Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

My 4-month-old used to STTN. Now she's up anywhere from one to four times at night! She's also a terrible napper. I'm reading everything I can on the subject, but nothing seems to address the problems that we are up against.

1. We can often get her to sleep by nursing or rocking, but 75% of the time she will wake up SCREAMING as soon as we try to put her down, causing us to start the whole process over again, or attempting to let her soothe herself (more on that in a minute). The times when she doesn't wake up immediately, there's a good chance that in 20-30 minutes she'll be up. This is true for nighttime as well as nap time. It's frustrating at night, but eventually she'll fall asleep for a few hours. During the day I just can't figure out how to balance trying to get her to nap with the amount of time she actually naps... Is it worth it to nurse her, rock her for 15 minutes, put her down for 20 minutes, rock her again, then let her cry in hopes of falling asleep again for a little while longer?

2. We've attempted to let her cry it out, which is what our doctor suggested, but the only time we've let her cry for a long time, when we finally went in to check on her, she'd done a major #2. No wonder she couldn't sleep! Every time we've tried since then, we check on her regularly, because she tends to pee when she's upset and crying. And almost every time we check, she's wet. How can we expect her to fall asleep if she constantly has a wet/dirty diaper?

3. I have no idea how to tell if she really needs to eat when she wakes up, if she just needs comfort, or if she's waking out of habit. She seems hungry to me, but how can she really be that hungry? And she falls asleep after nursing for only a few minutes sometimes, so I feel like maybe she wasn't hungry... until she wakes up again in a few hours to eat more.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Do you think she is getting enough when she nurses? If she's screaming out of hunger, have you considered supplementing with formula? Is it possible she's going thru a growth spurt and cluster feeding (which would explain why she gets up screaming to eat after only a little while).

Good luck!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Here's what we did....

Up until he was 6 months old, we did anything and everything to help Loey sleep. We held him, rocked him, used a pacifier, coslept, BF'd to sleep, sang to him, walked with him, used the swing, etc. We did this for naps and nighttime. We "spoiled" him I guess you could say.

We wanted to give him the best environment where he felt comfortable, secure and loved.

At 6 months old when we felt he was really old enough to start soothing himself, we did CIO and put him in his crib to sleep. It worked like a charm and he started to sleep on his own for nighttime (STTN at least 10 hours) and for naps (takes 2 naps, 2 hours each). I personally feel that he felt comfortable and secure enough to sleep on his own knowing we'd be there if he needed us. IDK if it was the "right" thing to do and it wasn't by any book or anything, we just did what felt right to us.

YES, this meant that during those first 6 months, we coslept... and sometimes he'd wake up 10 times/night to nurse. YES, this meant we held him and rocked him for practically all of his naps... picked him up from his swing when he was crying and didn't want to nap in there, etc.

Arounfd 4 months is typically the "sleep regression" phase... so it's typical for sleep patterns to regress at this time... but hang in there!!!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Posted by KGools

Do you think she is getting enough when she nurses? If she's screaming out of hunger, have you considered supplementing with formula? Is it possible she's going thru a growth spurt and cluster feeding (which would explain why she gets up screaming to eat after only a little while).

Good luck!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

I was going to come on today to post something similiar.
My DD is 4.5 months old and our story sounds extremely similar to yours.
She has always been a horrible napper, a light sleeper, wakes up the SECOND you put her down, never sleeps for long stretches, etc.
It has gotten to the point where it is RUINING my motherhood experience.
With working full time I am at the end of my rope. I can't tell you the last time I got a full night's sleep. I'm wishing this precious time away because I am SO over the sleeping issues.

Now with the clock change this weekend, it's even worse. She's falling asleep too early and waking up at 4 am...yesterday and today.

She has absoultely no idea how to fall asleep without assistance (whether that be rocking, swaddling, a bottle, etc). I have never seen her just close her eyes and drift off. NEVER.

I sometimes feel like it's our own fault- because I don't have the strength in my body as a working mom to try to break her of these habits or to try to CIO, etc.
Right now I need sleep-So I do ANYTHING to get her to sleep- so that I can sleep.
It may be wrong but it's survival mode right now.

Reading MaybeaMommy's post has made me feel better. Maybe there IS hope for the future.
I feel she is too young for CIO- but 6 months has always been in my mind to try that.
I'm glad to hear it can work at that age!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

NervousNell, I'm sorry to hear that you're dealing with the same issues, but it's nice to know I'm not alone!

When I hear about people who put their babies down drowsy, but not asleep and they don't scream their heads off it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me or my baby!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

My dr. told to me to CIO at her 4 month appt. We did, it was extremely hard, but we did, and now I give her last bottle and put down and she usually goes to sleep on her own, sometimes she'll cry for top 10 minutes.

I would be in her room rocking her until she was out cold for 1/2 hour to an hour. It was insane. I was tired. It was exhausting. Now she sttn and if she wakes up she goes back to sleep after a few mintues. I have no regrets do it at 4 months. My dr. said this is the age where they start to remember and make sleep associations. It took a good 2 weeks to get into a good rhythm, and then it was on and off for a few now at almost 6months no problems. I am learning how to sttn again instead of staying awake waiting for her cry, or listening for her

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Do you think maybe your DC is overtired? When DS was that age I made sure to put him down for a nap after he had been awake for 90 minutes, if even that long. Once I got him used to the 90 minutes awake then nap, his sleeping really became regulated. I would also try not to get her used to only sleeping after nursing, i tried to make it so that he wouldn't always nap after a bottle so that he could fall asleep without that cue, if that makes sense. CIO at 4 months sounds really difficult, she's so tiny still. I would definitely put her down drowsy but awake, you'll be glad you did later on. If she's fussy, just stay by the crib, rub her tummy, maybe sing, but try not to pick her up. When she's calm, move farther from the crib. Is your DD in your room? Our DS was in our room until 3 months but at that point we decided to transition him to his crib in his own room even though he wasn't sttn; it was like he could feel us in the room, even if we were extremely quiet when we walked in and he was stirring much more in his sleep, he definitely slept better when he was in his room. We did all naps in the crib at 4 months too. Hope some of what i wrote helps, DS is 13 months now so this is just some of what i remember doing.

ETA: at 3.5 months DS was still waking for a bottle. Ped told me he didn't need it but someone here made me realize that the ped had no idea if he needed it since DS couldn't tell us he wasn't hungry so I decided to still give him his 3AM bottle which he would finish quickly. A few weeks later he dropped the bottle on his own and sttn. Just go with your gut, for now, if you think she's hungry, feed her.

Message edited 11/8/2010 9:51:41 AM.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Posted by pnbplus1

Do you think maybe your DC is overtired? When DS was that age I made sure to put him down for a nap after he had been awake for 90 minutes, if even that long. Once I got him used to the 90 minutes awake then nap, his sleeping really became regulated. I would also try not to get her used to only sleeping after nursing, i tried to make it so that he wouldn't always nap after a bottle so that he could fall asleep without that cue, if that makes sense. CIO at 4 months sounds really difficult, she's so tiny still. I would definitely put her down drowsy but awake, you'll be glad you did later on. If she's fussy, just stay by the crib, rub her tummy, maybe sing, but try not to pick her up. When she's calm, move farther from the crib. Is your DD in your room? Our DS was in our room until 3 months but at that point we decided to transition him to his crib in his own room even though he wasn't sttn; it was like he could feel us in the room, even if we were extremely quiet when we walked in and he was stirring much more in his sleep, he definitely slept better when he was in his room. We did all naps in the crib at 4 months too. Hope some of what i wrote helps, DS is 13 months now so this is just some of what i remember doing.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Hmm well the fact that she used to sleep through the night tells me that 1. she can soothe herself back to sleep and 2. she doesnt need to eat at night. It sounds more like a sleep regression to me.

I would continue with the CIO. Because she has slept through the night before, I would think it shouldnt take long for her to fall back into the pattern. If she pees, it should be ok since she used to STTN and her diaper would have been wet anyway for many many hours. If she poops, thats a different story. I would just go in every 5 minutes or so, quietly and just give a quick sniff to see if she pooped.

As for the naps, if it takes a while to calm her down, i would have to assume that maybe shes overtired. This will also cause short naps as well. Keep up with it if putting her down every 90 minutes is something new youre doing. Eventually she will pick up on the routine and be better with her sleep.

Hang in there. Sleep issues have certainly been the biggest challenge for me as a new mommy.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

maybe you should stop swaddling her. I stopped around 3 months b/c she was breaking out and trying to move around. Now she moves in her sleep. I use a sleep sack now.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

For so long I thought I was doing something wrong. It seemed every other baby on the planet was STTN at this point, but my DS still is not. After talking with a lot of moms I came to realize that it is more common than I thought. You are not alone

DS was getting a lot better by around 3-4 months of age. He would go 4 or 5 hour stretches and once in a while even 7 hours. Then he regressed. I think it was a combination of starting daycare and getting a cold around the same time. I was nursing him constantly and I think it became habit. I am from the school of thought that if your child wakes and is hungry that you should feed him. That is just me. But like you, I didn't realize that I was feeding him when he didn't need it!!

I read somewhere that you should go by what your child's longest stretch of sleeping is and use that as a guideline (unless it is a growth spurt or they are sick etc). So for examples, if she has slept for 8 hours straight, you know that she can sleep at least 6 or 7 hours. I have started gently sleep training my son (he is almost 5 months old) and I *think* it is working.

Here is what has been working for me. Just a warning - I am definitely no expert! My kid doesn't STTN but he has greatly improved and I think some of these reasons may be why.

-I introduced a lovey. He has a little bear that he snuggles with. I nurse him with it. He sleeps with it. I am trying to get him attached to it so it will comfort him when I cannot. It has helped get him to sleep because I watch him on the video monitor and he rubs it on his face and (eventually) falls asleep.

-We have a consistent nighttime routine. During the day it's bright and loud when he naps. At night the lights are low, it is quiet. He gets his bath every night around 7. It's then a book and then he is nursed to sleep and in bed by 7:45ish.

-I try to get him to nap a minimum of 2 hours a day. I put him down before he is super tired. Sometimes when he is the crib he has to "work it out" a bit. Sometimes it will take 30 minutes for him to start sleeping and then he will only sleep another 20-30. Because of this he naps like 3 or 4 times a day. He is a catnapper at daycare and this is the only way I can get him rested enough at night. He takes 3 naps at daycare and one at night after we get home before his nighttime routine.

-We follow a eat, play, sleep routine. This way he is not dependent on eating to sleep. Sometimes I do feed him before he sleeps again because he seems hungry. Following this sort of schedule allows for flexibility (I just watch his cues) and yet predictability if that makes sense. I know when he is due to eat and sleep. It's less confusing this way.

-At night when DS wakes I no longer rush to feed him right away. I used to respond so quickly I think he got used to it

Before I go to bed I dreamfeed him around 10pm. I then mentally say to myself that I am going to try not to feed him until at least 3am.

If he fusses before that time I check on him after waiting a couple of minutes (unless it is escalating - then I go to him immediately). I give him his binky, his lovey and "tuck" him in. I put his sound machine back on. Without talking I go right back to bed. I give him some time to work it out. He usually falls back asleep. Sometimes it can take a while. As long as he is not crying out I let him fuss it out.

Usually that gives me at least an hour or two. Sometimes it doesn't work and he wakes back up after 20 or 30 minutes and then I know he is hungry. If he is CRYING I know he is hungry. But that is my child and you know yours best.


I have been doing this for about a week now and I have him down to 1-2 feedings a night. He wakes 2-3 times a night on average but it is A LOT better than the 5 or 6 I was doing.

Sorry this is so long but I hope some part of it may help you or someone else. I was at my wits end with sleep depravation and decided I had to take matters into my own hands. The first couple of nights were tough but it has gotten easier.

Best of luck to you!

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

B was always a horrible sleeper too. He didn't STTN consistently until he was 18 months.

Your daughter may be teething as well. My son would have a hard time sleeping when he was teething and he couldn't self soothe through the pain.

Message edited 7/7/2011 11:09:34 AM.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

I hate to say it but my dd is going to be one in two weeks - she still doesn't sttn. Some kids just aren't great sleepers and it takes longer for them to do it.

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Re: Desperate for sleep advice (4 months old)

Thank you all so much

DH and I are going to sit down tonight and figure out a plan going forward and be consistent with it. Hopefully at some point DD will get on board, too.