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debidonnamom
Kindness matters
Member since 12/10 1903 total posts
Name:
Mary (MOB)
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Help me understand, please. How does cutting out certain aspects of collective bargaining, cut expenses? For those who agree that collective bargaining should not be cut, what would be ways you feel, that state/local gov. budgets can be met, in view of the fact, that it's being stated that there is no money left. I don't have a clue!! I see both sides of this, and I have Family members who are on both sides. What's the solution? Mary
Message edited 3/10/2011 6:29:51 PM.
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Posted 3/10/11 6:27 PM  |
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OStewarts
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 1096 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by OStewarts
Posted by mommy2Alex
I think some of your facts are inaccurate. Federal employees have collective bargaining rights. They bargain over a number of issues, including work rules,discipline, scheduling, training, etc. They are not permitted to bargain over wages or benefits - they are established by OPM,and maybe Congress, to some extent.
You're right, in that in Wisconsin, public employees lost the ability to bargain over EVERYTHING, with the exception of wages but that is limited to the rate of inflation. (Let me add, that there are also a number of other Draconian items in the bill that are union-busting, plain and simple.)
Now,as far as union dues go, we simply disagree. In my view, who teaches or other public employees give their dues to is really their own business, since it's their own money!! It's not the state's money! The fact that public employees' unions give more money to democrats should not mean that they don't have a right to exist!! Public corporations give more money to Republicans, but they still exist despite the fact that they lobby.
I disagree with you. Public Unions are paid with taxpayer $$$$ where their union dues go is not decided by the union employees it is decided by the union bosses like Richard Trumpka and Andy Stern. When they use these dues to buy politicians and then those politicians are indebted to the unions, they give them sweet heart deals. To me that = corruption. The federal employees do not have collective bargaining rights with respect to issues that are going to bankrupt the country. I could give a crap if it is republican or democrat they are donating to. It still causes corruption. Public Corporations can use their profits however they like. But Public Unions are funded thru taxpayer $$$ and I for one and sick to death of taxes going up, up, up to pay for these sweetheart PUBLIC Union Deals! The only people in this country who should be receiving pensions and other perks for life are firefighters/police officers Military personnel. IMO - they risk their lives every day for not a very large salary and service our country with their lives. Just as in the private sector the public sector should have to fund their own retirement.
I have one girlfriend who works for the town of Riverhead. This is the last year (I think she has been there about 5 or 6 years) she has to pay for her medical benefits. After that, fully funded. She is currently 37 years old. If she lives to be 67 years old (which is very young today) and just say her benefits cost the Town 15K a year that is a total cost to the Town of $450K just for her medical benefits. Times this by the thousands of state workers and add in their pension costs and you can see how these deals are bankrupting our States.
I will point out that public companies make political contributions and get sweetheart deals worth millions of dollars ALL THE TIME! There are even allegations that there are no-bid awards for campaign contributors in the Wisconsin legislations that we are discussing.
I will also note thay any union member can object to paying that portion of their dues that go to political action and receive a reduction in their dues.
I do think that we can agree that lobbying by any group can lead to corruption. Union aren't any better or worse than any other entity that seeks to have their interests repesented in Washington and/or Albany, etc. It's the nature of the beast so to speak.
Finally, I really just don't believe that we're in the mess that we are in because of public sector employees. Yes, they are a fragment of public spending and somehow, we all have been moved off topic from the continued tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. I think that a return to the Clinton-era tax structure would do more to resolve our issues than going after the lunch ladies' pensions. At the very least, we should raise the tax rates before go after middle class Americans.
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| Posted 3/10/11 7:13 PM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mom2aidan
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by Erica
Posted by mommy2Alex
Just b/c it is a union of public employees does not mean they are using public money. The money comes out of our salaries (I pay ~1% of my salary to union dues) and any additional money teachers elect to donate to Vote Cope.
t.
Where does the Public Union Salary come from? The taxpayers because the last time I checked, school districts nor the government are entites which create wealth. They collect their revenues from the taxes they collect.
I don't understand your logic. Please explain.
Are you saying that because I'm paid with tax money that the money that comes out of MY CHECK towards the union is actually tax payer money?
I must be misunderstanding because by that logic, I don't really own my home or the clothes on my back, the taxpayers do....
The issue in WI is collective bargaining rights over salaries/benefits for the Public Employees. Those employees are paid with tax payer $$$. Of course you own your home. But when you are required to be in the union and pay the union dues to be a public employee in essence tax payer $$$ are being used by the union (thru dues to lobby) which leds to corruption because they spend lots of $$$ to get sweetheart deals for their employees which in turn costs the taxpayers more money. If YOU choose to take your salary and spend it on buying a home/cars/clothes or just saving it for yourself that is your choice. It is YOUR salary. But for the taxpayers to be footing the bills for all Public Employees Pensions/Benefits is a bit absurd (IMO) I think contributing 12% of your salary towards benefits/pensions is not asking much, which is what Walker in WI was asking. So here is my logic . Public Employee Salary is paid for by me the tax payer, once you receive it is your to spend as you choose, however, if you are REQUIRED to be in the Union and pay Dues which in turn are then used to Buy Politicians who then vote in these ridiculous Pensions/Benefit packages for Public Employees, the bill which for which will be sent to the taxpayer...to me leads to corruption and YES, I have a problem with that. Do I have a problem with Teachers/Fire Fighters/ Policeman making a 100K a year or more???? NO ABSOLUTELY NOT! Do I have a problem with the inability to fire a teacher who underperforms and is paid to sit in a room to do nothing because they can't be fired. YES! Do I have a problem with these public unions having pensions that have no real contributions from the employee? YES! Do I have problems with pension padding? Abosultely! I feel the days of Big Unions are over! They served their purpose back in the day. Do I believe if unions go away we will be back to child labor and people being paid pennies for their work, absolutely not.
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| Posted 3/10/11 7:18 PM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by OStewarts
Finally, I really just don't believe that we're in the mess that we are in because of public sector employees. Yes, they are a fragment of public spending and somehow, we all have been moved off topic from the continued tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. I think that a return to the Clinton-era tax structure would do more to resolve our issues than going after the lunch ladies' pensions. At the very least, we should raise the tax rates before go after middle class Americans.
No one is saying that Public Employees are the only ones at fault. You do realize that approximately only 50% of Americans pay any tax at all. We can't keep taxing the rich to make our problems go away. We have to get away from the entitlement mentality and start realizing that these programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare, while great in theory are bankrupting our nation. We can't afford them. They have spiraled out of control due to many factors. Number 1 probably being Abuses. Government is not a money making enterprise. It gets its money from taxation. You can't keep taxing the rich and think they will stick around and spend their money and work in our country they will move onto another country that are friendly to them. These evil corporations employee 75% of Americans...not Unions! I am so sick of people demonizing Wall Street and the corporations. But no one has a problem with Andy Stern the head of AFL-CIO making a $1Million plus a year!
ETA - to say that corps employ 75% of Americans not 75% of corps.
Message edited 3/11/2011 7:04:12 AM.
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| Posted 3/10/11 7:24 PM |
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beachgirl13
Mommy to 3 boys!
Member since 5/05 4114 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Demonizing wall street??? That's funny, it seems to me like the public workers are the ones getting demonized. Meanwhile, certain wall street workers are what caused the financial mess, yet public employees are the ones taking the hit.
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| Posted 3/10/11 9:14 PM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by beachgirl13
Demonizing wall street??? That's funny, it seems to me like the public workers are the ones getting demonized. Meanwhile, certain wall street workers are what caused the financial mess, yet public employees are the ones taking the hit.
Really??? Wall Street is always demonized way more than the Public Workers.
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| Posted 3/10/11 9:38 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by OStewarts
Finally, I really just don't believe that we're in the mess that we are in because of public sector employees. Yes, they are a fragment of public spending and somehow, we all have been moved off topic from the continued tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. I think that a return to the Clinton-era tax structure would do more to resolve our issues than going after the lunch ladies' pensions. At the very least, we should raise the tax rates before go after middle class Americans.
No one is saying that Public Employees are the only ones at fault. You do realize that approximately only 50% of Americans pay any tax at all. We can't keep taxing the rich to make our problems go away. We have to get away from the entitlement mentality and start realizing that these programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare, while great in theory are bankrupting our nation. We can't afford them. They have spiraled out of control due to many factors. Number 1 probably being Abuses. Government is not a money making enterprise. It gets its money from taxation. You can't keep taxing the rich and think they will stick around and spend their money and work in our country they will move onto another country that are friendly to them. 75% of these evil corporations employee Americans...not Unions! I am so sick of people demonizing Wall Street and the corporations. But no one has a problem with Andy Stern the head of AFL-CIO making a $1Million plus a year!
I just wanted to add that the only union I have had significant exposure to is the UAW. Both DH and I worked for automotive companies. When DH was an automotive engineer he worked at an auto plant for a while - as management not UAW. Under those circumstances the UAW was really an impediment to efficient manufacturing. DH would catch people smoking CRACK at the plant and the could not be fired! Mind you they were building CARS! They would be suspended for ONE day. MY DH would try to fire someone for not showing up to work for 20 days straight and the person would get suspended, with pay, for 1 week and then come back. The union stewards would spend their entire time threatening management- including threatening my DH that he was going to kick his A** - mind you this guy was also a druggie.
I could go on and on, but essentially I think that many unions have become counterproductive and wield to much power- it seems that the pendulum has swung both ways and needs to settle somewhere in the middle. I am all for what is happening in Wisconsin.
And for the record, in the beginning of my career there were many times when I worked 7 days/week 18 hour days and no one looked out for us - this is a luxury that most Americans do not have.
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| Posted 3/10/11 9:57 PM |
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ChrisDee
My Girls
Member since 11/06 9543 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by SlurpeeDad
Posted by mommy2Alex
Public unions in my opinion should not have collective bargaining rights. Federal Union employees do not. What private unions do is their business in my opinion. But Public Unions take the dues and use it to lobby politicans. They donate 90% to Democratics and they have the politicans in their back pockets which leds to corruption of the system because the politicians are "the bosses" so to speak. Even FDR did not believe in collective bargaining for Public Sector Employees because it corrupts the system. The NJ teachers union spent almost 7 million dollars lobbying politicians. That is insane
Well said.
DING DING DING!
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| Posted 3/10/11 10:30 PM |
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by beachgirl13
Demonizing wall street??? That's funny, it seems to me like the public workers are the ones getting demonized. Meanwhile, certain wall street workers are what caused the financial mess, yet public employees are the ones taking the hit.
Really??? Wall Street is always demonized way more than the Public Workers.
Would love to see some examples- I just find this hard to believe.
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| Posted 3/11/11 7:57 AM |
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by beachgirl13
Demonizing wall street??? That's funny, it seems to me like the public workers are the ones getting demonized. Meanwhile, certain wall street workers are what caused the financial mess, yet public employees are the ones taking the hit.
Really??? Wall Street is always demonized way more than the Public Workers.
Would love to see some examples- I just find this hard to believe.
ITA
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| Posted 3/11/11 8:02 AM |
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Peainapod
Peanuts are here!
Member since 1/09 13591 total posts
Name:
Diana
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by debidonnamom
Libby, you're not alone. I get confused over who/what/the Truth is too!!!! My Dad, now deceased, belonged to a union, while employed as a paper mill worker. I don't remember much, only that during a strike, we were given some food surplus items; Boxes of Velveta cheese, is the only one I remember. I don't think union membership helped my Dad, as far as wages, because until the day he died, we were poor, and Dad worked hard, seven days a week, and on the side!! I would like to be more educated about this. Do the unions really collect dues, but do little for the members? I've heard one teacher saying the union doesn't do much to help students, that their only roll is in teacher salaries, etc. Is this true? What is the role of a union? What is it suppose to accomplish, and what does it actually do? Mary
I agree. I really need to learn more about this. unions were a powerful tool back in the days of industrial revolution when working conditions were terrible, people were dying because factories werent safe. (Read the Jungle by Upton Sinclair..great book.) Unions created a revolution of change for working conditions. But i think they've evolved into something that isnt helpful or just too powerful these days.
My father is in a union. He's a locksmith for NYC. His pay is sh**; the city owes him back money for over 7 years now; and he has not had a raise in over 7 years because his union is probably one of the worst to be in.
So it goes both ways.
Im not really sure anymore why workers in the unions think they should not contribute to their health insurance and retirement. Everyone else does because they have to now, and the pensions and benefit pay outs are just destroying state budgets. Its a different time we are in now compared to years ago when companies offered pensions.
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| Posted 3/11/11 8:13 AM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
On an almost daily basis, I hear on the news how the recession was caused by the greedy Wall Street Bankers. How the greed of Wall Street is killing our country. The evil CEO's of corporations are making millions while the poor poor middle class is suffering. I hear the whining about Corporations on a daily basis. Meanwhile they employ 75% of the american workforce. People have problems with CEOs making millions of $$$. It is crazy. If Microsoft wants to pay its CEO 50 Million $$$ that is their business and if you don't like it, don't buy their products or stock.
Message edited 3/11/2011 8:14:42 AM.
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| Posted 3/11/11 8:14 AM |
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Nifheim
allo
Member since 1/09 5476 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
The problem with wall street is we bailed them out (tax payers) and they got bonuses. I don't think any civil servants got a bonus this year (yes raises did happen.) I don't feel sorry for people like Maddoff running scams playing god with people's money.
Now on taxes can't keep taxing the rich b/s. Um look at the tax history of this country? RICH PEOPLE PAY LESS then in the past. (see links)
Example 1
Video on taxes
Also major corporations DON"T PAY MUCH IN TAXES!!! On one article I found (dealing with wisconsin - University of Wisconsin-Madison economist Andrew Reschovsky said the state's tax laws do not require major oil companies to pay taxes on their worldwide profits.) So basically your a oil company you make BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS in sales that are not taxable nor a factor) Big business gives us jobs? Oh yea they give us jobs and every year take away a little more from each and every worker. Private sector workers allowed the industry to take away pensions, take away fully funded health care, etc - when you accept mediocre then you get it.
I do agree with reforms (said that over and over) i do agree with paying more and from my understanding all the unions in Wisconsin agreed to that - they just wanted to keep collective bargaining.
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| Posted 3/11/11 9:44 AM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Not every Wall Street Corporation was bailed out. I do not agree with the bailouts. And even if we taxed the rich at 100% of their salary wouldn't solve our problems.
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| Posted 3/11/11 9:51 AM |
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Nifheim
allo
Member since 1/09 5476 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
its a combination of things. Bring costs down, tighten spending AND bring in revenue. Its a very delicate balance and obviously none of us are qualified to judge what gets done. When people say get rid of social services then what happens to our poor? what happens to our sick? what happens to those who are old? Not my problem is not a good enough answer.
Yes all of wall street is not the problem just like all unions and public servants are not the enemy.
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| Posted 3/11/11 10:22 AM |
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Angelo26
LIF Zygote
Member since 2/11 20 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by Nifheim
Yes all of wall street is not the problem just like all unions and public servants are not the enemy.
Actually, Wall Street is the problem. The reason oil prices are so high is because position limits on commodities are too high or non-existant. A very small group of very wealthy people are driving the prices up.
Why do you think there are revolutions in the middle east? It's because the price of food commodities are being driven up so high that the poor in those countries (and there's a lot of them) can't afford to eat. The irony is that if they had done this 10 years ago there would have been no reason to go into Iraq and Afganistan.
I think rational people can see that banks "too big to fail" should have been broken up after Oct '08, in the same fashion as in the 1930's, after their depression. Over the years the regulations got lax, but the gov't is now owned by the big banks, so a break up or even some real regulations won't happen.
A lot of people think public unions shouldn't get involved in politics. But the fact is that many private corporations are trying to get money from the gov't, (by spending millions supporting their own candidates) which takes it out of the hands of public employees and put it into their own pockets. The public unions have no choice but to get involved.
By the way, when a political official says they want to hire a private company to provide the public with a service, they are saying, "I can't do my job, (which is to serve the public) so I'll pay someone else to do it."
Sorry about bringing this thread back to the top, but I felt the need to
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| Posted 3/11/11 11:02 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mommy2Alex
Where does the Public Union Salary come from? The taxpayers because the last time I checked, school districts nor the government are entites which create wealth. They collect their revenues from the taxes they collect.
and I pay taxes too. Lots of them: ~$40K this year (combined with DH)
But I guess I didn't really pay them, since the tax payers did (they came out of my check), but I paid some of those taxes, but it is still not my money, but some was my DH's from a private company, so maybe it is our money? 
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| Posted 3/12/11 9:36 AM |
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beachgirl13
Mommy to 3 boys!
Member since 5/05 4114 total posts
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
It bothers me that people blame unions for so many problems. Do people really want to go back to the way things were before unions? They paved the way for all the benefits and working conditions you have now, even if you aren't part of a union.
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| Posted 3/12/11 2:01 PM |
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SlurpeeDad
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/11 713 total posts
Name:
SlurpeeDad
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by beachgirl13
It bothers me that people blame unions for so many problems. Do people really want to go back to the way things were before unions? They paved the way for all the benefits and working conditions you have now, even if you aren't part of a union.
I agree that unions paved the way for better working conditions. I don't think working conditions would change if unions came to an end. I think unions, now, protect the weak workers and don't provide any incentive to work hard and rise above the rest. JMO.
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| Posted 3/12/11 2:10 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by beachgirl13
It bothers me that people blame unions for so many problems. Do people really want to go back to the way things were before unions? They paved the way for all the benefits and working conditions you have now, even if you aren't part of a union.
My goodness, people are such extremists. I don't think anyone wants to completely do away with unions. People want the benefits provided to union members brought in line with what the rest of us get and taxpayers are tired of funding these cadillac benefits to public employees that they do not enjoy themselves.
Does no union member recognize that pensions and other benefits given to public union members (that no-one outside unions receives) are bankrupting the municipalities or are they just concerned about themselves? Do union workers believe they are going to get anything if the municipalities go bankrupt? And, I'm not being an extremist because where there are $10billion deficits, bankruptcy is not far behind.
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| Posted 3/12/11 2:14 PM |
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cjik
Welcome 2010!
Member since 2/06 8879 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
To answer the original post, no dots to connect really, invoking Hitler's name is the thing to do at the moment for it's shock value. How many times have you heard Obama called a Socialist and Hitler in the same breath?
Unions to me, need to come down to earth and start making some concessions--some do, particularly in the private sector out of necessity. Public unions have been slow to do the same overall, IMO. I say this as a former member of DC 37. Through the union, I did get vision and dental through the union, continuing education in certain courses for free, and lower health and pension payments than if I were in the private sector for sure. And job protection, though the flip side of that is dealing with coworkers or supervising people who really should have been let go long ago yet still had jobs. I do think union protection does encourage a "that's not my job" mentality that I never saw in private companies I worked for, and that part is a shame.
But I don't see how WI taxpayers really benefit from this change. I think the governor did it purely for political gains and not for the interests of the people in his state.
Oh and as for the wealthy paying too much in taxes, they pay too little if anything and that is a problem. I am not talking about people earning $250K either--I am talking about the truly wealthy.
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| Posted 3/13/11 4:22 PM |
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ttcc
LIF Toddler
Member since 7/09 453 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by SlurpeeDad
I think unions, now, protect the weak workers and don't provide any incentive to work hard and rise above the rest. JMO.
This comment bothers the $hit out of me. I am in a union and I work hard b/c I WANT to do my job well. I WANT my students to learn. I understand that I am getting paid to do a job so I do it. I don't stop doing it b/c i have tenure.
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| Posted 3/13/11 8:49 PM |
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mom2aidan
2 boys & 1 girl :)
Member since 11/06 1874 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by ttcc
Posted by SlurpeeDad
I think unions, now, protect the weak workers and don't provide any incentive to work hard and rise above the rest. JMO.
This comment bothers the $hit out of me. I am in a union and I work hard b/c I WANT to do my job well. I WANT my students to learn. I understand that I am getting paid to do a job so I do it. I don't stop doing it b/c i have tenure.
Gee, I better go tell my FDNY/Union member DH that he is golf teacher thinks he is a weak worker... he just got off an almost 36 hour shift, 10 of which were spent putting out and investigating a building fire started by someone who was smoking a cigarette in bed.... he probably wasn't trying hard enough or working hard enough to put the fire out.... some people - and their blanket statements - are just unbelievable....
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| Posted 3/13/11 8:57 PM |
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SlurpeeDad
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/11 713 total posts
Name:
SlurpeeDad
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by mom2aidan
Posted by ttcc
Posted by SlurpeeDad
I think unions, now, protect the weak workers and don't provide any incentive to work hard and rise above the rest. JMO.
This comment bothers the $hit out of me. I am in a union and I work hard b/c I WANT to do my job well. I WANT my students to learn. I understand that I am getting paid to do a job so I do it. I don't stop doing it b/c i have tenure.
Gee, I better go tell my FDNY/Union member DH that he is golf teacher thinks he is a weak worker... he just got off an almost 36 hour shift, 10 of which were spent putting out and investigating a building fire started by someone who was smoking a cigarette in bed.... he probably wasn't trying hard enough or working hard enough to put the fire out.... some people - and their blanket statements - are just unbelievable....
So my blanket statement is worse then you comparing what your husband does to what other union workers do? Obviously there are people that will work hard no matter what, but I feel that unions make it easy to coast. Again, that is my opinion from things that I have witnessed. Also, my comment was about unions in general, not directed at anyone union in particular.
I don't know why everyone gets so defensive, it is just a different opinion then yours. I am sure there are people that think that I don't work hard because of what I do for a living, and you know what, I don't care. I know what I do and I don't have to sit there and pump myself up to the rest of LIF.
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| Posted 3/13/11 9:57 PM |
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mom2aidan
2 boys & 1 girl :)
Member since 11/06 1874 total posts
Name:
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Re: wisconsin, unions, hitler... please connect the dots for me
Posted by SlurpeeDad
Posted by mom2aidan
Posted by ttcc
Posted by SlurpeeDad
I think unions, now, protect the weak workers and don't provide any incentive to work hard and rise above the rest. JMO.
This comment bothers the $hit out of me. I am in a union and I work hard b/c I WANT to do my job well. I WANT my students to learn. I understand that I am getting paid to do a job so I do it. I don't stop doing it b/c i have tenure.
Gee, I better go tell my FDNY/Union member DH that he is golf teacher thinks he is a weak worker... he just got off an almost 36 hour shift, 10 of which were spent putting out and investigating a building fire started by someone who was smoking a cigarette in bed.... he probably wasn't trying hard enough or working hard enough to put the fire out.... some people - and their blanket statements - are just unbelievable....
So my blanket statement is worse then you comparing what your husband does to what other union workers do? Obviously there are people that will work hard no matter what, but I feel that unions make it easy to coast. Again, that is my opinion from things that I have witnessed. Also, my comment was about unions in general, not directed at anyone union in particular.
I don't know why everyone gets so defensive, it is just a different opinion then yours. I am sure there are people that think that I don't work hard because of what I do for a living, and you know what, I don't care. I know what I do and I don't have to sit there and pump myself up to the rest of LIF.
The fact that you made a comment about unions in general is the problem. We are not comprised of mostly "weak workers" and people who go into some of these professions don't need incentives to work harder - they work harder for intrinsic satisfaction.
And you are right - because of what you do I don't think you work hard. I'm glad that it doesn't upset you and that you don't have to defend yourself or pump yourself up for all of LIF.
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| Posted 3/13/11 10:33 PM |
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