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Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
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Pomegranate5
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by mommywantsababy
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by mommywantsababy
In all seriousness, do you follow every single aap and cdc guideline?
I'll admit I probably don't know every single guideline. I kind of depend on my pediatrician to advise me about them, unless there is media coverage about changes in them, e.g., car seat recommendations from the AAP. But I do follow them as best I can, and I don't make medical decisions in contradiction to them on the assumption that I know better than doctors and science.
I am talking about the life and death ones.
Va
Starbrightgirl, I’m really glad to have a buddy to die on this hill with me 
Don’t most people follow AAP and CDC guidelines? Is this a trick question?
Right? Like why would you not?
Putting baby on it's back to sleep, rear facing until at least 2, etc, all designed to help prevent child deaths.
Not something to pick and chose from IMO.
Again- we won't eat a fuking piece of sushi or GOD FORBID take a sip of wine while pregnant but once the baby is out- eh, all bets are off!
So your kids had no screens prior to 18 months, and then no more than an hour of only educational programming before age 5?
You waited until 6 mo for solids?
Your child eats a well-balanced, nutritious diet for every meal?
I mean, there’s a whole slew of guidelines that they promote that i feel people pick and choose from.
I am talking about the life and death ones.
Vaccines
Car Seats
sleeping guidelines to prevent SIDS.
Things that can cause death if not followed
Not about TV time and organic peas
The CDC does not give exact dates for the vaccines. They give a RANGE, sometimes months long. So if a parent doesn't want to give all three shots at once and want to wait a month or two, STILL WITHIN THE RANGE, why the heck is that anyone elses business? If the child was sick at their well visit the dr would delay the shots anyway.
Do any of you know for sure that someone elses kid won't have a reaction to these shots? And god forbid they do have a severe reaction, maybe some parents want to be able to narrow down exactly what gave it to them.
Just a friendly tip for all the posters calling moms who don't vaccinate exactly as they see fit, calling people with worries and fears "absurd" and mocking them isn't going to get your point across any faster. And it doesn't make you look any more intelligent.
FTR I am strongly pro-vax and did vaccinate on schedule, but again that "schedule" is a guideline.
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Posted 2/28/19 9:12 AM  |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
I know exactly how natural herd immunity works. The decrease of the measles epidemic was indeed due to natural herd immunity and not due to the very convenient creation of the mmr. Our bodies are amazing at creating antibodies and to even pass them to our kids through a passive immunity. This type of info is available to anyone, u don’t need to be a dr to have access to historical records. But at the same time, u do need to dig deeper and not just believe what the media, some doctors, and even the CDC makes us believe. Injuries and even death from vaccines are not rare, remember...just because we don’t see them in the news, it doesn’t mean the don’t exist or that they rarely happen. There are millions of cases reported, not to even mention court cases, and the millions paid to the injured or their families. Yes, if there was a vaccine that could cure or prevent a disease without risking my own health or my kids, I’d be all about it but unfortunately that is not the case. Just like I said before, take a look at the actual ingredients in each of these vaccines and how they can be linked to things like GI problems, allergies that started out of no where, compromised immune systems, etc. How come past generations did not experience any of these things but we are now, and things more deadly like cancer.
Oh and btw, the measles epidemic happened because no one had ever experienced it, The human race had never experienced it, so of course we didn’t have immunity to it. It was the perfect opportunity for this virus to be fatal. But not anymore since then, and the cases that are being report are not really considered alarming compared to other fatal diseases and even vaccine injuries, u can just compare how many deaths there have been due to measles and compare that number to let’s say to those that died because of cancer.
Again knowledgeable is power and we can all do it whether we have an MD next to our names or not. Challenge what u’ve been taught all ur life, search for reputable, unbiased information, listen to those who have been affected, question why so many nurses and doctors are now been verbal about things like vaccines. It’d surprise u what u can find.
One last thing, and I hope u (general u) can find some time to read this article. I found it quite interesting..
AAPS
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| Posted 2/28/19 11:03 PM |
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schmora15
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 2476 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
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| Posted 3/1/19 2:43 AM |
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
One last thing, and I hope u (general u) can find some time to read this article. I found it quite interesting..
AAPS
This is not an article - it's a politically motivated statement for lobbying our government.
While the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons sounds like a medical association, it's actually an ultra-conservative political association that advocates against socialized medicine, or really any federal government involvement in healthcare, and has been known to push scientifically discredited information.
Here is their wikipedia page Link If you look through some the stances they've taken, especially the issues that are advocated for in their "journal," it's pretty clear that they're not motivated by actual scientific/medical findings.
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| Posted 3/1/19 9:00 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by soontobemommyof2
One last thing, and I hope u (general u) can find some time to read this article. I found it quite interesting..
AAPS
This is not an article - it's a politically motivated statement for lobbying our government.
While the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons sounds like a medical association, it's actually an ultra-conservative political association that advocates against socialized medicine, or really any federal government involvement in healthcare, and has been known to push scientifically discredited information.
Here is their wikipedia page Link If you look through some the stances they've taken, especially the issues that are advocated for in their "journal," it's pretty clear that they're not motivated by actual scientific/medical findings.
Yes, I was awared of that but what I found interesting is that they’re actual MDs voicing their opinions on a very debatable subject just like many other nurses and doctors working mainstream are doing now. U really can’t help but wonder what’s motivating them to do so even when they’re taking a huge risk about losing their licenses.
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| Posted 3/1/19 10:30 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by schmora15
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
Did u read the reports about Arizona (where a lot of ppl prefer not to vaccinate and laws are more in favor for exemptions)? Almost no cases of measles reported. So different than other states where there are no exemptions or they make it very hard to get them.
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| Posted 3/1/19 10:34 AM |
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LuckyStar
The autism-vaccine link has been disproved time and time again. The British doctor who wrote the paper fabricated the data and lost his license. There was never any link. It was all a sham.
The most disgusting part is the amount of money that went into disproving the link. Money that could have been used for real research, money to provide resources and supports to children and their families. Who knows what progress could have been made? Its despicable.
What was his end game in lying about this? Like why did he do that?
He must have thought he’d get away with it. Which he did for a pretty long time. This was in the 90’s, in Britain, when oversight wasn’t what it is now.
I teach a class on autism and I have this discussion EVERY time I teach the class. The damage that has been done from falsification of data and false claims that vaccines cause autism is going to take more than a lifetime to reverse and have people be vaccinated again 
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| Posted 3/1/19 10:35 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by schmora15
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
Did u read the reports about Arizona (where a lot of ppl prefer not to vaccinate and laws are more in favor for exemptions)? Almost no cases of measles reported. So different than other states where there are no exemptions or they make it very hard to get them.
So you are saying that vaccines must be the CAUSE of these outbreaks huh?
Is that what you are getting at?
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| Posted 3/1/19 10:49 AM |
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Katareen
5,000 Posts!
Member since 4/10 7179 total posts
Name:
Katherine
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by schmora15
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
Did u read the reports about Arizona (where a lot of ppl prefer not to vaccinate and laws are more in favor for exemptions)? Almost no cases of measles reported. So different than other states where there are no exemptions or they make it very hard to get them.
Ok, and several Hasidic communities in NY who don’t generally vaccinate are also having outbreaks.
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| Posted 3/1/19 11:04 AM |
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by schmora15
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
This is basically just speculation, because none of the articles I've seen have detailed analysis of why and how it happened. However, it seems like those 18 non-vaccinated children were lucky. From what I've read, they had medical exemptions so getting Pertussis probably would have been very dangerous for them. Luckily for them, the school has very high vaccination rates, so herd immunity may have slowed down the spread enough that they weren't exposed.
I haven't seen anything to indicate that vaccination status had any sort to causation or correlation to who was affected.
I'd assume based on the info I've read that those who were infected had contact with each other, which is why it spread among them, and that maybe the non-vaccinated children were lucky enough not to come into contact with the kids who got sick because it's a very contagious disease.
One of the articles I read said that a student went to school for two weeks after symptoms started, because he thought it was just a cold. He didn't realize it was Pertussis until he started getting much worse. He said he has permanent damage to his lungs from the disease because he ignored it so long. I'd imagine the extend exposure is part of the reason why so many vaccinated kids got sick. The vaccine is not 100%, but those who get sick usually experience milder symptoms.
If anything, it seems like a argument to be more cautious about assuming it's "just a cold." Many the news articles seem to focus on the fact that kids are being told to stay home when they have symptoms and that there is concern about missing school, so maybe the lesson should be about taking illness more serious - not about whether vaccines are a good idea. Our society in general seems to have a work through it mentality, which can be dangerous and means illnesses are spread even more.
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| Posted 3/1/19 11:18 AM |
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Yes, I was awared of that but what I found interesting is that they’re actual MDs voicing their opinions on a very debatable subject just like many other nurses and doctors working mainstream are doing now. U really can’t help but wonder what’s motivating them to do so even when they’re taking a huge risk about losing their licenses.
Yes, it is interesting that about 5,000 doctors would have membership in a group that advocates asinine beliefs, like that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism.
You pointed to this "article" as thought it had some kind of medical relevance, but it's by an ultra conservative fringe group that is not supported by the medical community at large. The fact that a few doctors (and 5,000 is a few when you consider the size of the medical community) sign onto these baseless claims does not mean that they are valid. If you can point to an article in a actual medical journal (AAPS's journal has been called predatory, untrustworthy, and is not given academic status in the medical community), with actual peer review and sources, then maybe you could make a valid point. But AAPS's political press release is not proof of anything except their political views.
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| Posted 3/1/19 11:37 AM |
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schmora15
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 2476 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by schmora15
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by soontobemommyof2
What’s actually disappearing is natural herd immunity which comes from a group of individuals’ own bodies creating long term immunity to a specific disease. The more natural immunity there is, the less the virus can survive and affect those with a low immunity system. Herd immunity due to vaccines is not long term (this is the reason why boosters are needed), and are only subject to specific strains. What would happen if a new strain of measles appears? Vaccinated ppl will not be protected even if they just had the vaccine. Also most of the ppl (older kids, adults) do not have boosters, and from a vaccine perspective, this would mean they can catch and spread the measles. Another thing, and I think this is something we either forget or don’t know about, if a child get an mmr (which contains live viruses as some of the ingredients), that child can spread the viruses to others, this is something important that needs to be known.
I get that there are “outbreaks” but what do outbreaks really mean, why and how do they happen, can they really affect us, how minimal they really are compared to the rest of the population. When I think of this and compare it to other epidemics like cancer, autism, auto immune diseases, etc and see their alarming increases, it really surprises that it’s not cover by the media, lets focus on that and really find whats causing this to not 100 something ppl but to millions!
I do not want to get into much detail about vaccines cause I know how much of a hot topic this is, especially after reading some of the comments in this thread, but I will say one thing, u do not need to be a doctor to know what really is in a vaccine, u can actually ask for the insert of any vaccine to ur own pediatrician and have a conversation with him/her about those ingredients (u might even be surprised to see that some even have a black box warning). Listen to what he says but also do ur own research from reputable and unbiased sources and see what these ingredients really are and how they can or can’t affect a person. I bet u’ll be doing a whole lot more studying than he did when in medical school, which by way is just one single class.
You understand what has to happen for natural herd immunity, right? You need to get sick with a potentially deadly disease and make antibodies against it. Before vaccines, people - in particular babies and children - DIED of these diseases. More "natural" herd immunity does not decrease the spread of the disease. It simply kills the least fit - survival of the fittest.
Outbreaks occur because people do not vaccinate - that's also why these diseases are no longer epidemics. An unvaccinated or under vaccinated person gets the disease and then spreads it to people who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated. Outbreaks are alarming because they bring awareness to the fact that immunizing is important. You and I have the luxury of being vaccinated and not remembering diseases that either killed people, such as polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella (fetal death) OR left them with life long issues like mumps (deafness). Speaking of polio, we have almost completely eradicate that disease because of vaccines. We have totally eradicated smallpox. The disease doesn't exist anymore except in a lab!
IMAGE
I have done my own research on vaccines. I know about the trade-offs, but there are more positives than negatives.
Also - I have been titered recently. They found out my chicken pox vaccine didn't take so I needed to get another round of shots in 2014. I also just got a tetanus/whooping cough booster.
What are your thoughts on the current Pertussis outbreak in California? All thirty cases were in vaccinated individuals. The 18 non-vaxxed did not get it.
Did u read the reports about Arizona (where a lot of ppl prefer not to vaccinate and laws are more in favor for exemptions)? Almost no cases of measles reported. So different than other states where there are no exemptions or they make it very hard to get them.
So you are saying that vaccines must be the CAUSE of these outbreaks huh?
Is that what you are getting at?
Not at all. I was just curious to see your thought process. I did read something recently that mentioned that children that received that vaccine, once immunity wore off are more susceptible to getting that infection. I found it alarming only because how many more boosters would you really consider reasonable. When is the efficacy questioned?
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| Posted 3/1/19 12:03 PM |
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heynow
LIF Zygote
Member since 3/19 23 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Not meant with any disrespect, but if you think our government agencies are legitimate with vaccine studies, you are naive. The vaccine industry is a billion dollar industry. There are many studies showing the harm of vaccines. They just "somehow" get buried. William Thompson, a CDC researcher, admitted to altering data for the MMR, showing that African American boys have a greater risk of autism with this vaccine. The news shows you what they want you to see. Fear mongering. Vaccine manufacturers were released from any liability in 1986. Therefore if a person has an adverse reaction, they cannot sue. Since that law went into effect, the vaccine schedule went from about 10 vaccines in childhood to over 70. There are many adverse vaccine reactions reported, you just don't hear about them. When something happens just after a vaccine, "it can't be that". There is info out there. Many pediatricians do not agree with the current vaccine schedule. But those doctors are called "quacks". Their medical opinion is somehow less than a pro vax doctor. We have more childhood diseases and serious issues than ever before. And measles is not a "massive health threat". More fear mongering. Consider looking at the info with an open mind. Most people refuse to even consider the possible harm that could be caused. No one will protect your child more than you.
Please read
https://healthfreedomidaho.org/illogical-fear
Message edited 3/1/2019 2:38:30 PM.
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| Posted 3/1/19 2:36 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by heynow
Not meant with any disrespect, but if you think our government agencies are legitimate with vaccine studies, you are naive. The vaccine industry is a billion dollar industry. There are many studies showing the harm of vaccines. They just "somehow" get buried. William Thompson, a CDC researcher, admitted to altering data for the MMR, showing that African American boys have a greater risk of autism with this vaccine. The news shows you what they want you to see. Fear mongering. Vaccine manufacturers were released from any liability in 1986. Therefore if a person has an adverse reaction, they cannot sue. Since that law went into effect, the vaccine schedule went from about 10 vaccines in childhood to over 70. There are many adverse vaccine reactions reported, you just don't hear about them. When something happens just after a vaccine, "it can't be that". There is info out there. Many pediatricians do not agree with the current vaccine schedule. But those doctors are called "quacks". Their medical opinion is somehow less than a pro vax doctor. We have more childhood diseases and serious issues than ever before. And measles is not a "massive health threat". More fear mongering. Consider looking at the info with an open mind. Most people refuse to even consider the possible harm that could be caused. No one will protect your child more than you.
Please read
https://healthfreedomidaho.org/illogical-fear
OK person who joined LIF just to post this-
So let's say you're right
And vaccines are the devil. And an elaborate scam by our gov't to harm us and make money.
What is the alternative?
We don't vaccinate anymore?
Take our chances with polio coming back?
Small pox?
Whopping cough that babies die from?
Yes?
Message edited 3/1/2019 2:52:49 PM.
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| Posted 3/1/19 2:40 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by heynow
Not meant with any disrespect, but if you think our government agencies are legitimate with vaccine studies, you are naive. The vaccine industry is a billion dollar industry. There are many studies showing the harm of vaccines. They just "somehow" get buried. William Thompson, a CDC researcher, admitted to altering data for the MMR, showing that African American boys have a greater risk of autism with this vaccine. The news shows you what they want you to see. Fear mongering. Vaccine manufacturers were released from any liability in 1986. Therefore if a person has an adverse reaction, they cannot sue. Since that law went into effect, the vaccine schedule went from about 10 vaccines in childhood to over 70. There are many adverse vaccine reactions reported, you just don't hear about them. When something happens just after a vaccine, "it can't be that". There is info out there. Many pediatricians do not agree with the current vaccine schedule. But those doctors are called "quacks". Their medical opinion is somehow less than a pro vax doctor. We have more childhood diseases and serious issues than ever before. And measles is not a "massive health threat". More fear mongering. Consider looking at the info with an open mind. Most people refuse to even consider the possible harm that could be caused. No one will protect your child more than you.
Please read
https://healthfreedomidaho.org/illogical-fear
OK person who joined LIF just to post this-
So let's say you're right
And vaccines are the devil. And an elaborate scam by our gov't to harm us and make money.
What is the alternative?
We don't vaccinate anymore?
Take our chances with polio coming back
Small pox?
Whopping cough that babies die from?
Yes?
Don't forget to add: get your tin foil hats ready!
Message edited 3/1/2019 2:43:43 PM.
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| Posted 3/1/19 2:43 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by heynow
... William Thompson, a CDC researcher, admitted to altering data for the MMR, showing that African American boys have a greater risk of autism with this vaccine. ...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bad-medicine/
That was disproven....
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| Posted 3/1/19 2:59 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by heynow
... Since that law went into effect, the vaccine schedule went from about 10 vaccines in childhood to over 70. ...
https://vaxopedia.org/2018/07/15/do-kids-really-get-72-doses-of-vaccines/
More fear-mongering and "alternative math"....
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| Posted 3/1/19 3:03 PM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
I do vaccinate but definitely do them very spaced. I truthfully believe that all the preservatives and crap in them aren't good but give my kids what they need to go to school. My 2 daughters are carriers of the MTHFR gene and my one daughter did suffer an injury from the Prevnar one and I actually don't give either one of them that one.
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| Posted 3/1/19 3:03 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
|
Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by heynow
...Many pediatricians do not agree with the current vaccine schedule. But those doctors are called "quacks". Their medical opinion is somehow less than a pro vax doctor. ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/measles-outbreak/doctors-agree-space-out-kids-vaccines-n315261
His team surveyed 534 pediatricians and family doctors. Nearly 93 percent said they’d been asked by parents of children under 2 to delay or spread out vaccines. Of them, 37 percent said they often or always agreed to do so. Another 37 percent said they sometimes did.
So that’s 74 percent of doctors agreeing to alter the vaccine schedule against expert advice and against their own training.
When asked why they agreed to alter the vaccine schedule, most pediatricians said they were worried the patients would just find another doctor who would. “They wouldn’t have any patients,” O’Leary said.
The doctors don't disagree with the schedule, they just allow parents to override their better judgement. HUGE difference.... and more "creative math"....
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| Posted 3/1/19 3:06 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54917 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by heynow
... William Thompson, a CDC researcher, admitted to altering data for the MMR, showing that African American boys have a greater risk of autism with this vaccine. ...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bad-medicine/
That was disproven....
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| Posted 3/1/19 3:09 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by GoldenRod
The doctors don't disagree with the schedule, they just allow parents to override their better judgement. HUGE difference.... and more "creative math"....
They are also likely worried that if they go in too hard they will cause parents who are already being swayed by this nonsense to not vaccinate at all.
I’d be interested to see what would happen if all doctors refused anti-vaxxers. Would they take their kids to shamans? The neighbor selling MLM essential oils?
Perhaps in addition to NYS cracking down on these bs exemptions there needs to be a more widespread education campaign. These have historically been targeted to lower income/disadvantaged populations but I really think they need to cast a wider net. Put things into very simple, elementary level terms. Really show what can happen to a child who gets pneumococcal pneumonia, meningitis, etc. Share stories from families who have lost their children. Put it in perspective.
When I hear from parents who have lost a child to cancer, their motivation is of course to honor the child but also to raise awareness and increase funding. Part of why these anti-vaxxers don’t get it is they’ve never seen anyone die from vaccine preventable illnesses. Most of us understand the magnitude of this but there are clearly those who it isn’t sinking in for. Maybe if it gets shoved down their throats they’ll see the light.
Or, the state can just say no shots, no school, no exceptions and see how that goes over. That would be cheaper.
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| Posted 3/1/19 4:02 PM |
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by heynow
Please read
https://healthfreedomidaho.org/illogical-fear
What does reading this accomplish other than proving that you're gullible and don't know how to site to a proper source? This is a POLITICAL website trying to promote their POLITICAL agenda, which seems to include a lot of conspiracy theories.
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| Posted 3/1/19 4:15 PM |
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schmora15
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 2476 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by GoldenRod
The doctors don't disagree with the schedule, they just allow parents to override their better judgement. HUGE difference.... and more "creative math"....
They are also likely worried that if they go in too hard they will cause parents who are already being swayed by this nonsense to not vaccinate at all.
I’d be interested to see what would happen if all doctors refused anti-vaxxers. Would they take their kids to shamans? The neighbor selling MLM essential oils?
Perhaps in addition to NYS cracking down on these bs exemptions there needs to be a more widespread education campaign. These have historically been targeted to lower income/disadvantaged populations but I really think they need to cast a wider net. Put things into very simple, elementary level terms. Really show what can happen to a child who gets pneumococcal pneumonia, meningitis, etc. Share stories from families who have lost their children. Put it in perspective.
When I hear from parents who have lost a child to cancer, their motivation is of course to honor the child but also to raise awareness and increase funding. Part of why these anti-vaxxers don’t get it is they’ve never seen anyone die from vaccine preventable illnesses. Most of us understand the magnitude of this but there are clearly those who it isn’t sinking in for. Maybe if it gets shoved down their throats they’ll see the light.
Or, the state can just say no shots, no school, no exceptions and see how that goes over. That would be cheaper.
Doesn't this concern you that the government may eventually do this? Do you really want to lose your rights as a parent to have a say in your family's health care? Whether you are pro-vax or against them or somewhere in the middle, I just can't grasp how anyone would be supportive of it. If there is a grey area, people should have an option with any procedure. Vaccine or not.
There's so much fear surrounding this topic it's almost unbelievable. Many of these parents aren't "anti-vaxxers" as they are being labelled; but pushing for safer vaccines. Is that so bad?
People are just so set in their own thoughts that even if they are listening to another parents concerns what's registering is totally different and they are just set in their own mindset. Do you really think that Pharma has no control over this dialogue that's unfolding?
Message edited 3/1/2019 4:21:46 PM.
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| Posted 3/1/19 4:20 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by schmora15
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by GoldenRod
The doctors don't disagree with the schedule, they just allow parents to override their better judgement. HUGE difference.... and more "creative math"....
They are also likely worried that if they go in too hard they will cause parents who are already being swayed by this nonsense to not vaccinate at all.
I’d be interested to see what would happen if all doctors refused anti-vaxxers. Would they take their kids to shamans? The neighbor selling MLM essential oils?
Perhaps in addition to NYS cracking down on these bs exemptions there needs to be a more widespread education campaign. These have historically been targeted to lower income/disadvantaged populations but I really think they need to cast a wider net. Put things into very simple, elementary level terms. Really show what can happen to a child who gets pneumococcal pneumonia, meningitis, etc. Share stories from families who have lost their children. Put it in perspective.
When I hear from parents who have lost a child to cancer, their motivation is of course to honor the child but also to raise awareness and increase funding. Part of why these anti-vaxxers don’t get it is they’ve never seen anyone die from vaccine preventable illnesses. Most of us understand the magnitude of this but there are clearly those who it isn’t sinking in for. Maybe if it gets shoved down their throats they’ll see the light.
Or, the state can just say no shots, no school, no exceptions and see how that goes over. That would be cheaper.
Doesn't this concern you that the government may eventually do this? Do you really want to lose your rights as a parent to have a say in your family's health care? Whether you are pro-vax or against them or somewhere in the middle, I just can't grasp how anyone would be supportive of it. If there is a grey area, people should have an option with any procedure. Vaccine or not.
There's so much fear surrounding this topic it's almost unbelievable. Many of these parents aren't "anti-vaxxers" as they are being labelled; but pushing for safer vaccines. Is that so bad?
People are just so set in their own thoughts that even if they are listening to another parents concerns what's registering is totally different and they are just set in their own mindset. Do you really think that Pharma has no control over this dialogue that's unfolding?
I am comfortable with the CDC and NIH setting regulations concerning healthcare for all Americans. They are qualified to do this, far more qualified than I or anyone on these boards are. I believe they have the best interests of public health in mind. I have a lot of doubts about our government. I do not doubt the CDC or NIH.
When I got pregnant I understood that I had a responsibility to my child but also to the community and in order to be a responsible parent I had to do my part to keep not just my child, but other children safe through my actions.
I do not believe that vaccines are unsafe. Do I think people can have reactions, sometimes fatal? Yes. I know they do. It is no different than a drug reaction. Not every chemical compound agrees with every person. The chances of a severe reaction are incredibly small. As with any drug or procedure, the benefits outweigh the risks.
To say pharma has no stake in this is silly. Of course they do. They make a lot of money off vaccines (though the money issue is much more complicated than it seems). I do not believe that they are pushing unsafe vaccines. The process to get drugs and vaccines approved is not easy. It’s an extremely difficult process and no one, including pharma is looking to harm anyone. The regulations are very well written. They are a business, yes, but they are integral to healthcare and I fear where we would be without the time and money they pour into R&D every day.
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| Posted 3/1/19 4:51 PM |
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schmora15
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 2476 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Anti Vaccination _ thoughts?
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by schmora15
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by GoldenRod
The doctors don't disagree with the schedule, they just allow parents to override their better judgement. HUGE difference.... and more "creative math"....
They are also likely worried that if they go in too hard they will cause parents who are already being swayed by this nonsense to not vaccinate at all.
I’d be interested to see what would happen if all doctors refused anti-vaxxers. Would they take their kids to shamans? The neighbor selling MLM essential oils?
Perhaps in addition to NYS cracking down on these bs exemptions there needs to be a more widespread education campaign. These have historically been targeted to lower income/disadvantaged populations but I really think they need to cast a wider net. Put things into very simple, elementary level terms. Really show what can happen to a child who gets pneumococcal pneumonia, meningitis, etc. Share stories from families who have lost their children. Put it in perspective.
When I hear from parents who have lost a child to cancer, their motivation is of course to honor the child but also to raise awareness and increase funding. Part of why these anti-vaxxers don’t get it is they’ve never seen anyone die from vaccine preventable illnesses. Most of us understand the magnitude of this but there are clearly those who it isn’t sinking in for. Maybe if it gets shoved down their throats they’ll see the light.
Or, the state can just say no shots, no school, no exceptions and see how that goes over. That would be cheaper.
Doesn't this concern you that the government may eventually do this? Do you really want to lose your rights as a parent to have a say in your family's health care? Whether you are pro-vax or against them or somewhere in the middle, I just can't grasp how anyone would be supportive of it. If there is a grey area, people should have an option with any procedure. Vaccine or not.
There's so much fear surrounding this topic it's almost unbelievable. Many of these parents aren't "anti-vaxxers" as they are being labelled; but pushing for safer vaccines. Is that so bad?
People are just so set in their own thoughts that even if they are listening to another parents concerns what's registering is totally different and they are just set in their own mindset. Do you really think that Pharma has no control over this dialogue that's unfolding?
I am comfortable with the CDC and NIH setting regulations concerning healthcare for all Americans. They are qualified to do this, far more qualified than I or anyone on these boards are. I believe they have the best interests of public health in mind. I have a lot of doubts about our government. I do not doubt the CDC or NIH.
When I got pregnant I understood that I had a responsibility to my child but also to the community and in order to be a responsible parent I had to do my part to keep not just my child, but other children safe through my actions.
I do not believe that vaccines are unsafe. Do I think people can have reactions, sometimes fatal? Yes. I know they do. It is no different than a drug reaction. Not every chemical compound agrees with every person. The chances of a severe reaction are incredibly small. As with any drug or procedure, the benefits outweigh the risks.
To say pharma has no stake in this is silly. Of course they do. They make a lot of money off vaccines (though the money issue is much more complicated than it seems). I do not believe that they are pushing unsafe vaccines. The process to get drugs and vaccines approved is not easy. It’s an extremely difficult process and no one, including pharma is looking to harm anyone. The regulations are very well written. They are a business, yes, but they are integral to healthcare and I fear where we would be without the time and money they pour into R&D every day.
Don't you think the R&D would be better if done by an independent group, rather than one profiting from whether or not the vaccine is added to the schedule?
There is a long history of CDC members with conflicts of interest pertaining to patents related to vaccines. As well as issues with CDC members investing in healthcare stocks. Granted it's not everyone, but wouldn't that be reason enough for anyone to question the safety?
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| Posted 3/1/19 5:16 PM |
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