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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Leb
I am confused why this is coming to light now and people are protesting? Obama deported millions of immigrants. Why more than George W Bush, prior to him. These ICE raids are against criminals! CRIMINALS!
Also PS in the 1930s my great grandfather "commuted" back and forth from Sicily and America where he worked as a long shore man. The first time he saw my grandma was when she was TWO years old. He tried and tried to get his family here and it is my understanding he could have done it illegally but he refused. It took him two years of trying and finally they boarded a ship via Ellis Island. They came here as legal immigrants.
The USA takes in over a million legal immigrants a year. We CANNOT stake in every single person that wants to come to our country.
It's not that black and white.
I'm OK with violent criminals being deported, but they way it is being done now is not right. They are targeting specific groups and if they are undocumented, yes, illegal is offensive, but they have not committed a violent crime, then it's a gray area, especially if they have children here.
A lot of times those children are US citizens and they will not be deported with their parents. It isn't easy to say just take them along. It's more complicated than that. As a result, there are thousands of children stuck in foster care and that number is expected to grow.
I'm not OK with immigration at the expense of tearing families apart.
ETA: violent crime
Message edited 2/13/2017 12:48:18 PM.
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Posted 2/13/17 11:23 AM  |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
But if they are illegal they have committed a crime. They have either come or stayed in this country illegallly. It is a crime.
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| Posted 2/13/17 12:17 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3986 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by klingklang77
A lot of times those children are US citizens and they will not be deported with their parents. It isn't easy to say just take them along. It's more complicated than that. As a result, there are thousands of children stuck in foster care and that number is expected to grow.
I'm not OK with immigration at the expense of tearing families apart.
Thank you posting this. I didn't think it was a big deal to just send illegal immigrants back to their home country. I didn't think about the cases where their children were born in the U.S.
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| Posted 2/13/17 12:39 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
But if they are illegal they have committed a crime. They have either come or stayed in this country illegallly. It is a crime.
I edited my post to say violent crime. You cannot develop a society where if someone commits any sort of crime, in your case coming here illegally, and deport them. All of this while leaving families behind. It simply won't work and will cause the same amount of problems, if not more.
It's not so black and white.
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| Posted 2/13/17 12:51 PM |
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Leb
LIF Adult
Member since 12/09 4166 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Leb
I am confused why this is coming to light now and people are protesting? Obama deported millions of immigrants. Why more than George W Bush, prior to him. These ICE raids are against criminals! CRIMINALS!
Also PS in the 1930s my great grandfather "commuted" back and forth from Sicily and America where he worked as a long shore man. The first time he saw my grandma was when she was TWO years old. He tried and tried to get his family here and it is my understanding he could have done it illegally but he refused. It took him two years of trying and finally they boarded a ship via Ellis Island. They came here as legal immigrants.
The USA takes in over a million legal immigrants a year. We CANNOT stake in every single person that wants to come to our country.
It's not that black and white.
I'm OK with violent criminals being deported, but they way it is being done now is not right. They are targeting specific groups and if they are undocumented, yes, illegal is offensive, but they have not committed a violent crime, then it's a gray area, especially if they have children here.
A lot of times those children are US citizens and they will not be deported with their parents. It isn't easy to say just take them along. It's more complicated than that. As a result, there are thousands of children stuck in foster care and that number is expected to grow.
I'm not OK with immigration at the expense of tearing families apart.
ETA: violent crime
Why is illegal offensive if it is true? Undocumented means illegal. Can I say I have an undocumented ounce of weed on my person? Whether you think it should be legalized or not, it is illegal to carry marijuana on your person no? It is a crime albeit a minor one.
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| Posted 2/13/17 1:38 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
I think it is black and white. These people came here illegally. They had children who are US citizens even though they knew they were here illegally. They get caught they should face the consequences.
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| Posted 2/13/17 2:40 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Leb
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Leb
I am confused why this is coming to light now and people are protesting? Obama deported millions of immigrants. Why more than George W Bush, prior to him. These ICE raids are against criminals! CRIMINALS!
Also PS in the 1930s my great grandfather "commuted" back and forth from Sicily and America where he worked as a long shore man. The first time he saw my grandma was when she was TWO years old. He tried and tried to get his family here and it is my understanding he could have done it illegally but he refused. It took him two years of trying and finally they boarded a ship via Ellis Island. They came here as legal immigrants.
The USA takes in over a million legal immigrants a year. We CANNOT stake in every single person that wants to come to our country.
It's not that black and white.
I'm OK with violent criminals being deported, but they way it is being done now is not right. They are targeting specific groups and if they are undocumented, yes, illegal is offensive, but they have not committed a violent crime, then it's a gray area, especially if they have children here.
A lot of times those children are US citizens and they will not be deported with their parents. It isn't easy to say just take them along. It's more complicated than that. As a result, there are thousands of children stuck in foster care and that number is expected to grow.
I'm not OK with immigration at the expense of tearing families apart.
ETA: violent crime
Why is illegal offensive if it is true? Undocumented means illegal. Can I say I have an undocumented ounce of weed on my person? Whether you think it should be legalized or not, it is illegal to carry marijuana on your person no? It is a crime albeit a minor one.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/01/30/170677880/in-immigration-debate-undocumented-vs-illegal-is-more-than-just-semantics
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| Posted 2/13/17 2:49 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
I think it is black and white. These people came here illegally. They had children who are US citizens even though they knew they were here illegally. They get caught they should face the consequences.
Non-violent and you should be taken away from your American children? Nice.
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| Posted 2/13/17 2:52 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
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| Posted 2/13/17 2:56 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
It must be nice to see things so black and white without taking into account each situation. Tell me how do you do it?
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| Posted 2/13/17 3:10 PM |
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StaceyLu
LIF Adolescent
Member since 2/17 572 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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ICE Raids
But suffer the children.
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| Posted 2/13/17 3:10 PM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by LIRascal
"They're stealing our jobs!"
Yes, Gary with the high school diploma. Mohammed the surgeon is stealing your job. 
This is referencing a very specific kind of immigrant who fills a demand for skills. These kinds of immigrants serve our economy, and (call it heartless) I think the U.S. has a right to act in its own economic self-interest. We have prospered by stealing skilled, innovative minds from other countries by luring them with civil liberties and standard-of-living. If we want to continue to be an economic super power, we need to keep doing this, instead of educating foreign students in our fine universities and then sending them home to compete with us. This kind of immigrant also has a work visa and is therefore not "illegal." I don't think anyone here is really talking about Mohammed the surgeon with the work visa.
HBO did a documentary about Ted Kennedy's attempt at commons sense, bipartisan immigration reform. It was the best plan I have ever heard, but it died in Congress. Why? special interests, including Latin advocacy groups who, despite the fact that the plan would have granted amnesty and provided a path to citizenship for everyone already here, felt that the quotas for skilled immigrants and refugees did not make enough room for unskilled Central Americans, which I think (frankly) is not in American economic self-interest and is therefore not our job.
http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-senators-bargain/synopsis.html
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| Posted 2/13/17 3:38 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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ICE Raids
I just think it isn't a black and white issue and it's very layered and complex and a lot of people just think it's a simple immigration fix.
I don't know the answer. I do know that immigrants fill jobs that most Americans would never take or be able to take. If every American was willing to take jobs washing dishes, cleaning bathrooms, driving taxis, working at 7-11, it would be hard for immigrants to steal your job. But a lot of Americans want "good" jobs with "good pay" and "good benefits" and aren't willing to take on menial or laborious jobs. So in a way our own lack of willingness to take those jobs has created the void in the workforce that immigrants have accepted. And when it comes to field labor, that's where you save your money buying groceries. If you want Americans to do those jobs at $18 hour plus benefits your food costs are going to increase. We should make the path to citizenship more feasible so we can legalize workers and keep families in our country. Violent offenders, they can be deported as far as I am concerned. But I think dismissing the very real, tangible and valuable services that immigrants provide to our economy on very basic levels is shortsighted.
Message edited 2/13/2017 4:10:38 PM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 4:06 PM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Considering the number of welfare recipients in our country there seems to be a lot of people who need jobs. Maybe welfare shouldn't be open ended and the government can help place people in some of the jobs. If the wage isn't high enough to support their families welfare could subsidize their earnings. Would lower welfare amounts and get people working. Nobody said you have to washave dishes forever. Maybe it is a stepping stone to a better job.
For the record my Grandmother is an immigrant from Italy who came in through Ellis Island and did many menial jobs till her English got better. She the was able to work her way to better jobs. She saved her money, paid her taxes and did everything by the book.
Not sure why people think doing it illegally should be rewarded with a free pass. What about all the people who have spent a lot of money and time doing it the right way and aren't Citizens yet? Do we take all of them in as well?
Message edited 2/13/2017 4:26:28 PM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 4:22 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Why are people on this thread sitting here proving their family came in through Ellis Island? What's the point? We all come from immigrants. Why is there this pissing contest on who did it correctly? It was different then- a lot different.
Message edited 2/13/2017 4:35:49 PM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 4:34 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Mill188
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
It must be nice to see things so black and white without taking into account each situation. Tell me how do you do it?
When you emigrated to Germany, you needed to follow the rules, right? If you didn't, what would happen? Should you be rewarded for not doing things the legal way? You don't get to come into this country illegally - knowing you were doing it illegally - and then cry foul.
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:22 PM |
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quasi3
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 1764 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by klingklang77
Why are people on this thread sitting here proving their family came in through Ellis Island? What's the point? We all come from immigrants. Why is there this pissing contest on who did it correctly? It was different then- a lot different.
I don't think it's a pissing contest. I think it has to do with coming to America ILEGALLY. Following the proper protocol and procedures. while I don't necessarily think the issue is black and white, when you knowing enter a country with the intention of defrauding- you are breakng the law.
It's like saying a person who commits a murder shouldn't get sent to prison because they have small children at home. Their families will be torn apart too. Where's the compassion there?
Message edited 2/13/2017 5:33:17 PM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:28 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Mill188
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
It must be nice to see things so black and white without taking into account each situation. Tell me how do you do it?
When you emigrated to Germany, you needed to follow the rules, right? If you didn't [sic], what would happen [sic]? Should you be rewarded for not doing things the legal way? You don't get to come into this country illegally - knowing you were doing it illegally - and then cry foul.
That's comparing apples to oranges. I went from one first world country to another first world country. I was able to follow the rules. We got married sooner than we wanted to for a visa. I'm sure that's a bit questionable with regards to immigration.
If my circumstances had been different (say DH needed to travel with me and he couldn't do it legally or vice versa), I would have done what would have been necessary to keep us together.
But that wasn't my situation, so it doesn't matter and it's irrelevant to this discussion.
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:33 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: ICE Raids
Interesting Read
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:34 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
What should happen to the American-born kids? Send them back to their parent's native country too? Put them through the foster system?
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:40 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Good read, thanks.
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:41 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
So it's ok if you're from a 3rd world country? If you are from say Japan you have a different set of rules?
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:41 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Mill188
So it's ok if you're from a 3rd world country? If you are from say Japan you have a different set of rules?
Is Japan a third world country? I don't understand your question 
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:44 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by MC09
Posted by Mill188
Yes. Sorry. Your broke the law coming here. You knew you were illegal when you had your American born child. You don't get points for that.
What should happen to the American-born kids? Send them back to their parent's native country too? Put them through the foster system?
Maybe the people who came in illegally should have thought about that before they broke the law?
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:44 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3072 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
You stated it was different when you emigrated because you were coming from a first world country. I simply asked is there should be a different set of rules for people breaking the immigration laws based upon whether or not they are coming in from a first or third world country.
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| Posted 2/13/17 5:46 PM |
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