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The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
I think it's just frustrating when people cling to an opinion that some of us feel is not based on the factual evidence.
For example I know for me it drives me CRAZY when people even mention the President's birth certificate when that issue should be put to bed. IMO the only people who are even questioning it are conspiracy theorists. There was no big reveal there was no fakery, it's over.
It's like on the other thread as well with criticizing Obama for leaving the UN General Assembly, but when I asked whether it's common for delegates to leave the assembly or if they're expected to stay for the entire time, the poster didn't know and didn't care.
I think it exists at every point in the spectrum, people feel a certain way and won't be swayed and will only consider evidence that supports their viewpoint and either deny, ignore, or deem unimportant the evidence which does not. It's human nature.
However, when you come on to a thread that is about political debate, I think the general expectation is going to be that if you defend an opinion, it's going to be with facts rather than just repeating assertions and your right to have an opinion.
I think the reason some people are asked to cite references and others are not is because some people are giving opinions based on facts we all accept to be true. When someone brings up a point that is outside of what most people feel is the truth, it's natural that they would be questioned.
I don't think it's cliqueishness at all. I think it's natural. Part of the problem I see with our current political climate is that people just aren't looking at the world through the same lens. I actually really try to avoid having political debates most of the time because if you're not speaking the same language and hvaen't agreed to the same basic assumptions about the world, it will get nowhere.
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Posted 10/25/12 12:19 PM  |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by JenniferEver
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by JenniferEver
I don't think it's irresponsible.
Do all of the delegates stay for the entire assembly? I'm pretty sure it's common to duck in and out. I don't know for sure and don't know where I could find statistics on the matter.
EVERY president does media appearances. I'm so sick of people saying "oh he was on letterman and our country is at war"...
Part of his job is connect with the people, and yes to campaign. It's a fact that a sitting first term President has to balance his job as President with campaigning.
but he did not meet with any world leaders...I think this is more the point. He declined a meeting with netanyahu. But made time for the view. I don't feel this country is in a position to skip out on talking foreign policy with other world leaders, or building relationships with those leaders...especially to go on a show like the view. I think this makes it seem the president and US by way of representation, priorities are out of whack.
anyway...this is my opinion...obviously i'm not alone in it just as many also share your point of view. it's not something anyone can say is lies or propaganda...it's an opinion based on the presidents actions
Is there any proof that he declined meetings with Netanyahu or any World leaders? The President speaks to world leaders all the time. Isn't it possiblke there was nothing pressing to meet about at that time given the schedules of all involved?
He had no meetings on his "public" calendar. That doesn't mean that no meetings happened, and it appears something did happened because he did make his way back over here after The View...and I don't think it was for sightseeing
nobody knows...we can only speculate the only thing we know for sure is he was there, left after opening speech to be on the view. It's true that all politicians make appearances...however the obama's are the most televised presidency in history. Michelle i don't mind...but for barrack I'd rather a politician "show me the money" rather than talk about what he plans to do on tv.
Listen, I really try hard not to single people out but this is getting ridiculous. You wanted people on the left to match you point for point and they did. You repeatedly backtrack and say "that point I made earlier isn't important" once its been refuted, or change your point or get angry that people are harping on one of your points. I am all for open discussion and debate and I think MANY on here are able to do it. I respect a number of posters here on the right despite our disagreements, however as someone else mentioned, for me personally once you even brought up the birth certificate you lost all credibility, which is why I did not match you back point for point....and you continue to backtrack and change your point and change your idea of what is important when you are presented with information that is counter to yours.
i don't feel that i've done that at all... I never said "the point i made earlier isn't important" you don't know me from a hole in the wall...this is the internet, I don't have all day to further explain in detail and privide citations and proof. I never ASKED people to go toe to toe with me...but I also refuse to be called a liar, a birther, or someone who promotes propaganda. I'm a stay at home mom with a toddler, not a GD reporter. I shouldn't have to come up with citations and proof just for you. who are you? really?
truth is...the past couple of days has shown me why i don't come on this site anymore. This site is nothing more than a group of grown women in cliques (not all...sorry for those of you who don't fit into that category but unfortunately there are quite a few who are cliquey) When someone doesn't agree with you you jump on them and ask for evidence or proof and stick to attacking the same points over and over. It's exhausting. most of what i said was my own personal opinion...why i need to prove what i feel is beyond me. I stopped coming on this site because it was a huge time waster and a waste of life and my engaging in this thread thinking I could have some good discussion just proved I was right the first time. You ladies don't know how to portray your views without being condescending to anyone who doesn't agree and thats a shame. I'm sorry...but my day would be better spent getting out of the house with my son rather than spend hours of my life i'll never get back debating with women who will only take my words and twist them to fit their views...so thats exactly what I'm going to do.
You have done that. More than once you posted about how nobody wanted to respond to your lengthy point-by-point posts - so you did ask people to respond. You also backtracked about the birth certificate ("why are people picking on ONE point that isn't important") AND the UN ("the point isn't that he wasn't there it's that he didn't take meetings" when your original point was about not being there.) Additionally, the majority of the women on this thread whom I agree with and are agreeing with me I don't even know by name, and many of those I disagree with are my friends. So your theory about cliques...doesn't apply (at least to me). If you want to engage in discussion you need to be able to concede points. Have you noticed that most of those who identify as politically on the right have stopped defending you? I am far left but I am willing to concede on points where I am proven wrong, and yet still stand by my beliefs. And please, ask my friends here who are voting for Romney if I am condescending or unable to engage in discussion with them. This is the very first time on LIF I am calling someone out so blatantly, and there is a reason for that.
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| Posted 10/25/12 12:21 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by JenniferEver
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by JenniferEver
I don't think it's irresponsible.
Do all of the delegates stay for the entire assembly? I'm pretty sure it's common to duck in and out. I don't know for sure and don't know where I could find statistics on the matter.
EVERY president does media appearances. I'm so sick of people saying "oh he was on letterman and our country is at war"...
Part of his job is connect with the people, and yes to campaign. It's a fact that a sitting first term President has to balance his job as President with campaigning.
but he did not meet with any world leaders...I think this is more the point. He declined a meeting with netanyahu. But made time for the view. I don't feel this country is in a position to skip out on talking foreign policy with other world leaders, or building relationships with those leaders...especially to go on a show like the view. I think this makes it seem the president and US by way of representation, priorities are out of whack.
anyway...this is my opinion...obviously i'm not alone in it just as many also share your point of view. it's not something anyone can say is lies or propaganda...it's an opinion based on the presidents actions
Is there any proof that he declined meetings with Netanyahu or any World leaders? The President speaks to world leaders all the time. Isn't it possiblke there was nothing pressing to meet about at that time given the schedules of all involved?
He had no meetings on his "public" calendar. That doesn't mean that no meetings happened, and it appears something did happened because he did make his way back over here after The View...and I don't think it was for sightseeing
nobody knows...we can only speculate the only thing we know for sure is he was there, left after opening speech to be on the view. It's true that all politicians make appearances...however the obama's are the most televised presidency in history. Michelle i don't mind...but for barrack I'd rather a politician "show me the money" rather than talk about what he plans to do on tv.
Listen, I really try hard not to single people out but this is getting ridiculous. You wanted people on the left to match you point for point and they did. You repeatedly backtrack and say "that point I made earlier isn't important" once its been refuted, or change your point or get angry that people are harping on one of your points. I am all for open discussion and debate and I think MANY on here are able to do it. I respect a number of posters here on the right despite our disagreements, however as someone else mentioned, for me personally once you even brought up the birth certificate you lost all credibility, which is why I did not match you back point for point....and you continue to backtrack and change your point and change your idea of what is important when you are presented with information that is counter to yours.
i don't feel that i've done that at all... I never said "the point i made earlier isn't important" you don't know me from a hole in the wall...this is the internet, I don't have all day to further explain in detail and privide citations and proof. I never ASKED people to go toe to toe with me...but I also refuse to be called a liar, a birther, or someone who promotes propaganda. I'm a stay at home mom with a toddler, not a GD reporter. I shouldn't have to come up with citations and proof just for you. who are you? really?
truth is...the past couple of days has shown me why i don't come on this site anymore. This site is nothing more than a group of grown women in cliques (not all...sorry for those of you who don't fit into that category but unfortunately there are quite a few who are cliquey) When someone doesn't agree with you you jump on them and ask for evidence or proof and stick to attacking the same points over and over. It's exhausting. most of what i said was my own personal opinion...why i need to prove what i feel is beyond me. I stopped coming on this site because it was a huge time waster and a waste of life and my engaging in this thread thinking I could have some good discussion just proved I was right the first time. You ladies don't know how to portray your views without being condescending to anyone who doesn't agree and thats a shame. I'm sorry...but my day would be better spent getting out of the house with my son rather than spend hours of my life i'll never get back debating with women who will only take my words and twist them to fit their views...so thats exactly what I'm going to do.
You have done that. More than once you posted about how nobody wanted to respond to your lengthy point-by-point posts - so you did ask people to respond. You also backtracked about the birth certificate ("why are people picking on ONE point that isn't important") AND the UN ("the point isn't that he wasn't there it's that he didn't take meetings" when your original point was about not being there.) Additionally, the majority of the women on this thread whom I agree with and are agreeing with me I don't even know by name, and many of those I disagree with are my friends. So your theory about cliques...doesn't apply (at least to me). If you want to engage in discussion you need to be able to concede points. Have you noticed that most of those who identify as politically on the right have stopped defending you? I am far left but I am willing to concede on points where I am proven wrong, and yet still stand by my beliefs. And please, ask my friends here who are voting for Romney if I am condescending or unable to engage in discussion with them. This is the very first time on LIF I am calling someone out so blatantly, and there is a reason for that.
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
Message edited 10/25/2012 4:01:57 PM.
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| Posted 10/25/12 4:01 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Message edited 10/25/2012 7:45:13 PM.
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| Posted 10/25/12 7:34 PM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
Name:
Melody
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by Pumpkin1
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
wow, glad I had a wonderful day...looks like yall are still at it and i wasn't even here! LOL how sad.
where's your fact checking sites when you need them...obama DID skip out on the un general assembly(he was there for the opening speech and then left for the view)...i never said he wasn't born in this country...EVER...and the union DID force my husband to go out and hand out pamphlets for obama...but because you think I will no longer respond you post this saying I'm outwitted? learn to read and get YOUR facts straight before you acuse me of not having mine
Message edited 10/25/2012 8:25:36 PM.
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| Posted 10/25/12 8:21 PM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by Pumpkin1
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
wow, glad I had a wonderful day...looks like yall are still at it and i wasn't even here! LOL how sad.
where's your fact checking sites when you need them...obama DID skip out on the un general assembly(he was there for the opening speech and then left for the view)...i never said he wasn't born in this country...EVER...and the union DID force my husband to go out and hand out pamphlets for obama...but because you think I will no longer respond you post this saying I'm outwitted? learn to read and get YOUR facts straight before you acuse me of not having mine
Really? Did we not go over the General Assembly facts this afternoon? I might as well be pissing in the wind here.
There was no "skipping". He did what all heads of state do. Made a speech then took meetings. Presidents, Prime Ministers and the like, do not usually sit in on every or any speeches. The is what our country and others diplomats do. He also did not open the GA as it had started almost a week before he arrived (September 18th).
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| Posted 10/25/12 10:39 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by Pumpkin1
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
wow, glad I had a wonderful day...looks like yall are still at it and i wasn't even here! LOL how sad.
where's your fact checking sites when you need them...obama DID skip out on the un general assembly(he was there for the opening speech and then left for the view)...i never said he wasn't born in this country...EVER...and the union DID force my husband to go out and hand out pamphlets for obama...but because you think I will no longer respond you post this saying I'm outwitted? learn to read and get YOUR facts straight before you acuse me of not having mine
Right.... WE are sad. WE can't read.  
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| Posted 10/25/12 11:37 PM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
Name:
Melody
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by Pumpkin1
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
wow, glad I had a wonderful day...looks like yall are still at it and i wasn't even here! LOL how sad.
where's your fact checking sites when you need them...obama DID skip out on the un general assembly(he was there for the opening speech and then left for the view)...i never said he wasn't born in this country...EVER...and the union DID force my husband to go out and hand out pamphlets for obama...but because you think I will no longer respond you post this saying I'm outwitted? learn to read and get YOUR facts straight before you acuse me of not having mine
Really? Did we not go over the General Assembly facts this afternoon? I might as well be pissing in the wind here.
There was no "skipping". He did what all heads of state do. Made a speech then took meetings. Presidents, Prime Ministers and the like, do not usually sit in on every or any speeches. The is what our country and others diplomats do. He also did not open the GA as it had started almost a week before he arrived (September 18th).
skip out (on someone or something)
Fig. to sneak away from someone or some event; to leave someone or an event suddenly or in secret.
its a figure of speech...it doesn't mean to miss in entirety. to clarify even further...he would be in the "leaving suddenly" category...not the sneaking.
as for the meetings...can you enlighten me (not meant in a snarky way) because every article I've read says he took NO meetings...maybe there is something I missed? but I did read quite a few different articles on this. I know he made the speech, left for the view, and was in NY (not necessarily at the UNGA) for 24 hours...but there is NO mention of a return to the UN in the articles. I do know he attended a UN reception the night before...thats about all i've seen reported on the issue.
Message edited 10/26/2012 12:12:21 AM.
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| Posted 10/25/12 11:57 PM |
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by Pumpkin1
And I am in no clique and do not know the poster I quoted. Your opinions are being stated as if they are facts, events that occurred, not as if it is your opinion that Obama ditched out on UN meetings or isn't born in this country or that unions force people to promote certain candidates, you stated those things as facts and each of them was cited as incorrect and when it was you called us all sort of "bully" type names. I'll say it--you were outwitted here and all you can do is stomp for feet and scream "not fair" .
wow, glad I had a wonderful day...looks like yall are still at it and i wasn't even here! LOL how sad.
where's your fact checking sites when you need them...obama DID skip out on the un general assembly(he was there for the opening speech and then left for the view)...i never said he wasn't born in this country...EVER...and the union DID force my husband to go out and hand out pamphlets for obama...but because you think I will no longer respond you post this saying I'm outwitted? learn to read and get YOUR facts straight before you acuse me of not having mine
Really? Did we not go over the General Assembly facts this afternoon? I might as well be pissing in the wind here.
There was no "skipping". He did what all heads of state do. Made a speech then took meetings. Presidents, Prime Ministers and the like, do not usually sit in on every or any speeches. The is what our country and others diplomats do. He also did not open the GA as it had started almost a week before he arrived (September 18th).
skip out (on someone or something)
Fig. to sneak away from someone or some event; to leave someone or an event suddenly or in secret.
OMG seriously, let it go.
We can all agree to disagree. Clearly not all of OUR facts are always backed by credibilty. And our personal views on a person or party are going to skew the way we interpet certain situations and so called facts. It is a fact of life and most def a fact of election process.
I do not know you personally and could give 2 shits about who you vote for. At this point you are beating a dead, decaying, in full rigor, horse.
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| Posted 10/26/12 12:04 AM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
Name:
Melody
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by myboysmyheart
OMG seriously, let it go.
We can all agree to disagree. Clearly not all of OUR facts are always backed by credibilty. And our personal views on a person or party are going to skew the way we interpet certain situations and so called facts. It is a fact of life and most def a fact of election process.
I do not know you personally and could give 2 shits about who you vote for. At this point you are beating a dead, decaying, in full rigor, horse.
I wasn't posting that for drama...jesus christ! i can't say ANYTHING on this thread. she clearly misunderstood the meaning of "skipped out" and thought it to mean that he was never there. so i gave her the definition so she could understand the true context of what i said and not feel like she was pissing in the wind...I read and understood every word she said earlier. It was 100% not meant to be snarky. I'm not as dumb as some of you think. I don't see you asking the other ladies beating the same dead horse to let it go.
Message edited 10/26/2012 12:29:11 AM.
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| Posted 10/26/12 12:24 AM |
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by myboysmyheart
OMG seriously, let it go.
We can all agree to disagree. Clearly not all of OUR facts are always backed by credibilty. And our personal views on a person or party are going to skew the way we interpet certain situations and so called facts. It is a fact of life and most def a fact of election process.
I do not know you personally and could give 2 shits about who you vote for. At this point you are beating a dead, decaying, in full rigor, horse.
I wasn't posting that for drama...jesus christ! i can't say ANYTHING on this thread. she clearly misunderstood the meaning of "skipped out" and thought it to mean that he was never there. so i gave her the definition so she could understand the true context of what i said and not feel like she was pissing in the wind...I read and understood every word she said earlier. I'm not as dumb as some of you think. I don't see you asking the other ladies beating the same dead horse to let it go.
Im not saying you are dumb. I do not know you. I just thought it was silly that you posted a definition tha I can pretty soundly say that most of us know. I did not mean to insult you or gang up on you. Not my style. I am just simply saying, it is an election, not all of us see eye to eye.
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| Posted 10/26/12 12:28 AM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
Name:
Melody
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Re: The Official LIF 3rd Presidential Debate Thread!!!
Posted by myboysmyheart
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by myboysmyheart
OMG seriously, let it go.
We can all agree to disagree. Clearly not all of OUR facts are always backed by credibilty. And our personal views on a person or party are going to skew the way we interpet certain situations and so called facts. It is a fact of life and most def a fact of election process.
I do not know you personally and could give 2 shits about who you vote for. At this point you are beating a dead, decaying, in full rigor, horse.
I wasn't posting that for drama...jesus christ! i can't say ANYTHING on this thread. she clearly misunderstood the meaning of "skipped out" and thought it to mean that he was never there. so i gave her the definition so she could understand the true context of what i said and not feel like she was pissing in the wind...I read and understood every word she said earlier. I'm not as dumb as some of you think. I don't see you asking the other ladies beating the same dead horse to let it go.
Im not saying you are dumb. I do not know you. I just thought it was silly that you posted a definition tha I can pretty soundly say that most of us know. I did not mean to insult you or gang up on you. Not my style. I am just simply saying, it is an election, not all of us see eye to eye.
sorry...this thread got the best of me bc I don't like being called a liar. Anyone who knows me IRL knows I'm the furthest thing from that. the whole union thing was upsetting bc it happened to my husband...not like i was telling a story i heard from a friend of a friend on facebook or something. so to have someone say that was false was a total slap in the face and it REALLY fired me up.
the "birther" thing...I'll take credit for that. I didn't have all the info...but I never said I thought obama wasn't a citizen or wasn't born here. I'm not like that! I never felt he should have to show us his birth certificate. My ONLY reason for bringing it up was to ask why they would release such a thing...and what the agenda would be behind putting out a false document that they never really even HAD to put out...it didn't make sense. I honestly at the time believed the whole "layers" means it's been tampered with reasoning. I believed it bc I've used Photoshop...I know how layers work...what I DIDN'T know was that scanning programs have the capability to create layers too...that definitely changes things. I learned something new.
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| Posted 10/26/12 12:46 AM |
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