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Kate
*****
Member since 5/05 7557 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/4312535/alfie-evans-parents-tom-evans-katie-james-alder-hey-hospital/amp/
A 23 month. old baby has been taken off life support because the court in the UK ordered it. A hospital in Italy offered to take the baby, and even sent a helicopter to pick him up. The police are preventing the parents from taking him! Awful!!
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Posted 4/25/18 8:30 AM  |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
I'm really torn. I can't imagine how it would feel to have a court decide to withdraw life support from my baby. How can you ever give up hope on your child?
But then at the same time, in this case, it seems like there really is no indication that a miracle could happen for this little boy. And my thought is that now is the time for those parents to focus their energy 100% on loving that baby.
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| Posted 4/25/18 9:24 AM |
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drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!
Member since 6/07 8274 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
My heart breaks over this.  Poor baby.
He should be allowed to receive care in Italy.
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| Posted 4/25/18 12:34 PM |
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MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Nobody should make this decison but the parents.
Terrible what they're going through.
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| Posted 4/25/18 1:54 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
While I feel terrible for the family, I think they are wrong like the Terri Schaivo and Jahia cases. These families are clinging to the hope their loved one will live, but what quality is their life? I think they need a lot of therapy to deal with their family member and that they are torturing a nearly dead body.
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| Posted 4/25/18 2:32 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
How does the government have the right to decide when to pull the plug on a person?
That is what scares me in this case.
That is disturbing.
This decision should ALWAYS ALWAYS be with the family.
If they want to keep their child alive, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
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| Posted 4/25/18 2:36 PM |
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Mags1227
Just a mommy ...
Member since 10/10 2665 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
How does the government have the right to decide when to pull the plug on a person?
That is what scares me in this case.
That is disturbing.
This decision should ALWAYS ALWAYS be with the family.
If they want to keep their child alive, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
I may be wrong, but doesn't the UK have universal healthcare? as in the government is paying the bills not the family? in which case, they kind of have a say how tax money is being spent and for how long.
to your second question, is it really keeping the child "alive"? being hooked up to machines to help with all regular body functions is not living. the child is gone, even if they are letting machines keep the body alive. it is time for this fmaily to let go and start mourning the loss not cling to false hope (as previous poster stated)
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| Posted 4/25/18 3:11 PM |
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Mags1227
Posted by NervousNell
How does the government have the right to decide when to pull the plug on a person?
That is what scares me in this case.
That is disturbing.
This decision should ALWAYS ALWAYS be with the family.
If they want to keep their child alive, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
I may be wrong, but doesn't the UK have universal healthcare? as in the government is paying the bills not the family? in which case, they kind of have a say how tax money is being spent and for how long.
to your second question, is it really keeping the child "alive"? being hooked up to machines to help with all regular body functions is not living. the child is gone, even if they are letting machines keep the body alive. it is time for this fmaily to let go and start mourning the loss not cling to false hope (as previous poster stated)
^ this was exactly what I was going to say
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| Posted 4/25/18 3:16 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Mags1227
Posted by NervousNell
How does the government have the right to decide when to pull the plug on a person?
That is what scares me in this case.
That is disturbing.
This decision should ALWAYS ALWAYS be with the family.
If they want to keep their child alive, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
I may be wrong, but doesn't the UK have universal healthcare? as in the government is paying the bills not the family? in which case, they kind of have a say how tax money is being spent and for how long.
to your second question, is it really keeping the child "alive"? being hooked up to machines to help with all regular body functions is not living. the child is gone, even if they are letting machines keep the body alive. it is time for this fmaily to let go and start mourning the loss not cling to false hope (as previous poster stated)
Yes, but if they want to fly him to another country, it's no longer the UK's issue.
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
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| Posted 4/25/18 3:27 PM |
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MarathonKnitter
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Member since 2/07 17374 total posts
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EMBRACING CHANGE
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by LSP2005
While I feel terrible for the family, I think they are wrong like the Terri Schaivo and Jahia cases. These families are clinging to the hope their loved one will live, but what quality is their life? I think they need a lot of therapy to deal with their family member and that they are torturing a nearly dead body.
completely agree
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| Posted 4/25/18 3:38 PM |
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MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
I agree.
And what about someone with cancer or any other serious illness. What if its terminal. Can the gov't step in and say well its not going to cure you so we're going to stop treatment.
Is that how it works there? Is that ok?
And I believe he's been off life support since monday and is battling on his own.
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| Posted 4/25/18 3:51 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by NervousNell
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
I agree.
And what about someone with cancer or any other serious illness. What if its terminal. Can the gov't step in and say well its not going to cure you so we're going to stop treatment.
Is that how it works there? Is that ok?
And I believe he's been off life support since monday and is battling on his own.
That's how it works in the US. There's countless stories of insurance companies dropping people, refusing to pay for treatment, changing their medication to something cheaper but different, etc. Especially for expensive, long-term care.
We all allow corporations to decide if we live or die on a regular basis....
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| Posted 4/25/18 4:19 PM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
According to the timeline, he's remained at the same hospital the entire time. It makes me wonder why they are fighting so hard to keep him there? Why not allow them parents to transfer their son to a hospital in Italy? It's very suspicious to me. Maybe they are somehow responsible for this child getting sicker in their care or failure to correctly diagnose.
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| Posted 4/25/18 4:25 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
According to the timeline, he's remained at the same hospital the entire time. It makes me wonder why they are fighting so hard to keep him there? Why not allow them parents to transfer their son to a hospital in Italy? It's very suspicious to me. Maybe they are somehow responsible for this child getting sicker in their care or failure to correctly diagnose.
That's the part that I don't get. I understand the gov't wanted to end support, but if they want to take him to another country, then the UK is no longer footing the bill. There must be more to the story that what I've found....
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| Posted 4/25/18 4:28 PM |
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MarathonKnitter
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Member since 2/07 17374 total posts
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by NervousNell
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
I agree.
And what about someone with cancer or any other serious illness. What if its terminal. Can the gov't step in and say well its not going to cure you so we're going to stop treatment.
Is that how it works there? Is that ok?
And I believe he's been off life support since monday and is battling on his own.
That's how it works in the US. There's countless stories of insurance companies dropping people, refusing to pay for treatment, changing their medication to something cheaper but different, etc. Especially for expensive, long-term care.
We all allow corporations to decide if we live or die on a regular basis....
exactly. so many times, the decision of who lives and who dies is not in the hands of the family, but in the hands of faceless corporations who don't care.
reminds me of the lady in the midwest. the state (and i'm forgetting which state it was) had gone to an automated system for their medicaid/welfare system in hopes of making things cheaper and faster.
the woman missed an appt because she was in the hospital because of her cancer. she was dropped by the automated system. all the humans in the process (drs and state workers) were pushing to get her back on medicaid. the appeals process was going on.
she won her appeal... two days after she died.
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| Posted 4/25/18 4:31 PM |
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MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by NervousNell
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
I agree.
And what about someone with cancer or any other serious illness. What if its terminal. Can the gov't step in and say well its not going to cure you so we're going to stop treatment.
Is that how it works there? Is that ok?
And I believe he's been off life support since monday and is battling on his own.
That's how it works in the US. There's countless stories of insurance companies dropping people, refusing to pay for treatment, changing their medication to something cheaper but different, etc. Especially for expensive, long-term care.
We all allow corporations to decide if we live or die on a regular basis....
But if you had the option of another insurance company (Italy in this example) wouldnt you take that insurance? Why should the 1st insurance company say No you cant go on that new plan?
Thats what I feel is happening here.
Does that makes sense?
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| Posted 4/25/18 4:58 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3998 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by NervousNell
And in terms of the 2nd point- I agree with you but again that is the choice of the parent. None of us can say what we would do or how we would feel unless we were in that situation.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start letting the government make decisions about your body (or the body of your child).
What about abortion then?
Again- slippery slope.
I just don't like the idea of gov't having that much say in personal decisions.
I agree.
And what about someone with cancer or any other serious illness. What if its terminal. Can the gov't step in and say well its not going to cure you so we're going to stop treatment.
Is that how it works there? Is that ok?
And I believe he's been off life support since monday and is battling on his own.
That's how it works in the US. There's countless stories of insurance companies dropping people, refusing to pay for treatment, changing their medication to something cheaper but different, etc. Especially for expensive, long-term care.
We all allow corporations to decide if we live or die on a regular basis....
But if you had the option of another insurance company (Italy in this example) wouldnt you take that insurance? Why should the 1st insurance company say No you cant go on that new plan?
Thats what I feel is happening here.
Does that makes sense?
I agree. If someone else is willing to pick up the expense then the parents should have the option to move him to another facility.
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| Posted 4/25/18 5:27 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
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| Posted 4/25/18 7:00 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
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| Posted 4/25/18 7:36 PM |
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Sparrow
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 6826 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
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| Posted 4/25/18 8:03 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
The OP stated that a helicopter was sent to pick them up but they were blocked from leaving. So who paid for that? Someone must have
Message edited 4/25/2018 8:07:07 PM.
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| Posted 4/25/18 8:06 PM |
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Sparrow
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 6826 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
The OP stated that a helicopter was sent to pick them up but they were blocked from leaving. So who paid for that? Someone must have
Ahh, I did not see that part. Very strange case!
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| Posted 4/25/18 8:11 PM |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Although I realize these parents may be holding on to false hope, I find it absolutely horrifying that the government can make a decision like this over the life or death of someone's child. It is sickening and scary IMO.
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| Posted 4/26/18 12:06 AM |
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Disneygirl17
LIF Toddler
Member since 11/16 496 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
And would he survive the flight? I feel for the parents here, I do but I think the UK is trying to do what’s best for this baby. I have no idea how I’d feel if i was in this position.
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| Posted 4/26/18 7:46 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
This page:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html
gives a little more details. The government is not deciding on the child's fate (at least not directly). They are making judgments that side with what all of the hospital doctors have decided.
I still haven't found out why the UK won't let him travel to Italy....
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| Posted 4/26/18 8:31 AM |
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