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smdl
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Spinoff on renting part of your house
By illegal, do you mean the owner does not pay taxes for his rental?
I am a home owner but used to be a renter.
AND YES... in illegal apartments. I was quiet, never trashed anything, etc...
Are people that naive on LI that they don't know that there are NOT ENOUGH legal apartments on LI to meet the demand of the housing?
We are not just talking the house with 5+ families in them.
I am talking young adults who just left their parent's house, young single professionals or young couples that cannot afford a house on LI.
Where should those people go?
I am totally against illegal apartments with kids of multiple families living in one house.... but I am very aware that if there were not legal or illegal apartments on LI in people's house.... a lot of our friends, family members, co-workers could not live here.
That's just a fact!!!!
So are we mad that the owners does not pay extra taxes (1/ it's extra income that is not declared 2/ their tenant uses city amenities that they don't pay for) or the fact that someone split their house with someone else?
I know people here who have tenants. And that's the only way they can afford their house too. Should we tell them to go OOS or go back to an apartment?
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Posted 2/25/08 8:49 AM  |
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sunnyplus3
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
I live in what is considered a lower income area, many of my neighbors(not close by but in my neighborhood) have apartments-mostly illegal in their homes. Lots of my neighbors have extended family living in those apartments. There aren't any houses I can think of that have too many cars without enough parking or a million extra kids. In fact some of the houses are nicer & have been recently renovated probably because the homeowners have a little extra cash compared to people without rentals.
I'm fine with it, if I felt that it was an abusive situation that was affecting my quality of life, I might say something to them or report them.
My cousin put an apartment in her basement in her house in centereach just as she was going through a divorce. Without that income she would not be able to stay in her house with her kids. Her driveway is long, her yard is huge & she rents to singles or couples without children because its small.
I know there are areas where driveway space is limited, parking on the street is not allowed & houses are so close together & taxes are already insane. I can see why people living in those communities would be irked if all their neighbors had tenants, but then again those houses are 500K, maybe those people should buy a home in a more moderately priced area if they can't swing the mortgage.
There is no black & white answer.
Its very hard for *most* young people to get by on LI & there is not enough affordable rental units to go around.
I'm sure young people don't dream of renting someone's basement when they grow up, but everyone has to start somewhere. While this issue is real, I think there are other things on LI that need to be addressed immediately.
Like the cost of educating children of people that pay NO TAX(other than sales tax) at all.
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| Posted 2/25/08 9:19 AM |
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Kara
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
Are people that naive on LI that they don't know that there are NOT ENOUGH legal apartments on LI to meet the demand of the housing?
Can you please show me a real statistic for this? I'm not saying it's bogus at all. I'd just like to see where this information comes from. The fact that housing may be scarce (though I see tons of legal apartments listed all the time all over LI) doesn't mean that it's a necessaity to break the law. It's not as if legal alternatives are not available. The fact that AFFORDABLE housing may not be available isn't helped by having illegal apartments either. It drives up taxes for the rest of us, drives up taxes on legal rental properties, and only makes legal housing MORE expensive. (And honestly, I had extremely inexpensive rent and never rented an illegal apartment...)
Many currently illegal apartments (meaning lacking proper permits and/or zoning) could be successfully converted into legal apartments. People don't want to pay the extra taxes, though, or deal with the process. I realize that not all of these apartments would be approved, but a lot would... and if housing is such a huge issue, then people should be pressuring local governments to allow more legal apartments in private homes.
Honestly, last time I checked, the law applies to everyone and doesn't exempt the chosen few who feel they don't have to operate within its bounds - for any reason. If there is such a huge housing issue, then people need to try to change local laws to allow more legal apartments, not take it upon themselves to break the law. And let's face it, the vast majority of people who own illegal apartments aren't doing it to help out with any shortage of affordable housing -- they are using it as a source of income.
I DO feel that illegal apartments unfairly punish those of us who are obeying the laws. There are so many illegal apartments on LI that it's really difficult to argue that there is no tax implication on the rest of us who pay property taxes. (The New York Times reported that in 1989, there were approximately 90,000 illegal apartments on Long Island... While I don't have a current statistic, I can't imagine the number is tremendously lower today.)
I also don't buy that people could not afford to live in a legal apartment. I have friends making anywhere from 30,000 a year to over a quarter million dollars a year -- and all live in legal apartments. When I was renting and saving for a house not that long ago, we were looking in a very low price range. We saw tons of legal apartments in our price range. So maybe we couldn't get the fanciest place on earth, but guess what -- we couldn't afford it legally. We went with what we could afford.
This isn't a snobbery issue for me. I don't care if people want to have a LEGAL apartment in their house, so long as they are respectful as any neighbor should be. I DO care that people think they are above operating within the bounds of the law to avoid paying more in property taxes. There may be income tax issues, too, if people don't report the income. However, there are tons of people who don't report cash income from many sources, so I don't think it's fair to pin that problem only on those with illegal apartments. That said, there are other ways people avoid taxes, too, which I think are unfair -- not getting proper building permits for improvements, etc... That's not right either.
I don't like paying a boatload in taxes any more than the next person, but I do pay the taxes I legally should be.
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| Posted 2/25/08 9:25 AM |
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JRG71
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
It seems to be more of an issue of $$
Illegal apartments are just more affordable than an apartment complex - I really don't think it has anything to do with a shortage of housing. It's there - Just not affordable to all.
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| Posted 2/25/08 9:52 AM |
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BlueDiamonds
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
I currently rent in a legal 2 family home. My rent is very affordable but I realize that this is not always the case. Apartment complexes tend to be very expensive and they raise the rent every year. My landlord is very flexible, does not raise the rent and I only have to give 2 months notice to leave. This is perfect for me b/c it allows me to save for a house and move when I find one. Deals like this are very hard to come by. So for those who do not want to live in a complex, there very much is a shortage of legal housing.
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| Posted 2/25/08 10:18 AM |
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MegZee
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
I have no problems with people haveing apartments in their houses.
I have a problem with illegal apartments. If you are getting income from renting yoru house, you should be paying the appropriate taxes.
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| Posted 2/25/08 10:23 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Since there are "illegal" apartment there are no stats.
How many apartment complexes do we all know? There are not that many really if you compare to the number of people renting? I even visited illegal apartments from realtors.
I know SO many people who rent in houses. There is no way there are enough apartment complexes to fit everyone.
Yes, most illegal apartments are in houses.
But I think there are 2 issues.
1/ People want renters to pay taxes for the use of school, library, etc.. But they don't owe a property so how could they pay based on property taxes. Landlords need to pay for the renters.
2/ People don't want a bunch of cars, kids running around, a bunch of turnover of renters.
I don't think most people will be satisfied with renters just paying taxes. There are mixed feeling on renters in houses in general.
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| Posted 2/25/08 11:59 AM |
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Beth
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Beth
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by BlueDiamonds
I currently rent in a legal 2 family home. My rent is very affordable but I realize that this is not always the case. Apartment complexes tend to be very expensive and they raise the rent every year. My landlord is very flexible, does not raise the rent and I only have to give 2 months notice to leave. This is perfect for me b/c it allows me to save for a house and move when I find one. Deals like this are very hard to come by. So for those who do not want to live in a complex, there very much is a shortage of legal housing.
I rent in a legal 3 family in Bayside- I pay less for a 3 bed/2 bath with a driveway then I was paying for a 1 bedroom in a large building
my landlords rocks and is allowing to me give her short notice when we want to leave since we are also getting ready to buy a home
ETA- since I live in NYC - I pay my share of taxes- they take it right out of my pay check every week - plus the taxes on legal 3 familes are triple then a single family (there was one for sale on the block and they had a flyer with all the info)
Message edited 2/25/2008 12:05:19 PM.
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| Posted 2/25/08 12:03 PM |
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Kara
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
Since there are "illegal" apartment there are no stats.
How many apartment complexes do we all know? There are not that many really if you compare to the number of people renting? I even visited illegal apartments from realtors.
I know SO many people who rent in houses. There is no way there are enough apartment complexes to fit everyone.
Yes, most illegal apartments are in houses.
But I think there are 2 issues.
1/ People want renters to pay taxes for the use of school, library, etc.. But they don't owe a property so how could they pay based on property taxes. Landlords need to pay for the renters.
2/ People don't want a bunch of cars, kids running around, a bunch of turnover of renters.
I don't think most people will be satisfied with renters just paying taxes. There are mixed feeling on renters in houses in general.
There is no definite number b/c the apartments are illegal, but do some Googling and you'll find MANY estimates of the number of illegal apartments in different towns and LI as a whole. There are statistics, but they are obviously somewhat limited.
One need not rent in an apartment building in order to legally rent an apartment. We lived in a LEGAL two-family house for some time. Legal apartments in homes do exist.
Clearly the renters aren't paying taxes directly, BUT if they are renting a legal apartment, the property owner is paying the appropriate taxes for a multi-family dwelling, and therefore contributing toward the taxes for individuals living on his property -- just as owners of apartment buildings do.
ETA -- If the apartment is illegal, then the owner is paying only the appropriate taxes for a single-family dwelling... so, no, the appropriate taxes are not being collected. And yes, I have a huge problem with that.
While most illegal apartments are in private homes, some apartment buildings are also illegal in some ways... but those are few and far between.
Message edited 2/25/2008 12:13:02 PM.
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| Posted 2/25/08 12:08 PM |
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GoldenRod
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Besides all of the tax issues, and the breaking the law issues, keep in mind that legal apartments must meet certain safety codes. Many illegal apartments are not safe. If the apartment is in the basement, the windows must be egress windows, so people can escape during a fire. Legal apartments guarantee a certain level of safety and proper living quarters.
Plus, like well described above, illegal is illegal, and people who are following the law get penalized by people who break the law... 
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| Posted 2/25/08 12:34 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by GoldenRod
Besides all of the tax issues, and the breaking the law issues, keep in mind that legal apartments must meet certain safety codes. Many illegal apartments are not safe. If the apartment is in the basement, the windows must be egress windows, so people can escape during a fire. Legal apartments guarantee a certain level of safety and proper living quarters.
Plus, like well described above, illegal is illegal, and people who are following the law get penalized by people who break the law...
My point is there is a real housing issue on LI for the need of apartments no just $$$$
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| Posted 2/25/08 12:37 PM |
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Kara
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
Posted by GoldenRod
Besides all of the tax issues, and the breaking the law issues, keep in mind that legal apartments must meet certain safety codes. Many illegal apartments are not safe. If the apartment is in the basement, the windows must be egress windows, so people can escape during a fire. Legal apartments guarantee a certain level of safety and proper living quarters.
Plus, like well described above, illegal is illegal, and people who are following the law get penalized by people who break the law...
My point is there is a real housing issue on LI for the need of apartments no just $$$$
And my point is that a real housing problem doesn't justify the use of illegal means to achieve more affordable housing. In fact, illegal apartments lend to the increased cost of housing by raising taxes on legal rentals (and everyone else!)
Landlords renting out illegal apartments aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to help solve a housing problem. They're taking advantage of a demand illegally. As I stated, there are legal solutions. If affordable housing is an important issue to you and others, then take it up legally with the local governments.
ETA -- I'm not suggesting that the increasing costs of housing and demand for housing is an easy problem to fix. I am saying that illegal housing isn't the solution. It's probably helping contribute to the problem.
Message edited 2/25/2008 1:55:15 PM.
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| Posted 2/25/08 1:54 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by Kara
Posted by smdl
Posted by GoldenRod
Besides all of the tax issues, and the breaking the law issues, keep in mind that legal apartments must meet certain safety codes. Many illegal apartments are not safe. If the apartment is in the basement, the windows must be egress windows, so people can escape during a fire. Legal apartments guarantee a certain level of safety and proper living quarters.
Plus, like well described above, illegal is illegal, and people who are following the law get penalized by people who break the law...
My point is there is a real housing issue on LI for the need of apartments no just $$$$
And my point is that a real housing problem doesn't justify the use of illegal means to achieve more affordable housing. In fact, illegal apartments lend to the increased cost of housing by raising taxes on legal rentals (and everyone else!)
Landlords renting out illegal apartments aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to help solve a housing problem. They're taking advantage of a demand illegally. As I stated, there are legal solutions. If affordable housing is an important issue to you and others, then take it up legally with the local governments.
ETA -- I'm not suggesting that the increasing costs of housing and demand for housing is an easy problem to fix. I am saying that illegal housing isn't the solution. It's probably helping contribute to the problem.
ITA. But what would happen to all those people who count on their illegal tenants to pay their houses?
There are no easy solutions.
And yes, I agree. Illegal is illegal! I just thinks nobody (our towns officials!) has really find or even proposed a solution to the problem.
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| Posted 2/25/08 1:58 PM |
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Goobster
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by Kara
(though I see tons of legal apartments listed all the time all over LI) doesn't mean that it's a necessaity to break the law. It's not as if legal alternatives are not available. .
I agree. The rentals may not be in the area people want them to be in, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
So you go where the two family homes for rent are.
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| Posted 2/25/08 2:04 PM |
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Pumpkin1
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
ITA. But what would happen to all those people who count on their illegal tenants to pay their houses?
Get a 2nd job. If you cannot afford to own a home legally, then you shouldn't own a home.
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| Posted 2/25/08 3:00 PM |
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MsSissy
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
ITA. But what would happen to all those people who count on their illegal tenants to pay their houses?
There are affordable homes on Long Island.
We bought a small house. Only 2 bedrooms, 1 bath (gasp) and no basement, for 3 ppl. It was tight, but it was the sacrifice we made to afford our house on our own. And we kept telling ourselves, a 2 bedroom house, it better than a 2 bedroom apt. It's the same size, but it's ours!
Our friends thought we were crazy. They kept telling, buy a bigger house with an apt to help w/the mortgage. That wasn't an option for us. We didn't want to rely on anyone else to help pay our mortgage. We thought our friends were crazy for buying a house they couldn't afford on their own.
Message edited 2/25/2008 3:52:23 PM.
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| Posted 2/25/08 3:51 PM |
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GoldenRod
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by smdl
ITA. But what would happen to all those people who count on their illegal tenants to pay their houses?
There are no easy solutions.
And yes, I agree. Illegal is illegal! I just thinks nobody (our towns officials!) has really find or even proposed a solution to the problem.
You can't allow people to break the law to pay for things..... it would be like letting someone continue to commit petit larceny to pay for their house. It's called an "illegal apartment" for a reason. Illegal apartments are taking money away from me, my children (school taxes), and all of my neighbors (who have to pay higher taxes to cover the taxes not being paid by the illegal apartments).
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| Posted 2/25/08 4:11 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
I don't want people to think I am all for illegal apartments. I am a home owner also and until last year, I paid taxes for kids I did not have. Double pain!!! 
I just think Officials need to do something about it.
It's easy to complain but nothing has been offered as a solution.
We are talking about the future of our kids having to find a place to live if we all can afford to stay on LI.
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| Posted 2/25/08 4:43 PM |
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julz33
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julz
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
We have a studio apartment in our house. It is legal and was here when we bought the house. The way we are taxed is a 2-family house! I think a lot of Legal apartments are assumed to be Illegal... at least in my case all our friends and family assumed it to be illegal.
I don't like illegal apartments because I feel if we have to pay the extra taxes and keep everything to code, then everyone should have to do it  My mom has an illegal apartment, but it is rented to my great-grandmother. A case like that, when it is family, then it doesn't bother me.
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| Posted 2/25/08 6:16 PM |
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Goldi0218
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
We live and rent in a two family house in an incorporated village. There is no street parking at night - people park cars in permit spaces in a lot that is monitored. The permits given are limted and done by address - only a certain amount are given per household. People turn on each other all the time and when people get caught, they are heavily fined. Our apartment is 100% legal.
Message edited 2/25/2008 6:26:14 PM.
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| Posted 2/25/08 6:26 PM |
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browneyedgirl
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by smdl
ITA. But what would happen to all those people who count on their illegal tenants to pay their houses?
Get a 2nd job. If you cannot afford to own a home legally, then you shouldn't own a home.
wow. i am speechless and saddened at that comment   
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| Posted 2/25/08 7:47 PM |
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lovemy2boys
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by Beth1210
I rent in a legal 3 family in Bayside- I pay less for a 3 bed/2 bath with a driveway then I was paying for a 1 bedroom in a large building
my landlords rocks and is allowing to me give her short notice when we want to leave since we are also getting ready to buy a home
ETA- since I live in NYC - I pay my share of taxes- they take it right out of my pay check every week - plus the taxes on legal 3 familes are triple then a single family (there was one for sale on the block and they had a flyer with all the info)
You are talking about queens, where it is basically a free for all and people do whatever they want. I live in Queens very close to bayside, so I know. The schools in queens are over crowed and street parking is a nightmare in many places. also taxes in bayside are about 1/3 of the taxes on Long Island. The point is, if a person moves to the suburbs, buys a home on Long Island and pays 12,000 a year in taxes, chances are it's because they don't want to live in an area that is going to turn into Queens, right?
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| Posted 2/25/08 7:56 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
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Beth
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
You are talking about queens, where it is basically a free for all and people do whatever they want. I live in Queens very close to bayside, so I know. The schools in queens are over crowed and street parking is a nightmare in many places. also taxes in bayside are about 1/3 of the taxes on Long Island. The point is, if a person moves to the suburbs, buys a home on Long Island and pays 12,000 a year in taxes, chances are it's because they don't want to live in an area that is going to turn into Queens, right?
yes- I know I am talking about queens- and it happens to be very nice were I live and I would love to be able to afford to buy a even a 2 family here- the 3 family house I live in are about $1M and the taxes are $7K plus the $2500 per person that gets taken from our paychecks - so that's even more then most LI taxes
but the point of my post was comparing a building to a private house
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| Posted 2/25/08 8:06 PM |
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malone130
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
I personally don't have a problem with someone renting out their house as long as the people they are renting to are decent and it is not a disruption to the neighborhood.
I know quite a few people who have done it legally and illegally. Each with different situations.
I personally have a million other things on my mind each day to worry about what the neighbor down the block is doing with their house. You really can't judge someone else's choice unless you walk a mile in their shoes. You never know what someone else's situation is.
JMO
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| Posted 2/25/08 10:08 PM |
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nicrae
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Re: Spinoff on renting part of your house
Posted by malone130
I personally don't have a problem with someone renting out their house as long as the people they are renting to are decent and it is not a disruption to the neighborhood.
I know quite a few people who have done it legally and illegally. Each with different situations.
I personally have a million other things on my mind each day to worry about what the neighbor down the block is doing with their house. You really can't judge someone else's choice unless you walk a mile in their shoes. You never know what someone else's situation is.
JMO
I totally agree with this. It is easy to judge and make assumptions when you aren't standing in someone else's shoes.
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| Posted 2/25/08 10:19 PM |
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