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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
That's the point..Hamas does not care about its citizens and makes it look like it's all Israel...lest we not forget their agenda..I think mjandz just wants the acknowledgement of that agenda, which is pretty straightforward and holding any hope of peace back
Exactly
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Posted 7/21/14 10:35 PM  |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19453 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
1. Why are the people who live in these buildings allowing Hamas to store their weapons in their homes, schools, business, hospital?
2. If Israel has a phone number of building occupants it calls them before attempting to destroy the building.
3. They drop leaflets in Arabic so people can understand to get out.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:36 PM |
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MrsYank
Just curious who here actually lived in Israel? Who went back to fight in the army?
I have family and friends who live there, and fought there.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:37 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19453 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsYank
Just curious who here actually lived in Israel? Who went back to fight in the army?
I have family and friends who live there, and fought there.
As do I.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:39 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
I'm sorry if I offended anyone who was trying to be respectful. This is a very heated issue that is obviously close to the hearts of many of us. I have personally lost friends and family to the ongoing conflict in Israel. But it's clear that no minds will be changed here. I hope that those who do not know much will do their research and find independent, neutral sources. I truly think the bbc article I posted a few pages back is a good source. I pray for peace and for safety for all the innocent people in the region, and for my brothers and sisters who are risking their lives in the IDF to defend our state. Obviously my bias is clear, bit I am also educated on the issue and know the facts. The sad truth is, I fear we will not see peace in our lifetime.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:40 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
Wow. Just wow.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:40 PM |
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
I'm sorry if I offended anyone who was trying to be respectful. This is a very heated issue that is obviously close to the hearts of many of us. I have personally lost friends and family to the ongoing conflict in Israel. But it's clear that no minds will be changed here. I hope that those who do not know much will do their research and find independent, neutral sources. I truly think the bbc article I posted a few pages back is a good source. I pray for peace and for safety for all the innocent people in the region, and for my brothers and sisters who are risking their lives in the IDF to defend our state. Obviously my bias is clear, bit I am also educated on the issue and know the facts. The sad truth is, I fear we will not see peace in our lifetime.
well done.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:44 PM |
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hmm
Sweet
Member since 1/14 7983 total posts
Name:
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Re: Still support Israel?
I just read that 25 Israeli's soldiers have died as if today, all young men..
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:45 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:46 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by hmm
I just read that 25 Israeli's soldiers have died as if today, all young men..
Baruch Dayan ha'emet. May their memories be a blessing.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:49 PM |
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RainaK
LIF Adult
Member since 4/14 904 total posts
Name:
R
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by tara73
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:49 PM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by tara73
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
Very well said
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:50 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by BriBri2u
Posted by tara73
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
Very well said
I agree!
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:52 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by RainaK
Posted by tara73
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:52 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by evnme
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by MandJZ
I'm seriously asking. Because nobody has responded.
To those that are pro-Palestinian - how can you defend a group (Hamas) who has it written explicitly in their charter that their only goal is to kill Jews and destroy Israel? And that this is the only acceptable end result?
I think some of the confusion lies in the fact that that was the elected government but also a terrorist organization
Not all Palestinians support Hamas. But for others I think that they feel Hamas is all they have as far as a resistance force. Palestine has no support and no military defense...against a country that receives billions of dollars in aide
Hamas has taken the gazans hostage and uses people as human shields and are living in the lap of luxury while the people live in poverty. They receive so much money from other counties and squander it away on themselves and rockets. They wasted millions of $ on building tunnels to carry out terrorism.Hamas uses schools, hospitals, homes and mosques to hide and shoot bombs and rockets. Israel pulled out of Gaza 7 years ago and left greenhouses and industry and Hamas leadership destroyed it all. This land could have been a seaside paradise.
And inspite of what is happening, Israel is still supplying Gaza with supplies and aid.
Hamas broke 3 ceasefires this week and wouldn't accept blood donations from Israel.
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
Are you serious here? ISRAEL has a warning system for tis citizens. It is the responsibility of HAMAS to have one for ITS citizens. Israel should give Hamas an app that tells them when they are being targeted? For real?
I did not say that Israel had to give Hamas anything...please read more carefully. My point was that Israel gives them a warning in the form of a BOMB, and gives the less that 3 minutes to evacuate their homes before a larger bomb destroys their whole world! But I did not mention that Gazans have no where to go. Egypt blocks them from one side and Israel from the other. They are locked in hell as far as I'm concerned. And these people are not cockroaches, they are human beings, and it's not fair.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:54 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:58 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
Wow. Just wow.
Why? Tell me why you know I'm wrong. You know for sure they don't cause fear and terrorize a group of people? If so, please let me know
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:58 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jenny614
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
1. Why are the people who live in these buildings allowing Hamas to store their weapons in their homes, schools, business, hospital?
2. If Israel has a phone number of building occupants it calls them before attempting to destroy the building.
3. They drop leaflets in Arabic so people can understand to get out.
Ok you may be right, but go where. Where are these people supposed to go? Gather their favorite pictures a d children and move to another building to wait for the next call?
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:01 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
I meant that there were people living here when America was colonized. This country was colonized by England and there were already people living here.
But I'm no longer engaging in debate on this thread. I'm done arguing.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:01 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Egypt closed the Rafah crossing bc Hamas was smuggling fuel, weapons and money out of Egypt and murdering Egyptians (Hamas is part of the Muslim brotherhood).
Hamas keeps their people hostage bc of their own actions.
Hamas has also told gazans to ignore warnings to leave from Israel and to stay in their homes and go on the roof and be a human shield.
Israel also sends texts and phone calls as warnings.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:03 PM |
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
I'm sorry if I offended anyone who was trying to be respectful. This is a very heated issue that is obviously close to the hearts of many of us. I have personally lost friends and family to the ongoing conflict in Israel. But it's clear that no minds will be changed here. I hope that those who do not know much will do their research and find independent, neutral sources. I truly think the bbc article I posted a few pages back is a good source. I pray for peace and for safety for all the innocent people in the region, and for my brothers and sisters who are risking their lives in the IDF to defend our state. Obviously my bias is clear, bit I am also educated on the issue and know the facts. The sad truth is, I fear we will not see peace in our lifetime.
I have learned a lot from you tonite and bookmarked every link you and evnme posted!
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:03 PM |
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Samlove
Member since 5/05 4729 total posts
Name:
Shari
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Re: Still support Israel?
I will always support Israel!!
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:03 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by tara73
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
I'm not a fan of generalizations. I think you can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. Saying all Palestinians are bad people or undeserving etc is the same as saying all Germans were bad during the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people still deserve empathy. They suffer under Hamas as well. I believe that Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization who oppresses it's own people. They're told over and over what their beliefs should be, who is wrong, who is right... I truly believe that given a choice that most Palestinians and most Israelis would not choose the constant fear they live in, they'd probably choose to find a peaceful way to live. However, Hamas has taken that choice from BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Is what needs to happen for there to be peace that Hamas needs to be somehow disbanded or ousted or something? Do I think that the "something" that is happening right now is the best way? I don't know.
In 50 years, 100 years, I'm sure that historians will look back and talk about how it was so obvious what would work etc but I think that every day life, the every day reality, for both Israelis and Palestinians is flipping scary. The citizens of both countries do deserve empathy. BOTH sides truly believe they are doing what's "right"
but....
I honestly don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" in this whole thing. This isn't as black and white as any one would like to believe. But I really dislike that the minute you say "maybe Israel isn't going about this the right way" you're smacked with accusations of being an anti semite.
I think you are absolutely right.
I don't regret anything I said on this thread. And I stand with Israel and always will. But I also let my emotions carry me through this. I am stepping back from arguing. Thank you for this well thought out post. It's a necessary one.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:03 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
. Actually, it wasn't anyone's land. 120 plus years agoit was desolate and sparsely populated while under British control. European Jews were better organized and did a great deal to modernize and develop the area. They ended up with it.
But they had to bring bulldozers over to demolish homes to build their own?? Not so modern if you ask me.
Anyone heard of Rachel Corrie?
You're ignoring posts with information and questions that you don't want to respond to.
I'm not ignoring anything, there's just a lot of posts and I can't read and keep up with them. Also, please stop being aggressive with me, I really don't appreciate it.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:04 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
Wow. Just wow.
Why? Tell me why you know I'm wrong. You know for sure they don't cause fear and terrorize a group of people? If so, please let me know
IDF isn't targeting civilians. Idf does what it can and has aborted operations to do what they could to avoid hitting civilians. Idf is targeting Hamas infrastructure- including terror tunnels into Israel- there is a network of more than 100 tunnels. 1 leads into the dining room of a kibbutz.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:06 PM |
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