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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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The cure IS worse!
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
I went to the Institute of Audio Research and received a degree in Audio Engineering.
It's not that I found them difficult because it related to something I have a real passion for which is music. So I think it all depends on your perspective. Some of it was truly boring but most of it was very interesting. Like copyright law and publishing rights, things like that.
I used to work for a school that one of the degree's was Recording...they laid me off when I became ill but now I am going to go back and test a new degree they are offering, I think it should be fun.
Anyway, audio engineering is quite cool in my book!
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Posted 9/18/07 10:40 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
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Re: Citing your sources
Message edited 11/11/2011 6:33:33 PM.
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| Posted 9/18/07 10:41 PM |
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
This is an interesting topic because I took copyright law in school and at the time the internet was not as big as it is now. I wonder if it is considered public domain unless otherwise stated?
no - you have to cite your sources - if I do a pwerpoint presentation, and cite info I got from a website, I always put the source on the slide (HeadInjury, Inc)
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| Posted 9/19/07 6:03 AM |
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Lanabean
Yoginis
Member since 11/05 9202 total posts
Name:
Lana
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Re: Citing your sources
I do it on Celeb, but I always say where I got it from....in a paper/report...cite. On the gossip board, I think it's OK! 
Message edited 9/19/2007 7:44:02 AM.
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| Posted 9/19/07 7:34 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Re: Citing your sources
speaking specifically to the celeb board, I'm sure no one thinks that "gossipqueen" is trying to pass off everything she posts as her own.
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| Posted 9/19/07 7:41 AM |
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JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
This is an interesting topic because I took copyright law in school and at the time the internet was not as big as it is now. I wonder if it is considered public domain unless otherwise stated?
no - you have to cite your sources - if I do a pwerpoint presentation, and cite info I got from a website, I always put the source on the slide (HeadInjury, Inc)
I agree, I don't know the law exactly but from what I was taught anything you get from someone else nees to be cited. Even if the powerpoint is just for my small group, if I take a picture from a website I have to cite it. and if someone else gave me an idea I would have to cite it like that ("So-and-so, personal communication")
On here if I ever took something from another source I wouldn't pretend it was my own words, I would say I got it from another source. But I admit on these boards it's more casual, and sometimes people are in a rush and may forget, so if someone didn't give a source for something I was curious about I would ask them- and if it were me who forgot to put the source I would have no problem giving someone my source if they asked. But yeah, they should cite their references in the first place.
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| Posted 9/19/07 8:24 AM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Very interesting subject to me.
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
This is an interesting topic because I took copyright law in school and at the time the internet was not as big as it is now. I wonder if it is considered public domain unless otherwise stated?
At least with photographs, it absolutely is not public domain. My photos are copyright to me as soon as they are saved to media - whether it be an image on a negative or a file on a memory card.
When you make money from your photographs, this becomes a sticky situation. Also a sticky situation is hotlinking. This is a blog I wrote that explains what happens when we (and I include me in that category) hotlink:
What’s hotlinking?
Hotlinking is when you are on an internet page and you insert an image from my webpage by using the URL. You know, that’s that address that starts with http and ends with .jpg. This can be done by using the IMG or IMG SRC tags before the URL.
Why is hotlinking bad?
Because every time you spell out my URL in order to reproduce my content on another webpage (such as setting my wallpaper as your website’s background), you are doing two things; stealing bandwidth and stealing copyrighted material.
What’s bandwidth theft?
My website is “hosted” by a company. I rent space from them and in turn, they give me a public place on the internet to show my website. That includes bandwidth. Bandwidth is the amount of data that is transferred between people viewing my content and my website’s host. I only pay for a certain amount. If I go over that amount, guess what? They charge me more.
So when I have all these people from myspace, xanga, livejournal and friendster finding my wallpaper and hotlinking to it, they are using my bandwidth each and every time someone loads their page. Last month alone, that included over 30,000 times my bandwidth was being used by these people. If I left this unchecked, that could start costing me some bucks.
What’s copyright theft?
So many people think anything that is found on the internet is free for the taking. That right-clicking on a picture and saving it is ok. It’s not. Photos are copyrighted the minute they are taken on the camera. So when you save my photos to your computer, you are stealing copyrighted material. When you put it on your own webpage without my consent and without giving me credit, it’s also stealing. The only material I specifically allow people to download is the wallpaper that has my copyright information on it.
So what do you do with all this information?
Be respectful of people’s hard work and don’t hotlink, steal their bandwidth and reproduce their copyrighted material without their permission. Instead, use a link to the original material on their page. Like this: http://www.greenfreak.net/
That way, people can come here and see what you want them to see. It covers all the bases and makes people like me very very happy. :)
I solved this problem by disabling hotlinking to all images on my site (and made exceptions like LIFamilies), and I moved the largest images, the wallpaper, to Flickr.
This is why you may be able to see a hotlinked picture at first, but it becomes a red X later.
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| Posted 9/19/07 8:38 AM |
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JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by greenfreak
Very interesting subject to me.
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
This is an interesting topic because I took copyright law in school and at the time the internet was not as big as it is now. I wonder if it is considered public domain unless otherwise stated?
At least with photographs, it absolutely is not public domain. My photos are copyright to me as soon as they are saved to media - whether it be an image on a negative or a file on a memory card.
When you make money from your photographs, this becomes a sticky situation. Also a sticky situation is hotlinking. This is a blog I wrote that explains what happens when we (and I include me in that category) hotlink:
What’s hotlinking?
Hotlinking is when you are on an internet page and you insert an image from my webpage by using the URL. You know, that’s that address that starts with http and ends with .jpg. This can be done by using the IMG or IMG SRC tags before the URL.
Why is hotlinking bad?
Because every time you spell out my URL in order to reproduce my content on another webpage (such as setting my wallpaper as your website’s background), you are doing two things; stealing bandwidth and stealing copyrighted material.
What’s bandwidth theft?
My website is “hosted” by a company. I rent space from them and in turn, they give me a public place on the internet to show my website. That includes bandwidth. Bandwidth is the amount of data that is transferred between people viewing my content and my website’s host. I only pay for a certain amount. If I go over that amount, guess what? They charge me more.
So when I have all these people from myspace, xanga, livejournal and friendster finding my wallpaper and hotlinking to it, they are using my bandwidth each and every time someone loads their page. Last month alone, that included over 30,000 times my bandwidth was being used by these people. If I left this unchecked, that could start costing me some bucks.
What’s copyright theft?
So many people think anything that is found on the internet is free for the taking. That right-clicking on a picture and saving it is ok. It’s not. Photos are copyrighted the minute they are taken on the camera. So when you save my photos to your computer, you are stealing copyrighted material. When you put it on your own webpage without my consent and without giving me credit, it’s also stealing. The only material I specifically allow people to download is the wallpaper that has my copyright information on it.
So what do you do with all this information?
Be respectful of people’s hard work and don’t hotlink, steal their bandwidth and reproduce their copyrighted material without their permission. Instead, use a link to the original material on their page. Like this: http://www.greenfreak.net/
That way, people can come here and see what you want them to see. It covers all the bases and makes people like me very very happy. :)
I solved this problem by disabling hotlinking to all images on my site (and made exceptions like LIFamilies), and I moved the largest images, the wallpaper, to Flickr.
This is why you may be able to see a hotlinked picture at first, but it becomes a red X later.
Wow thanks for the info. I admit I have hotlinked images before on this site, I never thought about the bandwidth problem. Usually they're images from store websites that probably expect a huge amount of bandwidth, but now I will try to be more careful about this in the future.
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| Posted 9/19/07 8:47 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
speaking specifically to the celeb board, I'm sure no one thinks that "gossipqueen" is trying to pass off everything she posts as her own.
I agree. I don't really think it is necessary on here unless you are posting something which other people would want to follow up on (a link to a relevant article on Newsday, etc.). I consider this more of a conversational style of writing, and in personal letters or in everyday speaking I would never say "According to webster's dictionary, xyz...."
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| Posted 9/19/07 8:48 AM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by JessieQ
Wow thanks for the info. I admit I have hotlinked images before on this site, I never thought about the bandwidth problem. Usually they're images from store websites that probably expect a huge amount of bandwidth, but now I will try to be more careful about this in the future.
I've come to a happy medium (for me). If the photo is going to be free advertising for a website or product, I don't worry about hotlinking.
But if it's someone's personal website, I think twice about it.
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| Posted 9/19/07 8:57 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: Citing your sources
I usually provide a link to the source if it's available or at least cite the source if I remember it but will admit if I'm rushed, I don't always do it.
Hotlinking I am definitely guilty of with that definition. I guess copying the materials & then providing the link "steals" bandwith too. That being said, if your webpage is on the internet, I don't think there can be any expectation of privacy unless it's password protected.
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| Posted 9/19/07 9:04 AM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by nrthshgrl
That being said, if your webpage is on the internet, I don't think there can be any expectation of privacy unless it's password protected.
This saddens me, that a lot of people feel that way. I can't share my hobby with others without them believing it's their right to do with whatever they wish.
It's like you can't have a business website either, especially photography, for the same reason.
It surprises me that you feel that way, considering you are a professional photographer. You don't have a website for your business, I guess?
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| Posted 9/19/07 10:19 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by greenfreak
Posted by nrthshgrl
That being said, if your webpage is on the internet, I don't think there can be any expectation of privacy unless it's password protected.
This saddens me, that a lot of people feel that way. I can't share my hobby with others without them believing it's their right to do with whatever they wish.
It's like you can't have a business website either, especially photography, for the same reason.
It surprises me that you feel that way, considering you are a professional photographer. You don't have a website for your business, I guess?
She's not a professional.
She's just really really good at it.
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| Posted 9/19/07 10:22 AM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10312 total posts
Name:
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Re: Citing your sources
When it comes to hotlinking photos/images (in my case, I tend to use photos of products), I don't cite because I consider the image itself a source. I know when I'm curious as to where someone found an image, I check the properties to see what website it came from. There are occasions where you can't tell where the photo came from and it's necessary to ask the poster where the product is from.
I don't think I've ever copy & pasted someone's words/writing and claimed it as my own.  Normally I'll place it in quotes and/or italics and state where it came from (sometimes I'll post a direct link to the material as well.)
One of the fashion messageboards I belong to requires that you state your source for all photos. The mods are real serious about that, understandably so b/c of the legal ramifications. (There are a lot of folks from the fashion industry on the board.)
Message edited 9/19/2007 10:45:47 AM.
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| Posted 9/19/07 10:44 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by greenfreak
Posted by nrthshgrl
That being said, if your webpage is on the internet, I don't think there can be any expectation of privacy unless it's password protected.
This saddens me, that a lot of people feel that way. I can't share my hobby with others without them believing it's their right to do with whatever they wish.
It's like you can't have a business website either, especially photography, for the same reason.
It surprises me that you feel that way, considering you are a professional photographer. You don't have a website for your business, I guess?
Not a professional photographer at all.
I said an expectation of privacy meaning the hotlinking or providing the link to content. I think theft of bandwith is far reaching. I'd have to research more on intellectual property or at least hear some opinions from my company's attorneys. I didn't say someone should be able to take a photo or information and use it for their business purposes.
If I was running a graphic design business & took your photos to make birthday invites to sell, that would be illegal.
I just downloaded (free download) a photo of the supernova from the Hubble to use for an invite for my son's birthday. Legally.
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| Posted 9/19/07 11:35 AM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by nrthshgrl
Not a professional photographer at all.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I know we've talked about it before and how serious/good you are with it, I thought you had turned it into a profession. 
I said an expectation of privacy meaning the hotlinking or providing the link to content. I think theft of bandwith is far reaching. I'd have to research more on intellectual property or at least hear some opinions from my company's attorneys. I didn't say someone should be able to take a photo or information and use it for their business purposes.
I misinterpreted, my bad.
If I was running a graphic design business & took your photos to make birthday invites to sell, that would be illegal.
Agreed. I know a business that got all their graphics and photos on their marketing materials by doing google image searches, right clicking on the images, and saving them.
My problem really is with the idea that it's free for the taking, because it's on the internet. I'm not saying that that is your opinion, but I have been told that by people on this subject before.
If I give you specific permission to download my pictures (which in limited cases, I do), then great. I do have the copyright symbol on those with the website address though. If it wasn't there, that doesn't mean it's fair game, but it serves a purpose for me.
This is why so many people put watermarks right in the middle of their photos, to prevent others from using them for their own reasons. It's sad, really, to have to go to those lengths to protect your property.
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| Posted 9/19/07 12:00 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by greenfreak
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LOL...I just remembered I actually credited the Hubble Space Telescope on the actual invitation.
(see album)
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| Posted 9/19/07 12:06 PM |
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baghag
:P
Member since 5/05 10278 total posts
Name:
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Re: Citing your sources
I was just thinking about this issue.
One of my favorite blogs outed a newspaper columnist for copying and pasting directly from Wikipedia, and stealing photos. He notified the newspaper- who never acknowledged it.
A poster on a forum I visit had his photos stolen by a travel agency, even though his logo is plastered all over them. He asked them to remove his photos repeatedly, but it wasn't done until he tracked down the website host and asked them to take it down.
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| Posted 9/19/07 12:18 PM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Now that's anal.
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| Posted 9/19/07 12:59 PM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by baghag
I was just thinking about this issue.
One of my favorite blogs outed a newspaper columnist for copying and pasting directly from Wikipedia, and stealing photos. He notified the newspaper- who never acknowledged it.
A poster on a forum I visit had his photos stolen by a travel agency, even though his logo is plastered all over them. He asked them to remove his photos repeatedly, but it wasn't done until he tracked down the website host and asked them to take it down.
It's amazing, isn't it? I guess unless you get a lawyer and shell out your own money, there's no stopping them.
Morals account for nothing, apparently. 
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:05 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Citing your sources
One crucial element of all copyright/intellectual property dicscussion which has been omitted from this discussion is the "fair use doctrine".
All intellectual property claims have exceptions for fair use built into them. Meaning, there are certain uses that are automatically exempt from all copyright infringement. Examples of those would be personal use, educational purposes, and most uses that are not of a commercial purpose or where there is no intent to actually generate money from such use.
Of course, it is always ethical and proper to properly cite any source. However, all ethics aside, there are many circumsstances - everyday vernacular speech as well as this site - for which it would be impractical to do so, and in most of these situations no such requirement would exist.
Of course there are always even exceptions to the exceptions 
Message edited 9/19/2007 1:09:33 PM.
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:09 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
This is an interesting topic because I took copyright law in school and at the time the internet was not as big as it is now. I wonder if it is considered public domain unless otherwise stated?
Uh NO - absolutely NOT.
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:18 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by stickydust
One crucial element of all copyright/intellectual property dicscussion which has been omitted from this discussion is the "fair use doctrine".
All intellectual property claims have exceptions for fair use built into them. Meaning, there are certain uses that are automatically exempt from all copyright infringement. Examples of those would be personal use, educational purposes, and most uses that are not of a commercial purpose or where there is no intent to actually generate money from such use.
Of course, it is always ethical and proper to properly cite any source. However, all ethics aside, there are many circumsstances - everyday vernacular speech as well as this site - for which it would be impractical to do so, and in most of these situations no such requirement would exist.
Of course there are always even exceptions to the exceptions
As an IP attorney, I have to say this is a very general overview of the fair use doctrine and the fair use doctrine is NOT applicable to the circumstances to which the OP was referring.
Posting something on an internet BB is not pesonal use, educational (non-profit educational) use, etc. At the same time, I have never heard that the fair use doctrine covers situations where the alleged infringer does not intend to make a profit. As far as I see it, if the copyright holder can prove damages, it doesn't matter if the alleged infringer intended to make money off of it. I could not post an entire book on the internet (even on a web site that is ad-free) and expect it to be a fair use.
The fair use doctrine generally exists to permit exceptions in certain education-related areas, personal use (meaning I can copy a cd *I* own to a tape for *me only* to play in my car), and to protect permissible parody / satire.
I don't see it's applicability to these sorts of circumstances, though I'd be open to hearing discussion on both sides. The only applicability I do see is that specific damages would be difficult to prove. However, that doesn't mean necessarily impossible.
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:23 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Citing your sources
Posted by stickydust
Of course, it is always ethical and proper to properly cite any source. However, all ethics aside, there are many circumsstances - everyday vernacular speech as well as this site - for which it would be impractical to do so, and in most of these situations no such requirement would exist.
I disagree that blatantly copying someone's material and posting it on this site without giving credit to the source is an exception to copyright laws.
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:24 PM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Citing your sources
I should add that I don't necessarily see people posting pictures and blurbs as a giant threat to the copyright owner generally... However, I don't think that posting something on an internet BB falls into any of the exceptions of which I am aware in copyright law.
Always open to learning new things (and I agree someone here getting sued for it is far-fetched) -- but I don't see how it applies.
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| Posted 9/19/07 1:25 PM |
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