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Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

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mrsrainbow
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Member since 1/17

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Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by Mill188

I just don't get why he's so obsessed with it - he won - he's sworn in, he's the president. Can he give it a break already?


Posted by MrsT809

In addition to the offensive term "illegals", most mathematicians would find extrapolation to be an offensive practice!



However, why is the term "illegals" offensive? I am honestly asking. If you are here illegally, you are "illegal" not "undocumented." You are breaking the law.

Maybe I'm looking at it through the eyes of a retired ICE officer's daughter, but I don't why we can't point out if someone is here illegally.

Not trying to be snarky - just trying to understand.



I think it's being seen as derogatory because while yes, some undocumented immigrants come here and commit crimes and want to live above the law, undoubtedly the higher percentage of undocumented immigrants are simply looking for a better life and trying to make the best of an unfortunate situation. The path to citizenship is NOT easy and many are trying their best. Lumping them in with an offensive term like "illegal immigrant" is demoralizing and stigmatizing especially when some may have not had a choice in the matter of coming to the US and are victims of circumstance. The right likes to paint undocumented peoples as villains and criminals and unsavory people who need to be kicked out of our country. Especially in a time when just being a different color gets you called an ugly name regardless of your legal standing. Just like we no longer use the word "colored" to describe people of color, some words are insensitive and should be put out of practice.

NPR link

Posted 1/24/17 5:21 PM
 

klingklang77
kraftwerk!

Member since 7/06

11486 total posts

Name:
Völlig losgelöst

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by mrsrainbow

Posted by Mill188

I just don't get why he's so obsessed with it - he won - he's sworn in, he's the president. Can he give it a break already?


Posted by MrsT809

In addition to the offensive term "illegals", most mathematicians would find extrapolation to be an offensive practice!



However, why is the term "illegals" offensive? I am honestly asking. If you are here illegally, you are "illegal" not "undocumented." You are breaking the law.

Maybe I'm looking at it through the eyes of a retired ICE officer's daughter, but I don't why we can't point out if someone is here illegally.

Not trying to be snarky - just trying to understand.



I think it's being seen as derogatory because while yes, some undocumented immigrants come here and commit crimes and want to live above the law, undoubtedly the higher percentage of undocumented immigrants are simply looking for a better life and trying to make the best of an unfortunate situation. The path to citizenship is NOT easy and many are trying their best. Lumping them in with an offensive term like "illegal immigrant" is demoralizing and stigmatizing especially when some may have not had a choice in the matter of coming to the US and are victims of circumstance. The right likes to paint undocumented peoples as villains and criminals and unsavory people who need to be kicked out of our country. Especially in a time when just being a different color gets you called an ugly name regardless of your legal standing. Just like we no longer use the word "colored" to describe people of color, some words are insensitive and should be put out of practice.

NPR link



I disagree with the use of illegals completely (I mean it's offensive).

However, I think the term is colored is not offensive, but rather archaic. At least that's what the NAACP has stated.

Message edited 1/24/2017 6:15:16 PM.

Posted 1/24/17 5:31 PM
 

frosty
LIF Toddler

Member since 5/05

462 total posts

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Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by Mill188

I just don't get why he's so obsessed with it - he won - he's sworn in, he's the president. Can he give it a break already?



Just imagine how he'd be if he had lost the EC.

Posted 1/24/17 6:08 PM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



How should we address a total of 31 cases of voter fraud over 1 billion votes, over 14 years?

It's something like .00000003%

For all intents and purposes, there is absolutely no voter fraud at any level.

Posted 1/24/17 6:33 PM
 

Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it

Member since 5/05

30683 total posts

Name:
D

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

[

Message edited 1/24/2017 7:03:41 PM.

Posted 1/24/17 7:02 PM
 

mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!

Member since 3/09

8585 total posts

Name:
Melissa

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...




Its been researched time and time again and they have only been able to find a handful of of voter fraud. I think Trump needs to just grow up. He won what else does he need? I really hope we don't spend tax dollars in an official investigation.

Posted 1/24/17 8:36 PM
 

stinger
LIF Adult

Member since 11/11

4971 total posts

Name:

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by mnmsoinlove

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...




Its been researched time and time again and they have only been able to find a handful of of voter fraud. I think Trump needs to just grow up. He won what else does he need? I really hope we don't spend tax dollars in an official investigation.



Spicer said Trump believes what he believes

IOW he is delusional and a conspiratist.

Posted 1/24/17 8:56 PM
 

Danamz
LIF Adult

Member since 6/06

1978 total posts

Name:

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by curley999

Do the Trump haters on here actually research anything or read facts or just attack based on any random statement written?

The reason Hillary won the popular vote is because of California. If you look at how the numbers broke down by CA counties her highest margins are also in counties with the highest number of illegals. Voter fraud exists in the US, that is fact. I do agree 3-5 million sounds excessive but their is fraud there, that is what Trump is trying to address.



Haha he's still not happy with the outcome of the election? I'm perfectly fine with a do-over

Posted 1/24/17 11:06 PM
 

Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it

Member since 5/05

30683 total posts

Name:
D

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!

Posted 1/25/17 7:01 AM
 

EricaAlt
LIF Adult

Member since 7/08

22665 total posts

Name:
Erica

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



How should we address a total of 31 cases of voter fraud over 1 billion votes, over 14 years?

It's something like .00000003%

For all intents and purposes, there is absolutely no voter fraud at any level.




He's so fixated on this. What about showing your taxes or talking about Russia? Nope... he only hears one thing. The man is a moron.
Love how he posted a photo of the inauguration in the white house showing the large crowds, but yet the date is Jan 21. Chat Icon
Don't know if I should laugh or cry with this man. Chat Icon

Posted 1/25/17 7:56 AM
 

klingklang77
kraftwerk!

Member since 7/06

11486 total posts

Name:
Völlig losgelöst

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.

Message edited 1/25/2017 8:15:15 AM.

Posted 1/25/17 8:05 AM
 

stinger
LIF Adult

Member since 11/11

4971 total posts

Name:

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.


Chat Icon

Why do i have a feeling that if fraud is happening its not happening at the voter level but at a system level (ie who is counting, running machines, etc).

Posted 1/25/17 8:24 AM
 

MrsT809
LIF Adult

Member since 9/09

12167 total posts

Name:

Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Silly question maybe, but can you 'unregister' to vote?

If you move, are you supposed to remove yourself somehow? When you register your new address is the system supposed to automatically remove your old address? Obviously before someone dies they should have the courtesy to remove themselves from voter registration first. But seriously, are there no systems in place for these scenarios that are being referred to as fraud?

Posted 1/25/17 8:27 AM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by stinger

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.


Chat Icon

Why do i have a feeling that if fraud is happening its not happening at the voter level but at a system level (ie who is counting, running machines, etc).



Gerrymandering is much more "voter fraud" than anything individual voters can do. Changing district voting lines to basically force election results in your favor is absolutely voter fraud. There are several cases in various Supreme Courts (state and federal) trying to overturn these redistrictings.
Basically all gerrymandering is done by politicians, so the people voted in office are the ones most guilty of voter fraud, not "the illegals"

Posted 1/25/17 8:32 AM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by MrsT809

Silly question maybe, but can you 'unregister' to vote?

If you move, are you supposed to remove yourself somehow? When you register your new address is the system supposed to automatically remove your old address? Obviously before someone dies they should have the courtesy to remove themselves from voter registration first. But seriously, are there no systems in place for these scenarios that are being referred to as fraud?



Being registered in the wrong district (either by death, moving, etc) isn't fraud, even if some people claim it that way. There's nothing inherently wrong with being on the registry, even if you're dead. It takes a lot of time and money to go through all of the registries to keep them 100% accurate.

As long as the dead people aren't voting (and zombies always want "brains!!!, so they're not going to vote for politicians... Chat Icon ) , and nobody is trying to vote as that person, there's no fraud, so it's not an issue.

Posted 1/25/17 8:34 AM
 

klingklang77
kraftwerk!

Member since 7/06

11486 total posts

Name:
Völlig losgelöst

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by MrsT809

Silly question maybe, but can you 'unregister' to vote?

If you move, are you supposed to remove yourself somehow? When you register your new address is the system supposed to automatically remove your old address? Obviously before someone dies they should have the courtesy to remove themselves from voter registration first. But seriously, are there no systems in place for these scenarios that are being referred to as fraud?



I don't know what happens if someone dies, but I can explain what I did.

When I moved overseas, I had to request an absentee ballot, which I have to do every 4 years, grrrr. My mom works the elections and primaries, etc. where I used to live and every year she checks to see if my name is on the list. It's either not there or there is a note that says absentee ballot. I assume it would be the same when others move. I can ask her next time when I talk to her (we've had a few neighbors die and move), so she'd know.

Posted 1/25/17 8:38 AM
 

Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it

Member since 5/05

30683 total posts

Name:
D

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....

Posted 1/25/17 10:20 AM
 

JME78
LIF Adult

Member since 11/09

3672 total posts

Name:

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



There is voter fraud, but it is such a small percentage.

Today an article came out that Steve Bannon, Trump's Chief Strategist is registered to vote in 2 states. So it goes both ways.

I don't know how anyone with a brain is comfortable with the insanity that the president is spewing. It is completely baseless and insane to say that 3-5 million people voted illegally.

Posted 1/25/17 10:25 AM
 

MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!

Member since 8/10

4194 total posts

Name:
M

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



You have to pay for it. That is a barrier for people living in poverty. That's why regulations surrounding ID for voting are skewed against people living in poverty, and the elderly and disabled who aren't as mobile and can't just 'go somewhere" as easily as say you and me.

Message edited 1/25/2017 10:25:41 AM.

Posted 1/25/17 10:25 AM
 

GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!

Member since 11/06

26792 total posts

Name:
Shawn

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



You have to pay for it. That is a barrier for people living in poverty. That's why regulations surrounding ID for voting are skewed against people living in poverty, and the elderly and disabled who aren't as mobile and can't just 'go somewhere" as easily as say you and me.



In NY:
The non-driver State ID costs $9 to $10 for a 4 to 5 year ID and $13 to $14 for an 8 to 9 year ID.

In CT:
Payment for fee of $22.50.

In AZ:
The cost for an original, duplicate, or replacement Arizona identification card is $12.

I'm not doing all 50 states. Just pointing out that you have to spend money to vote, which shouldn't be.

And again, there have been 31 cases of verifiable fraud in 14 years. This election, the two cases of fraud/attempted fraud that I read about were Trump voters. Either way, there is NO calculable voter fraud in the US.

Posted 1/25/17 10:32 AM
 

MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!

Member since 8/10

4194 total posts

Name:
M

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



You have to pay for it. That is a barrier for people living in poverty. That's why regulations surrounding ID for voting are skewed against people living in poverty, and the elderly and disabled who aren't as mobile and can't just 'go somewhere" as easily as say you and me.



In NY:
The non-driver State ID costs $9 to $10 for a 4 to 5 year ID and $13 to $14 for an 8 to 9 year ID.

In CT:
Payment for fee of $22.50.

In AZ:
The cost for an original, duplicate, or replacement Arizona identification card is $12.

I'm not doing all 50 states. Just pointing out that you have to spend money to vote, which shouldn't be.

And again, there have been 31 cases of verifiable fraud in 14 years. This election, the two cases of fraud/attempted fraud that I read about were Trump voters. Either way, there is NO calculable voter fraud in the US.



Exactly. It is actually illegal to require citizens to pay to vote. By forcing ID regulations that is exactly what we're doing. For NO reason that has any statistical validity.

Posted 1/25/17 10:39 AM
 

MrsT809
LIF Adult

Member since 9/09

12167 total posts

Name:

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



You have to pay for it. That is a barrier for people living in poverty. That's why regulations surrounding ID for voting are skewed against people living in poverty, and the elderly and disabled who aren't as mobile and can't just 'go somewhere" as easily as say you and me.



In NY:
The non-driver State ID costs $9 to $10 for a 4 to 5 year ID and $13 to $14 for an 8 to 9 year ID.

In CT:
Payment for fee of $22.50.

In AZ:
The cost for an original, duplicate, or replacement Arizona identification card is $12.

I'm not doing all 50 states. Just pointing out that you have to spend money to vote, which shouldn't be.

And again, there have been 31 cases of verifiable fraud in 14 years. This election, the two cases of fraud/attempted fraud that I read about were Trump voters. Either way, there is NO calculable voter fraud in the US.



Exactly. It is actually illegal to require citizens to pay to vote. By forcing ID regulations that is exactly what we're doing. For NO reason that has any statistical validity.



I have also seen reports of some places moving the dmvs further out of cities making it harder and more expensive for people to get to them.

Posted 1/25/17 11:09 AM
 

ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls

Member since 2/09

20494 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by GoldenRod

Posted by MandJZ

Posted by Diane

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by Diane

Posted by TheDivineMrsM

Voter fraud needs to be addressed. That said, these numbers seem excessive...



I agree...It should be MANDATORY that you show ID when voting. No ID...no vote!!!!!



Then the government needs to issue a free ID if that's the case and make it easy to get a photo ID. It's not easy for everyone to get an ID. Putting up another barrier to voting is not a good thing to do.

And as stated above voter fraud is like .00000000003% or something. So there is not really anything that needs to be addressed.




why is it NOT easy to get an ID?? Please tell me? If you don't have a license, you can go to motor vehicle and get a non-drivers ID. Just need to prove your residence.

There has been voting fraud with people who have died, using dead peoples names to vote, which is why there needs to be a requirement to show ID at the voting ballots. JMO....



You have to pay for it. That is a barrier for people living in poverty. That's why regulations surrounding ID for voting are skewed against people living in poverty, and the elderly and disabled who aren't as mobile and can't just 'go somewhere" as easily as say you and me.



In NY:
The non-driver State ID costs $9 to $10 for a 4 to 5 year ID and $13 to $14 for an 8 to 9 year ID.

In CT:
Payment for fee of $22.50.

In AZ:
The cost for an original, duplicate, or replacement Arizona identification card is $12.

I'm not doing all 50 states. Just pointing out that you have to spend money to vote, which shouldn't be.

And again, there have been 31 cases of verifiable fraud in 14 years. This election, the two cases of fraud/attempted fraud that I read about were Trump voters. Either way, there is NO calculable voter fraud in the US.



Exactly. It is actually illegal to require citizens to pay to vote. By forcing ID regulations that is exactly what we're doing. For NO reason that has any statistical validity.



Let's also not forget that while we have DMVs all over Long Island that we can get to relatively easily, many states do not.

Posted 1/25/17 11:17 AM
 
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