it will get better and easier! My DD is 5 and I'm still waiting! She is extremely defiant, listens to what she wants and only what she wants. It's hard to take her out in public. She can be downright rude and nasty. She doesn't listen. This started when she was about 2.5. Time outs don't work, I've tried every method people have suggested. 123 magic worked for a while but then she didn't give a sh!t anymore. With both my boys this method works great, not my DD though. I just keep hoping it's a long phase and we'll get through it. Sorry, that's all I got! Hugs to you!

There is a medical diagnosis called O.D.D. Oppositional Defiance Disorder. For some DC, the "terrible 2s" can last until 9,10, or longer. For kids with ODD, absolutely no "quick fix" solution will work. Not rewards, not discussions, not punishment, not 123 magic, nothing.

It's tough because most people don't understand, and will give you advice that worked for their DC, who is just going through a growth stage, and don't truly have a defiant child, even if it may feel like it to them at the time.

At the age of 5, you may want to start asking doctors about an ODD diagnosis. Most kids grow out of the defiant, tantrum stage before 5.