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Why can't anyone concede anything?
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
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Why can't anyone concede anything?
Being the political junkie that I am, I have been watching these threads for the past few weeks, and I am just shocked at how every single one descends into vicious sniping and bickering. The only real way forward is to find some middle ground in this highly polarized climate where liberals and conservatives exist in totally separate realities that have been curated for them by a media cohort that doesn't even seem to try to be objective anymore. It's so incredibly frustrating to watch people make intelligent points, and neither side even entertains them long enough to concede even the smallest nugget of truth.
I am a die-hard liberal who has already reached out to several legislators on Trump's conflicts of interest and plans to march in January on the social freedoms jeopardized by his cabinet appointments, but I can also acknowledge that he has dialed back the rhetoric on several key issues: same-sex marriage, HRC's prosecution, the "wall," etc. I have to hope (as do we all) that these are small victories since we cannot fight all the decisions all the time.
For the Trump supporters, some of the moves he's made since winning have been so deeply unsettling that it's hard to take any argument seriously when you cannot concede even the smallest criticism of your own candidate. I can't say I fully understand why intelligent people would vote for him right now, but I'd like to, and an intelligent argument addresses the shades of gray.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and the beginning of the holiday season, which should prompt us to focus on compassion and our common humanity. In that spirit, I just wish we could have constructive civic dialogue that moves toward mutual understanding and progress or none at all.
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Posted 11/23/16 4:43 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Why can't anyone concede anything?
This was so well written and correct. There are such blatant mistakes and conflicts here-if you're wrong on something, you're wrong-I don't get how you can cheer most of what is going on. There's anti establishment and then there is insanity and denial.
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| Posted 11/23/16 5:54 AM |
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mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!
Member since 3/09 8585 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
I understand your points and I agree with much of what you have said. I too am a liberal and will be marching. I can't dial back on Trump not now and probably not ever. Sure he now says he won't build the wall, won't charge HRC but this is one the reasons I feel like we have to scream louder. The man is unstable and I think the world's dumbest narcissists. He uses these tactics to fool the American people, to create distraction from what he is trying to do now which is bring the alt right into the white house and to hide his conflicts of interest. I also don't think anyone is cheering on this divide. I think those of us on the left feel real fear for our country. It's like watching the train barreling down the tracks and you know it's going to hit something but you can't stop it. I don't think we can help but scream.
This president elect is unlike anyone we have ever seen in history and the responses he has evoked are extreme on both sides. It is hard to find a middle or to let it die down.
Message edited 11/23/2016 6:24:35 AM.
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| Posted 11/23/16 6:22 AM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by mnmsoinlove
I understand your points and I agree with much of what you have said. I too am a liberal and will be marching. I can't dial back on Trump not now and probably not ever. Sure he now says he won't build the wall, won't charge HRC but this is one the reasons I feel like we have to scream louder. The man is unstable and I think the world's dumbest narcissists. He uses these tactics to fool the American people, to create distraction from what he is trying to do now which is bring the alt right into the white house and to hide his conflicts of interest. I also don't think anyone is cheering on this divide. I think those of us on the left feel real fear for our country. It's like watching the train barreling down the tracks and you know it's going to hit something but you can't stop it. I don't think we can help but scream.
This president elect is unlike anyone we have ever seen in history and the responses he has evoked are extreme on both sides. It is hard to find a middle or to let it die down.
Hey, listen, I am pretty well horrified by him too. However, none of his policies will be the least bit influenced by arguing on a local Long Island forum (not to say you personally are, idk, but that's what I was talking about in the OP). In fact, the louder and more aggressively we scream, the less likely people with different views are to listen. The fact is that the urban, liberal vote does not mean as much as the rural (usually conservative) because of the way the founding fathers constructed our system (senate, electoral college) so if we don't hear the plights that lead those people to vote in a guy like Trump, then we are doomed to repeat this cycle.
Trust me: quietly, in the background, I am reading, watching every move, writing letters, donating to advocacy organizations, and engaging in protest. That's how we reign him in. But we do need to work toward at least understanding fellow American voters even if we refuse to normalize the actions and rhetoric of the president-elect.
Message edited 11/23/2016 7:06:56 AM.
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| Posted 11/23/16 7:05 AM |
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Chai77
Brighter days ahead
Member since 4/07 7364 total posts
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Ok, I'll bite. In the spirit of the holiday, I'll admit that I did appreciate Pence's statement regarding the Hamilton incident. Although I'm not sure I believe him, I think he sounds dignified, unifying and strong enough to take criticism. I like the last statement especially about freedom. CNN.com quoting Pence:
"I did hear what was said from the stage. I can tell you I wasn't offended by what was said. I will leave to others whether that was the appropriate venue to say it," he said on "Fox News Sunday."
"I do want to say that the basic element, the center of that message is one I want to address and that is I know this is a very disappointing time for people that did not see their candidate win in this national election," Pence said.
"I know this is a very anxious time for some people. I just want to reassure people what President-elect Donald Trump said on election night -- he absolutely meant from the bottom of his heart," he said.
"He is preparing to be the President of all of the people of the United States of America and to watch him bringing together people of diverse views, bringing people together who disagreed with him strongly, seeing him talk to leaders around the world, I just want to reassure every American that in the days ahead I am very confident that they are going to see President-elect Trump be a president for all of the people and we embrace that principle. We are going to work hard to make that principle every day that we serve."
The "Hamilton" cast's message to Pence came after some in the crowd booed the Republican Vice President-elect.
Pence said he did notice the booing, but it didn't spoil the show.
"My daughter and I and her cousins really enjoyed the show. 'Hamilton' is just an incredible production, incredibly talented people. It was a real joy to be there," Pence said.
"When we arrived we heard a few boos, and we heard some cheers," he said, "I nudged my kids and reminded them that is what freedom sounds like."
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| Posted 11/23/16 7:21 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
All interesing points by everyone
I agree I was pleased by Pences comments after Hamilton
I am pleased that TRump is not going to pursue charging Hillary
I am pleased Trump is considering that humans are affecting climate change
I dont like that Trump supporters never comment on his bizzarre behavior and what his administration plus republicans want to do or have done (especially this last week) but they will pick on small things like the Hamilton cast members tweets as a distraction. They have very little to go by lately as far as positive things their choice of PEOTUS is doing or has done
Its tit for tat instead of having dialogue. Its blaming instead of understanding
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| Posted 11/23/16 7:35 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Why can't anyone concede anything?
It has been difficult, to say the least. While on most issues I identify as a staunch liberal, I consider myself a moderate-left. As a history teacher, I cannot overlook the many glaring examples of hatred and overt fascism. I think what hurts the most is to see family members support him and say, "get over it, he won". Could you imagine how I hurt, knowing that (ignorant and intelligent, educated) people I love can possibly subscribe to this hate? So difficult to hear this around a table and not stand on a chair and scream my brains out.
I want to keep the peace and have a nice thanksgiving, I really do, but I can't help but feel that any defense of his election prompts an ebullient anger- from me. And I'm not like that. I think it's even harder for me to digest this about myself. So while I couldn't agree with you more, the struggle is real. 
Message edited 11/23/2016 8:03:01 AM.
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| Posted 11/23/16 8:02 AM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by LIRascal
It has been difficult, to say the least. While on most issues I identify as a staunch liberal, I consider myself a moderate-left. As a history teacher, I cannot overlook the many glaring examples of hatred and overt fascism. I think what hurts the most is to see family members support him and say, "get over it, he won". Could you imagine how I hurt, knowing that (ignorant and intelligent, educated) people I love can possibly subscribe to this hate? So difficult to hear this around a table and not stand on a chair and scream my brains out.
I want to keep the peace and have a nice thanksgiving, I really do, but I can't help but feel that any defense of his election prompts an ebullient anger- from me. And I'm not like that. I think it's even harder for me to digest this about myself. So while I couldn't agree with you more, the struggle is real.
 I feel you. You have to remind yourself that this is not about liberal v. conservative. It's not about the fact that a republican won and you're being a "sore loser." Ask yourself: Would you have felt this way if McCain or Romney had won? Did you get like this when Bush won? I'd bet no.
Go easy on yourself. 
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| Posted 11/23/16 9:00 AM |
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
All interesting and good points brought up in this thread so far and I can't disagree with much of what is already written. I voted for Hillary as an anti-Trump vote but talking to some of my colleagues who voted for Trump and putting aside my feelings on the matter, I can understand why they voted for him. I am surprised this wasn't mentioned or harped on by other Trump voters but the fact is, Hillary was indeed a very flawed candidate. I do not think she was more flawed than Donald but she had a lot of problems: 1) she had baggage - having lost in 2008 to Obama, and 2) all the string of scandals since her days as First Lady (emailgate, whitewater, 3) campaigned poorly [took many of her supporters for granted (did not even visit Wisconsin, a battleground state, while Donald did as many as 5 rallies a day), 4) was under FBI investigation (no other Presidential canddiate has even been this close to getting indicted before assuming office); 5) supported Open Borders which to many - meant a continuation of Obama policies and illegal immigration.
I can't say I disagree with these points because they are true. Facts are facts. Immigration is a big issue and even though Obama deported so many, many voters were fed up with the increasing # of immigrants coming in and using up resources/entitlements that should go to Americans. Thats really all it came down to and why I think Trump edged out Hillary on the electoral votes.
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| Posted 11/23/16 10:09 AM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by EclecticEsq10810
All interesting and good points brought up in this thread so far and I can't disagree with much of what is already written. I voted for Hillary as an anti-Trump vote but talking to some of my colleagues who voted for Trump and putting aside my feelings on the matter, I can understand why they voted for him. I am surprised this wasn't mentioned or harped on by other Trump voters but the fact is, Hillary was indeed a very flawed candidate. I do not think she was more flawed than Donald but she had a lot of problems: 1) she had baggage - having lost in 2008 to Obama, and 2) all the string of scandals since her days as First Lady (emailgate, whitewater, 3) campaigned poorly [took many of her supporters for granted (did not even visit Wisconsin, a battleground state, while Donald did as many as 5 rallies a day), 4) was under FBI investigation (no other Presidential canddiate has even been this close to getting indicted before assuming office); 5) supported Open Borders which to many - meant a continuation of Obama policies and illegal immigration.
I can't say I disagree with these points because they are true. Facts are facts. Immigration is a big issue and even though Obama deported so many, many voters were fed up with the increasing # of immigrants coming in and using up resources/entitlements that should go to Americans. Thats really all it came down to and why I think Trump edged out Hillary on the electoral votes.
Many of those points were made multiple times by many republicans on this board over the past few months. They were lost in between people calling them racists or saying they had their head in the sand.
I do not think there has been one person that every claimed Trump was the be all end all. He is as corrupt as all the politicians in our country but people voted for who they think would put the country in the right direction. I know I have personally stated on these boards I have not agreed with some of his picks so far. It is very difficult to have any sort of conversation/respectable debate when threads start going down the accusatory route - "I hope your happy now trump supporters, trump supporters voted in a racist pig so you must be ok with that, your white privilege is showing" and so on and so on.
Maybe instead of just slamming a man who won the election fair and square and will be here for the next 4 years, concentrate on things that need to be fixed in this country. Updating our military, helping our homeless, protecting our citizens, working on change in our urban centers that empower people to have better lives, respecting our veterans and providing them with the services that are needed, fixing our economy to bring jobs back to the united states, teach people that they need to work hard to succeed and not just look for a handout, fix our education system that is failing numerous children, teach tolerance and acceptness – you can’t force people to change their core views overnight but you can teach and demand tolerance and respect for all.. That is what people should be protesting about. That is what both sides should be coming together to try to get done regardless of who won the Presidency because those problems would be there no matter who won.
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| Posted 11/23/16 10:34 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Why can't anyone concede anything?
I am trying very hard to see a glimmer of hope in his administration. But, every day he does something that reminds me how unbelievable unfit he is for the position. Things like asking Ben Carson to be HUD sec. after he already said he is unqualified, asking Nikki Haley to be UN Ambassador even though she has zero foreign relations experience, the massive conflicts of interest with his company, the fraud case, his asinine tweets about the media/SNL, and so on.
I'm just not confident that he can do the job. It's telling to me that he goes on a twitter rant regarding Hamilton, meanwhile the man who was personally affected by the situation had no issue with what was said. It's like he has the mentality of a 7 year old. And I'm not saying that to be mean or divisive. It is something that truly frightens me.
A NYT reporter tweeted something the other day that totally rings true. She basically said that Trump takes the position on things of the last person he spoke to about it. For example, waterboarding. He was all gung ho about torture being an effective method during the campaign. Now, after speaking with General Mattis (who explained to him that it is not effective) he agrees with him. Another example, climate change. He once said it was a hoax created by the Chinese. Now, in yesterday's NYT meeting he said he sees "some connectivity" between humans and climate change. It's like you can never believe anything he says because he will change his mind at the drop of a hat.
And now he is considering Jerry Falwell, Jr. for education sec.? I mean, what?
The main issue that I worry about is the economy during the next 4 years. His tax plan very clearly favors the rich, and gives very little relief to lower tax brackets. As a family that struggles financially, this is very troublesome.
All in all, of course I want see him do well. But, as of right now, he has given me very little reason to be hopeful. I hope he proves me wrong.
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| Posted 11/23/16 10:54 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by EclecticEsq10810
All interesting and good points brought up in this thread so far and I can't disagree with much of what is already written. I voted for Hillary as an anti-Trump vote but talking to some of my colleagues who voted for Trump and putting aside my feelings on the matter, I can understand why they voted for him. I am surprised this wasn't mentioned or harped on by other Trump voters but the fact is, Hillary was indeed a very flawed candidate. I do not think she was more flawed than Donald but she had a lot of problems: 1) she had baggage - having lost in 2008 to Obama, and 2) all the string of scandals since her days as First Lady (emailgate, whitewater, 3) campaigned poorly [took many of her supporters for granted (did not even visit Wisconsin, a battleground state, while Donald did as many as 5 rallies a day), 4) was under FBI investigation (no other Presidential canddiate has even been this close to getting indicted before assuming office); 5) supported Open Borders which to many - meant a continuation of Obama policies and illegal immigration.
I can't say I disagree with these points because they are true. Facts are facts. Immigration is a big issue and even though Obama deported so many, many voters were fed up with the increasing # of immigrants coming in and using up resources/entitlements that should go to Americans. Thats really all it came down to and why I think Trump edged out Hillary on the electoral votes.
Many of those points were made multiple times by many republicans on this board over the past few months. They were lost in between people calling them racists or saying they had their head in the sand.
I do not think there has been one person that every claimed Trump was the be all end all. He is as corrupt as all the politicians in our country but people voted for who they think would put the country in the right direction. I know I have personally stated on these boards I have not agreed with some of his picks so far. It is very difficult to have any sort of conversation/respectable debate when threads start going down the accusatory route - "I hope your happy now trump supporters, trump supporters voted in a racist pig so you must be ok with that, your white privilege is showing" and so on and so on.
Maybe instead of just slamming a man who won the election fair and square and will be here for the next 4 years, concentrate on things that need to be fixed in this country. Updating our military, helping our homeless, protecting our citizens, working on change in our urban centers that empower people to have better lives, respecting our veterans and providing them with the services that are needed, fixing our economy to bring jobs back to the united states, teach people that they need to work hard to succeed and not just look for a handout, fix our education system that is failing numerous children, teach tolerance and acceptness – you can’t force people to change their core views overnight but you can teach and demand tolerance and respect for all.. That is what people should be protesting about. That is what both sides should be coming together to try to get done regardless of who won the Presidency because those problems would be there no matter who won.
I am pretty sure no one thinks any candidate is the "be all end all." Saying this is, IMO, an effort to distance oneself from the Trump flaws that are too serious and frightening for anyone to credibly distance themselves from.
This is not Republican v. Democratic anymore...but that has been said many times.
I am not saying all Trump voters are racist and I will not judge them as people. If I do judge them, it's because of accompanying behaviors, not the vote itself. I will always maintain, given what we knew about Trump at the time, that the people who voted for him made a shameful and despicable decision. I will stand by that, although I (genuinely) try not to dwell on it.
It might look like a lot of people on here are just complaining, but there is a LOT of social action going on that Trump supporters might not see because it just might not show up as often in their social media feeds. A lot of really great organizing is going on now, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Trump is backing off some of his more offensive stances. Therefore, I, along with others on here, will continue to fight the good fight with phone calls, letters, protests, etc. despite the obvious disdain that people have exhibited, both on here and elsewhere, for protesting, which is sad especially on a board mostly of women. How does everyone think we got the right to vote?
I do agree that the rhetoric could afford to come down on both sides. I wrote what I thought was a kind and conciliatory post on the police outrage thread and it basically died after that. So, yeah, some people do seem to want to just make generalizations and argue.
But regarding your last paragraph.... I don't know. I just saw so much clarity, direction and hope in Hillary's answers to these problems. She had complex, nuanced plans for complex, nuanced problems. Trump didn't. And doesn't. Prominent economists on both ends of the spectrum have poked hole after hole in the plans he does have. Mexican's didn't steal anyone's jobs - technology did. We produce MORE than we did 40 years ago, we just do it with better technology and less people. I mean, look, I could go on and on. But it's SO frustrating to see so many people look to HIM for hope when he is so clearly driven by self interest and very, very much "establishment."
So when it comes to coming together.... with whom? What does that mean? You (general you) are MORE than welcome to join in the voice against hate, stupidity, and ignorance. You are more than welcome to join in speaking out to representatives to urge them to make sure we have a tax plan that does not favor the rich. You are more than welcome to urge your Senators to block any justice that would overturn Roe and endanger the lives and livelihoods of millions of women. I won't say I told you so, or you got conned, etc. I'll just say welcome.
I could go on. But you did what you have to do, and now I, and others who think like me, have to do what we have to do.
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| Posted 11/23/16 10:59 AM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by JennP
I could go on. But you did what you have to do, and now I, and others who think like me, have to do what we have to do.
I'm not quoting your last sentence for any real reason, basically just because it was too long to re-quote the entire thing.
I think that many things that you wrote are absolutely valid and some the things I disagree on are just fundamental issues that we would never agree on but that is fine. We do not have to agree. That is the beauty of living in the United States.
If all the posts were like yours and just showed views and beliefs instead of generalizing and stereotyping one side as bad and one side as good, we could have some very good conversations.
Thank you.
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| Posted 11/23/16 11:18 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by seaside
Posted by LIRascal
It has been difficult, to say the least. While on most issues I identify as a staunch liberal, I consider myself a moderate-left. As a history teacher, I cannot overlook the many glaring examples of hatred and overt fascism. I think what hurts the most is to see family members support him and say, "get over it, he won". Could you imagine how I hurt, knowing that (ignorant and intelligent, educated) people I love can possibly subscribe to this hate? So difficult to hear this around a table and not stand on a chair and scream my brains out.
I want to keep the peace and have a nice thanksgiving, I really do, but I can't help but feel that any defense of his election prompts an ebullient anger- from me. And I'm not like that. I think it's even harder for me to digest this about myself. So while I couldn't agree with you more, the struggle is real.
I feel you. You have to remind yourself that this is not about liberal v. conservative. It's not about the fact that a republican won and you're being a "sore loser." Ask yourself: Would you have felt this way if McCain or Romney had won? Did you get like this when Bush won? I'd bet no.
Go easy on yourself.
You made me feel so much better.
You're 100% right. I wouldn't have been upset if they'd won instead. I had voted for Bush in his second term.
I feel that it's more about the person than the party. I will once again hold my tongue  and drink a little 
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| Posted 11/23/16 11:53 AM |
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
I completely agree with you; you said it all.
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| Posted 11/23/16 1:14 PM |
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Megs1234
LIF Infant
Member since 11/16 157 total posts
Name:
Meg
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by EclecticEsq10810
I am surprised this wasn't mentioned or harped on by other Trump voters but the fact is, Hillary was indeed a very flawed candidate. I do not think she was more flawed than Donald but she had a lot of problems: 1) she had baggage - having lost in 2008 to Obama, and 2) all the string of scandals since her days as First Lady (emailgate, whitewater, 3) campaigned poorly [took many of her supporters for granted (did not even visit Wisconsin, a battleground state, while Donald did as many as 5 rallies a day), 4) was under FBI investigation (no other Presidential canddiate has even been this close to getting indicted before assuming office); 5) supported Open Borders which to many - meant a continuation of Obama policies and illegal immigration.
Many of those points were made multiple times by many republicans on this board over the past few months. They were lost in between people calling them racists or saying they had their head in the sand.
I do not think there has been one person that every claimed Trump was the be all end all. He is as corrupt as all the politicians in our country but people voted for who they think would put the country in the right direction. I know I have personally stated on these boards I have not agreed with some of his picks so far. It is very difficult to have any sort of conversation/respectable debate when threads start going down the accusatory route - "I hope your happy now trump supporters, trump supporters voted in a racist pig so you must be ok with that, your white privilege is showing" and so on and so on.
Maybe instead of just slamming a man who won the election fair and square and will be here for the next 4 years, concentrate on things that need to be fixed in this country. Updating our military, helping our homeless, protecting our citizens, working on change in our urban centers that empower people to have better lives, respecting our veterans and providing them with the services that are needed, fixing our economy to bring jobs back to the united states, teach people that they need to work hard to succeed and not just look for a handout, fix our education system that is failing numerous children, teach tolerance and acceptness – you can’t force people to change their core views overnight but you can teach and demand tolerance and respect for all.. That is what people should be protesting about. That is what both sides should be coming together to try to get done regardless of who won the Presidency because those problems would be there no matter who won.
 That was my immediate reaction when I read the post. Hillary's flaws were never mentioned by Trump supporters? That statement is really confusing, that's all we have been saying. I fully agree with your entire post.
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| Posted 11/23/16 1:35 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
I think that if you are so far right or so far left you become so impassioned with your views that it makes it hard to see the forest for the trees. I think everyone should be somewhere down the middle, maybe leaning left or right a little bit, when it comes to the government. Once you go too far one way it's just impossible to have an open mind about the other side and you just hear what you want to hear without ever really listening. But that's just my opinion.
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| Posted 11/23/16 1:57 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Why can't anyone concede anything?
Personally, cabinet pick after cabinet pick makes it hard to give him a chance. Almost every one had views that are just so opposite of what I hope to see. If that weren't happening I would be a lot more open to giving him a chance.
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| Posted 11/23/16 2:03 PM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why can't anyone concede anything?
Posted by JennP
It might look like a lot of people on here are just complaining, but there is a LOT of social action going on that Trump supporters might not see because it just might not show up as often in their social media feeds. A lot of really great organizing is going on now, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Trump is backing off some of his more offensive stances. Therefore, I, along with others on here, will continue to fight the good fight with phone calls, letters, protests, etc. despite the obvious disdain that people have exhibited, both on here and elsewhere, for protesting, which is sad especially on a board mostly of women. How does everyone think we got the right to vote?
I do agree that the rhetoric could afford to come down on both sides. I wrote what I thought was a kind and conciliatory post on the police outrage thread and it basically died after that. So, yeah, some people do seem to want to just make generalizations and argue.
But regarding your last paragraph.... I don't know. I just saw so much clarity, direction and hope in Hillary's answers to these problems. She had complex, nuanced plans for complex, nuanced problems. Trump didn't. And doesn't. Prominent economists on both ends of the spectrum have poked hole after hole in the plans he does have. Mexican's didn't steal anyone's jobs - technology did. We produce MORE than we did 40 years ago, we just do it with better technology and less people. I mean, look, I could go on and on. But it's SO frustrating to see so many people look to HIM for hope when he is so clearly driven by self interest and very, very much "establishment."
So when it comes to coming together.... with whom? What does that mean? You (general you) are MORE than welcome to join in the voice against hate, stupidity, and ignorance. You are more than welcome to join in speaking out to representatives to urge them to make sure we have a tax plan that does not favor the rich. You are more than welcome to urge your Senators to block any justice that would overturn Roe and endanger the lives and livelihoods of millions of women. I won't say I told you so, or you got conned, etc. I'll just say welcome.
I could go on. But you did what you have to do, and now I, and others who think like me, have to do what we have to do.
I really agree with everything you said in your post and am also trying not to dwell on the animosity I feel toward those who voted him in because it's wasted energy. The organization I see mounting is actually really exciting because I have formerly felt that Americans were pretty politically disengaged, which causes the exact rot we have seen in the "establishment" that everyone hates so much.
When I have personally spoken to Trump supporters, most of the reasons they cite for voting for him are either economic (hard to swallow because I don't see the value in the trickle-down approach of his tax plan) or related to a desired shift in foreign policy. If that is the case for all the voters who bristle at the accusation of racism or bigotry, I wish they would help those of incensed over the repercussions for civil liberties reign in this candidate who has been thrust upon the popular majority who didn't choose him. Those social issues (reproductive rights, marriage rights, comprehensive and compassionate immigration reform) have a very real impact on the everyday lives of everyday people.
But I also remember Michelle sharing the blog post about poverty in Appalachia, and she's right about the rural decay that pushed the electoral vote his favor. We are somewhat sheltered from that in the urban centers of the country, and I think we should be mounting organization to address those issues too if we want to find middle ground.
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| Posted 11/23/16 3:23 PM |
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