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irishbaby
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/08 582 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Yes ,I agree.
This goverment thinks they can scare and manipulate their "minions" and play on people's unchecked egos' and emotions.
They don't think that we are evolved enough to make educated,rational decisions for our country. Sadly for the most part I think they are right on the money.
Well this surf is telling them where to stick it this year.......
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Posted 9/12/08 1:08 PM  |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
how this is being characterized...I can't. 
fact checker...born alive
On the Record
While we don't have a record of Obama's 2003 comments on SB 1082, he did express his objection to the 2001 and 2002 bills.
Obama, Senate floor, 2002: [A]dding a – an additional doctor who then has to be called in an emergency situation to come in and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an abortion. … I think it’s important to understand that this issue ultimately is about abortion and not live births.
Obama, Senate floor, 2001: Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – a child, a nine-month-old – child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute.
Obama's critics are free to speculate on his motives for voting against the bills, and postulate a lack of concern for babies' welfare. But his stated reasons for opposing "born-alive" bills have to do with preserving abortion rights, a position he is known to support and has never hidden.
Thanks. I was just going to quote this but you beat me to it!
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:08 PM |
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tommy2
LIF Infant
Member since 3/08 193 total posts
Name:
Tommy
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by mrsej
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by DaniRella
I'll take shocked over what I was any day of the week...
I was EATING when I found this out - I literally could not continue eating - that is how sick to my stomach I was over this thought -- and the thought of a nurse rocking the baby and holding it until it died because she felt bad.
I really can't even talk about it, honestly. It took all I had to even mention it this one time - It is very very very upsetting to me.
I have to say that I'm not familiar with this one--do you have any links on it-I'd like to read up on it.
I *saw* it - I do very little reading online because it is difficult to tell the difference between, sometimes, reputable sources and "blog" style sources that are just out of the realm of reality. But I actually saw it on TV - read an article (in print - not online) about it and saw the nurse (who was on trial as a witness) give her testimony. A lot of people do NOT know that this existed.
It makes me sick to even describe it - I'm sure you can find it online by doing a search - I can't even attempt that because a friend of mine did and found disturbing pics - I don't even want to TRY that. I know what I need to know. Sorry I can't be more help  I am a wuss when it comes to this.
I saw it too - I am a legal geek - interested in this stuff. It is all over the internet as well. I am a little surprised that it didn't get more press as well. It is a little disturbing. He kept saying that the bill would be "anti-abortion" and that it would regulate a woman's right to have an abortion. I could never understand what he meant by that b/c it is just giving the baby medical treatment and care in the last hours of his/her life. He said that it would create a "burden" on a mother that did not want the child to begin with. very weird and cold. I also did not like how he called anything less than a full term baby 9months, a fetus.
I'm not surprised it didn't get more press - who controls the press?? Or the majority of it?
How is a bill protecting/helping/aiding/giving medical treatment to a live baby have anything to do with abortion? Oy! It is just his way around saying he thinks that doing this is OK - obviously he does otherwise he would have voted for it like EVERYONE else did.
Oh lordy - this is why I can't search on this topic, discuss it too much, etc. because it literally makes me nautious.
This stuff doesn't get press because god forbid you speak out against the Messiah! How many people are still unaware of his ties w/ william Ayers i wonder. Heres a small clip about the Abortion issue.Obama/Abortion
Ayers/Obama
Do you know enough about Obama?
Message edited 9/12/2008 1:15:36 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:09 PM |
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irishbaby
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/08 582 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Sorry -
Yes I agree with Danirella about getting Obama on again and asking him hard questions (as you see I posted how dissappointed I was in Barbra Walters and her clear unbiased treatment of the Senator on today's show).
I would like them to have Mr. Obama on again and ask him SEVERAL of the hard line questions I feel they served up to JM. Including harder questions on his stand on abortion early or late term.
On another note according to what Elizabeth spoke on at an engagement about a week ago - the Obama's came in to the View with a list of "untochable" topics that the McCain's did not I wonder if that had anything to do with the harder line of questioning today?
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:17 PM |
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DeniseMarie
<3
Member since 8/07 10682 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
Not - tell us why you were the ONLY person out of 300 to vote NO to the "born-alive infant protection act" which makes me sick to my stomach -- and excusing that decision by saying the wording between the state and federal documents was different -- meanwhile, his people were responsible for making that wording on his level hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE.
Flame away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Right Obama is on record for wanting to put babies in a closet & let him die. I was shocked to when he blurted that out.
what?? is there somewhere where I can hear the exact statement? I am curious
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:21 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by irishbaby
Sorry -
Yes I agree with Danirella about getting Obama on again and asking him hard questions (as you see I posted how dissappointed I was in Barbra Walters and her clear unbiased treatment of the Senator on today's show).
I would like them to have Mr. Obama on again and ask him SEVERAL of the hard line questions I feel they served up to JM. Including harder questions on his stand on abortion early or late term.
On another note according to what Elizabeth spoke on at an engagement about a week ago - the Obama's came in to the View with a list of "untochable" topics that the McCain's did not I wonder if that had anything to do with the harder line of questioning today?
ITA they should treat Obama the same way they treated McCain--don't pull punches with one and not the other. But Elisabeth was talking just about Michelle Obama in her little speech - not about Barack
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:22 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DeniseMarie
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
Not - tell us why you were the ONLY person out of 300 to vote NO to the "born-alive infant protection act" which makes me sick to my stomach -- and excusing that decision by saying the wording between the state and federal documents was different -- meanwhile, his people were responsible for making that wording on his level hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE.
Flame away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right Obama is on record for wanting to put babies in a closet & let him die. I was shocked to when he blurted that out.
what?? is there somewhere where I can hear the exact statement? I am curious
I was being sarcastic (sorry doesn't translate on message boards). See above link to factchecker.org on the analysis of what transpired.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:24 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by irishbaby
Sorry -
Yes I agree with Danirella about getting Obama on again and asking him hard questions (as you see I posted how dissappointed I was in Barbra Walters and her clear unbiased treatment of the Senator on today's show).
I would like them to have Mr. Obama on again and ask him SEVERAL of the hard line questions I feel they served up to JM. Including harder questions on his stand on abortion early or late term.
On another note according to what Elizabeth spoke on at an engagement about a week ago - the Obama's came in to the View with a list of "untochable" topics that the McCain's did not I wonder if that had anything to do with the harder line of questioning today?
yes, i agree! and that isn't right.
there shouldn't be limits or "untouchable" topics - at least mccain went in there like a man, prepared to defend how he feels and answer the hard questions.
but, this just goes to show you how bias a show like that can be when they are asking obama about picking out puppies (lol just ridiculous) and mccain - barbra was SHAKING lol she was so pressing and worked up. 
thanks for clarifying - i appreciate that! 
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:27 PM |
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DeniseMarie
<3
Member since 8/07 10682 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:27 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DeniseMarie
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
If you read what transpired it will make more sense.
Melissa brought up McCain on the view. A few posters stated that they asked him some serious questions, were harsher to him than they had to be, twisted his words, didn't let him finish, etc. I mean, they wanted to put him up to the firing squad. That's all fine and dandy - I'm sure McCain figured it would be this way.
Then, someone stated that they felt it was unfair b/c they did NOT do that type of questioning and tactics to Obama. I said, I would like for Obama to come back on and them ask him REAL questions - HARSH questions - like about, for example, his stance on the born-alive protection act -- something A LOT of people do NOT know about. but noooo they asked him about his PUPPY CHOICE instead. 
That was my beef. That's all.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:31 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DeniseMarie
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
basically, for the sake of this argument, a fetus that is being aborted lives and is "born" without any chance of being viable. it dies outside of the womb.
they wanted to enact a law giving that fetus rights and enact other requirments for an abortion procedure.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:31 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DeniseMarie
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
Late term or 'induced" abortions---and sometimes the babies survive the procedure and therefore they are "born alive" even though they will likely not survive for long outside the womb. Before the Federal Born Alive act bill was signed....many times the babies were just put aside as they waited for them to die. i.e. -- the horriffic examples of the babies being put in a closet or garbages waiting for them to die. under the Federal law that was passed...the babies, if born alive, are immediately protected by law and treated as human beings and they must be given the treatment and right to live.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:32 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by DeniseMarie
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
If you read what transpired it will make more sense.
Melissa brought up McCain on the view. A few posters stated that they asked him some serious questions, were harsher to him than they had to be, twisted his words, didn't let him finish, etc. I mean, they wanted to put him up to the firing squad. That's all fine and dandy - I'm sure McCain figured it would be this way.
Then, someone stated that they felt it was unfair b/c they did NOT do that type of questioning and tactics to Obama. I said, I would like for Obama to come back on and them ask him REAL questions - HARSH questions - like about, for example, his stance on the born-alive protection act -- something A LOT of people do NOT know about. but noooo they asked him about his PUPPY CHOICE instead.
That was my beef. That's all.
considering Obama did O'Reilly, I think we're even. 
do people consider the view real "journalism" anyway???
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:32 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Obama's site discusses the Born Alive legislation
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:32 PM |
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irishbaby
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/08 582 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
ITA they should treat Obama the same way they treated McCain--don't pull punches with one and not the other. But Elisabeth was talking just about Michelle Obama in her little speech - not about Barack
Yes, thank you for clearing that up - I thought it was when they were both on together, but now that I think of it they were on sepreatly (sp) if I remember correctly.
Do I watch the View too much? 
ETA - my spelling is evil - and my spell check is not working. Please try not to judge (just this once) ......
Message edited 9/12/2008 1:37:01 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:35 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by DeniseMarie
Can someone please explain what "born alive" means in terms of this discussion? thanks!
Late term or 'induced" abortions---and sometimes the babies survive the procedure and therefore they are "born alive" even though they will likely not survive for long outside the womb. Before the Federal Born Alive act bill was signed....many times the babies were just put aside as they waited for them to die. i.e. -- the horriffic examples of the babies being put in a closet or garbages waiting for them to die. under the Federal law that was passed...the babies, if born alive, are immediately protected by law and treated as human beings and they must be given the treatment and right to live.
Yes, it gives them a fighting chance to live if they are supposed to. If they are going to die, then they are going to die with medical treatment one way or another -- but, if they are able to live we give them a fighting chance to do that rather then letting them die in a closet and treating a human being, a BORN human being (at that point) as "medical waste" -- there are references to babies as "medical waste". It is just sickening.
Obama did not vote FOR this law - like everyone else did. I don't understand this and he does not give valid, clear or reasonable answers to defend it -- the FEW times he was asked.
My point, again, was that if McCain should face the tough questions - Obama should also. However, his touch question was "miniature schnauzer or a toy poodle??"
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:36 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
considering Obama did O'Reilly, I think we're even.
do people consider the view real "journalism" anyway???
This is my point. It isn't real. So, should we really be discussing what took place on there today as valid?
We agree Ophelia!!!! 
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:38 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Obama did not vote FOR this law - like everyone else did. I don't understand this and he does not give valid, clear or reasonable answers to defend it -- the FEW times he was asked.
to this point, I will help you out again. you may not agree with it, but it is VALID to him.
Obama, Senate floor, 2002: [A]dding a – an additional doctor who then has to be called in an emergency situation to come in and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an abortion. … I think it’s important to understand that this issue ultimately is about abortion and not live births.
Obama, Senate floor, 2001: Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – a child, a nine-month-old – child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:38 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by irishlass
Yes, thank you for clearing that up - I thought it was when they were both on together, but now that I think of it they were on sepreatly (sp) if I remember correctly.
Do I watch the View too much?
ETA - my spelling is evil - and my spell check is not working. Please try not to judge (just this once) ......
haha -- trustme i watch the View waaay too much. but its because we have a tv here in my office. (just my dad and i work together and he likes having tv for when its slow) -- we watch the view everyday!
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:40 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
I don't understand this and he does not give valid, clear or reasonable answers to defend it -- the FEW times he was asked.
Obama Said He Would Have Supported Federal Born Alive Legislation, A Move Pro-Choice Groups Would Not Have Opposed Because It Made a Distinction Between a Fetus in Utero and Child That is Born
Obama Said He Would Have Supported Federal Born-Alive Legislation. The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama said that had he been in the US Senate two years ago, he would have voted for the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, even though he voted against a state version of the proposal. The federal version was approved; the state version was not. Both measures required that if a fetus survived an abortion procedure, it must be considered a person. Backers argued it was necessary to protect a fetus if it showed signs of life after being separated from its mother…the difference between the state and federal versions, Obama explained, was that the state measure lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade." Chicago Tribune, 10/4/04
Source
Whether you agree with it or not, I think that's a clear, valid, reasonable answer.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:42 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
this is where we disagree.
b/c saying the issue is about abortions when the baby IS born -- it is a live human being is just not valid to me. he keeps skirting the issue and saying "it is about abortion" when it is not - the baby is a living, breathing human being at that point.
if he really feels it is still OK to allow the baby to die -- and not "burden" the mother which is just a terrible thing to say -- if he feels that is OK - that's fine, just admit it. i wish he would just say, instead of coming up with all these fancy avoiding comments - just say "i still feel, even after the baby survives the abortion attempt, that they should not be allowed to live" -- but he can't say that, b/c that is HORRIFIC.
but, this is my opinion, of course.
anyone who wants to is entitled to disagree and stand by his 'answers'.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:43 PM |
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SuchIsLife
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/05 689 total posts
Name:
no
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
I *saw* it - I do very little reading online because it is difficult to tell the difference between, sometimes, reputable sources and "blog" style sources that are just out of the realm of reality. But I actually saw it on TV - read an article (in print - not online) about it and saw the nurse (who was on trial as a witness) give her testimony. A lot of people do NOT know that this existed.
It makes me sick to even describe it - I'm sure you can find it online by doing a search - I can't even attempt that because a friend of mine did and found disturbing pics - I don't even want to TRY that. I know what I need to know. Sorry I can't be more help I am a wuss when it comes to this.
I did a search. You can read about it here. There are no pictures, just straight facts. No hysterical language about "babies dying in closets".
Obama--voting record
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:44 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by SuchIsLife
Posted by DaniRella
I *saw* it - I do very little reading online because it is difficult to tell the difference between, sometimes, reputable sources and "blog" style sources that are just out of the realm of reality. But I actually saw it on TV - read an article (in print - not online) about it and saw the nurse (who was on trial as a witness) give her testimony. A lot of people do NOT know that this existed.
It makes me sick to even describe it - I'm sure you can find it online by doing a search - I can't even attempt that because a friend of mine did and found disturbing pics - I don't even want to TRY that. I know what I need to know. Sorry I can't be more help I am a wuss when it comes to this.
I did a search. You can read about it here. There are no pictures, just straight facts. No hysterical language about "babies dying in closets".
Obama--voting record
I know enough about it for myself - I stated that I don't like to do searches or discuss it in depth because it is upsetting to me on a moral level. Thank you for being smug in the way you are writing about a topic that truly, deeply upsets me.
Message edited 9/12/2008 1:46:19 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:46 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
I know enough about it for myself - I stated that I don't like to do searches or discuss it in depth because it is upsetting to me on a moral level. Thank you for being smug in the way you are writing about a topic that truly, deeply upsets me.
I would just like to suggest to you that if you researched in on NON right to life websites, you wouldn't be greeted with graphic photos/videos or dramatically written stories.
propaganda all on sides does no one any good and shapes our thoughts on emotion, rather than fact.
and Dani, this response
anyone who wants to is entitled to disagree and stand by his 'answers'.
is not exactly saintly. just b/c you don't agree with his answers don't make them less real or valid. that is unfair too.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:52 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Blazesyth
Posted by DaniRella
I don't understand this and he does not give valid, clear or reasonable answers to defend it -- the FEW times he was asked.
Obama Said He Would Have Supported Federal Born Alive Legislation, A Move Pro-Choice Groups Would Not Have Opposed Because It Made a Distinction Between a Fetus in Utero and Child That is Born
Obama Said He Would Have Supported Federal Born-Alive Legislation. The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama said that had he been in the US Senate two years ago, he would have voted for the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, even though he voted against a state version of the proposal. The federal version was approved; the state version was not. Both measures required that if a fetus survived an abortion procedure, it must be considered a person. Backers argued it was necessary to protect a fetus if it showed signs of life after being separated from its mother…the difference between the state and federal versions, Obama explained, was that the state measure lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade." Chicago Tribune, 10/4/04
Source
Whether you agree with it or not, I think that's a clear, valid, reasonable answer.
The problem was that he said that he would vote for the bill if followed the federal bill's language, but he was the one that stopped his committee from adding this language. Every pro-choice organization agreed that this bill would have no effect on R v. W - it had been argued numerous times on the floor. It is hard to start educating oneself about the bill now from the internet - i remember speaking about this with judges at the time this was going on and everyone, including the liberal judges, were blown away at his vote - one said "this is going to come back and haunt him".
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:53 PM |
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