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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by Goldi0218
As one of the few posters who actually lived during Carter's election and Presidency, I can honestly say that I have NEVER heard anyone place blame on the Congress in session in the late 70s. Or the Senate. Carter took all of the lumps. But hey, it HAD to be ALL of his fault right?
Carter was one of the worst presidents EVER!!!!!! You can't blame congress for that man's idiocy....
But what about three branches of government? We still have those dont we? Carter has a horrible legacy and I sure as hell ain't defending him but to say it was all him isn't fair.
ITA. Carter's mistake was not playing the Washington game. Isn't that what we want? Someone not to play party lines? It just goes to show you that you can't win either way.
Carter was/is no idiot. His presidency usually ranks in the lower middle range- rarely at the bottom.
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Posted 12/29/12 1:40 PM  |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
The guy is keen on communism and bankrupting the nation. Just look at how many are unemployed now. Wait and see how many more people are on food stamps and unemployment by the end of O's term. Many are too blind to see it. Just wait and see. I'm not otiimistic about his update at 5:45. This is a disaster.
He's a Muslim terrorist, what else do you expect?!?!?!
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| Posted 12/29/12 2:03 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by rojerono
Posted by LSP2005
In my mind the SOTH cannot rally his base. He could not even pass an alternative measure. He is politically done. The Republican party is so fractured and he cannot get anyone to agree. Then there are others who are gunning for his job. They are not helping the PEOPLE because they want the SOTH job themselves. So rather than doing the right thing for the PEOPLE they are sitting back and letting the country rot. It is disgusting. He has no one behind him. Unless the SOTH can figure out how to rally his party behind him nothing is going to happen.
Boehner's plan didn't pass because the Dems and the president had made it very clear that IF it got through the house it was NEVER going to get past the senate or president. Nobody wanted to back a plan that raised taxes when they KNEW it would fail. It would make them look like they supported raising taxes even if the measure didn't stick.
I don't blame any single person or party. I think the whole thing is a shit show.
And I don't know the answers. I want to help get us out of debt. I want to support valid social programs. I want to help people less fortunate than myself with my tax dollars... but the fact is that I'm already in a precarious financial situation. I'm barely scraping by now.. more taxes and I don't know HOW we will do it at all. More taxes and the small business I work for may not be able to sustain keeping me on board and I might find myself unemployed. More taxes and there will be less money for businesses to spend, less new buildings, less jobs for my husband. Two people unemployed.. instead of being tax payers.. we will become tax burdens. Then what? We go further in debt.. the tax burden continues to increase and more 'wealthy' people stop spending their money, more jobs are lost and we have more people on the system. How do we rectify it? Continue to squeeze the wealthy? Tell them that instead of keeping 40 dollars of every 100.. we now have to keep 50? And when that doesn't work we say we want 60%? 70%? Or do we start cutting social programs? Start rationing food because there are too many poor to feed?
I can see a road that we could head down.. I don't mean it to be a pessimist.. but I am legitimately nervous about the possibilities if we don't work something out.. and soon. Not a temporary fix.. because those bandages keep falling off and we keep winding up right back in the same place.. over and over and over..
The fact is trickle down economics does not work. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy doesn't help the economy. It hasn't for the last 12 years and it's never going to.
There is something very wrong when my retired, 69 year old father's tax percentage was higher then Mitt Romney's. The wealthy need to start pay a fare share and take on at least an equal tax burden to the middle class.
ETA: I agree with you that the band aids and quick fixes need to stop. Compromise is hard, but something has to give.
I think the problem lies in the characterization of what wealthy is. I think most people are on board with taxing multimillionaires more. However, I think that in NY a family of 4 or 5 making 250k or 300k is not wealthy and is not the same as Mitt Romney. I am not saying they are poor but they make too much for standard tax breaks but not enough to take advantage of tax shelters. I was in agreement with Boehners plan to increase that number to 1 million as that would exclude the small business owners that are keeping our economy afloat.
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
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| Posted 12/29/12 2:12 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
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| Posted 12/29/12 2:32 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by Janice
We don't fear paying more in taxes...we just fear where the money will be spent.
for the past 6 years anything left over monthly goes to medical bills. i want to believe in the public school system, but with resources being cut-i am tempted to go private.
so, if a few thousand annually goes to healthcare and schools-i come out ahead
Well, the money won't fund that. We have a trillion dollar deficit right now that is ridiculous. All the money we owe China, all the people on welfare and unemployment..... It goes on and on. You should fear how much your taxes are going to go up. This is federal. Wait until state taxes start climbing. Then we are really screwed. Enough is enough already!!!!!!!!! And yes, I blame Obama. He should have been here for the past two weeks trying his best to convince the idiots to come up with something. Instead, he takes off and goes on his one of many lavish vacations with his family. But I'm clearly the minority here so whatever. You're all entitled to your opinions. I understand how the economy works and I understand that it is looking VERY grim. And I have very solid reasons on why I blame him. It's not a point to go into it with women that refuse to try and understand because of lack of understanding. I'm done here. Just wait and see what happens in the next four years.
You accuse others of "lack of understanding" while you state that Obama is a communist and Carter is an idiot?
Actually, there are - although I admit not often - rich debates on here with respect to these issues. Feel free to join them; however, you're best off bringing facts and/or opinions supported by facts.
I don't know anyone who lives/lived in Cuba so I would love to hear more about the changes you see here that you say resemble life there.
However, tell us these things without a proclamation about communism that has no basis in fact. Communism is a very specific political ideology that calls for supremacy of the state, government ownership of business and property, a command economy, and few to no civil liberties. That is not what we have here, no matter how bad things get.
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| Posted 12/29/12 3:14 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by rojerono
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by rojerono
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by rojerono
Posted by LSP2005
In my mind the SOTH cannot rally his base. He could not even pass an alternative measure. He is politically done. The Republican party is so fractured and he cannot get anyone to agree. Then there are others who are gunning for his job. They are not helping the PEOPLE because they want the SOTH job themselves. So rather than doing the right thing for the PEOPLE they are sitting back and letting the country rot. It is disgusting. He has no one behind him. Unless the SOTH can figure out how to rally his party behind him nothing is going to happen.
Boehner's plan didn't pass because the Dems and the president had made it very clear that IF it got through the house it was NEVER going to get past the senate or president. Nobody wanted to back a plan that raised taxes when they KNEW it would fail. It would make them look like they supported raising taxes even if the measure didn't stick.
I don't blame any single person or party. I think the whole thing is a shit show.
And I don't know the answers. I want to help get us out of debt. I want to support valid social programs. I want to help people less fortunate than myself with my tax dollars... but the fact is that I'm already in a precarious financial situation. I'm barely scraping by now.. more taxes and I don't know HOW we will do it at all. More taxes and the small business I work for may not be able to sustain keeping me on board and I might find myself unemployed. More taxes and there will be less money for businesses to spend, less new buildings, less jobs for my husband. Two people unemployed.. instead of being tax payers.. we will become tax burdens. Then what? We go further in debt.. the tax burden continues to increase and more 'wealthy' people stop spending their money, more jobs are lost and we have more people on the system. How do we rectify it? Continue to squeeze the wealthy? Tell them that instead of keeping 40 dollars of every 100.. we now have to keep 50? And when that doesn't work we say we want 60%? 70%? Or do we start cutting social programs? Start rationing food because there are too many poor to feed?
I can see a road that we could head down.. I don't mean it to be a pessimist.. but I am legitimately nervous about the possibilities if we don't work something out.. and soon. Not a temporary fix.. because those bandages keep falling off and we keep winding up right back in the same place.. over and over and over..
The fact is trickle down economics does not work. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy doesn't help the economy. It hasn't for the last 12 years and it's never going to.
There is something very wrong when my retired, 69 year old father's tax percentage was higher then Mitt Romney's. The wealthy need to start pay a fare share and take on at least an equal tax burden to the middle class.
ETA: I agree with you that the band aids and quick fixes need to stop. Compromise is hard, but something has to give.
I think the problem lies in the characterization of what wealthy is. I think most people are on board with taxing multimillionaires more. However, I think that in NY a family of 4 or 5 making 250k or 300k is not wealthy and is not the same as Mitt Romney. I am not saying they are poor but they make too much for standard tax breaks but not enough to take advantage of tax shelters. I was in agreement with Boehners plan to increase that number to 1 million as that would exclude the small business owners that are keeping our economy afloat.
BINGO.
I don't mind 'fair share'... I think it's ridiculous to have breaks and loopholes that bring a person's tax responsibility down to 10% when they are making 20000000 a year.. but I'm also not buying into the idea that someone who makes that kind of money is responsible for paying MORE than their fair share either. We all work hard, we all deserve to try and live the best lives within our means.
THAT isn't trickle down.. that is just right.
Do you think a flat tax is the way to go then? Everyone pays 15% or what not? I agree that billionaires shouldn't pay more but they sure as hell shouldn't be paying less!
Flat tax sounds good in theory, but unfortunately the sad fact is that the majority of people don't make enough that their 'contribution' would amount to much. The distribution of wealth in this country - be it due to opportunity, work ethic, education, luck, legacy or whatever else is obviously lopsided. In order to keep society working optimally, I think that we must have a tiered tax structure. BUT tiered should not mean that some people are burdened in such a way that they are effectively 'punished' for having money. KWIM?
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up shit's creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
Message edited 12/29/2012 3:32:42 PM.
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| Posted 12/29/12 3:31 PM |
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BeachGal
LIF Adult
Member since 2/10 2827 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
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| Posted 12/29/12 5:34 PM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JennP
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by Janice
We don't fear paying more in taxes...we just fear where the money will be spent.
for the past 6 years anything left over monthly goes to medical bills. i want to believe in the public school system, but with resources being cut-i am tempted to go private.
so, if a few thousand annually goes to healthcare and schools-i come out ahead
Well, the money won't fund that. We have a trillion dollar deficit right now that is ridiculous. All the money we owe China, all the people on welfare and unemployment..... It goes on and on. You should fear how much your taxes are going to go up. This is federal. Wait until state taxes start climbing. Then we are really screwed. Enough is enough already!!!!!!!!! And yes, I blame Obama. He should have been here for the past two weeks trying his best to convince the idiots to come up with something. Instead, he takes off and goes on his one of many lavish vacations with his family. But I'm clearly the minority here so whatever. You're all entitled to your opinions. I understand how the economy works and I understand that it is looking VERY grim. And I have very solid reasons on why I blame him. It's not a point to go into it with women that refuse to try and understand because of lack of understanding. I'm done here. Just wait and see what happens in the next four years.
You accuse others of "lack of understanding" while you state that Obama is a communist and Carter is an idiot?
Actually, there are - although I admit not often - rich debates on here with respect to these issues. Feel free to join them; however, you're best off bringing facts and/or opinions supported by facts.
I don't know anyone who lives/lived in Cuba so I would love to hear more about the changes you see here that you say resemble life there.
However, tell us these things without a proclamation about communism that has no basis in fact. Communism is a very specific political ideology that calls for supremacy of the state, government ownership of business and property, a command economy, and few to no civil liberties. That is not what we have here, no matter how bad things get.
Marry me? You said what I wanted to say without being a total ***** about it.
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:31 PM |
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Jbon630
LIF Adult
Member since 12/11 1340 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
If 300k is not wealthy, I must not have a pot to p!ss in!!! I'd love to be that average 
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:33 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
It's all about the benjamins with these jerks in DC. It's so sad that they're putting their own well being FIRST and the well being of the country to the side. It's corrupt and I blame them all. Figure it out!!
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:38 PM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JennP
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up shit's creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
I had said before that I do agree that the amount of loopholes and tax breaks that only the wealthiest are eligible for is crazy pants. We are on the same page.
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:39 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
QUOTE]
The fact is trickle down economics does not work. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy doesn't help the economy. It hasn't for the last 12 years and it's never going to.
There is something very wrong when my retired, 69 year old father's tax percentage was higher then Mitt Romney's. The wealthy need to start pay a fare share and take on at least an equal tax burden to the middle class.
ETA: I agree with you that the band aids and quick fixes need to stop. Compromise is hard, but something has to give.
I agree with this and I believe it's happened before. Didn't Reagan raise taxes on the wealthy when he had to? It just makes sense to me.
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:48 PM |
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mrsyoungmommy
can't wait to meet Sophia!
Member since 6/10 1441 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by rojerono
Posted by JennP
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up ****'s creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
I had said before that I do agree that the amount of loopholes and tax breaks that only the wealthiest are eligible for is crazy pants. We are on the same page.
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
This. DH and I were just talking about how at 26 and 27, we bought our first house. Because we worked our asses off. The sense of entitlement with Americans disgusts me.
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| Posted 12/29/12 6:49 PM |
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BeachGrl
LIF Adult
Member since 10/11 2140 total posts
Name:
Kristy
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
[QUOTE
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
This. DH and I were just talking about how at 26 and 27, we bought our first house. Because we worked our asses off. The sense of entitlement with Americans disgusts me.
This! I believe you should work for your money. DH and I work our butts off to own our home and be able to pay our bills. DH works two jobs and I go to night school. I don't think people should feel "entitled" to anything. You want it, you work for it. If you are able bodied, then you work plain and simple. I'm tired of having to pay for people to get a free ride...and there are ALOT of able bodied Americans getting free rides bc they're lazy. It needs to end.
ETA sorry I messed up the quotes somehow
Message edited 12/29/2012 7:07:24 PM.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:06 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jbon630
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
If 300k is not wealthy, I must not have a pot to p!ss in!!! I'd love to be that average
For real! I said 500k to be generous, but even 300k on LI is 3x the average household income.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:09 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by BeachGrl
This! I believe you should work for your money. DH and I work our butts off to own our home and be able to pay our bills. DH works two jobs and I go to night school. I don't think people should feel "entitled" to anything. You want it, you work for it. If you are able bodied, then you work plain and simple. I'm tired of having to pay for people to get a free ride...and there are ALOT of able bodied Americans getting free rides bc they're lazy. It needs to end.
Wish I could find a job, I'd love to work instead of getting a "free ride" and "being lazy". But I can't find a job, even part time at Stop and Shop or BJ's or Target.
And I have worked steadily since I was 14 years old. I am 39 now.
 Always so easy to those who aren't living it.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:10 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by rojerono
Posted by JennP
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up shit's creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
I had said before that I do agree that the amount of loopholes and tax breaks that only the wealthiest are eligible for is crazy pants. We are on the same page.
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
I hear you.
I just don't think those things are mutually exclusive; in fact, I think they overlap in many ways.
My own time on UE comes to mind. It enabled me to look for a job in my field without worrying about having to take any job that came up. After only a few weeks I did take part time work in my field and was able to get UE to make up the difference. This part time work enabled me to eventually find a job in my field.
I realize there are people who take advantage of the system. However, this is an unprecedented time in history; we have never, as a population as a whole, had so many well educated people out of work. I don't think this is the time to cut the benefits that are keeping those people afloat as they figure out what to do. Many people have it worse than I did and will need to go back to school or otherwise step out of the workforce for awhile.
I realize you have had your own hardships so I am not really responding specifically to you, more in general.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:14 PM |
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BeachGrl
LIF Adult
Member since 10/11 2140 total posts
Name:
Kristy
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by tara73
Posted by BeachGrl
This! I believe you should work for your money. DH and I work our butts off to own our home and be able to pay our bills. DH works two jobs and I go to night school. I don't think people should feel "entitled" to anything. You want it, you work for it. If you are able bodied, then you work plain and simple. I'm tired of having to pay for people to get a free ride...and there are ALOT of able bodied Americans getting free rides bc they're lazy. It needs to end.
Wish I could find a job, I'd love to work instead of getting a "free ride" and "being lazy". But I can't find a job, even part time at Stop and Shop or BJ's or Target.
And I have worked steadily since I was 14 years old. I am 39 now.
Always so easy to those who aren't living it.
That's not what I'm talking about. I said the able bodied Americans who are not working just bc of laziness. Not the ones that want to and can't for whatever the reason is. The ones that CHOOSE not to try.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:21 PM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JennP
Posted by rojerono
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
I hear you.
I just don't think those things are mutually exclusive; in fact, I think they overlap in many ways.
My own time on UE comes to mind. It enabled me to look for a job in my field without worrying about having to take any job that came up. After only a few weeks I did take part time work in my field and was able to get UE to make up the difference. This part time work enabled me to eventually find a job in my field.
I realize there are people who take advantage of the system. However, this is an unprecedented time in history; we have never, as a population as a whole, had so many well educated people out of work. I don't think this is the time to cut the benefits that are keeping those people afloat as they figure out what to do. Many people have it worse than I did and will need to go back to school or otherwise step out of the workforce for awhile.
I realize you have had your own hardships so I am not really responding specifically to you, more in general.
Yes. We are still on the same page. I think social programs are IMPERATIVE for some people. I think we need to offer assistance to people.. it creates the opportunities for attaining goals that I was talking about.
But a lot of those programs are in desperate need of reform. A lot of people (even people who make a decent living) are in desperate need of education relative to saving and understanding the difference between a leg up and a hand out.
But I don't believe our government is really interested in those kind of things. It's all spit and glue... and that's starting to decay more and more rapidly.
I'm scared and I'm sad.
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| Posted 12/29/12 7:42 PM |
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by tara73
Posted by BeachGrl
This! I believe you should work for your money. DH and I work our butts off to own our home and be able to pay our bills. DH works two jobs and I go to night school. I don't think people should feel "entitled" to anything. You want it, you work for it. If you are able bodied, then you work plain and simple. I'm tired of having to pay for people to get a free ride...and there are ALOT of able bodied Americans getting free rides bc they're lazy. It needs to end.
Wish I could find a job, I'd love to work instead of getting a "free ride" and "being lazy". But I can't find a job, even part time at Stop and Shop or BJ's or Target.
And I have worked steadily since I was 14 years old. I am 39 now.
Always so easy to those who aren't living it.
 
I wish people would read up before making statements like, "must be nice to collect welfare and do nothing" and "I work for my money, everyone should" and my favorite, "Obama's a communist." A lot of this "entitlement" spending is Social Security, which is going up because the population is aging- my parents and your parents who worked for many years and paid into the system.
And Obama requires people to work as a condition of receiving welfare. source Whether or not that's enforced is not his responsibility.
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| Posted 12/29/12 8:49 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
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| Posted 12/29/12 9:50 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
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| Posted 12/29/12 9:52 PM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
I don't see where the poster said anything that took even a remote swipe at people who were using the system legitimately?
The fact is social programs were set up to HELP people. They were set up to give folks a lift when they just can't make it on their own for whatever the reasons may be. It's important - it's CRITICAL to look after the people in our society who can't help themselves.
My niece is 38 years old and mentally, physically and emotionally handicapped. She has a job set up by AHRC so that she can draw a small income, she receives social security benefits. And - when the time comes - she will live in a group home that is subsidized by government funds. My best friend's father is part blind, has a plethora of medical problems and is almost 80. He simply cannot work anymore. He draws social security benefits, he also gets Medicare. My husband has extended unemployment benefits (about to end). He's a union man who actively seeks side jobs and has even tried looking for work outside of the union - sending up to 20 resumes a day with no success. He'd love to be working.. but there is nothing for him right now. I have THREE jobs - but his UEI is what keeps food on our table. I don't think ANYONE is denying that we - as a society are responsible for making certain that folks like this should be taken care of. I didn't interpret BeachGrl's post in that way at all.
Now.. I also know more than a few people who have determined that government subsidies are a WAY OF LIFE. Let's take N for example.. her mother has never worked a day in her life. At 50 she has drawn from a variety of government programs all her life. Is it coincidence that as her youngest child was about to reach 18 she found herself pregnant with another? No - and she admits that with no reservations. And N herself? Having grown up seeing this behavior is also content to accept every benefit the government is willing to give without a single concern as to where the money comes from. She has had many jobs.. she doesn't like working and ultimately will find an excuse to stop working each and every time. And it's okay because she is perfectly fine with the stipend she gets for being a single mom with a small child and no job or education. THAT type of behavior is insane. And it IS NOT as rare as a lot of folks would like to believe.
Now.. I am NOT an Obama detractor. He is the POTUS and I respect the man and the office. But to say that it is not his job to enforce the rules he sets in place is off to me. Not just Obama.. but any president. Any leader.
I'll put it in simplified terms. I manage a facility that does manufacturing. The president of the company lives in another country. As part of my job, he has asked me to coordinate an OSHA compliant safety program... and I did. I created process for a variety of managers to follow and pass on to their own employees. Should I have left it there? I mean.. I told people what they should do.. do I wash my hands and walk away now? Or am I still invested in making certain that they follow through? Since the president of the company asked me to handle it, should he simply assume it is done and never ask about it again? Not in my opinion. I have checked and re-checked that we are compliant and I follow up monthly - because that's the charge I was given. The president of our company also checks in from time to time to make sure we are adhering to the rules we put in place. You know why? Because if something happens and we DO get fined.. I am the one the president will look at as responsible. And HE is the one who will have to dig into his pockets to pay. So it's IMPORTANT that everyone stays involved on some level.
I get that being US President is a lot more than running a corporation.. and I don't expect that he's going to review every welfare application that comes in.. but ultimately HE is the one we as a nation look to if things aren't working properly. HE is accountable as the leader. That might not seem fair.. but that's what it is.
I know this is all a big ramble but I really get a little upset when people assume that anyone who doesn't want to throw their money at programs that don't seem to be working is a horrible person who doesn't want to help those who are less fortunate. That's simply not always true! Just like it's not always true that every person who feels that we need to do more as a country to help the less fortunate is a communist.
It's this kind of crazy line drawing and jumping on every facet of a person's ideology that leads to the insane partisanship we have in the government. NO WONDER the ******* reps can't get it together. Look at the citizens! Democrats are bleeding heart liberals who want to bankrupt our nation and turn us into a communist state where nobody has anything of their own. Republicans are greedy capitalist pigs who want to throw all poor, handicapped and physically disabled people into a valley somewhere and forget they exist.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:21 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by rojerono
I don't see where the poster said anything that took even a remote swipe at people who were using the system legitimately?
edited for space
The poster who said what I am about to quote clarified herself so I don't want to dwell on this but to answer your question, the line "if you are able bodied, then you work plain and simple" does give the impression that if you are able bodied and not working then something is wrong with you. I wasn't one of the people who responded, but it is easy to see why people thought that from the way it was phrased.
I don't see anybody objecting to a reform of entitlement benefits. I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about this specific deadline, right now, and yes, for THIS particular time, I don't think the focus should be on the rich. They're not the ones who need it and they're not the ones who will get the economy going. Meaningful reform will take a LOT longer than two days to come up with.
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| Posted 12/30/12 9:00 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by JennP
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by Janice
We don't fear paying more in taxes...we just fear where the money will be spent.
for the past 6 years anything left over monthly goes to medical bills. i want to believe in the public school system, but with resources being cut-i am tempted to go private.
so, if a few thousand annually goes to healthcare and schools-i come out ahead
Well, the money won't fund that. We have a trillion dollar deficit right now that is ridiculous. All the money we owe China, all the people on welfare and unemployment..... It goes on and on. You should fear how much your taxes are going to go up. This is federal. Wait until state taxes start climbing. Then we are really screwed. Enough is enough already!!!!!!!!! And yes, I blame Obama. He should have been here for the past two weeks trying his best to convince the idiots to come up with something. Instead, he takes off and goes on his one of many lavish vacations with his family. But I'm clearly the minority here so whatever. You're all entitled to your opinions. I understand how the economy works and I understand that it is looking VERY grim. And I have very solid reasons on why I blame him. It's not a point to go into it with women that refuse to try and understand because of lack of understanding. I'm done here. Just wait and see what happens in the next four years.
You accuse others of "lack of understanding" while you state that Obama is a communist and Carter is an idiot?
Actually, there are - although I admit not often - rich debates on here with respect to these issues. Feel free to join them; however, you're best off bringing facts and/or opinions supported by facts.
I don't know anyone who lives/lived in Cuba so I would love to hear more about the changes you see here that you say resemble life there.
However, tell us these things without a proclamation about communism that has no basis in fact. Communism is a very specific political ideology that calls for supremacy of the state, government ownership of business and property, a command economy, and few to no civil liberties. That is not what we have here, no matter how bad things get.
Marry me? You said what I wanted to say without being a total ***** about it.
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| Posted 12/30/12 9:04 AM |
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