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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9537 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
The 4th Amendment to the Constitution says:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
There is a warrant exception for border searches, which includes international airports. However, that exception is limited and does not permit dignity and privacy to be thrown by the wayside without reasonable suspicion.
So, if I'm traveling to Disney with my DH & DC, and these safeguards in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights exist, someone please explain why an invasive search without reasonable suspicion should be permitted??????????????
Oh, and before anybody says that I traveling is a priviledge and not a right, and therefore I should just stay home - you are incorrect . . . the Supreme Court has already ruled that freedom to travel between the states is a fundamental precept to personal liberty (aka a right guaranteed by the US Constitution).
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Posted 11/22/10 12:45 PM  |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
there are separate lines for the scanners and pat downs. if you don't wanted to be pat down before you're scanned then don't go in that line. if they have reason to think you're carrying something after you've been scanned then they're going to search you. children under 12 cannot be pat down so your dc won't be. the pat downs are not invasive. they're not cavity searches, they don't use instruments... they PAT you down.
yea, travel between states is a right. flying is not. if you're so opposed to the new regulations then there are other ways to travel.
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| Posted 11/22/10 12:49 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
While I agree 1000% with you...did the Patriot Act change that?
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| Posted 11/22/10 12:51 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9537 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by mrsBLT
there are separate lines for the scanners and pat downs. if you don't wanted to be pat down before you're scanned then don't go in that line. if they have reason to think you're carrying something after you've been scanned then they're going to search you. children under 12 cannot be pat down so your dc won't be. the pat downs are not invasive. they're not cavity searches, they don't use instruments... they PAT you down.
yea, travel between states is a right. flying is not. if you're so opposed to the new regulations then there are other ways to travel.
To address your second point first . . . honestly if I had known about the scanners before booking my vacation I would have paid double the airfare price to fly out of Islip without the scanners, than what I'm paying to fly out of JFK with the scanners.
However, since I didn't, and I have non-refundable airfare, I am now stuck in this situation.
As for the pat down . . . one person who opted for the pat down said "if someone had touched me like that in a bar I would have called the cops." That is not just a pat down. And TSA head was on one of the news shows with video footage - they are putting their hands inside bra cups, and inside underwear during this "pat down" - again, not what I would consider just a pat down.
And IF children under 12 aren't subject to a pat down, can a parent refuse to have them go through a full image body scanner????? The radiation amounts might be considered "small" for an adult, but how are they for young children? There is a lot less surface area for a child to disipate the harmful effects. As I said on the other thread - the images I've seen that these scanners produce would violate child pornography laws. How is that appropriate???
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| Posted 11/22/10 12:59 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9537 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by nrthshgrl
While I agree 1000% with you...did the Patriot Act change that?
The Supreme Court hasn't ruled yet on whether the Patriot Act has overruled their decisions on search & seizure, stop & frisk, and warrantless searches. (at least not that I have found in my cursory search)
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:00 PM |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by DancinBarefoot
honestly if I had known about the scanners before booking my vacation I would have paid double the airfare price to fly out of Islip without the scanners, than what I'm paying to fly out of JFK with the scanners.
However, since I didn't, and I have non-refundable airfare, I am now stuck in this situation.
My DH and his brother flew out of JFK last week and they didn't have the scanners, but when they came home West Palm Beach did have them. So maybe it won't be an issue for you, unless JFK put them in place since a week ago Sunday. 
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:07 PM |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by DancinBarefoot
Posted by mrsBLT
there are separate lines for the scanners and pat downs. if you don't wanted to be pat down before you're scanned then don't go in that line. if they have reason to think you're carrying something after you've been scanned then they're going to search you. children under 12 cannot be pat down so your dc won't be. the pat downs are not invasive. they're not cavity searches, they don't use instruments... they PAT you down.
yea, travel between states is a right. flying is not. if you're so opposed to the new regulations then there are other ways to travel.
To address your second point first . . . honestly if I had known about the scanners before booking my vacation I would have paid double the airfare price to fly out of Islip without the scanners, than what I'm paying to fly out of JFK with the scanners.
However, since I didn't, and I have non-refundable airfare, I am now stuck in this situation.
As for the pat down . . . one person who opted for the pat down said "if someone had touched me like that in a bar I would have called the cops." That is not just a pat down. And TSA head was on one of the news shows with video footage - they are putting their hands inside bra cups, and inside underwear during this "pat down" - again, not what I would consider just a pat down.
And IF children under 12 aren't subject to a pat down, can a parent refuse to have them go through a full image body scanner????? The radiation amounts might be considered "small" for an adult, but how are they for young children? There is a lot less surface area for a child to disipate the harmful effects. As I said on the other thread - the images I've seen that these scanners produce would violate child pornography laws. How is that appropriate???
no you can't refuse it - they have to go through some kind of security procedure. i wouldn't worry about the amount of radiation - they give off less than a cell phone and only about 2 or 3% of the radiation we endure on a regular day. the pictures the scanners show are not like a regular camera picture. they look like this:
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:11 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Funny how conveniently there is so much detail but the nipples are not showing there, neither the genitalia. How magical!!!!!
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:19 PM |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by smdl
Funny how conveniently there is so much detail but the nipples are not showing there, neither the genitalia. How magical!!!!!
thats because the darkened details are metal. do you have metal nips? cause i sure don't 
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:29 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by mrsBLT
Posted by smdl
Funny how conveniently there is so much detail but the nipples are not showing there, neither the genitalia. How magical!!!!!
thats because the darkened details are metal. do you have metal nips? cause i sure don't
You can see the mouth lips don't you? But you can't see the nipples. 
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:35 PM |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
I read that he private areas are being blurred. I am sure it involves some manual adjustment since every body is shaped differently which means TSA screeners are most likely seeing naked images. I do not believe for one second that the images are not saved since there are images floating around on the internet. They may not have a name attached to them (or maybe they do, I don't know) but if it's being transmitted anywhere - it's vulnerable to being published.
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:43 PM |
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Jonsgirl04
Love my two girls! xoxo
Member since 9/08 6079 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
On channel two news 2 days ago..they said they can actually see when you have a tampon in..
Hello My name is stephanie. As you can see iam about 20lbs overweight, I have DD tatas and as you now know, I have my period! Have a great day!!
Message edited 11/22/2010 1:47:00 PM.
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:46 PM |
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MrsMC107
LIF Toddler
Member since 1/10 451 total posts
Name:
Meg
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Christine
I read that he private areas are being blurred. I am sure it involves some manual adjustment since every body is shaped differently which means TSA screeners are most likely seeing naked images. I do not believe for one second that the images are not saved since there are images floating around on the internet. They may not have a name attached to them (or maybe they do, I don't know) but if it's being transmitted anywhere - it's vulnerable to being published.
and then once they are printed w/o consent, i wonder if theTSA is liable...or do they have some sort of clause that states that the pics are their property - regardless of the fact that they are pics of individuals?
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:46 PM |
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MrsMC107
LIF Toddler
Member since 1/10 451 total posts
Name:
Meg
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
so if a child cant refuse a security measure and they are exempt from the "pat" down...then they have no choice but to go thru the scanners?? or is there another less physical, intrusive pat down alternative for children?
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:49 PM |
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apples99
love my sunshine..
Member since 11/08 1535 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Jonsgirl04
On channel two news 2 days ago..they said they can actually see when you have a tampon in..
 omggg
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:50 PM |
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Jonsgirl04
Love my two girls! xoxo
Member since 9/08 6079 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by ar31
Posted by Jonsgirl04
On channel two news 2 days ago..they said they can actually see when you have a tampon in..
omggg
I wonder if because they cant clearly tell what it is if that would mean you would have to remove it..I would be mortified..Anyone know the rules about that?
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| Posted 11/22/10 1:59 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
of course you are free to travel between the states...and in your car you can do whatever you want.
but in a plane your personal freedoms mingle with everyone elses, the public good and all that jazz.
and stating the obvious, there no airplanes in 1776. there weren't even many cruise ships 
so the idea of this kind of travel was unheard of.
the public's right to be protected from being blown out of the sky or having their plane being used a missile overrides your personal rights.
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| Posted 11/22/10 2:01 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Ophelia
of course you are free to travel between the states...and in your car you can do whatever you want.
but in a plane your personal freedoms mingle with everyone elses, the public good and all that jazz.
and stating the obvious, there no airplanes in 1776. there weren't even many cruise ships
so the idea of this kind of travel was unheard of.
the public's right to be protected from being blown out of the sky or having their plane being used a missile overrides your personal rights.
I am not ready to get a pelvic exam in the name of security!
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| Posted 11/22/10 2:03 PM |
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Lina
My angel is finally here
Member since 5/10 2559 total posts
Name:
Lindsay
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Ophelia
of course you are free to travel between the states...and in your car you can do whatever you want.
but in a plane your personal freedoms mingle with everyone elses, the public good and all that jazz.
and stating the obvious, there no airplanes in 1776. there weren't even many cruise ships
so the idea of this kind of travel was unheard of.
the public's right to be protected from being blown out of the sky or having their plane being used a missile overrides your personal rights.
ITA! They also didnt have people blowing up buildings using airplanes and making bombs out of underwear.
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| Posted 11/22/10 4:39 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Jonsgirl04
Posted by ar31
Posted by Jonsgirl04
On channel two news 2 days ago..they said they can actually see when you have a tampon in..
omggg
I wonder if because they cant clearly tell what it is if that would mean you would have to remove it..I would be mortified..Anyone know the rules about that?
What the heck kind of tampons are they using that a metal detector would pick it up?
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| Posted 11/22/10 5:04 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9537 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by Jonsgirl04
Posted by ar31
Posted by Jonsgirl04
On channel two news 2 days ago..they said they can actually see when you have a tampon in..
omggg
I wonder if because they cant clearly tell what it is if that would mean you would have to remove it..I would be mortified..Anyone know the rules about that?
What the heck kind of tampons are they using that a metal detector would pick it up?
It's not the metal detectors, it's those new full body scanners that allegedly show this.
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| Posted 11/22/10 5:24 PM |
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skew
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 6794 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - Full Body Scanners
Posted by Christine
I read that he private areas are being blurred. I am sure it involves some manual adjustment since every body is shaped differently which means TSA screeners are most likely seeing naked images. I do not believe for one second that the images are not saved since there are images floating around on the internet. They may not have a name attached to them (or maybe they do, I don't know) but if it's being transmitted anywhere - it's vulnerable to being published.
I agree and would therefore opt for the pat down. I would much rather deal with a few minutes of embarrassing groping than wonder if and where the body scan images are being stored and who might be viewing.
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| Posted 11/22/10 5:37 PM |
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