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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Smileyd17
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Hofstra26
All arguments aside one way or the other...............what is REAL point of "Occupy Wall Street". Honestly, from everything I've read online and seen on the news they have NO "real" message, NO real plan of action, no list of ideas on how to fix anything, no goal, no anything. Sitting around and whining about the top 1% of wealth in this country is not going to fix anything with our economy.
I get that the economy stinks right now and finding a job isn't very easy but I'm not really sure what these people hope to achieve when all is said and done. What's the end game here? What do they hope to accomplish? I just don't get it really. I *personally* think it's a fruitless effort. I could be wrong, but the whole thing just seems so misguided and all over the place. Perhaps if there was a more cohesive message, goal, and plan it would be different but this just seems like organized whining right now.
If someone wants to enlighten me, feel free. 
I like to be enlightened too.
The other day I asked DH- Well what do they WANT?
Like what do they want in order to stop the protesting? What is the goal?
I am not flaming what they are doing, etc- just genuinely curious as to what it is they want....
honestly I did too.
I kind of told him, I dont get it...what are they fighting for exactly?
A protest normally starts with a demand, and I dont see it.
I think it's less about what they are fighting for and more about the general consensus of people being FED UP. Disgusted. And people are waking up and realizing that majority rules.
kwim?
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Posted 10/17/11 3:23 PM  |
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nrthshgrl
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Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I can't speak for them because well...I'm not down there.
Because there isn't one cohesive message, I'm not sure there is one answer to this. I believe the point is to bring awareness - as I said before that - that something needs to change. It's my hope that politicians start taking this movement & THEIR jobs seriously - to represent the people that voted for them. Not the corporations & industries that they get a job in AFTER they leave Congress.
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| Posted 10/17/11 4:21 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
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BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by nrthshgrl
I can't speak for them because well...I'm not down there.
Because there isn't one cohesive message, I'm not sure there is one answer to this. I believe the point is to bring awareness - as I said before that - that something needs to change. It's my hope that politicians start taking this movement & THEIR jobs seriously - to represent the people that voted for them. Not the corporations & industries that they get a job in AFTER they leave Congress.
I think you're right. I don't think they're saying they have the answers but just that they're fed up with how the system isn't working and that there needs to be real dialogue about how to fix this broken system.
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| Posted 10/17/11 4:32 PM |
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tourist
Member since 5/05 10425 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by nrthshgrl
I can't speak for them because well...I'm not down there.
Because there isn't one cohesive message, I'm not sure there is one answer to this. I believe the point is to bring awareness - as I said before that - that something needs to change. It's my hope that politicians start taking this movement & THEIR jobs seriously - to represent the people that voted for them. Not the corporations & industries that they get a job in AFTER they leave Congress.
I was there about 2 hours ago. It is a very strange scene. I wouldn't really use the word "protest" at all. It was definitely peaceful--it generally just looks like a bunch of people hanging out, some with posters, some without--sort of like the crowd you might see at an outdoor festival.
One guy was just splatter-painting. Not sure what that was about, but I kinda wanted to join in. 
There was one guy who was handing out a an Occupy Wall Street Newspaper--they looked impressively professional from a distance.
A couple of people were just on the ground in sleeping bags- with a hunger strike sign near them.
A few people had posters with lengthy messages that were kind of hard to read.
Someone else had some sort of all natural water filtration system. I am not sure if they were using it, or demonstating it.
A few signs were directed at Obama, and at Congress. And someone has a larger poster board with newsclippings about the protest.
I get the anger & frustration, but I don't really understand what they are trying to draw attention to. Do people not really know things are bad?
They are getting media attention, which is good, I guess, but I don't think Big Bussiness is even batting an eyelash.
Maybe Congress will, but if that is the point, why didn't the protests start in DC?
I don't know--I respect the right to peaceful protest in this country, but the marketing manager in me just wants them to have a clear message & a call to to action.
Message edited 10/17/2011 5:52:57 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 4:38 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I'm saddened by some of the bullying on this thread.
Not everyone has to agree on this issue. But singling people out on the thread, being incredibly condescending, and personally attacking them is really uncalled for...
Message edited 10/17/2011 5:18:49 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:18 PM |
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EastEndGRL
LIF Zygote
Member since 10/11 2 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
wow i'm a regular poster on here and some of these responses are disqusting to me.
I am employed by this system that some hate so much. honestly do not think that people who do not have the knowledge about how medicaid, housing, food stamps, public assitance work should be commenting on it.
Day after day I see people in the lobbys of our social services buildings who are there because they lost there job. People receiving "welfare" (which is not the politically correct term-the correct term is public assistance) are not all drug addicts or low lifes. I interviewed someone today who was so humbled about having to receive food stamps to feed her 2 chidlren and her husband.
The drug addicts on the street? Not all drug addicts are without the history of employment. And they are not entitled to housing and health insurance? Who are you to put a value on someone's life?? Perhaps if they had health insurance they would be able to get into rehab and get sober and get a job and contribute to society. But without medicaid or other health insurance they can not get into rehab/detox.
And people do not just walk in "off the street" and get medicaid and public assistance just like that. There is a process they have to go through. They have to attend certain appointments and they are assessed. They are often times sent to Department of Labor job sites, where guess what? they're not getting paid minimum wage there getting approximtately 30 dollars a week to live on and 309 for a single for housing and maybe just maybe 150 a month in food stamps.you try feeding your child, and buying formula and diapers with that, oh and paying for transportation.
The system is BROKEN. Whether it's Wall Street or the people down in Washington, it's broken and there is no easy solution to fix it. This country is deeply in the ******* more than anyone in elected office wants to admit and much more than you hear on the news. At least the people who are involved in OWS are actually protesting for something that they believe in instead of sitting behind a screen name on some chat boards b*****ing about it and blaiming it on everyone they can blaim.
Just my two cents.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:21 PM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
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Jeannie
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by tourist
I get the anger & frustration, but I don't really understnad what they are trying to draw attention to. Do people not really know things are bad?
Just look at some of the responses on this board regarding 'how things are' and you will have answered that question. I'll answer it again. No.. some people genuinely do not get how bad it is.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:22 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by brownie
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think everyone should be "entitled" (for lack of a better word) to the same things. (healthcare, housing, etc.) Some people have more valuable skills, more education, work harder, better luck, etc. etc. and as such should be compensated for that. I don't begrudge anyone with money, I can only do what I can to make my life the best it can be and hopefully give my DD and any future children a good life. Just sayin'.
Am I reading this right, you don't think everyone should be given healthcare?
Do I think the drug addict on the street contributing nothing to society in any way deserves healthcare when the rest of us have to work hard and pay for healthcare benefits? Then the answer is yes, I don't think EVERYONE deserves the SAME healthcare benefits. I have a problem with noncontributing members of society sucking benefits they don't deserve such as the mom with 8 kids who keeps getting pregnant and collecting welfare or the loser drug addict who hasn't worked a day in his life being given health benefits. Sorry, DH and I work hard for what we have. Nobody deserves a free handout.
you don't work. you are covered through your dh through a system that has you covered b/c OTHER people contribute to it. the only difference is, you don't do drugs (I imagine)
all healthcare is socialist. most insurances are built like that. we all put into a pool and people take what they need at different times, and it all evens out in the end.
I understand that but we are paying into that pool of insurance. What I am talking about is the jobless, noncontributing member of society who is NOT paying into the system yet reaping the benefits of it. KWIM?
you are jobless. so someone looking at you could say the same thing. this is ugly. this shouldn't come out of anyone's mind. I am blown away. I am sorry. it's just wrong.
maybe someone else is paying into the system. maybe they had a job for years and never got sick but paid in that whole time, but now they need it and they are not covered. what then???? I just can't wrap my brain around this at all.
I am jobless by choice with a DH who PAYS a cr@pload of money into our FAMILY medical plan so we can be covered. He works and pays so we can have benefits. I was NOT talking about a SAHM (as an example) or people who were laid off when I was referring to who "deserves" healthcare. I was referring to people who have never contributed anything to society at large yet reap the benefits we all pay for. Such as a drug addict or the person with eight kids who has NEVER worked. I was not referring to someone who lost a job or chooses to stay home. I wish people would READ BEFORE they post.
Oh so because you CHOOSE to not work it's ok?
I got news for you, I DO work and I DON'T have health insurance.
I work for a VERY small non-profit.
I'm debt FREE.
If something catastrophic befalls me health wise, I'm SCREWED.
BANKRUPTED.
Do you know how much it cost me to go to my OB/GYN for my annual and get a PAP smear? $1127. Now to me, that's BASIC healthcare - I paid it and SUCKED IT UP but rest assured I bet the cost has NEVER even crossed your mind.
I can only PRAY I don't get sick because GOD ONLY KNOWS how much something SERIOUS would cost.
It's so SAD that you would even think people aren't deserving of the same GREAT healthcare.
Who are YOU to put ANY sort of value on someone's life?
By your own admission you don't work. YOU don't contribute. I guess by YOUR logic YOU shouldn't have any healthcare since it's NOT YOUR SALARY paying for it.
Very sad.
My DH chose a job with a company who offered excellent benefits. We pay probably three times as much than the single people in his company so that DH, my DD, and myself are all covered. So it doesn't matter that I made a choice to not work.........I'm still paying into the system that I am using. What does it matter whose salary is paying it? The fact is, we're paying for our health insurance coverage out of every paycheck and even still.............it costs a fortune on top of that with co-pays, deductibles, and co-insurance.
I am not going to continue to go back and forth with this as it wasn't meant to be a healthcare debate. I've said what I had to on this subject. I'm sorry but I simply don't think that everything in the world is fair and equitable and I don't really see why people feel the need to try and make it that way. Life just doesn't work that way. Life isn't fair. Not everyone leads a charmed life. I'd love to be a millionaire and live in a mansion but I am not and I don't and I'm okay with that. I'm not going to whine that it's "not fair" that I only get to live in house. There will always be those who have less, have more, have enough..........it's the way the world works. That will NEVER change.
Edit - There is no easy solution to any of what is going on. I don't claim to have the answers and as much as we all go back and forth nobody on here does either. It's a complicated mess that will take a lot of time, work, and effort to fix. But back to my original point which was..............not really sure how sitting around on Wall Street will really help. JMO.
Message edited 10/17/2011 5:32:15 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:28 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by MommyAgain
sorry but my view on this, comes from gut and morals..
That bum on the street, you have no friggen idea what their story is..maybe they were a baby born into it, maybe they had millions, and blew it..maybe they dont give a cr*p about your "society" and usually those are the homeless that wont even go to shelters or hospitals when theyre sick..
That drug addict..the one over there, who may or may not be related to your friend, cousin, daughter, neighbor, brother..
i cannot stand the "well, im better then THAT one over there" mentality...some of you need to pick up a bible, or go to temple or wherever you may worship and ask yourselves if ignoring simple humanity bc they choose, or just happen to get stuck with a different, less endearing path then you is ok with your soul. If you still feel "right" with your answer, please msg me, so i can pray that nothing terrible ever happens to you that would put you in these undesirable situations. We're talking about human life people. Now i know why i stay off here. 
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:33 PM |
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Stacey1403
Where it all began....
Member since 5/05 24065 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Some of the responses on here make me very scared and want to cry
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:40 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Hofstra, I am going to pray for you. pray that all of your great decisions pay off. b/c I feel like you think it could never happen to you b/c you are so smart and awesome. I am not sure if that is how you really feel or if it's just how you are coming off.
but I just can't help but think that you wouldn't be so cocksure if you were part of the some that were completely effed right now.
it SHOULD change. people should not be homeless. sick and dying with no access to simple medicines that could save them.
it won't b/c those that have see no need for things to change. and that is were we fail as a society.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:43 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
My DH chose a job with a company who offered excellent benefits. We pay probably three times as much than the single people in his company so that DH, my DD, and myself are all covered. So it doesn't matter that I made a choice to not work.........I'm still paying into the system that I am using. What does it matter whose salary is paying it? The fact is, we're paying for our health insurance coverage out of every paycheck and even still.............it costs a fortune on top of that with co-pays, deductibles, and co-insurance.
I also have health insurance through my DH (and could get it if I want through being a student). But not everyone is lucky as you and me...and yeah we work hard, but there is a certain amount of luck that factors into where we end up in the world. Do you have no compassion to think that all HUMANS deserve to get some basic health care provided?
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:49 PM |
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Jenn627
Laaaaaaaambert!
Member since 5/08 9818 total posts
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Jenn
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
it SHOULD change. people should not be homeless. sick and dying with no access to simple medicines that could save them.
it won't b/c those that have see no need for things to change. and that is were we fail as a society.
Ding, ding, ding.
I don't think people grasp what is happening.
It's frightening.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:50 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
Hofstra, I am going to pray for you. pray that all of your great decisions pay off. b/c I feel like you think it could never happen to you b/c you are so smart and awesome. I am not sure if that is how you really feel or if it's just how you are coming off.
but I just can't help but think that you wouldn't be so cocksure if you were part of the some that were completely effed right now.
it SHOULD change. people should not be homeless. sick and dying with no access to simple medicines that could save them.
it won't b/c those that have see no need for things to change. and that is were we fail as a society.
First, I don't think I am great and awesome. I am realistic. Realistic about the world around me. Wouldn't it be lovely if there was no homelessness and no illness and no poverty?? Of course but that is a pipe dream. Since the dawn of man there has been no equity, no fairness for all. Life just doesn't work out that way. So to go on and on that it's not fair and everyone should be afforded the same opportunities is a wasted argument and a waste of time because that doesn't help fix the problems our country is facing nor is that an attainable goal. It just isn't.
I also understand all of the replies regarding homeless vets and those who lost their jobs but how naive to think there aren't people that abuse the system. Those are the people I was referring to and I do take issue with having to support people in our society that take, take, take but don't contribute. And there are PLENTY of those people. Not everyone but they are out there. So to go back at me constantly as if rotten people don't exist in our society is just ridiculous. Those are the people I am speaking about, not a homeless vet or some guy down on his luck because he lost his job through no fault of his own.
As far as your first statement, of course anything can happen to anyone. If my DH lost his job, which luckily due to the nature of his job or position is not likely although possible as is anything in life, we'd be screwed like everyone else. I would lose my house in a month. I made a choice to be a SAHM and give up my salary so things are tight for us and we couldn't afford for him to lose his job. I am no different than anone else on this board. Luckily for us, things seem secure but I don't think I think I am better than anyone else and I don't think anything I said should have given that impression. You have continually misread what I was saying.
Message edited 10/17/2011 5:55:29 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:54 PM |
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DirtyBlonde
*****
Member since 11/07 7344 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Last time:
Posted by Hofstra26
What does it matter whose salary is paying it?
By your flawed logic, it totally matters. Your words :
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think everyone should be "entitled" (for lack of a better word) to the same things. (healthcare, housing, etc.) Some people have more valuable skills, more education, work harder, better luck, etc. etc. and as such should be compensated for that.
You don't pay. You don't draw a salary. You are entitled - by your logic - to nothing.
I don't want to go back and forth because you're incapable of understanding anything outside of your own experience.
I hope you're so wrong. That it WILL change and change (for once) for the better for everyone.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:56 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Last time:
Posted by Hofstra26
What does it matter whose salary is paying it?
By your flawed logic, it totally matters. Your words :
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think everyone should be "entitled" (for lack of a better word) to the same things. (healthcare, housing, etc.) Some people have more valuable skills, more education, work harder, better luck, etc. etc. and as such should be compensated for that.
You don't pay. You don't draw a salary. You are entitled - by your logic - to nothing.
I don't want to go back and forth because you're incapable of understanding anything outside of your own experience.
I hope you're so wrong. That it WILL change and change (for once) for the better for everyone.
So over this thread.
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:58 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I forgot to add, something's wrong when prisoners get healthcare and law-abiding citizens don't!
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| Posted 10/17/11 5:59 PM |
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KCCL
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/11 641 total posts
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
The solutions ARE simple. We all learned them in kindergarten. Share, be kind and help one another.
Unfortunately those ideals get lost somewhere along the way.
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:00 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
I'm sorry but I simply don't think that everything in the world is fair and equitable and I don't really see why people feel the need to try and make it that way. Life just doesn't work that way. Life isn't fair. Not everyone leads a charmed life. I'd love to be a millionaire and live in a mansion but I am not and I don't and I'm okay with that. I'm not going to whine that it's "not fair" that I only get to live in house.
I'm not sure how you think it's fair to compare you complaining that you don't have a mansion to someone complaining about not having a place to sleep at night or access to healthcare.
Posted by Hofstra26
If my DH lost his job, which luckily due to the nature of his job or position is not likely although possible as is anything in life, we'd be screwed like everyone else.
What if, God forbid, your husband lost his job and you lost your healthcare, and then one of you got sick? What if you couldn't afford to save your little girl? Would you just say "sucks for me, life's not fair"? Somehow I doubt it.
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:06 PM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
This thread makes me so effing sad.
We really live in a very self centered world, don't we? As long as I have milk in the fridge and next month's mortgage in the bank, life is good.
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:19 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
That's what bothers me. People who have a job, b enefits, etc are assuming people without them don't have them because they somehow did something wrong. Whatever. We all deserve a chance.
To those of you who are against OWS, just tell me how you feel about the follow statement (taken actually from an opinion piece on Foxnews.com of all places):
"In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/14/understanding-occupy-wall-street/#ixzz1b530domn
Do you feel that this is something that is right and it's ok?
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:23 PM |
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Kate
*****
Member since 5/05 7557 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I don't understand how "protesting" Wall Street will help change anything. Wall Street actually employs people.
Why don't we look at the reasons the economy is so bad and try to fix it? Maybe start with Congress...
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:40 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by annoyedTTCer
So, what is wrong with that?
Where is it written that everyone is entitled to what the 1% has?
Would rather work hard and get as close to that 1% as possible versus those sitting back expecting things to be handed to them.
My question, though, is what makes the 1% 'entitled' to what they have? Do you really think every billionaire, millionaire, etc. is THAT MUCH smarter or better than the rest of the country?
And for those saying 'well, life's not fair', that's fine and dandy. But we are ENTITLED to protest (peacefully) that which we find unfair, and we are ENTITLED to start a conversation about how to make it MORE fair (equitable, whatever word you want to use).
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:42 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by annoyedTTCer
So, what is wrong with that?
Where is it written that everyone is entitled to what the 1% has?
Would rather work hard and get as close to that 1% as possible versus those sitting back expecting things to be handed to them.
My question, though, is what makes the 1% 'entitled' to what they have? Do you really think every billionaire, millionaire, etc. is THAT MUCH smarter or better than the rest of the country?
And for those saying 'well, life's not fair', that's fine and dandy. But we are ENTITLED to protest (peacefully) that which we find unfair, and we are ENTITLED to start a conversation about how to make it MORE fair (equitable, whatever word you want to use).
My question is, how is asking for adequate housing and healthcare the same as asking to be part of the 1%?
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:44 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14007 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Kate
I don't understand how "protesting" Wall Street will help change anything. Wall Street actually employs people.
Why don't we look at the reasons the economy is so bad and try to fix it? Maybe start with Congress...
For me, this is where they loss me. I don't think it starts at Wall Street. I think it starts at Capital Hill. I think it's demanding the end of lobbying, campaign contributions, etc. But - every movement starts somewhere.
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| Posted 10/17/11 6:45 PM |
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