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MM2004
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Member since 5/05 1854 total posts
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by MM2004
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
I just read an article about a mother that allowed her partner to beat her infant to death. I forget how many broken bones the baby had (IIRC it was over 20), I tried to google it to link the article
(just to demonstrate how sick some women can be and how they should not be mothers) and so many stories came up that I'm now sick to my stomach. If you'd like to google "baby beaten several broken bones", be my guest. There are so many stories, it's unreal.
Some women need an out and maybe abortion should be looked at as a godsend. I wish those women never gave birth and it makes me question if there is a God. Not every woman should be a mother. Yeah, I guess if they made it illegal, they could force women to be mothers, but you can't force them to be good ones. The law couldn't protect these babies from their mentally ill mothers. I don't know, just another way to look at it, but some people think these laws aren't protecting the babies. Maybe they actually are.
doesn't it make you think of the saying "I didn't choose to be born?"
If we only look at women as incubators of procreation then we are looking at from a very narrow perspective. If you reframe the conversation and look at the other issues like postpartum depression and psychosis and omen forced into motherhood for religious reasons or reasons beyond their control I think people would be singing a different tune. It's because women have the luxury to look at it from the perspective of "I would never" that they can't see the "I have no other choice."
Then both sides need to start addressing these issues so women aren't force into the "I have no other choice" dilemma.
However, I still believed that abortion is used too frequently as a means of birth control by women who either do not want children or women who feel that it is not the right time for children and that is wrong in my opinion.
You have made your point crystal clear. I think given your responses above and the response here it seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. I'm not sure what else you're trying to prove.
Nasty much. I have the right to express my opinion just as much as anyone else without your nasty attitude. If you can't handle people offering their opinion, especially ones that may differ from yours, I suggest not posting things in online forums.
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Posted 1/24/19 4:14 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
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| Posted 1/24/19 4:24 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by lululu
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
Well it's STILL not legal for them to do this.
So even if a teenager wants to do it- they STILL cannot with this new law.
And if they go and get it done ILLEGALLY- well this law has nothing to do with illegal people doing shady terrible stuff.
We can get rid of this law. We can get rid of Roe v Wade. We can BAN abortion 100% and illegal stuff like this will still happen.
And if you use abortion as a form of birth control, well that's on you, but again, you still have to do it before a certain point.
NOTHING in that has changed.
Why are people insisting it has??
Message edited 1/24/2019 4:33:13 PM.
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| Posted 1/24/19 4:32 PM |
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drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!
Member since 6/07 8274 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
Message edited 1/24/2019 5:15:38 PM.
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| Posted 1/24/19 5:13 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
Well it's STILL not legal for them to do this.
So even if a teenager wants to do it- they STILL cannot with this new law.
And if they go and get it done ILLEGALLY- well this law has nothing to do with illegal people doing shady terrible stuff.
We can get rid of this law. We can get rid of Roe v Wade. We can BAN abortion 100% and illegal stuff like this will still happen.
And if you use abortion as a form of birth control, well that's on you, but again, you still have to do it before a certain point.
NOTHING in that has changed.
Why are people insisting it has??
So wait.
Isn't this the gun control argument? The bad guys will still get the guns so why have laws?
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| Posted 1/24/19 5:35 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
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| Posted 1/24/19 7:07 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
Well it's STILL not legal for them to do this.
So even if a teenager wants to do it- they STILL cannot with this new law.
And if they go and get it done ILLEGALLY- well this law has nothing to do with illegal people doing shady terrible stuff.
We can get rid of this law. We can get rid of Roe v Wade. We can BAN abortion 100% and illegal stuff like this will still happen.
And if you use abortion as a form of birth control, well that's on you, but again, you still have to do it before a certain point.
NOTHING in that has changed.
Why are people insisting it has??
So wait.
Isn't this the gun control argument? The bad guys will still get the guns so why have laws?
No! That is not what I was saying.
What I meant was.... this law is NOT legalizing late term abortions without EXTREME circumstance. So teen girls can't use this law to go get a late term abortion.
Period. The end.
This law changes NOTHING in regards to that. Nothing.
It was illegal to get a late term abortion then and it STILL IS NOW
Message edited 1/24/2019 7:21:51 PM.
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| Posted 1/24/19 7:20 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
Well it's STILL not legal for them to do this.
So even if a teenager wants to do it- they STILL cannot with this new law.
And if they go and get it done ILLEGALLY- well this law has nothing to do with illegal people doing shady terrible stuff.
We can get rid of this law. We can get rid of Roe v Wade. We can BAN abortion 100% and illegal stuff like this will still happen.
And if you use abortion as a form of birth control, well that's on you, but again, you still have to do it before a certain point.
NOTHING in that has changed.
Why are people insisting it has??
So wait.
Isn't this the gun control argument? The bad guys will still get the guns so why have laws?
No! That is not what I was saying.
What I meant was.... this law is NOT legalizing late term abortions without EXTREME circumstance. So teen girls can't use this law to go get a late term abortion.
Period. The end.
This law changes NOTHING in regards to that. Nothing.
It was illegal to get a late term abortion then and it STILL IS NOW
Sorry my deadpan humor didn’t translate - it was a joke!
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| Posted 1/24/19 7:39 PM |
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blu6385
Member since 5/08 8351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by Straightarrow
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by Straightarrow
I can't get my tubes tied, LMAO. I asked 3 doctors to do it, but I am too young, they won't do it!!
Love that women feel other women (who are responsible and use BC) should live in the dark ages!
38 and too young? Id keep looking for a dr. I was 31 and had them done. Wasnt even questioned about it. My dr is no longer practicing or Id pass his info along.
It's crazy, when I left my ex husband I was 32, I was told they wouldn't do it, now I'm on my third GYN and she still won't do it.
Id leave the practice.
My dr at the time actually suggested it. I couldnt take the pill and didnt want anymore kids. I was also married at the time and thought I would need his ok. Because thats what I was always told. The dr said nope its your choice.
I said..sign me up..lol And this was 20 yrs ago.
Good luck to you. Hopefully you find someone that does what YOU want and not what THEY want.
i have to agree find a new dr. i cant believe 3 of them told you no. i got my tubes tied at 35. they said are you sure and I told them yes i am 100% sure and they did it.
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| Posted 1/24/19 8:05 PM |
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Mrs213
????????
Member since 2/09 18986 total posts
Name:
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Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
We of course don’t want to see abortion as birth control. There are people who use abortions as birth control and that’s a fact. Let’s talk for a minute about the women who have the baby anyway knowing they don’t want it or can’t care for it. Maybe she is on drugs, maybe she has mental health issues, maybe she grew up abused or neglected and lacks basic self awareness and confidence. She has the baby anyway, and can’t care for it. Baby ends up in the custody of DSS. Baby goes into foster care which is very costly (your tax dollars), Mom visits with baby and starts bonding with baby, but relapses on drugs. This cycle repeats over and over for babies and small children, who end up growing up with things like reactive detachment disorder and other issues which are a burden on society. Call me mean if you want but abortion is a viable alternative. Nothing good comes from having a baby if you are not in correct frame of mind. I would love if people would be responsible and use appropriate birth control but it’s not real life....
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| Posted 1/24/19 8:13 PM |
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drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!
Member since 6/07 8274 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
Yes, right. But wouldn’t she have always been able to make this decision I thought? Hasn’t abortion been legal so far till 24 weeks? And if she’s any further along than that already, wouldn’t they just take the baby out alive (or hopefully alive if premature baby survives) like by a c sec so the mom can get the chemo? I’m not seeing the change happening with this now when this has always been the case?
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| Posted 1/24/19 8:18 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by drpepper318
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
Yes, right. But wouldn’t she have always been able to make this decision I thought? Hasn’t abortion been legal so far till 24 weeks? And if she’s any further along than that already, wouldn’t they just take the baby out alive (or hopefully alive if premature baby survives) like by a c sec so the mom can get the chemo? I’m not seeing the change happening with this now when this has always been the case?
It may not be your choice or my choice but in that case some may prefer not to put a baby through that extremely difficult start in life while they are simultaneously trying to worry about their own lives. I also wonder how easy it is to convince a doctor to deliver a baby at 24 weeks when they know all the risks. Not saying abortion is the better answer but I think it would take a desperate situation for a doctor to take either action.
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| Posted 1/24/19 8:27 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by drpepper318
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
Yes, right. But wouldn’t she have always been able to make this decision I thought? Hasn’t abortion been legal so far till 24 weeks? And if she’s any further along than that already, wouldn’t they just take the baby out alive (or hopefully alive if premature baby survives) like by a c sec so the mom can get the chemo? I’m not seeing the change happening with this now when this has always been the case?
What if there’s no one to take care of the baby and the mom doesn’t survive and she doesn’t want her kid growing up in foster care? Or the family decides they can’t or won’t take care of a child born prematurely that could potentially require lifelong care that they cannot provide?
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| Posted 1/24/19 8:29 PM |
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Mrs213
????????
Member since 2/09 18986 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by drpepper318
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
Yes, right. But wouldn’t she have always been able to make this decision I thought? Hasn’t abortion been legal so far till 24 weeks? And if she’s any further along than that already, wouldn’t they just take the baby out alive (or hopefully alive if premature baby survives) like by a c sec so the mom can get the chemo? I’m not seeing the change happening with this now when this has always been the case?
What if there’s no one to take care of the baby and the mom doesn’t survive and she doesn’t want her kid growing up in foster care? Or the family decides they can’t or won’t take care of a child born prematurely that could potentially require lifelong care that they cannot provide?
Then the child becomes a destitute child and goes into OCFS custody
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| Posted 1/24/19 9:02 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by Mrs213
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by drpepper318
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
Yes, right. But wouldn’t she have always been able to make this decision I thought? Hasn’t abortion been legal so far till 24 weeks? And if she’s any further along than that already, wouldn’t they just take the baby out alive (or hopefully alive if premature baby survives) like by a c sec so the mom can get the chemo? I’m not seeing the change happening with this now when this has always been the case?
What if there’s no one to take care of the baby and the mom doesn’t survive and she doesn’t want her kid growing up in foster care? Or the family decides they can’t or won’t take care of a child born prematurely that could potentially require lifelong care that they cannot provide?
Then the child becomes a destitute child and goes into OCFS custody
My heart can’t handle that it’s horrible
And how are those kids expected to grow up completely functioning and well adjusted
It’s fuckking sick the cycle
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| Posted 1/24/19 9:23 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by drpepper318
I have a question I’m not clear on...maybe someone can clarify not sure if already asked... Does anybody know why the clause would even be necessary “for the health of the mother” if even at 24/25 weeks say, the mother MUST get this baby out of her body for her own safety, the OB would do a c section instead since babies do survive that early? And, if it was even earlier say 22/23 weeks, abortion was and is already legal at that point before this law anyway... so it seems like... before 24 weeks abortion (already legal), after 24 weeks c section & baby has a decent chance of survival since viability has been reached.
All time frames are already covered under the previous law. What am I missing?
I’m talking about safety of the mother only, NOT referring to a terminally ill or already deceased baby.
it would be for an instance like the mother has cancer and has to decide between chemo or baby. Some may make the choice to go for the chemo. Others may not. It really is a personal issue.
There are many chemotherapies that are perfectly safe to be given during pregnancy. Cancer diagnosis during pregnancy is unfortunately not as rare as most people think.
I'm not saying this to fuel drpepper's fire because I vehemently disagree with literally every single thing she has said but just wanted to put that info out there.
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| Posted 1/24/19 9:32 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10314 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
For anyone saying keep the baby and deal with it or adoption as an option - don’t say that until:
1. You ever given up a kid for adoption - not everyone can birth a child and hand their kid over. It’s not an easy choice even if you didn’t want to be a mother.
2. You foster children or visit the kids in the foster care system. Can you imagine the increase in cases if women weren’t allowed their right? These poor children that nobody wants growing up in the system and most are in a home who are looking for a paycheck.
I don’t agree with multiple abortions as a means for prevention but I don’t believe children should suffer because their birth mother didn’t have a choice.
Also getting tubes tied is an evasive surgery and there has been cases where females have eptopic pregancies. Condoms aren’t 100%, birth control definitely isn’t and can really mess someone. Now I’m not against BC but legit accidents happen. People need to join the real world.
In this day and age we need to start throwing the BeAware hashtag. Many people talk with out thinking or knowing facts.
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| Posted 1/24/19 10:40 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by Momma2015
The other big piece of this legislation that I think the people who are horrified are missing is that if a woman is sexually active and becomes pregnant but doesn't want a baby now or ever even, they're not waiting around until they are 30 weeks to abort. They are doing it right away! Which was legal BEFORE this bill was ever discussed.
ding ding ding we have a winner
Exactly! You aren't going to pee on the stick, find out you are pregnant, freak out and walk around for 6 months.
Come on now
The problem is, there are teenagers and young adults that will do this.
There are teenagers go full term and then throw their babies in the garbage upon giving birth or try to drown their babies in the toilet. And I know more than one person that had illegal late term abortions because they were young and stupid and waited too long to have an abortion in NYS. Sick things do happen in this world. It's sad but true.
I don't think any abortion after the baby would be a viable life is appropriate except for in the cases where the mother's life is at stake or the baby has severe problems that will prevent it from living outside the womb, which it sounds like this law was designed for. However, broadly defining "health of the mother" seems inappropriate to me.
And as one PP said, let's be honest here, most abortions are a form of birth control. I know lots of people who have had abortions and not ONE was because the person was raped....
Well it's STILL not legal for them to do this.
So even if a teenager wants to do it- they STILL cannot with this new law.
And if they go and get it done ILLEGALLY- well this law has nothing to do with illegal people doing shady terrible stuff.
We can get rid of this law. We can get rid of Roe v Wade. We can BAN abortion 100% and illegal stuff like this will still happen.
And if you use abortion as a form of birth control, well that's on you, but again, you still have to do it before a certain point.
NOTHING in that has changed.
Why are people insisting it has??
Please reread what I wrote. It has absolutely changed. Health of the mother is purposely loosely defined. It is no longer criminal to perform a late term abortion. Now all you need is to loosely define the mental health of the mother being at stake. Not her life. Just her mental well being. So now you are giving people a legal channel to do all of that shady stuff.
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| Posted 1/24/19 11:38 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3999 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by Sash
For anyone saying keep the baby and deal with it or adoption as an option - don’t say that until:
1. You ever given up a kid for adoption - not everyone can birth a child and hand their kid over. It’s not an easy choice even if you didn’t want to be a mother.
2. You foster children or visit the kids in the foster care system. Can you imagine the increase in cases if women weren’t allowed their right? These poor children that nobody wants growing up in the system and most are in a home who are looking for a paycheck.
I don’t agree with multiple abortions as a means for prevention but I don’t believe children should suffer because their birth mother didn’t have a choice.
Also getting tubes tied is an evasive surgery and there has been cases where females have eptopic pregancies. Condoms aren’t 100%, birth control definitely isn’t and can really mess someone. Now I’m not against BC but legit accidents happen. People need to join the real world.
In this day and age we need to start throwing the BeAware hashtag. Many people talk with out thinking or knowing facts.
I wonder if those against abortion ever think about the increased cost of all those kids going to foster care or the mothers who will now be on welfare because they cant afford to take care of a kid. I know a lot of people who are anti abortion yet they ***** and complain about people on welfare. Some people are so black and white, unfortunately our world doesnt work that way.
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| Posted 1/25/19 8:13 AM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by Sash
For anyone saying keep the baby and deal with it or adoption as an option - don’t say that until:
1. You ever given up a kid for adoption - not everyone can birth a child and hand their kid over. It’s not an easy choice even if you didn’t want to be a mother.
2. You foster children or visit the kids in the foster care system. Can you imagine the increase in cases if women weren’t allowed their right? These poor children that nobody wants growing up in the system and most are in a home who are looking for a paycheck.
I don’t agree with multiple abortions as a means for prevention but I don’t believe children should suffer because their birth mother didn’t have a choice.
Also getting tubes tied is an evasive surgery and there has been cases where females have eptopic pregancies. Condoms aren’t 100%, birth control definitely isn’t and can really mess someone. Now I’m not against BC but legit accidents happen. People need to join the real world.
In this day and age we need to start throwing the BeAware hashtag. Many people talk with out thinking or knowing facts.
I wonder if those against abortion ever think about the increased cost of all those kids going to foster care or the mothers who will now be on welfare because they cant afford to take care of a kid. I know a lot of people who are anti abortion yet they ***** and complain about people on welfare. Some people are so black and white, unfortunately our world doesnt work that way.
But they say they are pro-welfare, pro-healthcare, pro-social services.
It's like we're going in circles. For the 2-3 posters who keep harping on the "health" semantics of the law, everyone else is expending their emotional and mental labor to explain and give fifteen different hypothetical situations. Still it isn't good enough. They don't want to hear it. I don't care anymore what they think. If they really cared about the law they should have gotten involved rather than get up in arms after the fact. Or educated themselves on the law rather than spew nonsense from alt-right or conservative sources with exaggerated and dramatic rhetoric.
Over it.
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| Posted 1/25/19 8:49 AM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
The other side to the argument that abortion is used as birth control (which as far as I can see is the EXCEPTION and not the norm) is MAYBE if women had better access to preventative health care this wouldn't happen at all? Maybe if we actually taught sex ed in schools women AND men would be more responsible. Maybe if certain parties didn't try to pull funding from Planned Parenthood birth control would be more accessible.
You can't say (and I'm not saying this to anyone in particular here, but typical right wing/religious groups) don't teach sex ed, don't fund planned parenthood, don't cover contraceptives, place the entire onus on the woman (because boys will be boys, right?  ), don't even try to have an abortion, but also don't expect any assistance after your child is born.
That's crazy pants! Something down this line has GOT to give.
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| Posted 1/25/19 8:50 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by Momma2015
The other side to the argument that abortion is used as birth control (which as far as I can see is the EXCEPTION and not the norm) is MAYBE if women had better access to preventative health care this wouldn't happen at all? Maybe if we actually taught sex ed in schools women AND men would be more responsible. Maybe if certain parties didn't try to pull funding from Planned Parenthood birth control would be more accessible.
You can't say (and I'm not saying this to anyone in particular here, but typical right wing/religious groups) don't teach sex ed, don't fund planned parenthood, don't cover contraceptives, place the entire onus on the woman (because boys will be boys, right? ), don't even try to have an abortion, but also don't expect any assistance after your child is born.
That's crazy pants! Something down this line has GOT to give.
In most cases , I can see this maybe being helpful. But without going into full detail - when you’ve heard a grown woman use the sentence “I can’t wait to get this thing sucked out of me” (for the 5th time since you’ve known her) you KNOW it is abused in so other cases. And no, because of this woman, and 5 others I know IRL who use abortion as BC, the people who need it shouldn’t be denied this option.
I wish it was controlled more maybe? Like after abortion #3 in the last 5 years there should be an Intervention of some sort.
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| Posted 1/25/19 9:10 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by MM2004
Posted by mrsrainbow
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
I just read an article about a mother that allowed her partner to beat her infant to death. I forget how many broken bones the baby had (IIRC it was over 20), I tried to google it to link the article
(just to demonstrate how sick some women can be and how they should not be mothers) and so many stories came up that I'm now sick to my stomach. If you'd like to google "baby beaten several broken bones", be my guest. There are so many stories, it's unreal.
Some women need an out and maybe abortion should be looked at as a godsend. I wish those women never gave birth and it makes me question if there is a God. Not every woman should be a mother. Yeah, I guess if they made it illegal, they could force women to be mothers, but you can't force them to be good ones. The law couldn't protect these babies from their mentally ill mothers. I don't know, just another way to look at it, but some people think these laws aren't protecting the babies. Maybe they actually are.
doesn't it make you think of the saying "I didn't choose to be born?"
If we only look at women as incubators of procreation then we are looking at from a very narrow perspective. If you reframe the conversation and look at the other issues like postpartum depression and psychosis and omen forced into motherhood for religious reasons or reasons beyond their control I think people would be singing a different tune. It's because women have the luxury to look at it from the perspective of "I would never" that they can't see the "I have no other choice."
Then both sides need to start addressing these issues so women aren't force into the "I have no other choice" dilemma.
However, I still believed that abortion is used too frequently as a means of birth control by women who either do not want children or women who feel that it is not the right time for children and that is wrong in my opinion.
Addressing your "both sides" comment:
I don't know what your political beliefs are, but for the past few decades there has only been one "side" that has made any effort at all to do this, while the other side does nothing but relentlessly cut (or attempt to cut) the social programs that provide the safety nets for the most vulnerable among us. The only thing that stops them is public outcry, like in 2017 when every other day we had to pick up the phone and beg our representatives to please not cut the benefits that our fellow citizens rely on. Or like in Baby Bush's administration with the privatization of Social Security.
This is why "pro life" is NOT what it is. They are pro fetus.
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| Posted 1/25/19 9:19 AM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by Momma2015
The other side to the argument that abortion is used as birth control (which as far as I can see is the EXCEPTION and not the norm) is MAYBE if women had better access to preventative health care this wouldn't happen at all? Maybe if we actually taught sex ed in schools women AND men would be more responsible. Maybe if certain parties didn't try to pull funding from Planned Parenthood birth control would be more accessible.
You can't say (and I'm not saying this to anyone in particular here, but typical right wing/religious groups) don't teach sex ed, don't fund planned parenthood, don't cover contraceptives, place the entire onus on the woman (because boys will be boys, right? ), don't even try to have an abortion, but also don't expect any assistance after your child is born.
That's crazy pants! Something down this line has GOT to give.
In most cases , I can see this maybe being helpful. But without going into full detail - when you’ve heard a grown woman use the sentence “I can’t wait to get this thing sucked out of me” (for the 5th time since you’ve known her) you KNOW it is abused in so other cases. And no, because of this woman, and 5 others I know IRL who use abortion as BC, the people who need it shouldn’t be denied this option.
I wish it was controlled more maybe? Like after abortion #3 in the last 5 years there should be an Intervention of some sort.
Unfortunately I do know ONE person who uses abortion as birth control. I hate it, I think it's unreasonable and irresponsible. In her state there is a cap on how many abortions one person can have. She has reached that cap.
ETA: Even still knowing this person... I still truly believe this is the exception and not the norm. And I appreciate and understand the fact that you don't think that one or even a few people who abuse this system should take away the rights of the many. Unfortunately, many others do NOT think the way you do.
Message edited 1/25/2019 9:24:10 AM.
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| Posted 1/25/19 9:22 AM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10314 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Bill Passes in NY State Legalizing Abortion All the Way Up Until Birth!
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by Sash
For anyone saying keep the baby and deal with it or adoption as an option - don’t say that until:
1. You ever given up a kid for adoption - not everyone can birth a child and hand their kid over. It’s not an easy choice even if you didn’t want to be a mother.
2. You foster children or visit the kids in the foster care system. Can you imagine the increase in cases if women weren’t allowed their right? These poor children that nobody wants growing up in the system and most are in a home who are looking for a paycheck.
I don’t agree with multiple abortions as a means for prevention but I don’t believe children should suffer because their birth mother didn’t have a choice.
Also getting tubes tied is an evasive surgery and there has been cases where females have eptopic pregancies. Condoms aren’t 100%, birth control definitely isn’t and can really mess someone. Now I’m not against BC but legit accidents happen. People need to join the real world.
In this day and age we need to start throwing the BeAware hashtag. Many people talk with out thinking or knowing facts.
I wonder if those against abortion ever think about the increased cost of all those kids going to foster care or the mothers who will now be on welfare because they cant afford to take care of a kid. I know a lot of people who are anti abortion yet they ***** and complain about people on welfare. Some people are so black and white, unfortunately our world doesnt work that way.
No, the majority of the time people don’t live in the real world.
Let me tell you being on welfare isnt some free money party for the majority. We f#kn struggled, when you go on a 1hr train ride with your mom to the welfare office in the freezing cold for a scheduled meeting, wait for 2 hrs to be seen only for them to tell you are missing paperwork and have to go back home to go back and wait again. Then it happened again when we went back. My mother also gave up a child for adoption that really emotionally messed her up.
Don’t get me started on foster care and the systems. It’s truly sad, just looking around the waiting room when during my sons court hearings was a sad sight. These poor kids have a number assigned to them. We used to call the courthouse central baby booking.
It’s not black and white.
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| Posted 1/25/19 9:51 AM |
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