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Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by mrsyoungmommy
Posted by rojerono
Posted by JennP
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up ****'s creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
I had said before that I do agree that the amount of loopholes and tax breaks that only the wealthiest are eligible for is crazy pants. We are on the same page.
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
This. DH and I were just talking about how at 26 and 27, we bought our first house. Because we worked our asses off. The sense of entitlement with Americans disgusts me.
With all due respect, I think you are off the mark with this comment.
That's great that you did that - no sarcasm there, it really is great! I was able to do the same. However, do you know how many people did exactly what you and I did and are now in dire straits?
This is a uniquely sh!tty job market and plenty of people who did all the right things are having a hard time.
I agree that some people take advantage but I'm a teacher in a low income area and I have never met a soul who wants the government to buy them a house.
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Posted 12/30/12 9:11 AM  |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
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| Posted 12/30/12 10:45 AM |
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JennP
Posted by mrsyoungmommy
Posted by rojerono
Posted by JennP
I agree with a lot of the other things you said but I wanted to respond to the above.
It's not about punishing those who have money. I believe we need the income tax system to stay progressive (tax rate increases as income rises) because most of our taxes already are "regressive" taxes - tax rate DECREASES as income RISES.
Look at real estate taxes and sales taxes. Income is not a factor, which means it's automatically regressive.
I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that I want to live in a society that does more to protect the poor than the wealthy.
10% of a $20,000 salary hurts SO much more than 39% of a billionaire's next million. As a society I don't know why we are so hesitant to go there, so to speak.
Maybe it's an ideological thing with me, but that is why while I admit I'm disappointed with both sides I am truly disgusted with the Republicans. I am sick of them holding entitlement programs and UE hostage for the interests of the wealthy. These programs are feeding people who would otherwise be up ****'s creek but heaven forbid we raise the taxes on millionaires.
They want economic stimulation? People SPEND their entitlement benefits. It goes right back out there. And they want to cut them.
I had said before that I do agree that the amount of loopholes and tax breaks that only the wealthiest are eligible for is crazy pants. We are on the same page.
I guess for me.. I want to live in a society that doesn't aim to protect the poor (although that IS important), so much as it aims to give equal opportunities to EVERY PERSON to obtain their goals through education, hard work and determination.
This. DH and I were just talking about how at 26 and 27, we bought our first house. Because we worked our asses off. The sense of entitlement with Americans disgusts me.
With all due respect, I think you are off the mark with this comment.
That's great that you did that - no sarcasm there, it really is great! I was able to do the same. However, do you know how many people did exactly what you and I did and are now in dire straits?
This is a uniquely sh!tty job market and plenty of people who did all the right things are having a hard time.
I agree that some people take advantage but I'm a teacher in a low income area and I have never met a soul who wants the government to buy them a house.
I hate when people use that "I worked hard so I deserve a house" comment.
IMO, DH works harder then most people I know, yet, we have had months where it's very hard to make ends meet.
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| Posted 12/30/12 10:48 AM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
It's not that eople can't make it on 300k, but higher earners tend to live in more expensive areas with higher school taxes. In high priced neighborhoods,300k is certainly not wealthy.
Message edited 12/30/2012 11:42:35 AM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 11:36 AM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by ap123
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
It's not the people can't make it on 300k, but higher earners tend to live in more expensive areas with higher school taxes. In high priced neighborhoods,300k is certainly not wealthy.
Well, it's a personal choice people make. My Parents did considerably well and rather have more money in their pocket and lived in a modest neighborhood with low taxes. I know people have personal desires but whatever they choose to do with their money shouldn't affect in how much they pay towards taxes. So just because they live in a more expensive neighborhood doesn't mean they should pay less taxes, period. That's absurd. That's saying because I live in South Farmingdale (Town of Oyster Bay) and my taxes are low I have to pay more when I know someone who lives in Jericho who makes more money than I should pay less in taxes because their overall cost of living is high. BS! That's like saying bail out people who put too little money down on their house because now they can't afford it. People have choices and people need to decide what to do with their money. If they want better schools, they need to pay. No one should pay more taxes because they decided to be a little smarter and save by living in cheaper taxed townships....
Message edited 12/30/2012 11:45:09 AM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 11:42 AM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ap123
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
It's not the people can't make it on 300k, but higher earners tend to live in more expensive areas with higher school taxes. In high priced neighborhoods,300k is certainly not wealthy.
Well, it's a personal choice people make. My Parents did considerably well and rather have more money in their pocket and lived in a modest neighborhood with low taxes. I know people have personal desires but whatever they choose to do with their money shouldn't affect in how much they pay towards taxes. So just because they live in a more expensive neighborhood doesn't mean they should pay less taxes, period. That's absurd. That's saying because I live in South Farmingdale (Town of Oyster Bay) and my taxes are low I have to pay more when I know someone who lives in Jericho who makes more money than I should pay less in taxes because their overall cost of living is high. BS! That's like saying bail out people who put too little money down on their house because now they can't afford it. People have choices and people need to decide what to do with their money. If they want better schools, they need to pay. No one should pay more taxes because they decided to be a little smarter and save by living in cheaper taxed townships....
Actually I agree with what your saying. People should live where they can afford and where they are happy. But when people say 300k is wealthy, I can't understand that. Yeah, might make you rich in some towns, but more likely than not, your not going to pick that town if your making more than the average resident. I'm just sick of ppl saying that taxes should be higher based on some view of wealth which is really not much money on LI. Lots of people would change their tune if the number was changed to 150k because it would impact them.
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| Posted 12/30/12 12:00 PM |
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BeachGal
LIF Adult
Member since 2/10 2827 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
Everyone's opinion is different.
Paying more taxes at $250k will hurt families who live within their means and deserve to be comfortable.
Message edited 12/30/2012 4:52:03 PM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 2:36 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by BeachGal
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Kidsaplenty
[
It should incease to 500k a year as wealthy. Sorry, but making even 300k a year on LI is extrmely well off in mnay people's opinion.
I am not saying that they are not well off, however, at that level they are not wealthy and thus are not likely to be getting the tax breaks that millionaires receive. People at around that level who see a lot of their money from bonuses etc. are essentially paying about 40% and sometimes more depending on state and local taxes and receive no breaks - that, to me, looks like their fair share and then some.
I agree, Increase to $500k.
Sorry but this is BS. Average families on LI make about 100K-150K per year. If people can't make it on 300K with a family of five, then something is wrong. I think people over 250K per year should be taxed. This is considerably wealthy IMHO. DH and I make a little under that and we don't piss our money away and save what we can. But this is a whole other topic...
 what I am saying and what I continue to say has nothing to do with that. Simply put, at that income level you are not the mega wealthy that, by strategic tax planning, can avoid paying a large amount of taxes. At that income level you are not making most of your money off of capital gains etc. All I am saying is that typically,, the average family making 300k is paying about 40% - which is definitely their fair share. So the argument about how the wealthy aren't paying their share of taxes is not applicable to this subset of people.
I never once discussed what someone can or cannot afford on that salary as that is irrelevant except to say that cost of living in a particular area definitely defines what wealthy means. And, no, I do not think 300k is wealthy. Again, I never said they are struggling but I would not say that they are living extravagantly here in the tristate area - especially to the extent they have children.
To repeat, my point is that at that income level you are nether able to take any of the deductions given to those in lower tax brackets (I.e. child credits, student loan interest deductions etc.) nor do you benefit from the tax loopholes that the millionaires avail themselves of. So, if anything, I believe that group is already being taxed significantly.
Eta: who said anything about not being able to make it on that salary? We are talking about proportionate share of taxes.
Message edited 12/30/2012 3:52:44 PM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 3:51 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
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| Posted 12/30/12 4:59 PM |
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Jbon630
LIF Adult
Member since 12/11 1340 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:00 PM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
 Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:10 PM |
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maymama
my little loves
Member since 8/08 18453 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
so if you went to college, are trying to save for your children's future and you own a house - you are rich? that is insane. in this day and age, the VAST majority go to college, dream to own a home and send their kids to college. that certainly doesnt make everyone rich.
Message edited 12/30/2012 5:21:39 PM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:20 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by jacquig
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
A $500K salary puts you in the top 1% for the nation. This was an interesting compilation of articles about wealth and percentages. LINK According to the NY Times, a $300,000 salary in Nassau County NY puts you in the top 5% of all residents. It puts you in the top 2% of the nation.http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html
Once you get used to living at a certain level it becomes difficult to live on less. I get that you might feel like you are middle class when you have a salary like that because you surround yourselves with people who are like you, and if some of them make more than you - you (collectively) feel poor in comparison. So yes, you are not as wealthy as a millionaire, but comparatively speaking to the rest of the nation you are living extremely well but you just don't see it.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:21 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by jacquig
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
I agree with your general premise, however, those things that are being mentioned are synonymous with wealth. If one cannot afford the big house, private schools etc. comfortably, and take nice vacations and still save then you may be well off but you are not wealthy. And by wealthy I am going with Chris Rocks definition of wealth. To me that may be upper middle class but certainly not wealthy. Obviously, it is all subjective, to someone making 30k, 100k is rich.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:22 PM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
I agree...if you're making $300,000 in this economy in NY -you're very well off in my book. No sympathy from me that's for sure.
If DH and I made even $200,000 I'd consider us well off. That amount would get me into a modest home without having to work our assess off to pay the mortgage.
We both came from working class families, no one paid a dime for what we have, we do it all on our own and it is a struggle!
There is a difference when you can't afford your Starbucks for the month versus dipping into your little savings to cover your mortgage. At $300,000 I don't think you have a right to complain - if you can't make it inNYC with. That income you're doing something wrong.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:39 PM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
Name:
Melody
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by BriBri2u
I agree...if you're making $300,000 in this economy in NY -you're very well off in my book. No sympathy from me that's for sure.
If DH and I made even $200,000 I'd consider us well off. That amount would get me into a modest home without having to work our assess off to pay the mortgage.
We both came from working class families, no one paid a dime for what we have, we do it all on our own and it is a struggle!
There is a difference when you can't afford your Starbucks for the month versus dipping into your little savings to cover your mortgage. At $300,000 I don't think you have a right to complain - if you can't make it inNYC with. That income you're doing something wrong.
I agree 100%...it's all about the choices we make. We made some not so smart decisions and are paying for them...but we know that we have choices ahead that can help us live better with what we have. Some people don't have those choices. Some people live with the bare minimum and have nowhere to cut from when "life happens" and you get blindsided with some unforseen bill or situation. THAT is poverty. I don't consider my family to be in poverty...we just live paycheck to paycheck due to circumstances and the poor decision to mix business and friendship when we bought this home. However, I can choose to work more, or we can move out and go somewhere cheaper. We do have options. I do think that there is a difference between absolute poverty and "struggling to make ends meet" for the lifestyle you want to have.
That being said though it is still very true that the economy and inflation have priced people out of their hometown neighborhoods and killed the american dream of home ownership for many people.
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| Posted 12/30/12 5:56 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
I agree with your general premise, however, those things that are being mentioned are synonymous with wealth. If one cannot afford the big house, private schools etc. comfortably, and take nice vacations and still save then you may be well off but you are not wealthy. And by wealthy I am going with Chris Rocks definition of wealth. To me that may be upper middle class but certainly not wealthy. Obviously, it is all subjective, to someone making 30k, 100k is rich.
What is the Chris Rock definition of wealth?
Honestly through out history very very few people were extremely wealthy. I think people see celebrities and want what they have, and to think that is the only definition of wealth is so out of touch with reality. You can pull down 300k but if you don't live below your means and save some of it you won't feel wealthy. As other people posted, it is all about choices. You can choose a big home in a nice area, good schools, expensive cars, lavish vacations etc. It is all about priorities and choices. It does not mean you are entitled to your own yacht or helicopter.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:02 PM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jugglemom
I agree with your general premise, however, those things that are being mentioned are synonymous with wealth. If one cannot afford the big house, private schools etc. comfortably, and take nice vacations and still save then you may be well off but you are not wealthy. And by wealthy I am going with Chris Rocks definition of wealth. To me that may be upper middle class but certainly not wealthy. Obviously, it is all subjective, to someone making 30k, 100k is rich.
What is the Chris Rock definition of wealth?
Honestly through out history very very few people were extremely wealthy. I think people see celebrities and want what they have, and to think that is the only definition of wealth is so out of touch with reality. You can pull down 300k but if you don't live below your means and save some of it you won't feel wealthy. As other people posted, it is all about choices. You can choose a big home in a nice area, good schools, expensive cars, lavish vacations etc. It is all about priorities and choices. It does not mean you are entitled to your own yacht or helicopter.
Thank you!!!! I know people that probably are in that range of income and appear to be rich. Nice cars, houses, labels. When you think about how much they spend, you wonder. This is the problem with society today. People want to be like celebrities and wealthy people. Especially on Long Island. Years ago, people had tiny houses, bigger families and lived very simply. Granted, cost of living was different but people made it. My dad is 72. He tells me what his salary was and how much the first house cost and its like how the hell did you do it? They did it while mom stayed home and raised us, kept cars for a long time and only purchased the basics. The way things are today with the price of everything going up, I have a feeling people are slowly going to revert back to that lifestyle.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:34 PM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:35 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
I swear people want to have an argument about something that no one is arguing about.
No one is saying that 300k is not well off
We are discussing tax rates. Generally, a family who earns 300k is drawing a salary so they are taxed at the marginal tax rate. Most wealthy people live off of investments versus a salary and thus most of their income is not taxed at the marginal tax rate but rather as a capital gain. Capital gains are taxed at much lower rate and that is why people say that the wealthy do not pay their fair share.
What I am saying is in line with that. I am saying that those in the 300k tax bracket because they are not "wealthy" as they do not live off of their investments, already pay their share and are not and should not be the targets.
I swear this conversation is dizzying and is irrelevant to the point at hand.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:51 PM |
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Onemoretime
LIF Adult
Member since 9/12 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jugglemom
I agree with your general premise, however, those things that are being mentioned are synonymous with wealth. If one cannot afford the big house, private schools etc. comfortably, and take nice vacations and still save then you may be well off but you are not wealthy. And by wealthy I am going with Chris Rocks definition of wealth. To me that may be upper middle class but certainly not wealthy. Obviously, it is all subjective, to someone making 30k, 100k is rich.
What is the Chris Rock definition of wealth?
Honestly through out history very very few people were extremely wealthy. I think people see celebrities and want what they have, and to think that is the only definition of wealth is so out of touch with reality. You can pull down 300k but if you don't live below your means and save some of it you won't feel wealthy. As other people posted, it is all about choices. You can choose a big home in a nice area, good schools, expensive cars, lavish vacations etc. It is all about priorities and choices. It does not mean you are entitled to your own yacht or helicopter.
Thank you!!!! I know people that probably are in that range of income and appear to be rich. Nice cars, houses, labels. When you think about how much they spend, you wonder. This is the problem with society today. People want to be like celebrities and wealthy people. Especially on Long Island. Years ago, people had tiny houses, bigger families and lived very simply. Granted, cost of living was different but people made it. My dad is 72. He tells me what his salary was and how much the first house cost and its like how the hell did you do it? They did it while mom stayed home and raised us, kept cars for a long time and only purchased the basics. The way things are today with the price of everything going up, I have a feeling people are slowly going to revert back to that lifestyle.
I don't think we can ever go back to that lifestyle. My house is 60 years old and it's been the same size (no extension). The price and taxes have ballooned. There are SO many dual income families w free ( family members) babysitting. Vacations, cars, dinners, houses are obscenely priced. But people like the above have enough $$ for all these things. I hear people complaining about $$ but when I look around, not many people seem to have these financial issues. It's such a weird time, I feel like the people I know are very well off, or just scraping by. No in between!
Message edited 12/30/2012 6:53:11 PM.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:52 PM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by jacquig
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
I agree with your general premise, however, those things that are being mentioned are synonymous with wealth. If one cannot afford the big house, private schools etc. comfortably, and take nice vacations and still save then you may be well off but you are not wealthy. And by wealthy I am going with Chris Rocks definition of wealth. To me that may be upper middle class but certainly not wealthy. Obviously, it is all subjective, to someone making 30k, 100k is rich.
You're right everything is subjective but realistically speaking for a majority of Americans the Chris Rock definition of wealthy will never exist. Even for some of those hedge fund guys and CEOs. Just because they are wealthy doesn't mean they can afford every single luxury out there or the desire to keep up with celebrities.
I frequent another popular board based in NYC and these topics come up all the time. You will be amazed at how many people say they are struggling with a $400K income. The majority of them are struggling because they have fancy apartments, kids in private school and the need to keep up with the Joneses. To me that is a rich person problem.
That is not the typical American who struggles. So IMO yes $300K is wealthy. You can choose a smaller apartment that will give you more $$ to save, a less pricey private school and a more affordable vacation. Those things are certainly attainable on that salary. I just think the mentality now is the more you make the more you spend.
If you can't figure out how to live within your means on a $300K salary then you have a problem.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:53 PM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by jacquig
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
Do you really think 300k gets you a big house, housekeeper and fancy car if you are living close to NYC in one of the better school districts? Not when you are
maxing out your 401k, saving for retirement, living debt free just in case some loses a job and saving for you kids college to secure their future.
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| Posted 12/30/12 6:54 PM |
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Onemoretime
LIF Adult
Member since 9/12 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by Jugglemom
I swear people want to have an argument about something that no one is arguing about.
No one is saying that 300k is not well off
We are discussing tax rates. Generally, a family who earns 300k is drawing a salary so they are taxed at the marginal tax rate. Most wealthy people live off of investments versus a salary and thus most of their income is not taxed at the marginal tax rate but rather as a capital gain. Capital gains are taxed at much lower rate and that is why people say that the wealthy do not pay their fair share.
What I am saying is in line with that. I am saying that those in the 300k tax bracket because they are not "wealthy" as they do not live off of their investments, already pay their share and are not and should not be the targets.
I swear this conversation is dizzying and is irrelevant to the point at hand.
I agree. 300k is well off, but it is not wealthy. Not in this area. I feel like this income figure of 250k is clearly targeting us in the NE and the west coast. 250k for people in mid career is common and the higher tax rates will hurt that population. The cost of housing and having a family is tremendous in this area, and that is not being considered. Wealthy people will remain not paying there fair share bc of the cap gains tax rates and other loop holes. Wealthy will continue to be able to Keep their money within their families. The 250+ families will be losing out, and I have a feeling this figure is going to drop steadily over the next few years until MOST of us have to pay up.
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| Posted 12/30/12 7:01 PM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Fiscal Cliff.. is anyone worried about this?
Posted by ap123
Posted by jacquig
Posted by JenniferEver
$300K is wealthy. Wherever you choose to live is your choice. Wealth is all about choices. If you make the $150K a year everyone is saying is average, you can choose to live in a less expensive town in an apartment and live a very comfortable life, or you can be house poor in a 4 bedroom colonial on the right side of the tracks. Saying that the fact that you have student loan debt, college savings and a mortgage makes you not wealthy is ridiculous. It just means you have rich people problems. Having to give up a latte to make the payment on your Mercedes is not the same as struggling to make a $200 repair to your 1995 Oldsmobile no matter how you slice it.
Sorry $300K is wealthy even in NY. It may not get you as far as it does in the mid-West but it's definitely wealthy. Why, how and where you choose to spend your money is up to you. You don't need the big house, housekeeper, fancy car, private schools, etc. Those are choices.
Do you really think 300k gets you a big house, housekeeper and fancy car if you are living close to NYC in one of the better school districts? Not when you are
maxing out your 401k, saving for retirement, living debt free just in case some loses a job and saving for you kids college to secure their future.
You may not be able to buy a mansion but I'm pretty sure you can buy a decent size house in the NYC area with that income while saving and doing all the other things you just mentioned.
If you choose to save most of your $$ (which I think is wise) then of course you will have to slash some of your wants. I'm not saying that $300K makes you uber rich but it is a nice healthy salary that can afford you a lot of the finer things in life.
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| Posted 12/30/12 7:09 PM |
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