Visitors - if you rent.

My cousin stayed with us for a week last summer. He is planning to get an internship in NYC and it's looking good that he will get it. I told him he could stay with us for the summer.

Apparently we have a clause in our lease about informing them of guests for over a week. I don't know for sure that the cousin is coming yet and DH already opened his mouth to the landllord. I think he was just trying to be nice and he gets kind of type A about things. I think his mistake was saying that cousin would have a key. When he told me he said that I was upset because I knew that was something they wouldn't like Ithey also live in the house). I yelled at DH for 1 opening his mouth at this point and 2 starting with the key. I work from home and my mom already has an extra key, so he really wouldn't need a key. I don't know why DH opened that can of worms.

But anyway landlady calls ME tonight and tells me she and her DH are not comfortable with it and they would rather just have the two of us in the apartment.

I'm kind of pissed. it's a 2 bedroom apartment and it's just me and DH and I feel like I pay rent and I should be able to do what i want with the apt within reason.

I am pissed at DH for opening the door. I would have waiting until it was closer and just told them as a heads up, not started in with nonsense about a key and asking if they're comfortable.

Do you think it's reasonable for them to say we can't have a houseguest for the summer?

My cousin in 23 and one of the hardest working people I know. he's incredibly responsible, which DH explained.

Ugh., I'm so upset. I already told him he could stay with us and it's an unpaid internship. WWYD?

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

A houseguest for the summer can so easily be seen as a sublet, which often requires landlord consent and a credit check on that person. I see their point but as long as they receive the rent in full there should not be an issue for 3 people to live in a 2BR.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

I would just try and talk to them and explain the situation further. Tell her that it is your cousin and give her some background on him. Try and 'sell' him like you would try and sell yourself if you were trying to rent the apartment in the first place (non-smoker?, quiet?, out of the house all day? no additional noise?, etc.).

If your cousin is in a position to do so, you could also say that he could pay an extra $100 (or whatever you think is reasonable) for the month(s) he is staying there. If your utilities are included in your rent or are a set price each month you could also offer to pay more for electric if there would be another a/c running in his room for the summer.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

I can see it from both sides.

While I am sure you have made a correct assessment of him, as a landlord, they need to protect their interests as well.

I deal with landlord/tenant issues all the time with work and I have seen landlords get screwed over by people just moving someone in "for a bit", especially when it's not allowed in the first place.

What was he going to do if you did not offer him a place to stay?

Maybe you can have a discussion with the cousin about having a backup plan just in case.

It can be hard on a couple having someone stay with them for even a few days, let alone the summer, so that's another thought to take into consideration as well.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

Unless I'm mistaken, the clause says you need to inform them, not obtain their permission. You should not need their ok to have your cousin stay. I would probably nicely respond to the landlord. Explain that your cousin is a great kid, he will be working an unpaid internship, and it's only for the summer. But I would also make it clear that you are giving her the heads up that this is going to happen. It's not like you're trying to fit 4 people into a studio.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

I am on the opposite end of this. I rent a 2 bedroom to a couple. We specifically rented to a childless couple because we didn't want a ton of people walking around above us.
The couple we rented to are both originally from another country. They constantly have "visitors" who stay anywhere from 2 weeks to a month and are given a key. They come and go as they please.

I understand you have the extra bedroom and see it as no big deal. As long as it wasn't all the time I wouldn't mind it. But extra people = higher utility costs. I am paying for extra people to shower everyday etc. It is also my home and I don't feel comfortable with strangers coming and going all the time.

Just wanted to give another POV.

Visitors - if you rent.

you have a lease that was signed for 2 people. The LL based their rent on that. It is standard for leases to state that no one other than the people on that lease live there. ANd IMO your cousin is not a guest when it is for an extended time....they become a roommate.

I think your DH was int he right to tell them and I think your LL have every right to say no. It is still their house even though you rent there. It would be a bit different if it were an apt building but you would still need to follow the lease.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

How is the setup? Is it a house w the LL living there? That would be tough. Wait u until it is a definite than bring it it up

Visitors - if you rent.

If my dh did that and the landlord then called me I would have been like NO, that's not what's going on dh got it wrong, this is what's happening...
If your landlady is a reasonable woman she should be able to understand that dhs make mistakes all the time bc of "hearing problems" lol kwim?

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

As a LL who rents the upstairs apartment out to tenants, I just wanted to also offer a POV...

- Your LL may have been burned in the past by a tenant who had a 'short-term arrangement' that turned into something much, much longer. That happened to us. A two-week stay turned into a 5-month ordeal, mail being sent to our house for some random chick, etc. It ended with a couple very long talks, revisions to the lease the next time they were up for renewal, and new locks on the front door.

- The LL doesn't know this person. Much as you vouch for them, they will be living on premesis in the same house as the LL. The LL probably did a background check on you prior to renting it out...they don't know diddly about this person - a person who will have a key to their house. (Although you say that he won't, your DH said he would...)

- Do you pay your own gas/electric/water? If not, that's another factor. A month of extra showers, dishes, toilet flushing...sounds funny, but it adds up.

If you have a good relationship with the LL, then you should try talking to her about this. If need be, tell her that you'll give her something in writing so she knows that you mean it - the cousin will be here for only a month, and that's it. And if you don't pay your own utilities, definitely offer to help with that...I would say offering $50 would be reasonable. Just clarify things. Hope you guys can come to a compromise!

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

I think I'm going to try to talk to them. I don't know what the wording is in the lease. I have to look. I was going to appraoch it differently. Wait until it's closer and just give them a heads up, rather than asking permission. DH tends to get diahrrea of the mouth and I think he just talked to o much about the lease and him having a key and them being uncomfortable. I think he opened 100 doors for them to be upset.

I'm going to look at the lease, wait until it gets closer and then talk to them again.

We're super good tenants. We pay our rent 2 weeks in advance, we're incredibly quiet and I mentioned the 2BR to note that I'm not trying to cram people in who don't fit.

As far as water goes, I'd be more than happy to give an extra $50 a month for the water although DH very often showers at the gym when he goes and I'm sure he would do so more when there are 3 of us and 1 bathroom.

I don't know if they met my cousin last year. If they did it was for not more than 2 seconds. but he's seriously the kind of kid that upon meeting him you'd give him your car keys and house keys without hesitation. Just polite, responsible, etc. He's not the kind of kid who would bring random girls home at 3am or anything, and I wouldn't let him. He doesn't smoke or drink, just a good kid. I know they don't know that, but it sucks.

We have a great relationship with our LL. We know them through church. So they know people who have known me since birth. We're going away on Friday (blizzard pending) and my said she'd look after my mom while I'm away and that her husband can hep if anything goes wrong with the house (mom is going through some stuff health wise and with her house). She also knows we might have to move to help my mom, and she said don't worry about the lease, worry about mom. So that's why it never occurred to me that it would even be an issue. I think when we went over that lease everything on it she was very like "oh but don't worry about that, we'll work it out" about everything. Never even occured to me it would be an issue.

my cousin just emailed me today to ask about living expenses. I'm not going to tell him there's an issue until it gets closer.more definite.

The landlady said it would "be ok for a week or two", so worse comes to worst he could stay with us for 2 weeks, go to my mom's for 2 weeks and come back but I feel once she sees how quiet he is in 2 weeks and meet him they might say he can stay.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

hopefully we can talk to them and work it out. If my mom stays where she is, he could stay with her, but she is not easy to live with, honestly.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

My LL is friends with my mom, so maybe my mom can vouch for her nephew and it will carry more weight.

He's absoutely not moving in forever. It's JUST for an internship - 2mos.

We had a great time haviing him here. I know a summer is a lot more than a week, and it will be a challenge. I have to either move my office to give him a real bedroom, or put him with more space and an air conditioner (we pay electric) in our dining room. We'll make do. I know it will be tough but it's such a great opportunity for him. Staying with us is his only option with staying with my mom a possibility but my cousin doesn't do well with high stress people and my mom is very high stress and likes everything to a T. I don't know if he'd be able to handle that

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

Visitors - if you rent.

legally, tenants are entitled to have one roommate (and that roommate's dependent children) and do NOT need the landlord's permission, regardless of what the lease says.

ETA: of course, practically speaking, the flip side of asserting this is that your landlord can decide not to renew the lease and you'd have to move

Message edited 2/7/2013 10:38:21 AM.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

oh wow, it looks like she legally can't tell me not to.

but I'm confused by this: Occupancy isn't limited just to those tenants named in the lease. If you're the only tenant, you can add members of your immediate family plus an extra, unrelated occupant and her children. If you're one of the tenants on the lease, you and the other tenants may add immediate family members and unrelated people as new occupants – as long as the total number of occupants (not counting unrelated occupants' children) doesn't exceed the number of tenants listed in the lease.

I'm not sure what they mean about exceeding the number of occupants on the lease. DH and I are on the lease. So isn't adding anyone technically going over that? Or is it that we're two people so we can't add more than 2 people?

I find it weird that it's legal for us to just bring people to live with us indefinitely without permission

Visitors - if you rent.

4. Any lease or rental agreement for residential premises entered into
by two or more tenants shall be construed to permit occupancy by
tenants, immediate family of tenants, occupants and dependent children
of occupants; provided that the total number of tenants and occupants,
excluding occupants' dependent children, does not exceed the number of
tenants specified in the current lease or rental agreement, and that at
least one tenant or a tenants' spouse occupies the premises as his
primary residence.


This section would lead me to believe that you can't just add your cousin. THey do not define immdeiate family but as an attoney I would argue that a cousin is def not immediate.

Visitors - if you rent.

it doesn't matter whether or not he is immediate fam.

you can absolutely bring a roommate in, whether he is immediate fam, extended fam, or some dude you met on the street

i'd argue that you and your husband are each other's immediate fam and count as one tenant for these purposes.

the part about not exceeding the number of people on the lease i think refers to if there are 2 roommates who are on the lease, one leaves.

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

This is pretty clear:\

Article 7, Section 235-f(2) states that "[i]t shall be unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of residential premises, by express lease terms of otherwise, to a tenant or tenants... Any such restriction in a lease... shall be unenforceable as against public policy."


Thanks so much! At least now I know when we approach it again, they really can't say no

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

But now THIS is conusing:
]
You do not have a right to a roommate if:

• you live in public housing or most subsidized housing, or

• if two or more people have signed the lease, and your lease does not expressly give you permission to live with an additional person.

Visitors - if you rent.

not sure where you are copying and pasting from, it might not be reputably. leases don't have to give permission to live with another person. you and your hubs aren't really roommates. that is what they really mean when they say "two or more people"

Re: Visitors - if you rent.

I would just say he is staying a couple of weeks with you. Then say shit happens and he needs to stay for a couple more because the alternate plan didn't work out. I think your LL is being ridiculous.

Visitors - if you rent.

I would decide how much you want to live there past this stay of your cousin. Whether or not your LL can tell you yes or no might not be the big issue. They can easily not renew your lease or find soemthing along the way to evict you for.

I would think big picture here and if I really wanted to stay I am not sure I would make waves with the LL

Also I read the Roommate law different than the other poster so if you really want to use that as backup I would def do soem research into it and find out more about it and how thing are interpreted.