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yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
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So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I am reading that Michael Moore paints a picture of the NHS as being as close to perfect you can get...
Can you guys elaborate on the movie for me. As I have a toddler, the odds of me getting out to see it before he turns 18 are slim to none. I am reading about it on some Ex-pat boards and I want to know more from you guys.
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Posted 7/15/07 2:55 PM  |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I just watched this last night, that's what prompted my "why do you love living in the US" thread. Because I feel like all I hear lately is the downsides and I needed a little boost of morale Notice I didn't add anything
BTW, we watched it online. Michael Moore put out a bunch of links to his movie because he didn't care if people watched it for free, but recently, the movie studios made him take the links down and take back his statement about not caring if people watched it for free Luckily we downloaded it before he changed his mind
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| Posted 7/15/07 4:28 PM |
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Chai77
Brighter days ahead
Member since 4/07 7364 total posts
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I did not feel that Michael Moore presented the NHS in particular as being perfect or close to it. Instead, he showed several different countries' socialized health systems, like France, Cuba, and Canada, as well as the UK. His point was let's learn from these different systems and improve upon what they are doing right to make a new health system in the US. Instead of what we have now, which is coporate profiteering at the expense of our health.
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| Posted 7/15/07 4:54 PM |
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yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Thanks, I was reading that on an ex-pat board and I was wondering if it was true...
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| Posted 7/15/07 5:09 PM |
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JustJack
:)
Member since 2/06 2041 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by Chai77
I did not feel that Michael Moore presented the NHS in particular as being perfect or close to it. Instead, he showed several different countries' socialized health systems, like France, Cuba, and Canada, as well as the UK. His point was let's learn from these different systems and improve upon what they are doing right to make a new health system in the US. Instead of what we have now, which is coporate profiteering at the expense of our health.
I agree, obviously nothing is perfect, but what we have is far from it.
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| Posted 7/15/07 5:10 PM |
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randella
Love my little man
Member since 8/05 16290 total posts
Name:
Randi
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I saw the movie last night and was incredibly appalled by it. I posted last night with a link to MM's site and signed petitions, etc. to do SOMETHING to make a difference.
In terms of the NHS and in general, what was discussed in the movie..
The NHS was formed in 1948 as a sort of reaction to the state of the country after WWII-- the people of GB banning together for the common good. They compared it to the 2 hours of what NY'ers felt on 9/11-- but that that had lasted several years in the Uk because of the war. Everyone in the country was bond to each other by unfortunate circumstance-- and wanted to make a difference. Part of this difference was free health care for everyone.
The first person they showed in the hospitall in the UK was a pregnant woman. He asked how long she would have off of work-- she was surprised to learn that Americans do not get 6 months paid time, and another 6 months unpaid. In fact, she thought it was laughable as that is what she did. They showed another couple who had just had a baby-- laughed again when MM asked how much it cost them to have the baby at the hospital.
All in all-- people thought he was crazy-- and that the cashier gave people money back if they needed to pay for their own transport was just really interesting.
He also went to the home of a cute young doctor. He enforced the fact that this guy was paid by the gov't and since the gov't provides free healthcare, you would assume he didn't make much money-- not the case. He is fairly well off. So, even the people with the crazy educations will still have a successful career, and they are giving incentives if they make more people well-- as opposed to the US, when the insurance companies give incentives to doctors if they are able to find a way to deny a patient something they need-- cause it simply costs too much money.
I'd be interested to learn what taxes are like-- because of the free healtcare. I also saw a friend today who refuses to see the movie because she has been reading things that saw that MM depicts a skewed perspective. I disagree with her-- but, hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
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| Posted 7/15/07 7:59 PM |
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Ronkonkomonga
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 544 total posts
Name:
We Three Kings...
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I saw it - and LOVED it. I don't go to see many movies anymore because most are so poorly written or ridiculous that it's insulting. But I made sure that I saw SICKO the day that it opened.
This was brilliant. It was a film that we are still talking about. Without giving too much away - you see what its like to believe that you have health care, yet be denied coverage. It explores the idea of National Health, and takes a look at how it is functioning in other countries. The film never questioned the quality of care in the US - it questioned our access to it.
He introduces you to people who work for large insurance companies who got raises and promotions for denying Americans treatment that would save their lives. It highlighted how middle class American lives are being ruined by health care costs that aren't covered.
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| Posted 7/15/07 8:58 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
I agree that there has to be a better way, but I think that he totally skewed how "good" European health care. As someone whose parents live in Italy 6 months out of the year and who has travelled extensively, I know that my relatives in Italy would rather use private physicians/hospitals because the care is a million times better. You hear of horror health mishaps in these public hospitals, and they don't have the ability to sue for every minute thing like here. My father always tells us, "if something happens to me when I am in EUrope, get me on the first plane back to America" In addition, in many of these countries, the taxes are very high, so health care is not necessarily free. I do agree that the US is the worst as far as maternity leave. I watched some 20/20 program where it said we were the third worst in the world for maternity leave. even Iran and Iraq were better than we were.
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| Posted 7/15/07 11:23 PM |
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Gertyrae
Peace out Homies!
Member since 5/05 20046 total posts
Name:
Gerty ®
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by mrsej
I agree that there has to be a better way, but I think that he totally skewed how "good" European health care. As someone whose parents live in Italy 6 months out of the year and who has travelled extensively, I know that my relatives in Italy would rather use private physicians/hospitals because the care is a million times better. You hear of horror health mishaps in these public hospitals, and they don't have the ability to sue for every minute thing like here. My father always tells us, "if something happens to me when I am in EUrope, get me on the first plane back to America" In addition, in many of these countries, the taxes are very high, so health care is not necessarily free. I do agree that the US is the worst as far as maternity leave. I watched some 20/20 program where it said we were the third worst in the world for maternity leave. even Iran and Iraq were better than we were.
This is my opinion also...I have a friend who got very sick in Ireland and they were giving him pain meds. He finally just flew back here and ended up having to have emergency surgery for cellulitis.
My biggest problem with Michael Moore is he only shows you his side of the story. We don't know how many people he talked to in order to get the interviews in the movie. We only know what he puts on the screen, unless we do further research ourselves.
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| Posted 7/15/07 11:33 PM |
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by randella
I'd be interested to learn what taxes are like-- because of the free healtcare. I also saw a friend today who refuses to see the movie because she has been reading things that saw that MM depicts a skewed perspective. I disagree with her-- but, hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I want to see this movie...
In Ireland the personal income tax rate for singles is:
Tax base (EUR) Tax (%)
0 - €34,000 20%
34,001 and over 41% on base exceeding €34,000 (approx $46,800 USD)
Married Taxpayers (two incomes)
Personal tax credits of €3,520
PAYE tax credit of €1760
Income Tax after subtracting deductions from total pay:
20% on the first €68,000 ($93,600 USD)
41% on the balance
so if you make a nice salary its high.
right now the exchange rate is 1 euro = $1.37 USD
Message edited 7/16/2007 1:37:58 AM.
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| Posted 7/16/07 1:33 AM |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by Gertyrae
Posted by mrsej
I agree that there has to be a better way, but I think that he totally skewed how "good" European health care. As someone whose parents live in Italy 6 months out of the year and who has travelled extensively, I know that my relatives in Italy would rather use private physicians/hospitals because the care is a million times better. You hear of horror health mishaps in these public hospitals, and they don't have the ability to sue for every minute thing like here. My father always tells us, "if something happens to me when I am in EUrope, get me on the first plane back to America" In addition, in many of these countries, the taxes are very high, so health care is not necessarily free. I do agree that the US is the worst as far as maternity leave. I watched some 20/20 program where it said we were the third worst in the world for maternity leave. even Iran and Iraq were better than we were.
My biggest problem with Michael Moore is he only shows you his side of the story. We don't know how many people he talked to in order to get the interviews in the movie. We only know what he puts on the screen, unless we do further research ourselves.
I have to agree with the fact that Michael Moore does a lot of doctoring to his documentaries to be able to present his point of view, however, my husband and I were talking about this and we said that it doesn't really matter because he gets people thinking, you know? I really would like to see and hear the other side of all of this, the pros and cons, but I'll do that on my own now instead.
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| Posted 7/16/07 7:44 AM |
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Emily
Kasey & Me! Lurves it!
Member since 7/06 8703 total posts
Name:
STBHC
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
UHC has its pros and cons, no I did learn that from Michael Moore but I did see his movie. In Scandinavian countries they pay approximately 40%- 60% of their paychecks in taxes. People have decided not to work, so not only is there free health care and a really long maternity leave, there is also a high welfare rate. Michael Moore forgot to paint that picture in his movie.
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| Posted 7/16/07 8:01 AM |
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KGools
Happy
Member since 9/06 9532 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by mrsej
I agree that there has to be a better way, but I think that he totally skewed how "good" European health care. As someone whose parents live in Italy 6 months out of the year and who has travelled extensively, I know that my relatives in Italy would rather use private physicians/hospitals because the care is a million times better. You hear of horror health mishaps in these public hospitals, and they don't have the ability to sue for every minute thing like here. My father always tells us, "if something happens to me when I am in EUrope, get me on the first plane back to America" In addition, in many of these countries, the taxes are very high, so health care is not necessarily free. I do agree that the US is the worst as far as maternity leave. I watched some 20/20 program where it said we were the third worst in the world for maternity leave. even Iran and Iraq were better than we were.
ITA.
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| Posted 7/16/07 9:27 AM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
Name:
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Message edited 7/13/2009 2:14:44 PM.
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| Posted 7/16/07 9:39 AM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: So, for those who have seen Sicko...
Posted by cpanyc
Posted by mrsej
I do agree that the US is the worst as far as maternity leave. I watched some 20/20 program where it said we were the third worst in the world for maternity leave. even Iran and Iraq were better than we were.
I would much rather have the US's maternity leave than be a woman in Iran or Iraq. That 20/20 program did not present a very good overall picture IMO. To say "oh they have it better", I don't agree. Sure those woman get a year off-but how are they treated by their own society in general? 
Good point - you are right that I would not live in Iran or Iraq, but you do have to think, for a couple of nations that totally have no regard for women's rights, they got that maternity leave thing right!
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| Posted 7/16/07 2:16 PM |
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