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Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
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MsMBV
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
And here is where I go off on a tangent..... sorry guys.
Posted by dita
2. There would be a lot of lawns that weren't mowed, dishes not washed, construction not complete.
I think this is a gross over-statement. There are not only day-laborers here illegally. In addition, there used to be a market for high school and college aged students who did this type of work as well. It is not that "they do jobs no one else wants to," it is more like they do these jobs that used to be second jobs or before/after school jobs for less money.
One of the things that needs to be addressed in addition to the poor legislation surrounding the illegal immigrant issue is that the legal americans who are business owners that knowingly hire and pay undocumented workers off the books. This is also illegal and needs to be addressed by the government as well. If the companies that are trying to save money by hiring undocumented workers for minimum wage (or lower) are constantly slapped with fines and legal fees, eventually it will cost them more, rather than less to hire undocumented workers.
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Posted 4/10/07 7:23 AM  |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
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me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Does the word "illegal" mean anything to anyone anymore?
If not only for not paying taxes, using the system, etc..why should some immigrants go through the regular immigration system and not one particular population.
If the theory is to give a better life, fill jobs, etc.. In such case, let's really open the doors to ALL immigrants. Not just for some across the border.
Legal immigrants went through the immigration process legally, provided all kind of papers, are registered, yes.. pay taxes, etc. And most likelly spent time (up to several years!) and money to come here legally
It seems rather unfair to those people that because they don't speak a particular language or come from some countries they have to go through the regular system while others would not need to.
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| Posted 4/10/07 7:34 AM |
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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
I agree with the previous posters that it is the "illegal" part that gets to me. No problem with immigration -- just follow the rules! Lots of people have done it and lots of people are still doing it today!
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:29 AM |
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JennZ
MY LIFE!!
Member since 8/05 25463 total posts
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Maathy317
Posted by Tany
what is it that you have against illegal inmigrants?
Anyone who posts here has ancestors who were immigrants. All of them came to this country looking for a better way of life and entered the way they were supposed to. They learned the ways of this society and the language. They may have congregated into communities with like immigrants, but, when they entered the larger community they were eager to be a part of it and to contribute to it. People who come here illegally don't wish to do this. They want to take what they can, use the system to their advantage and send their resources back to another country. I don't care if they are brain surgeons or grave diggers. They contribute nothing to the society as a whole. Meanwhile, it is the honest, taxpaying citizens who take up the slack. We pay for their medical care, for the education of their children, for their housing. We shoulder the burden while they reap the benefits. I don't care what country they come from. They are like thieves in the night. They take what does not rightfully belong to them. Some say they do the jobs others do not want. However, it has been shown that they have taken jobs away because they work cheaper and employers (who contribute to the problem) save by not paying into the system. Are they hardworking? Absolutely. Do they deserve a fair day's wage for a day's work? Definitely. Should they be treated any differently than any other human being? No. However, they need to do what is right. They, simply, don't belong here or in any other country if they are here illegally. They need to pay their fair share, learn the language and be a part of society as a whole. American may be the "Great Melting Pot", but, if everyone in the pot doesn't work together for the benefit of the greater good, only disorder exists. This is a problem that will not be solved in a short period of time. It tooks years to evolve and it will take years to be corrected. Someday, someone will have the courage to step up and deal with it. Until then, there will be hatred, violence and a fractured social order.
Perfect 
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:34 AM |
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july06bride
I'm a mom!
Member since 5/05 3966 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Immigrants from certain countries have it "easier" coming to the US than other countries and that is why after $$$$$, and time-they get desperate and when an opportunity arises for them to come here illegally they jump on it...
DH's grandmother is dying (in the US) and his uncle in Ecuador put his paperwork in for a temporary VISA -not intending to stay in the US (his family will remain in Ecuador) and he can't even get that!!!!! The process has been going on since she became ill almost a year ago-and at this point it can be any day now-well, who knows if he will ever see his mother at this point...it's very sad-and that is just got a visa-
There are immigrants that came here illegally out of desperation-for all the same reasons our ancestors came...There are illegal immigrants who WANT to become recognized as citizens, they want to be able to pay taxes and be able to work at jobs other than "off the book" work...
I doubt that it will ever happen that all these illegal immigrants are mass deployed-so, if they are going to continue to allow the immigrants to be here, why not grant them citizenship so that they can pay taxes?
Message edited 4/10/2007 8:36:57 AM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:36 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MsMBV
And here is where I go off on a tangent..... sorry guys.
Posted by dita
2. There would be a lot of lawns that weren't mowed, dishes not washed, construction not complete.
I think this is a gross over-statement. There are not only day-laborers here illegally. In addition, there used to be a market for high school and college aged students who did this type of work as well. It is not that "they do jobs no one else wants to," it is more like they do these jobs that used to be second jobs or before/after school jobs for less money.
One of the things that needs to be addressed in addition to the poor legislation surrounding the illegal immigrant issue is that the legal americans who are business owners that knowingly hire and pay undocumented workers off the books. This is also illegal and needs to be addressed by the government as well. If the companies that are trying to save money by hiring undocumented workers for minimum wage (or lower) are constantly slapped with fines and legal fees, eventually it will cost them more, rather than less to hire undocumented workers.
I 100% agree with this.
The other "argument" that gets me riled up is when people say
"Well if it weren't for illegal immigrants none of us would be here because that's how this country was started."
Right. But we also had slavery and oppression and poverty and no rights for women or minorities.
Things change and using the "but they used to do it" excuse isn't valid.
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:56 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MsMBV
[I do wish that the legalization & naturalization process were easier and more "user-friendly" so to speak. .
This is the problem. While I agree, it's not fair for someone to come to this country illegally, take advantage of all this country has to offer, but not pay back in return as all other U.S. citizens are required, BUT, this country makes it virtually impossible. The immigration laws are geared towards allowing only highly educated, literate, and fairly well-off people of other country's to immigrate legally.
Has anyone seen the paperwork that's involved? The tremendous, and I'm talking, insane, fees for each and every "petition" that you have to file? My husband is currently going through the process, and while I consider myself a well-educated, fairly intelligent attorney, I've only been able to help sporadically, and instead, we've had to rely on the services of an immigration attorney. Want to know how much that bill came to? Let's see, I think it was over $10,000!
There's no way the average U.S. citizen could afford it, much less an underprivileged immigrant - is this a fair basis to restrict immigrants? Maybe. Maybe we should go with a free economy - only those who can afford to come here legally should. But, something smacks of injustice in that, in my mind...
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:56 AM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by july06bride
There are immigrants that came here illegally out of desperation-for all the same reasons our ancestors came...There are illegal immigrants who WANT to become recognized as citizens, they want to be able to pay taxes and be able to work at jobs other than "off the book" work...
This is where I think our government is lacking. It is very difficult for someone who came here in a desperate or refugee/political asylum situation to become legal without worry of being deported. When someone wants to be come legal but is afraid to, that is INS not doing the right thing IMO.
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| Posted 4/10/07 8:57 AM |
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cazhley
I ♥ cheesiness.
Member since 1/07 1429 total posts
Name:
Cassie
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MsMBV
[I do wish that the legalization & naturalization process were easier and more "user-friendly" so to speak. .
This is the problem. While I agree, it's not fair for someone to come to this country illegally, take advantage of all this country has to offer, but not pay back in return as all other U.S. citizens are required, BUT, this country makes it virtually impossible. The immigration laws are geared towards allowing only highly educated, literate, and fairly well-off people of other country's to immigrate legally.
Has anyone seen the paperwork that's involved? The tremendous, and I'm talking, insane, fees for each and every "petition" that you have to file? My husband is currently going through the process, and while I consider myself a well-educated, fairly intelligent attorney, I've only been able to help sporadically, and instead, we've had to rely on the services of an immigration attorney. Want to know how much that bill came to? Let's see, I think it was over $10,000!
There's no way the average U.S. citizen could afford it, much less an underprivileged immigrant - is this a fair basis to restrict immigrants? Maybe. Maybe we should go with a free economy - only those who can afford to come here legally should. But, something smacks of injustice in that, in my mind...
This is also what is happening with a friend from another country. She is a highly-educated computer consultant. She has been going through her application the legal way. She has spent tens of thousands of dollars so far in legal fees. It has been 5 years and she is still working on getting her green card. Currently, she is back in her country.
Another friend from Ireland was able to get here legally, but only because Ireland had a lottery. She was lucky enough to win a spot.
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| Posted 4/10/07 9:08 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by dita
1. It would be a huge expense to deport all of them
2. There would be a lot of lawns that weren't mowed, dishes not washed, construction not complete.
I'm not saying I'm happy about having all of these non tax paying people here but I don't think deporting them is the answer. If it could be done, I would think granting amnesty, making them pay taxes and staying here would be good. After that anyone would doesn't pay taxes should get the boot.
i agree...but not all lawn movers are all ILLEGAL, there are many Mexicans, El Salvadoreans, and Hondurans here that are LEGAL, and like someone said about why not hire high school students, because we now live in a society where these kids want to work for NOTHING and get paid big bucks and are LAZY!!!!
Message edited 4/10/2007 9:12:38 AM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 9:09 AM |
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KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
While I value everyones responses no one has answered my question, as awkwardly as I had asked it. Why is deporting illegals such an issue? Yes, there are a lot of them but what is wrong with one at a time (yes, I am talking after our borders are secure and none can enter when and where they so choose). This thread has taken on a whole different direction from what I had originally intentioned it to be starting with the "what do I have against illegal immigrants anyway". I wasn't asking for that kind of comments my feeling on the issue is irrelivant. I was just curious if someone could tell me why there has to be amnesty, paid or otherwise, given and they don't have to be deported for breaking our laws?
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| Posted 4/10/07 9:39 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MsMBV
[I do wish that the legalization & naturalization process were easier and more "user-friendly" so to speak. .
This is the problem. While I agree, it's not fair for someone to come to this country illegally, take advantage of all this country has to offer, but not pay back in return as all other U.S. citizens are required, BUT, this country makes it virtually impossible. The immigration laws are geared towards allowing only highly educated, literate, and fairly well-off people of other country's to immigrate legally.
Has anyone seen the paperwork that's involved? The tremendous, and I'm talking, insane, fees for each and every "petition" that you have to file? My husband is currently going through the process, and while I consider myself a well-educated, fairly intelligent attorney, I've only been able to help sporadically, and instead, we've had to rely on the services of an immigration attorney. Want to know how much that bill came to? Let's see, I think it was over $10,000!
There's no way the average U.S. citizen could afford it, much less an underprivileged immigrant - is this a fair basis to restrict immigrants? Maybe. Maybe we should go with a free economy - only those who can afford to come here legally should. But, something smacks of injustice in that, in my mind...
Are you talking green card or US citizenship?
It does not cost $10K to become a permanent resident.
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| Posted 4/10/07 9:54 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Diane
Posted by dita
1. It would be a huge expense to deport all of them
2. There would be a lot of lawns that weren't mowed, dishes not washed, construction not complete.
I'm not saying I'm happy about having all of these non tax paying people here but I don't think deporting them is the answer. If it could be done, I would think granting amnesty, making them pay taxes and staying here would be good. After that anyone would doesn't pay taxes should get the boot.
i agree...but not all lawn movers are all ILLEGAL, there are many Mexicans, El Salvadoreans, and Hondurans here that are LEGAL, and like someone said about why not hire high school students, because we now live in a society where these kids want to work for NOTHING and get paid big bucks and are LAZY!!!!
I actually hired college student to rack my leaves. He was very happy to do the job.
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| Posted 4/10/07 9:55 AM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by KPtoys
While I value everyones responses no one has answered my question, as awkwardly as I had asked it. Why is deporting illegals such an issue? Yes, there are a lot of them but what is wrong with one at a time (yes, I am talking after our borders are secure and none can enter when and where they so choose). This thread has taken on a whole different direction from what I had originally intentioned it to be starting with the "what do I have against illegal immigrants anyway". I wasn't asking for that kind of comments my feeling on the issue is irrelivant. I was just curious if someone could tell me why there has to be amnesty, paid or otherwise, given and they don't have to be deported for breaking our laws?
I think some of the responses do reflect the answer you were looking for, though. Deportation is a bit unfair in that not all immigrants are in a situation to be documented before coming here. But if allowed to become legalized in an efficient (and not riduculously expensive manner) then I think more undocumented immigrants would actually come here legally from the get-go.
As far as deportation, I think it is an extreme measure to cover up the shortcomings of our own INS.
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:05 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by smdl
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MsMBV
[I do wish that the legalization & naturalization process were easier and more "user-friendly" so to speak. .
This is the problem. While I agree, it's not fair for someone to come to this country illegally, take advantage of all this country has to offer, but not pay back in return as all other U.S. citizens are required, BUT, this country makes it virtually impossible. The immigration laws are geared towards allowing only highly educated, literate, and fairly well-off people of other country's to immigrate legally.
Has anyone seen the paperwork that's involved? The tremendous, and I'm talking, insane, fees for each and every "petition" that you have to file? My husband is currently going through the process, and while I consider myself a well-educated, fairly intelligent attorney, I've only been able to help sporadically, and instead, we've had to rely on the services of an immigration attorney. Want to know how much that bill came to? Let's see, I think it was over $10,000!
There's no way the average U.S. citizen could afford it, much less an underprivileged immigrant - is this a fair basis to restrict immigrants? Maybe. Maybe we should go with a free economy - only those who can afford to come here legally should. But, something smacks of injustice in that, in my mind...
Are you talking green card or US citizenship?
It does not cost $10K to become a permanent resident.
Green card is one step of many to obtain permanent residency, and ultimately U.S. citizenship. Currently, we just filed a petition to remove the conditions on his permanent residency - the petition itself, which is one of dozens that we've filed over the years, cost about $200. The process itself doesn't cost $10k, but if you can't make sense of any of it, and have to hire an attorney, then yes, in total, it can cost upwards of $10k. My husband started out on a work visa, and once we got married, moved to residency based on marriage. To obtain his work visa, he spent thousands in hiring an attorney. We spent thousands more to start the process to receive residency based on marriage. To remove the conditions on residence, it probably would have cost another $1k-$2k but thankfully, I was able to do it for us, saving that cost. Then, the next step is U.S. citizenship, which costs more money in petitions, and if you use an attorney, a few thousand more.
It adds up.
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:05 AM |
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july06bride
I'm a mom!
Member since 5/05 3966 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
unfair in that not all immigrants are in a situation to be documented before coming here. But if allowed to become legalized in an efficient (and not riduculously expensive manner) then I think more undocumented immigrants would actually come here legally from the get-go.
100% AGREE
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:18 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
"illegals" come here for VARIED reasons. and MANY PAY TAXES. they do BACK BREAKING work for little pay, which is why they are HIRED in the first place.
I work for the Fed gov in a place where we see every kind of lechery on the tax payer and on society.
believe me when I say, the "legal" citzens of this country are the ones bleeding it dry.
every immigrant I know, whether they have been legal or not, has worked themselves to the bone for the American dream for their families.
it behooves businesses to keep them illegal...then they don't have to pay SS, payroll tax, medical insurance...the list goes on.
I think it's closeminded to assume they don't want to pay taxes and are "using" this country. this country is using THEM, and has been since boats began landing on Plymouth Rock.
ETA: deportation DOES happen, the govt has to pay for it.
Imagine purchasing plane tickets for 12 million people.
and then imagine trying to fill the jobs that would be left vacated...by "american born" or citizens..minimum wages is what...over $7 now...you think diners are going to start paying their dishwashers that much, PLUS benefits and payroll tax..
imagine how much that would cost this country and the economy
Message edited 4/10/2007 10:50:41 AM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:46 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Ophelia
"illegals" come here for VARIED reasons. and MANY PAY TAXES. they do BACK BREAKING work for little pay, which is why they are HIRED in the first place.
How do you pay taxes without a SS#?
I agree, I think many of them come here for a better life and work their a$$es off, but that doesn't make it right.
They are still breaking the law and not following the regulations of our country and thereby making it harder for people who do try to legally come here.
And I think any business or individual who hires them should be held responsible as well.
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:49 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by leighla
Posted by Ophelia
"illegals" come here for VARIED reasons. and MANY PAY TAXES. they do BACK BREAKING work for little pay, which is why they are HIRED in the first place.
How do you pay taxes without a SS#?
I agree, I think many of them come here for a better life and work their a$$es off, but that doesn't make it right.
They are still breaking the law and not following the regulations of our country and thereby making it harder for people who do try to legally come here.
And I think any business or individual who hires them should be held responsible as well.
there are many ways to skin a cat.
and how are they making it harder? every country has a "quota" but if we are talking "undocumented" workers, the quota is not being filled by them.
I don't think one effects the other.
the simple fact is the bureaucracy of this country makes EVERYTHING SLOW. it would not be any easier or faster if illegal immigration was "irradicated"
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| Posted 4/10/07 10:53 AM |
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MugzyB1025
LIF Zygote
Member since 4/07 12 total posts
Name:
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Uh, let's see... They're ILLEGAL!!!!
Message edited 12/9/2007 9:26:54 PM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 11:06 AM |
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pharmcat2000
Mom of 2 + 1
Member since 10/05 7395 total posts
Name:
Catherine
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Ophelia
they do BACK BREAKING work for little pay,
and then imagine trying to fill the jobs that would be left vacated...by "american born" or citizens..minimum wages is what...over $7 now...you think diners are going to start paying their dishwashers that much, PLUS benefits and payroll tax..
imagine how much that would cost this country and the economy
I agree that they do work very hard, but to say none of them get paid a fair wage is untrue. I know one of them that was taking home, at the end of the week just about the same as me, and I went to school for 7 years, have a doctorate degree, and have $70k in student loan to show for it. The difference is that I get to pay almost 30% of my salary to the government that he doesn't have to do!! THAT is injustice!!!
Oh, and by our society accepting that they speak another language and caters to that, we are in essence accepting the fact that they haven't had to go through the same processes as our ancestors.
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| Posted 4/10/07 11:09 AM |
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by leighla
And I think any business or individual who hires them should be held responsible as well.
Its hard when the deception goes so deep.
You would think that if you hire an employee that has to provide all sorts of proof of ID and residency and licenses from the US Department of Labor they would be legit.
Well WRONG!
I can't tell you how many employees turn up as "invalid" after the fact. And guess what? They are supposed to be card carrying, legal, residents with ASBESTOS HANDLER licenses from the US DOL AND members of a local NYC Union.
But have slipped through their systems with phony credentials.
Very disturbing...
Message edited 4/10/2007 11:44:23 AM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 11:44 AM |
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cazhley
I ♥ cheesiness.
Member since 1/07 1429 total posts
Name:
Cassie
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
On a technical note:
I think that when a person pays rent for housing, he or she is helping the landlord pay for property taxes.
When a person buys goods, he or she pays taxes.
Some states don't have state income taxes, and rely mostly on sales taxes for revenue.
Some people get fake SS #s and have taxes deducted from their pay.
Though a person who doesn't have or use a S.S. # or Fed Tax ID is likely not paying federal income taxes.
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| Posted 4/10/07 11:53 AM |
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by cub
Some people get fake SS #s and have taxes deducted from their pay.
Though a person who doesn't have or use a S.S. # or Fed Tax ID is likely not paying federal income taxes.
Most of the time, a good red flag for someone with a fake SS # or using their cousins wife sisters fathers SS # is when you see 8,10 and 12 dependents listed on their W4. (oh yes, I have seen it)
Reasoning? They get minimal taxes taken out and never file taxes.
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| Posted 4/10/07 12:01 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by pharmcat2000
Oh, and by our society accepting that they speak another language and caters to that, we are in essence accepting the fact that they haven't had to go through the same processes as our ancestors.
This used to tick off my grandfather more than anything. He was treated like a POS when he came here & only knew a few words in english. He immersed himself best he could & befriended other Italian-Americans so that he could learn the culture & the language as quickly as possible. Before that he had no real job & no prospects. They lived in an old boarding house that was owned by another IA immigrant who established themselves in this country. It was not easy for him to come here, and then to meld into society. He used to get so aggravated when he saw people who have lived here for many years, even through generations, that will not learn to speak english. (I know it is not technically our *official* language, since we do not have one, but the majority of society, including all relevant governmental documents were written in english).
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| Posted 4/10/07 12:14 PM |
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