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lululu
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Member since 7/05 9508 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by drpepper318
Such crap & so unfair.
This won't hurt the millionaires. This will hurt the middle class families only, who will be funding this, but make just over the cap to allow their kids to benefit from it.
The abuse this will bring about is ridiculous. People will lie about their incomes, fake a NY address & other scams for the free education.
If you're paying for college (or have loans), you take it more seriously... Now it'll become like public high school... a right instead of a privilege you work hard for.
What does this tell me? That before my kids hit college age I might as well quit my job to lower our household income... what's the incentive to work? So I have to bust my ass & hope my kids get scholarships while others get a free education they don't necessarily deserve that my tax dollars will be paying for, while I have to scrape by to send my own kids to college? No thanks.
Yes let's just perpetuate the culture of laziness & encourage people to stick their hand out more & more instead of working hard for what they get, as it should be.
Sickening.
Initially I had the same exact thoughts. This really doesn't hurt the rich at all - their taxes will go up marginally to fund it and they will still have to pay for college, but they can afford it. Then I looked at the median household income for NYS and it's actually only around $60k. So the majority of middle class New Yorker's would benefit from it - BUT not the middle class in the NY metro area (Long Island, NYC, Westchester and even some counties right north of Westchester). The burden will be on this area and make an already unaffordable place to live even worse.
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Posted 1/5/17 7:41 AM  |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
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D
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by busymomonli
Posted by gforce
Posted by busymomonli
My questions as well. And in my opinion, they are going to have to make their admissions requirements much stricter.
My daughter is a junior and her reaction was this: "Great, now every dumb moron can go to college right along side me. Why did I bother taking all these AP classes and getting a 4.0 GPA when now everyone can just go?" I thought it was interesting.
I don't think a dumb moron didn't go to college because they can't afford it. A dumb moron didn't go to college because they can't get into college because of their grades. The admission requirements should be the same and hopefully the free tuition will motivate people to learn, as the possibility of a college education is possible now.
I live in a working class district. Many kids here don't try very hard because they know their parents can't afford college. They slack off, smoke pot, and get below average/average grades because they think their only option is Suffolk Community College. I think her point was that she worked her butt off for her grades and now those kids that are barely trying can go to college alongside her.
I feel like they would have to change their admissions requirements. There will be a huge influx in the amount of applications, there is no way they could accept them all. Standards will have go up.
Honestly, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If a kid is motivated and bright they should try EVEN HARDER, get a scholarship, thrive at Suffolk community etc. etc. Anyone with the mentality you describe quite honestly doesn't deserve a free ride to college. Then what? No motivation to try because they get a shit job to start off with?? Where does it end. Have some drive and motivation. Such a cop-out excuse IMO. There are ways to get through college even if your parents don't have money to pay for it. Get a job, study harder - but I guess smoking weed and partying your ass off is way more appealing 
EXACTLY!!!!! It is like another entitlement handed to them
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:27 AM |
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
This would not be an entitlement handed to anyone--people would still have to APPLY to and BE ACCEPTED to college. He isn't saying the SUNY doors will be wide open for anyone and everyone to just waltz into for a free education. Plus it is only tuition, which is a small part of the overall college expense. Room, board, books and fees would still have to be paid for.
It has a lot of possibility and I hope it gets a sincere and thorough viability study as many might be able to benefit from this. I'd gladly pay my fair share for education rather than wars and Wall St. greed.
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:43 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by BaseballWidow
This would not be an entitlement handed to anyone--people would still have to APPLY to and BE ACCEPTED to college. He isn't saying the SUNY doors will be wide open for anyone and everyone to just waltz into for a free education. Plus it is only tuition, which is a small part of the overall college expense. Room, board, books and fees would still have to be paid for.
It has a lot of possibility and I hope it gets a sincere and thorough viability study as many might be able to benefit from this. I'd gladly pay my fair share for education rather than wars and Wall St. greed.
Even if it's JUST tuition it's still A LOT of money. Just because someone is making more than $125K (which is practically nothing with most families on the island and the city) doesn't mean flipping the bill for college is an easy thing. I *personally* have no interest in subsidizing a college education for someone else when it will be a big enough expense for me to pay for my own children.
I think the cap needs to be raised, $125K is too low. If I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this then I want my kids getting their tuition covered too!!!
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:48 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
I'm pretty sure this already exists in a limited fashion. I think the TAP grants, which are tax-funded, "free" tuition to eligible students is a smaller version of this program. The financial cap is lower that $125k, (I think it's $80k), but anyone who qualifies and keeps the GPA requirements (potentially) gets free tuition all four years.
We're all paying for kids to get free (or reduced) education through our tax dollars via several State grants.
Based on the chart I posted on the first page, annual tuition (not counting other fees and books, etc) is roughly $5k/year, so I really don't think many people are going to quit their jobs to get $5k.
I think more details about what the plan actually entails needs to be published so we aren't all making wild assumptions as to what is and isn't happening.
I definitely agree that the $125k cap should be raised.
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:53 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
State college tuition is about $7k per year, so I don't think its going to be as much of a tax burden, if any, as people think.
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:54 AM |
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Chai77
Brighter days ahead
Member since 4/07 7364 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by Diane
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by busymomonli
Posted by gforce
Posted by busymomonli
My questions as well. And in my opinion, they are going to have to make their admissions requirements much stricter.
My daughter is a junior and her reaction was this: "Great, now every dumb moron can go to college right along side me. Why did I bother taking all these AP classes and getting a 4.0 GPA when now everyone can just go?" I thought it was interesting.
I don't think a dumb moron didn't go to college because they can't afford it. A dumb moron didn't go to college because they can't get into college because of their grades. The admission requirements should be the same and hopefully the free tuition will motivate people to learn, as the possibility of a college education is possible now.
I live in a working class district. Many kids here don't try very hard because they know their parents can't afford college. They slack off, smoke pot, and get below average/average grades because they think their only option is Suffolk Community College. I think her point was that she worked her butt off for her grades and now those kids that are barely trying can go to college alongside her.
I feel like they would have to change their admissions requirements. There will be a huge influx in the amount of applications, there is no way they could accept them all. Standards will have go up.
Honestly, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If a kid is motivated and bright they should try EVEN HARDER, get a scholarship, thrive at Suffolk community etc. etc. Anyone with the mentality you describe quite honestly doesn't deserve a free ride to college. Then what? No motivation to try because they get a shit job to start off with?? Where does it end. Have some drive and motivation. Such a cop-out excuse IMO. There are ways to get through college even if your parents don't have money to pay for it. Get a job, study harder - but I guess smoking weed and partying your ass off is way more appealing
EXACTLY!!!!! It is like another entitlement handed to them
CUNY was tuition free for 150 years, up until 1976. Not every one can get one of the limited amount of scholarships out there, but that doesn't necessarily mean the student can't succeed in college. This reactionary Horacio Alger mentality is really astonishing to me.
You know, my father went to a combination of free CUNY and then a private graduate school for "free" under the GI Bill. My grandfather was a not very lucrative tradesman and there is no way my dad and his siblings could have attended college without these "hand outs." Thanks to the "free rides," my dad has had a very successful professional career and been able to provide well for our family.
So you tell me to my face that my dad was an entitled lazy freeloader who took advantage of the system.
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| Posted 1/5/17 8:56 AM |
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by Hofstra26
I *personally* have no interest in subsidizing a college education for someone else when it will be a big enough expense for me to pay for my own children.
I think the cap needs to be raised, $125K is too low. If I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this then I want my kids getting their tuition covered too!!!
So it's not ok for some kids' education to be subsidized unless yours our too. Got it. What if the next income tier has the same opinion and you are below that cap? Then does your opinion change?
Personally I prefer being above the cap and figuring out college for ourselves.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:08 AM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by Hofstra26
I *personally* have no interest in subsidizing a college education for someone else when it will be a big enough expense for me to pay for my own children.
I think the cap needs to be raised, $125K is too low. If I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this then I want my kids getting their tuition covered too!!!
So it's not ok for some kids' education to be subsidized unless yours our too. Got it. What if the next income tier has the same opinion and you are below that cap? Then does your opinion change?
Personally I prefer being above the cap and figuring out college for ourselves.
It's a few thousand dollars a year. It doesn't cover room and board and every expense. If I don't go back to work, we'd qualify. If I do (most likely I will) then we won't and we'll be more than able to pay the minimum tuition.
Think long term. If more young adults will be motivated and well educated, then hopefully they'll find decent jobs with benefits and be able to take care of themselves and their families. How much would that save us all in the long run. I definitely do think there should be GPA requirements in order to maintain the assistance.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:28 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by Hofstra26
I *personally* have no interest in subsidizing a college education for someone else when it will be a big enough expense for me to pay for my own children.
I think the cap needs to be raised, $125K is too low. If I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this then I want my kids getting their tuition covered too!!!
So it's not ok for some kids' education to be subsidized unless yours our too. Got it. What if the next income tier has the same opinion and you are below that cap? Then does your opinion change?
Personally I prefer being above the cap and figuring out college for ourselves.
I think we should figure out a system where a college education is affordable (or free) for ALL, not some.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:36 AM |
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Bridex100
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by Pumpkin1
State college tuition is about $7k per year, so I don't think its going to be as much of a tax burden, if any, as people think.
7k per year is a reasonable amount for a college student to take out loans. Motivated students can get scholarships. Lower income kids can get some grants.
I don't think it is fair for higher income individuals to foot the bill and not benefit from the tuition assistance.
I used to cringe when both Hillary and Bernie campaigned on this topic.
eta: At my peak, I think I had around 100k in student loans. I was able to pay the loans back and am debt free. My parents did not contribute to my college or grad school tuition.
Message edited 1/5/2017 9:50:38 AM.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:38 AM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by Hofstra26
I *personally* have no interest in subsidizing a college education for someone else when it will be a big enough expense for me to pay for my own children.
I think the cap needs to be raised, $125K is too low. If I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this then I want my kids getting their tuition covered too!!!
So it's not ok for some kids' education to be subsidized unless yours our too. Got it. What if the next income tier has the same opinion and you are below that cap? Then does your opinion change?
Personally I prefer being above the cap and figuring out college for ourselves.
Doesn't the government currently offer subsidized loans that would cover tuition for a state school? I understand free is more attractive, but a motivated student can take loans just like many kids do who have parents making more than $125k.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:40 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
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Shawn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
https://trends.collegeboard.org/student-aid/figures-tables/pell-grants-total-expenditures-maximum-and-average-grant-and-number-recipients-over-time
We're currently paying, through our tax dollars, between $30 and $40 billion dollars per year on free or reduced education for 8 to 9 million students per year through the Federal Pell grant system.
https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/highered/12d1.pdf
In 2010-2011, New York State spent $869 million on the Tuition Assistance Program, which provided aid to 309,540 students. TAP is a state grant, which is "free" money for school, paid by our taxes.
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| Posted 1/5/17 9:58 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Stop with those pesky fact thingies, it makes the entitlement/freeloader comments sound silly.
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| Posted 1/5/17 10:17 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by Pumpkin1
Stop with those pesky fact thingies, it makes the entitlement/freeloader comments sound silly.
Sorry.. can't help myself... 
The Pell Grant program was started in 1972. The Scholar Incentive Program (NY State grants) was started in 1961, and was converted/switched to TAP in 1974, so we've been paying for free education for our entire adult lives, and our parents have been paying into it for a long time as well.
Damn... did it again with the facts stuff.... 
Message edited 1/5/2017 10:30:40 AM.
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| Posted 1/5/17 10:26 AM |
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JennP
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Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
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Jenn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
What I don't see mentioned so far is that a major problem with relying on loans is that it discourages people from entering lower paying but rewarding and necessary careers.
I personally don't want to create a society where talented people can't become teachers, social workers, etc. because they won't be able to afford to pay back the loans on their salaries.
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| Posted 1/5/17 10:32 AM |
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DiamondGirl
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Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
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Cuomo free college announcement
I will preface this by saying I am a Democrat. That said, I do not agree with this.
We have affordable college options. SUNY and CUNY are affordable.the actual tuition for SUNY is @ $6500, no one NEEDS to dorm, I worked full time and earned my masters degree, it is all doable.
I do not think that fully funding anyone's college education will improve or benefit anyone--you want a degree pay something, take a loan again AFFORDABLE not free.
Furthermore IF this does happen the $125 cap is absolute and utter mother fuckinggggg ********, so I will be paying for this but MY KIDS won't be eligible? I will leave NYS so ******* quick
Message edited 1/5/2017 10:58:41 AM.
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| Posted 1/5/17 10:58 AM |
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jlm2008
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Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Pumpkin1
Stop with those pesky fact thingies, it makes the entitlement/freeloader comments sound silly.
Sorry.. can't help myself...
The Pell Grant program was started in 1972. The Scholar Incentive Program (NY State grants) was started in 1961, and was converted/switched to TAP in 1974, so we've been paying for free education for our entire adult lives, and our parents have been paying into it for a long time as well.
Damn... did it again with the facts stuff....
Funny, because when I heard the announcement, I said to myself don't we kind of already do this with TAP & PELL? But then when I saw the uproar on here I thought I must be completely wrong. Glad to see I wasn't!
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:03 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by DiamondGirl
I will preface this by saying I am a Democrat. That said, I do not agree with this.
We have affordable college options. SUNY and CUNY are affordable.the actual tuition for SUNY is @ $6500, no one NEEDS to dorm, I worked full time and earned my masters degree, it is all doable.
I do not think that fully funding anyone's college education will improve or benefit anyone--you want a degree pay something, take a loan again AFFORDABLE not free.
Furthermore IF this does happen the $125 cap is absolute and utter mother fuckinggggg ********, so I will be paying for this but MY KIDS won't be eligible? I will leave NYS so ******* quick
But, you DO agree with it indirectly. As I've been posting, we've been supporting the TAP program in NY for decades, which your tax dollars are used to give FREE college education for certain individuals, and you will never qualify for those benefits, since one of the requirements is an $80k salary cap.
I'm not saying I'm 100% behind this new plan, since I haven't seen the details, but the concept has been around longer than the vast majority of us, and I haven't seen people leaving the state, or society crumbling because of existing grant money, much of which none of us will qualify for.
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:06 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Pumpkin1
Stop with those pesky fact thingies, it makes the entitlement/freeloader comments sound silly.
Sorry.. can't help myself...
The Pell Grant program was started in 1972. The Scholar Incentive Program (NY State grants) was started in 1961, and was converted/switched to TAP in 1974, so we've been paying for free education for our entire adult lives, and our parents have been paying into it for a long time as well.
Damn... did it again with the facts stuff....
Funny, because when I heard the announcement, I said to myself don't we kind of already do this with TAP & PELL? But then when I saw the uproar on here I thought I must be completely wrong. Glad to see I wasn't!
I'm just waiting to see what the cost/implications are for expanding the existing system. The concept has been around for over 40 years, so it obviously has been proven to be a societal benefit in it's current form. It's entirely possible that the expanded concept won't work as well, but I don't think we need to get upset about the general idea of free SUNY/CUNY tuition.
I don't remember how much I got, but I know that I received some PELL and/or TAP money when I went to school. Not a completely free ride, but it definitely helped.
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:10 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by GoldenRod
I don't remember how much I got, but I know that I received some PELL and/or TAP money when I went to school. Not a completely free ride, but it definitely helped.
Honestly, my guess is that it is being expanded based on the fact that few people meet the $80k threshold (other than those outside NYC area) and the increase to $125K it make it available more people. However, I haven't researched it and probably won't.
Also, let's not forget that NY is a blue state and free education was part of the Democratic presidential platform. I have a feeling that, considering that we have a Republican led federal government, we will see a lot more initiatives like this in New York based on the premise of more state rights.
To those who disagree with our blue state's programs, I'm sure there are many red states that will be happy to have you.
Message edited 1/5/2017 11:25:41 AM.
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:16 AM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by DiamondGirl
I will preface this by saying I am a Democrat. That said, I do not agree with this.
We have affordable college options. SUNY and CUNY are affordable.the actual tuition for SUNY is @ $6500, no one NEEDS to dorm, I worked full time and earned my masters degree, it is all doable.
I do not think that fully funding anyone's college education will improve or benefit anyone--you want a degree pay something, take a loan again AFFORDABLE not free.
Furthermore IF this does happen the $125 cap is absolute and utter mother fuckinggggg ********, so I will be paying for this but MY KIDS won't be eligible? I will leave NYS so ******* quick
But, you DO agree with it indirectly. As I've been posting, we've been supporting the TAP program in NY for decades, which your tax dollars are used to give FREE college education for certain individuals, and you will never qualify for those benefits, since one of the requirements is an $80k salary cap.
I'm not saying I'm 100% behind this new plan, since I haven't seen the details, but the concept has been around longer than the vast majority of us, and I haven't seen people leaving the state, or society crumbling because of existing grant money, much of which none of us will qualify for.
When is it enough?
I just can't understand how its fair that someone just above the cap has to save a ton to pay for college, at the expense of their own retirement, and someone just below the cap get a free ride for their kids.
I didn't qualify for a penny of "free money" when i went to college, so my options were 90k in loans or money from my parents who were kind enough to work and save, forgo vacations and shiny new cars to help me.
Someone posted above about subsidizing certain less lucrative professions. That I could support. But free money so some don't have to the burden of loans, no thanks!
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:26 AM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by DiamondGirl
I will preface this by saying I am a Democrat. That said, I do not agree with this.
We have affordable college options. SUNY and CUNY are affordable.the actual tuition for SUNY is @ $6500, no one NEEDS to dorm, I worked full time and earned my masters degree, it is all doable.
I do not think that fully funding anyone's college education will improve or benefit anyone--you want a degree pay something, take a loan again AFFORDABLE not free.
Furthermore IF this does happen the $125 cap is absolute and utter mother fuckinggggg ********, so I will be paying for this but MY KIDS won't be eligible? I will leave NYS so ******* quick
But, you DO agree with it indirectly. As I've been posting, we've been supporting the TAP program in NY for decades, which your tax dollars are used to give FREE college education for certain individuals, and you will never qualify for those benefits, since one of the requirements is an $80k salary cap.
I'm not saying I'm 100% behind this new plan, since I haven't seen the details, but the concept has been around longer than the vast majority of us, and I haven't seen people leaving the state, or society crumbling because of existing grant money, much of which none of us will qualify for.
I am well aware of these programs but IT IS NOT the same if you look at the details and cap is totally absurd in both cases
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:26 AM |
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by drpepper318
If you're paying for college (or have loans), you take it more seriously... Now it'll become like public high school... a right instead of a privilege you work hard for.
As a college professor, I strongly disagree with this statement. I have many brilliant students who are interested in the art of learning. They love sitting in the classroom and engaging in conversations about the material.
I'm not trying to portray a utopia. However, I must strongly disagree with the idea that students are driven only or heavily by money and that they lack a desire for learning otherwise. Maybe that is not what you mean, but that is how it is coming across to me.
I do not want to debate, but I do want to defend the students.
At a young age, some students are also not fully aware of the true financial cost. I know that I was not; I was interested in learning for the sake of learning. I'm not saying if that's good or bad, but I am saying it's reality.
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:28 AM |
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Re: Cuomo free college announcement
Posted by JennP
What I don't see mentioned so far is that a major problem with relying on loans is that it discourages people from entering lower paying but rewarding and necessary careers.
I personally don't want to create a society where talented people can't become teachers, social workers, etc. because they won't be able to afford to pay back the loans on their salaries.
I think there is something either in play or in discussion about this. If you worked in certain fields like education or human services there was some way to reduce your loan amounts. It was based on length of time working in the field (maybe 10 years?) and I believe you had to be current on your loan. Not sure what came of it as it didn't apply to me but I did remember some of the younger people at work being excited.
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| Posted 1/5/17 11:30 AM |
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