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Verizon Strike

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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent

Member since 3/12

809 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Daisy32

Posted by Paramount

Can someone say, in fair terms what the strike is about?

Workers want X raise, X benefits (etc)

Management wont budge, wont give etc.

I'm looking for a fair understanding.




In a nutshell, union employees want to keep what we have.

Company wants to:
-ship our jobs to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Thailand
-freeze pensions and possibly eliminate pensions
-move associates permanently at any given time 65 miles from current work location.
-move associates at any given time out of state (away from their families) for up to 3 months at a time.
-increase what we pay for healthcare
Plus many many more things but these are some top concerns.



First, I am sorry that you are going through this and I do not wish anyone added stress or anxiety. I know my opinion will be an unpopular opinion on these boards as they are very pro-union but nonetheless it is my opinion based on my experiences. I feel that the demands of the Union are not reasonable and frankly the demands are inconsistent with most people's current work realities.

- re shipping jobs: I feel it is a company's prerogative to choose where it will base any of its operations. The public at large keeps wanting cheaper services and that is the way to get them. If the public has a problem with outsourcing then the way to create change would be by eschewing the low cost provider in favor of a higher cost provider who employs domestically. As long as the public keeps demanding cheaper services it is not going to happen because ultimately these higher cost providers will go under and nobody will have a job.

- pensions are a relic. I don't know anyone with one and I have seen firsthand the difficulties it presents for companies and have worked for companies bankrupted by pensions.

-re moving 65 miles or farther. Everyone has a choice and there shouldn't be a requirement on companies to keep jobs where they are. If my DH's company tells him tomorrow that he has to move to Seattle for his job we would have to make a choice (1) move or (2) find a new job. That's it. It would absolutely suck but I can't require a company to keep my job where it is. My DH travels all the freakin time - he can say no and find a new job or suck it up. His job changed since he's been there and it is what it is.

- healthcare. I think everyone should have a right to affordable healthcare.

Re CEO salaries- the CEO's $15 million stock would not make a dent in funding these demands. As an aside, I'm curious to see what the value of his stock was when it was actually granted.

Posted 4/21/16 12:21 PM
 
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Mags1227
Just a mommy ...

Member since 10/10

2665 total posts

Name:
M

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Jugglemom

Posted by Daisy32

Posted by Paramount

Can someone say, in fair terms what the strike is about?

Workers want X raise, X benefits (etc)

Management wont budge, wont give etc.

I'm looking for a fair understanding.




In a nutshell, union employees want to keep what we have.

Company wants to:
-ship our jobs to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Thailand
-freeze pensions and possibly eliminate pensions
-move associates permanently at any given time 65 miles from current work location.
-move associates at any given time out of state (away from their families) for up to 3 months at a time.
-increase what we pay for healthcare
Plus many many more things but these are some top concerns.



First, I am sorry that you are going through this and I do not wish anyone added stress or anxiety. I know my opinion will be an unpopular opinion on these boards as they are very pro-union but nonetheless it is my opinion based on my experiences. I feel that the demands of the Union are not reasonable and frankly the demands are inconsistent with most people's current work realities.

- re shipping jobs: I feel it is a company's prerogative to choose where it will base any of its operations. The public at large keeps wanting cheaper services and that is the way to get them. If the public has a problem with outsourcing then the way to create change would be by eschewing the low cost provider in favor of a higher cost provider who employs domestically. As long as the public keeps demanding cheaper services it is not going to happen because ultimately these higher cost providers will go under and nobody will have a job.

- pensions are a relic. I don't know anyone with one and I have seen firsthand the difficulties it presents for companies and have worked for companies bankrupted by pensions.

-re moving 65 miles or farther. Everyone has a choice and there shouldn't be a requirement on companies to keep jobs where they are. If my DH's company tells him tomorrow that he has to move to Seattle for his job we would have to make a choice (1) move or (2) find a new job. That's it. It would absolutely suck but I can't require a company to keep my job where it is. My DH travels all the freakin time - he can say no and find a new job or suck it up. His job changed since he's been there and it is what it is.

- healthcare. I think everyone should have a right to affordable healthcare.

Re CEO salaries- the CEO's $15 million stock would not make a dent in funding these demands. As an aside, I'm curious to see what the value of his stock was when it was actually granted.



i was afraid to even type this, but i agree with you.

most companies do not offer pensions anymore. no one can afford them.

companies move all the time to places which offer cheaper labor, cheaper rent costs, cheaper taxes in a way to keep the company going without going bankrupt.

do CEOs make huge amounts of money? yes. Is it too much? - for me, yes. I could never spend that kind of money. BUT i also see first-hand what running even a small company entails. I can't imagine what happens at a billion-dollar level.

i feel horrible for all the families affected by this. i hope it gets resolved quickly, but i think both sides need to be willing to give up some things. (which does not seem to be the case)

Posted 4/21/16 1:46 PM
 

SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult

Member since 12/13

1764 total posts

Name:
B

Re: Verizon Strike

Sadly, I agree with the last 2 posters. It's almost like job security no longer exists. Huge companies are laying off thousands of employees monthly. Pensions are practically a thing of the past. I don't know anyone outside of civil service that actually has one. The civil service jobs lose benefits every time a new contract goes through too. I feel terrible for the families dealing with this strike but times have changed and it seems like they should reassess their demands.

Posted 4/21/16 2:25 PM
 

Paramount
Sweet!

Member since 7/12

4287 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by SecretlyTTC14

Sadly, I agree with the last 2 posters. It's almost like job security no longer exists. Huge companies are laying off thousands of employees monthly. Pensions are practically a thing of the past. I don't know anyone outside of civil service that actually has one. The civil service jobs lose benefits every time a new contract goes through too. I feel terrible for the families dealing with this strike but times have changed and it seems like they should reassess their demands.



Although I am NOT sympathetic to the people striking......

...my job did not give me a raise in 4 years. I went and got a new job. They raised my healthcare costs and I had to pay.

Like I said I am NOT unsympathetic to those striking, and I *do* understand its not *that easy* to just go get another job.

Posted 4/21/16 2:43 PM
 

Daisy32
Mommy

Member since 2/08

8081 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by LSP2005

For deployments, imagine your area was the one with the natural disaster. You would want the company to deploy people away from their normal home base to help your town get back on its feet. Does it stink for the worker who has to live in a small town for three months, yes, but realistically,what is the alternative when disaster strikes?



That's a completely different ballgame.That is not the type of deployment we are fighting against.

Posted 4/21/16 2:50 PM
 

Daisy32
Mommy

Member since 2/08

8081 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Let me also thank so many for you for "the kick us while we're down" comments. Shame on you. And my comment has nothing to do with some "not agreeing" with me. Some of your statements are despicable. I dont need you to be "sympathetic". But the fact of the matter is a I have FAMILY that depends on me. We are in a bad spot. SHAME ON YOU!!

Message edited 4/21/2016 2:57:33 PM.

Posted 4/21/16 2:54 PM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26784 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Verizon Strike

But if everyone always says "Well, that's the way it is...", and every year, every company keeps chipping away at all of our benefits, when will it end? When will the employees say "Enough is enough". Do we have to wait until companies take away 401(k) plans, don't pay anything for medical, take away vacations and holidays? Corporations would be thrilled if they could do all of those things, and are trying to do it all the time.

There are many studies that show that if corporations treat and pay their employees well, the company does better overall. Better retention rate, better productivity, etc.

Posted 4/21/16 2:59 PM
 

Kitten1929
LIF Adult

Member since 1/13

6040 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by GoldenRod

But if everyone always says "Well, that's the way it is...", and every year, every company keeps chipping away at all of our benefits, when will it end? When will the employees say "Enough is enough". Do we have to wait until companies take away 401(k) plans, don't pay anything for medical, take away vacations and holidays? Corporations would be thrilled if they could do all of those things, and are trying to do it all the time.

There are many studies that show that if corporations treat and pay their employees well, the company does better overall. Better retention rate, better productivity, etc.



I completely agree - the real problem is that company's that have the means to provide decent wages and benefits choose not so that they can claim enormous tax subsidies from the government and store their money offshore.

Posted 4/21/16 3:06 PM
 

JennP
LIF Adult

Member since 10/06

3966 total posts

Name:
Jenn

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by GoldenRod

But if everyone always says "Well, that's the way it is...", and every year, every company keeps chipping away at all of our benefits, when will it end? When will the employees say "Enough is enough". Do we have to wait until companies take away 401(k) plans, don't pay anything for medical, take away vacations and holidays? Corporations would be thrilled if they could do all of those things, and are trying to do it all the time.

There are many studies that show that if corporations treat and pay their employees well, the company does better overall. Better retention rate, better productivity, etc.



ITA

Instead of throwing up our collective hands and saying "oh well", people should fight for more!

Posted 4/21/16 3:22 PM
 

JennP
LIF Adult

Member since 10/06

3966 total posts

Name:
Jenn

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Daisy32

Let me also thank so many for you for "the kick us while we're down" comments. Shame on you. And my comment has nothing to do with some "not agreeing" with me. Some of your statements are despicable. I dont need you to be "sympathetic". But the fact of the matter is a I have FAMILY that depends on me. We are in a bad spot. SHAME ON YOU!!



Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 4/21/16 3:23 PM
 

Pumpkin1
LIF Adult

Member since 12/05

3715 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by SecretlyTTC14

Sadly, I agree with the last 2 posters. It's almost like job security no longer exists. Huge companies are laying off thousands of employees monthly. Pensions are practically a thing of the past. I don't know anyone outside of civil service that actually has one. The civil service jobs lose benefits every time a new contract goes through too. I feel terrible for the families dealing with this strike but times have changed and it seems like they should reassess their demands.



Once upon a time, employers took care of their employees but that is not the case anymore. This is why so many are pushing for an increased government programs for all because basic necessities (medical, education, retirement) are too costly for most people to obtain when employers have failed to increase wages.

Employers consider employees to "overhead" and, thus, drains on their profits and/or replaceable.

Unions are one of the only ways to balance the power but, unfortunately, unions are not nearly as strong as they once were. Thus, the onus will fall on the government to assume the burden of health insurance and retirement benefits because employers have just stopped providing it.

Message edited 4/21/2016 3:41:43 PM.

Posted 4/21/16 3:39 PM
 

StaceyWill
It's a girl!!!

Member since 6/10

21466 total posts

Name:
Stacey

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by GoldenRod

But if everyone always says "Well, that's the way it is...", and every year, every company keeps chipping away at all of our benefits, when will it end? When will the employees say "Enough is enough". Do we have to wait until companies take away 401(k) plans, don't pay anything for medical, take away vacations and holidays? Corporations would be thrilled if they could do all of those things, and are trying to do it all the time.

There are many studies that show that if corporations treat and pay their employees well, the company does better overall. Better retention rate, better productivity, etc.



Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 4/21/16 3:43 PM
 

SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult

Member since 12/13

1764 total posts

Name:
B

Re: Verizon Strike

I didn't want to high-jack the entire post with a related topic so my last post came off as insensitive. I definitely don't agree with what Verizon is doing, it's just hard for the workers to get what they want & need when the old way just isn't the standard anymore. That doesn't make it right but those are the facts. I don't want to kick anyone while they are down as I know it's not easy to be going through this Chat Icon

What I wanted to say in my previous post is that the middle class in this country is in real trouble. It's not just LI. It's every state. The one income family doesn't exist anymore (unless your extremely lucky) and I know some people say... "well we planned and sacrificed for years for one parent to stay at home now so it was hard work, not luck" but guess what... that is luck. Everyday people bust their ass. Day-in and day-out... thinking they have a stable income and can buy an average house... just to get laid off, or their hours or benefits are cut. Average people are losing everything and it's happening every day.

Companies that used to be stable jobs, get rid of higher paid employees for cheaper ones every single day. Capitalism is at it's worst and corporate greed is out of control. But one company having 40k employees go on strike is not going to change this. The ones losing here are the employees and their families. Verizon doesn't care, they are out there buying new media companies while their workers are on strike.

CEO's do not have more stress and therefore deserve billions a year. They have tiers of people under them that deal with most of the bull shit for them. If stress is a factor in pay ... then where the hell are my billions? or everyone elses for that matter? We all deal with job related stress and my guess is that a lot of us here are not compensated nearly enough.

Corporate greed effects us all in every single aspect of our life. Even the food we eat and the water we drink puts our health at risk due to corporate greed. Enough is enough. I don't know the solution but I think it begins with lawmakers not taking money from corporations.

I really do hope the Verizon workers get what they want and deserve, I just don't see it happening. It makes me angry and sad. Chat Icon

Posted 4/21/16 4:01 PM
 

Daisy32
Mommy

Member since 2/08

8081 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by SecretlyTTC14

I really do hope the Verizon workers get what they want and deserve, I just don't see it happening. It makes me angry and sad. Chat Icon



The only thing we want is to keep what we have. We gave up plenty with our last contract.

Posted 4/21/16 4:40 PM
 

MM2004
...

Member since 5/05

1854 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Message edited 4/23/2016 11:21:50 AM.

Posted 4/21/16 4:47 PM
 

mosh913
baby boy coming spring '11

Member since 5/05

3133 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Jugglemom

Posted by Daisy32

Posted by Paramount

Can someone say, in fair terms what the strike is about?

Workers want X raise, X benefits (etc)

Management wont budge, wont give etc.

I'm looking for a fair understanding.




In a nutshell, union employees want to keep what we have.

Company wants to:
-ship our jobs to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Thailand
-freeze pensions and possibly eliminate pensions
-move associates permanently at any given time 65 miles from current work location.
-move associates at any given time out of state (away from their families) for up to 3 months at a time.
-increase what we pay for healthcare
Plus many many more things but these are some top concerns.



First, I am sorry that you are going through this and I do not wish anyone added stress or anxiety. I know my opinion will be an unpopular opinion on these boards as they are very pro-union but nonetheless it is my opinion based on my experiences. I feel that the demands of the Union are not reasonable and frankly the demands are inconsistent with most people's current work realities.

- re shipping jobs: I feel it is a company's prerogative to choose where it will base any of its operations. The public at large keeps wanting cheaper services and that is the way to get them. If the public has a problem with outsourcing then the way to create change would be by eschewing the low cost provider in favor of a higher cost provider who employs domestically. As long as the public keeps demanding cheaper services it is not going to happen because ultimately these higher cost providers will go under and nobody will have a job.

- pensions are a relic. I don't know anyone with one and I have seen firsthand the difficulties it presents for companies and have worked for companies bankrupted by pensions.

-re moving 65 miles or farther. Everyone has a choice and there shouldn't be a requirement on companies to keep jobs where they are. If my DH's company tells him tomorrow that he has to move to Seattle for his job we would have to make a choice (1) move or (2) find a new job. That's it. It would absolutely suck but I can't require a company to keep my job where it is. My DH travels all the freakin time - he can say no and find a new job or suck it up. His job changed since he's been there and it is what it is.

- healthcare. I think everyone should have a right to affordable healthcare.

Re CEO salaries- the CEO's $15 million stock would not make a dent in funding these demands. As an aside, I'm curious to see what the value of his stock was when it was actually granted.




So just because other jobs don't have things like pensions
and they can be transferred, the union should just concede? Why wouldn't you FIGHT for these things? And like a previous poster stated, they're not fighting to get anything more, just to keep what they have. This is a quality of life issue. Whether you support unions or not, this is a middle class, quality of life fight. To be so subjective and just spew out your opinion on each issue stated is obnoxious and while I read it, I really just thought, who the eff cares what you think?!? My husband isn't getting paid, I'm pregnant with my 3rd baby and you know what?? If this is the longest strike in history, I support it. I support their fight for middle class and against corporate greed. Wake up, people!!!

Posted 4/21/16 5:17 PM
 

mosh913
baby boy coming spring '11

Member since 5/05

3133 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Paramount

Posted by SecretlyTTC14

Sadly, I agree with the last 2 posters. It's almost like job security no longer exists. Huge companies are laying off thousands of employees monthly. Pensions are practically a thing of the past. I don't know anyone outside of civil service that actually has one. The civil service jobs lose benefits every time a new contract goes through too. I feel terrible for the families dealing with this strike but times have changed and it seems like they should reassess their demands.



Although I am NOT sympathetic to the people striking......

...my job did not give me a raise in 4 years. I went and got a new job. They raised my healthcare costs and I had to pay.

Like I said I am NOT unsympathetic to those striking, and I *do* understand its not *that easy* to just go get another job.





Except these aren't really the issues at hand...

Posted 4/21/16 5:23 PM
 

Millie3
LIF Adult

Member since 7/13

1280 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Mags1227

Posted by Jugglemom

Posted by Daisy32

Posted by Paramount

Can someone say, in fair terms what the strike is about?

Workers want X raise, X benefits (etc)

Management wont budge, wont give etc.

I'm looking for a fair understanding.




In a nutshell, union employees want to keep what we have.

Company wants to:
-ship our jobs to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Thailand
-freeze pensions and possibly eliminate pensions
-move associates permanently at any given time 65 miles from current work location.
-move associates at any given time out of state (away from their families) for up to 3 months at a time.
-increase what we pay for healthcare
Plus many many more things but these are some top concerns.



First, I am sorry that you are going through this and I do not wish anyone added stress or anxiety. I know my opinion will be an unpopular opinion on these boards as they are very pro-union but nonetheless it is my opinion based on my experiences. I feel that the demands of the Union are not reasonable and frankly the demands are inconsistent with most people's current work realities.

- re shipping jobs: I feel it is a company's prerogative to choose where it will base any of its operations. The public at large keeps wanting cheaper services and that is the way to get them. If the public has a problem with outsourcing then the way to create change would be by eschewing the low cost provider in favor of a higher cost provider who employs domestically. As long as the public keeps demanding cheaper services it is not going to happen because ultimately these higher cost providers will go under and nobody will have a job.

- pensions are a relic. I don't know anyone with one and I have seen firsthand the difficulties it presents for companies and have worked for companies bankrupted by pensions.

-re moving 65 miles or farther. Everyone has a choice and there shouldn't be a requirement on companies to keep jobs where they are. If my DH's company tells him tomorrow that he has to move to Seattle for his job we would have to make a choice (1) move or (2) find a new job. That's it. It would absolutely suck but I can't require a company to keep my job where it is. My DH travels all the freakin time - he can say no and find a new job or suck it up. His job changed since he's been there and it is what it is.

- healthcare. I think everyone should have a right to affordable healthcare.

Re CEO salaries- the CEO's $15 million stock would not make a dent in funding these demands. As an aside, I'm curious to see what the value of his stock was when it was actually granted.



i was afraid to even type this, but i agree with you.

most companies do not offer pensions anymore. no one can afford them.

companies move all the time to places which offer cheaper labor, cheaper rent costs, cheaper taxes in a way to keep the company going without going bankrupt.

do CEOs make huge amounts of money? yes. Is it too much? - for me, yes. I could never spend that kind of money. BUT i also see first-hand what running even a small company entails. I can't imagine what happens at a billion-dollar level.

i feel horrible for all the families affected by this. i hope it gets resolved quickly, but i think both sides need to be willing to give up some things. (which does not seem to be the case)



100% agree.

another read

Posted 4/21/16 5:26 PM
 

mosh913
baby boy coming spring '11

Member since 5/05

3133 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by StaceyWill

Posted by GoldenRod

But if everyone always says "Well, that's the way it is...", and every year, every company keeps chipping away at all of our benefits, when will it end? When will the employees say "Enough is enough". Do we have to wait until companies take away 401(k) plans, don't pay anything for medical, take away vacations and holidays? Corporations would be thrilled if they could do all of those things, and are trying to do it all the time.

There are many studies that show that if corporations treat and pay their employees well, the company does better overall. Better retention rate, better productivity, etc.



Chat Icon Chat Icon




Yes!! Thank you!Chat Icon

Posted 4/21/16 5:27 PM
 

Millie3
LIF Adult

Member since 7/13

1280 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Daisy32

Let me also thank so many for you for "the kick us while we're down" comments. Shame on you. And my comment has nothing to do with some "not agreeing" with me. Some of your statements are despicable. I dont need you to be "sympathetic". But the fact of the matter is a I have FAMILY that depends on me. We are in a bad spot. SHAME ON YOU!!



This is not specific to you, but the collective you know this happens every three years. Why is this not planned for? I lived through almost a year long strike as a kid, money was set aside for this. Are most of these single income families?

Message edited 4/21/2016 5:33:29 PM.

Posted 4/21/16 5:32 PM
 

MrsProfessor
hi

Member since 5/05

14279 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

It is really sad what is happening to the workers, and to the middle class in general. For whatever reason we're happy to tolerate shit treatment from our employers.

There was a time when wanting a pension, fair treatment from management, decent benefits, a good salary, was not too much to ask. And now, forget it. Your CEO needs an $8,000 gilded gold toilet seat, so screw you.

The middle class in this country is toast.

Posted 4/21/16 5:36 PM
 

mosh913
baby boy coming spring '11

Member since 5/05

3133 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Millie3

Posted by Daisy32

Let me also thank so many for you for "the kick us while we're down" comments. Shame on you. And my comment has nothing to do with some "not agreeing" with me. Some of your statements are despicable. I dont need you to be "sympathetic". But the fact of the matter is a I have FAMILY that depends on me. We are in a bad spot. SHAME ON YOU!!



This is not specific to you, but the collective you know this happens every three years. Why is this not planned for? I lived through almost a year long strike as a kid, money was set aside for this. Are most of these single income families?



It does not happen every 3 years. Last one was 2011 and before that I think the late 90s? (Been with DH since 2001 and there's only been the strike in 2011 since I've been with him). That's like asking most Americans do they have the recommended 6-8 months in savings. Most don't. My husband does save for it but that account only has 5 weeks of pay.

Posted 4/21/16 5:36 PM
 

LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!

Member since 5/05

19402 total posts

Name:
L

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by MM2004

Posted by LSP2005

For deployments, imagine your area was the one with the natural disaster. You would want the company to deploy people away from their normal home base to help your town get back on its feet. Does it stink for the worker who has to live in a small town for three months, yes, but realistically,what is the alternative when disaster strikes?



I don't think it is just in disaster situations.

my understanding is that it is for disasters, and to roll out fios.

Posted 4/21/16 5:36 PM
 

mosh913
baby boy coming spring '11

Member since 5/05

3133 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by LSP2005

Posted by MM2004

Posted by LSP2005

For deployments, imagine your area was the one with the natural disaster. You would want the company to deploy people away from their normal home base to help your town get back on its feet. Does it stink for the worker who has to live in a small town for three months, yes, but realistically,what is the alternative when disaster strikes?



I don't think it is just in disaster situations.

my understanding is that it is for disasters, and to roll out fios.




Yeah, just a slight difference!!

Posted 4/21/16 5:37 PM
 

MrsProfessor
hi

Member since 5/05

14279 total posts

Name:

Re: Verizon Strike

Posted by Millie3

Posted by Daisy32

Let me also thank so many for you for "the kick us while we're down" comments. Shame on you. And my comment has nothing to do with some "not agreeing" with me. Some of your statements are despicable. I dont need you to be "sympathetic". But the fact of the matter is a I have FAMILY that depends on me. We are in a bad spot. SHAME ON YOU!!



This is not specific to you, but the collective you know this happens every three years. Why is this not planned for? I lived through almost a year long strike as a kid, money was set aside for this. Are most of these single income families?



How do people on LI save for something like this- with taxes, mortgages, day care, etc? My dad was on strike when I was a kid too- but back then it was possible to live on one income AND be able to save. This is a different time and a different place. Those families that can build up a good savings are the unicorns- I have a feeling most families, especially those with young kids and two incomes, can't do that as well.

Posted 4/21/16 5:38 PM
 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7
 

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