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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
Dometic Partnerships do not offer the same rights as marriage.
I don't think the broad issue is getting marriages recognized by the church. That won't help people have the same legal rights that hetero spouses have.
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Posted 1/16/08 2:33 PM  |
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bird382
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Member since 7/07 1712 total posts
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
I think they would "settle" just for legal recognition at this point...
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:34 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
totally cool to ask me that
it's just the way i feel and i don't really have an answer for you to justify it.
honestly--i've heard that before a LOT from people. my dad is the same way---when i question him on it...he's just like "i dunno why - its just something i FEEL...i can't give a reason"
so you are not alone in that!
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:35 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by stephanief
Posted by shiv
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
and why shouldn't it be? 
i think it should be a legal marriage
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:36 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
totally cool to ask me that
it's just the way i feel and i don't really have an answer for you to justify it.
honestly--i've heard that before a LOT from people. my dad is the same way---when i question him on it...he's just like "i dunno why - its just something i FEEL...i can't give a reason"
so you are not alone in that!
yep - i'm not gonna sit here and pretend to have a rational answer to back up my feelings  because i don't
it's how i feel, it's my opinion - end of story
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:37 PM |
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Brittny817
LIF Toddler
Member since 8/07 410 total posts
Name:
Brittny
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by stephanief
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by dita
Posted by shiv
i'm really shocked by how many catholics are against the church's view on abortion.
Abortion as a form of birth control disgusts me. Multiple abortions disgust me as well.
But what about cases of incest? Rape? Drug addicts?
A life is a life, who are we to judge whether or not a child deserves to live.
it depends when you consider "life" to start...this is not really the point of this thread though
this is America, I am thankful for our right to CHOOSE (whatever that choice may be)
AMEN!
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:38 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
i think some want that---but really its not about the church for most...its about the government. being told that you are not allowed to marry based on your sexual preferece..makes them feel as though they are second class citizens. and that is the reason i think they should be allowed to have a federally recognized marriage. they pay taxes, they work hard, contribute to society, raise children.....everything that a man and woman do--but at the end of the day its not enough because people feel that its not "right" because its something that they don't understand or religious doctrine says is "wrong".
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:38 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by shiv
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
i think some want that---but really its not about the church for most...its about the government. being told that you are not allowed to marry based on your sexual preferece..makes them feel as though they are second class citizens. and that is the reason i think they should be allowed to have a federally recognized marriage. they pay taxes, they work hard, contribute to society, raise children.....everything that a man and woman do--but at the end of the day its not enough because people feel that its not "right" because its something that they don't understand or religious doctrine says is "wrong".
i agree with you on legallizing gay marriage. but this is a thread about the church's beliefs and there are alot of gay catholic people who want to be married in a catholic church- just clarifying.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:40 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 9/21/2009 2:13:37 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:41 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
i agree with you on legallizing gay marriage. but this is a thread about the church's beliefs and there are alot of gay catholic people who want to be married in a catholic church- just clarifying.
true. i wonder if people hope that if gay marriage was legalized in this country---that religions would start to follow suit.
i really doubt though that the catholic church will change their stance on this for a loooooong time. the only thing i sometimes think they might budget on in the near future is BC...but who knows
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:43 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by shiv
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
that is incorrect, in NY at least it has been turned down several times in CA thanks to the govinator too. you could have a gay couple that are together for 20 years and if one of them is sick and in the hospital, the partner is not considered family meaning they cannot see them. if there is no will, it goes to the family, not the partner. and forget about health benefits. the last company i worked for only gave familty benifits to people who were married. it is discrimination.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:43 PM |
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NinaLemon
It's a boy!!!
Member since 10/07 6453 total posts
Name:
Jeannine
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by dita
Posted by shiv
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
that is incorrect, in NY at least it has been turned down several times in CA thanks to the govinator too. you could have a gay couple that are together for 20 years and if one of them is sick and in the hospital, the partner is not considered family meaning they cannot see them. if there is no will, it goes to the family, not the partner. and forget about health benefits. the last company i worked for only gave familty benifits to people who were married. it is discrimination.
DH's company has a rider for domestic partnership, which we used before we were married; we had to pay tax on the portion payed by his employer towards my premium because the gov't does not recognize domestic partnership.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:45 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by NinaLemon
Posted by dita
Posted by shiv
correct me if I'm wrong, aren't gays allowed to have domestic partnerships now? It has nothing to do with the church and their not condiered married legally but they have alot of the same rights as married couples, i.e. shared health benefits, etc.
the issues is that gays wants their marriage to be recognized legally and by the church
that is incorrect, in NY at least it has been turned down several times in CA thanks to the govinator too. you could have a gay couple that are together for 20 years and if one of them is sick and in the hospital, the partner is not considered family meaning they cannot see them. if there is no will, it goes to the family, not the partner. and forget about health benefits. the last company i worked for only gave familty benifits to people who were married. it is discrimination.
DH's company has a rider for domestic partnership, which we used before we were married; we had to pay tax on the portion payed by his employer towards my premium because the gov't does not recognize domestic partnership.
ditto
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:46 PM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by Ali1
What I don't get is why do they advocate Natural Birth Control but not "Artificial Birth Control"? Are you not trying to avoid getting pregnant for whatever reason you want with NBC? This is an area where I think the church has to move into this century. People use Birth Control because for whatever reason they don't want kids at that time. And for some people NBC just does not work.
There are moral and immoral ways to space having children. There is nothing immoral about abstinence. Artificial BC prevents the natural process from occuring and in come cases acts as an abortificant.
What BC causes an abortion??
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:49 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
well this is certainly a regular free-for all of debates isn't it
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:50 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Message edited 11/15/2011 9:42:33 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:52 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
well this is certainly a regular free-for all of debates isn't it
i kind of like it! its nice to debate so many issues with people without it getting silly or heated at all
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:53 PM |
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codybear
Our Family is Complete!
Member since 11/06 2064 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Everything that people have listed above, including stem cell research. I've personally, and my parents personally have had a lot of bad experiences with priests in our local church. Basically I've decided that I disagree with the church establishment (not the teachings).
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:53 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mar·riage /'mær?d?/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.
Notice the words MAN and WOMAN.
This is the definition of marriage nothing more nothing less. Two people of the same sex cannot by definition ever be married.
The catholic church will NEVER condone any type of gay union no matter what the government decides.
my problem with that is -- who decides that it has to be a man & woman? as of right now -- the word 'marriage' has been associated with the idea of a man and woman....but that is because homosexuality was deemed wrong and 'immoral' by people for so many years.....but in reality its has been around as long as heterosexuality...it just hasn't been accepted and recognized the same way....and this is why these people wish to have the same equality as everyone else and change that antequated idea.
oh and just for the heck of it i looked up marriage on Webster's Dictionary site:
Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \'mer-ij, 'ma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
(2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>
so i guess it depends on what dictionary you are looking at---even they can't agree!
Message edited 1/16/2008 2:57:57 PM.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:56 PM |
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Brittny817
LIF Toddler
Member since 8/07 410 total posts
Name:
Brittny
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by codybear
Everything that people have listed above, including stem cell research. I've personally, and my parents personally have had a lot of bad experiences with priests in our local church. Basically I've decided that I disagree with the church establishment (not the teachings).
ABSOLUTELY!!! How could we forget stem cell research?? Very good point.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:56 PM |
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codybear
Our Family is Complete!
Member since 11/06 2064 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mar·riage /'mær?d?/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.
Notice the words MAN and WOMAN.
This is the definition of marriage nothing more nothing less. Two people of the same sex cannot by definition ever be married.
The catholic church will NEVER condone any type of gay union no matter what the government decides.
As for what the church believes, I think your statement above is right, however, definitions have been changed before to suit evolving social circumstances. Just because a dictionary defines it one way, doesn't mean that is how it has to be in the future.
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| Posted 1/16/08 2:57 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
well this is certainly a regular free-for all of debates isn't it
i kind of like it! its nice to debate so many issues with people without it getting silly or heated at all
im just having a hard time keeping up
but this is fun
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| Posted 1/16/08 3:05 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by SweetTooth
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by Ali1
What I don't get is why do they advocate Natural Birth Control but not "Artificial Birth Control"? Are you not trying to avoid getting pregnant for whatever reason you want with NBC? This is an area where I think the church has to move into this century. People use Birth Control because for whatever reason they don't want kids at that time. And for some people NBC just does not work.
There are moral and immoral ways to space having children. There is nothing immoral about abstinence. Artificial BC prevents the natural process from occuring and in come cases acts as an abortificant.
What BC causes an abortion??
There is one drig that caused abortion
but the church is also against the pill, other hormonal treatments and IUDS because they could conceivably allow conception but then prevent implantation..
Don't know what's wrong with barrier methods!
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| Posted 1/16/08 3:06 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
totally cool to ask me that
it's just the way i feel and i don't really have an answer for you to justify it.
honestly--i've heard that before a LOT from people. my dad is the same way---when i question him on it...he's just like "i dunno why - its just something i FEEL...i can't give a reason"
so you are not alone in that!
yep - i'm not gonna sit here and pretend to have a rational answer to back up my feelings because i don't
it's how i feel, it's my opinion - end of story
You have every righ to have an opinon. However, opinions should(IMO of ocurse) be based on some sort of knowledge about something. By the way, do your parents feel like this? Were you raised with this sort of paradigm? I am always questioning my opinions and why I feel the way I feel and I realize a lot of times it is a societal or parental view that has been so drilled into me that I can't separate the way I feel or if its the way someone else feels. KWIM?
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| Posted 1/16/08 3:10 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Catholics - What do you disagree with the church about?
Posted by melijane
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
totally cool to ask me that
it's just the way i feel and i don't really have an answer for you to justify it.
honestly--i've heard that before a LOT from people. my dad is the same way---when i question him on it...he's just like "i dunno why - its just something i FEEL...i can't give a reason"
so you are not alone in that!
yep - i'm not gonna sit here and pretend to have a rational answer to back up my feelings because i don't
it's how i feel, it's my opinion - end of story
You have every righ to have an opinon. However, opinions should(IMO of ocurse) be based on some sort of knowledge about something. By the way, do your parents feel like this? Were you raised with this sort of paradigm? I am always questioning my opinions and why I feel the way I feel and I realize a lot of times it is a societal or parental view that has been so drilled into me that I can't separate the way I feel or if its the way someone else feels. KWIM?
I'm glad to hear people doing this kind of analysis!
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| Posted 1/16/08 3:10 PM |
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