This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I just don't know what to do anymore - I'm really reaching a breaking point. As a recap, Joseph is 10 mos, co-sleeping and wakes every single night every 2-3 hrs to nurse. And always has. I have not had a stretch of more than 4 hrs sleep since he's born. Unfortunately fixing this rests pretty much solely in my hands (IMO) as DH and I don't see eye to eye on what to do. I think lack of sleep and stress has caused us to blame each other for these past 10 mos of (ME having) no sleep.

I've been SO against CIO. I don't hold opinions of those who've done it, it's just not what I ever -EVER - wanted to have to implement. But it's getting worse. But now getting him to GO to sleep is becoming a fighting match. At first I thought it was because he'd started walking and he just was so excited to do that that he didn't want to lay down and sleep. But that was almost a month ago and it's STILL happening. And to be honest - I read all your posts for those that HAVE done CIO and it seems to me that 9 out of 10 of you all swear by it but a month or 2 or 5 down the road you run into issues again....

I've read weissbluth. I've read ferber. I've read the sleep lady and the baby whisperer. But fixing ALL the sleep issues at one time is overwhelming to me.

Do I keep him co-sleeping and just work on eliminating nighttime nursing for now?

Do I keep nighttime nursing and try to get him in the crib for now?

Do I do both in one shot and feel like I'm royaling screwing the poor kid and making him suffer for our mistakes???

Tonight I nursed him in our bed - saw he wasn't going to go to sleep - put him in his crib and he hung out in there for awhile and then cried for 4 mins and threw his binky across the room. So I went and got it, gave it to him and he was inconsolable so I took him out. Tried that 2 more times and finally just rocked him to sleep after he was sobbing so much his body shook. Then I layed him in the crib and that's where he's been for the last 15 mins.

I've let this go too far and I know I need help but I have no idea what to do...

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I won't tell you what to do, but I believe that at Josephs' age, he is absolutely quite capable of sleeping through the night without a feeding. DD is 7 months old and dropped her ONE overnight feeding months ago.

You can play devils advocate with each situation. If you go for the getting him out the bed first, the nursing will sooth him when he wakes in his crib.

If you go for getting him to sleep through the night first once he's asleep, you can move him to the crib. IF he wakes, then you might nurse him, or you could just try soothing him without nursing. For him, the night time nursing is JUST habit....he is NOT hungry.

How are his naps? Where does he take them and how long will he sleep for? Does he go down easy?

You and Joseph *might* be better off doing it all in one shot....because of how he may react. If you put him in his crib, the nursing will soothe him (hopefully) BUT if you do go with letting him CIO or cry for a small amount of time, being able to shut the door and go somewhere else in the house might be good.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe he's waking up BECAUSE you are there?? Like Jen (monkeybride), once she moved Miranda to her own room, they ALL slept better!!

What does your pediatrician say about all this?

Whatever you choose I wish you luck, strength, and lots of patience. Lack of sleep really does make monsters out of us.....I HATED the first 8 weeks at a minimum because I was getting no sleep.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I don't know what to suggest. I would think that you should try getting rid of the nighttime feedings first -- since once his body is used to not needing them he'll sleep through the night better...and then try getting him to sleep in his crib. However both are going to be hard transitions and it might be better to kill two birds with one stone. As you can see, your guess is as good as mine!

I can't do the CIO thing either. She sometimes hums and fusses a little as she falls esleep, but lately when she's waking up constantly in the wee hours of the morning hystiercal, I just couldn't do that to her. I don't know if the sleep problems you're having now are necessarily just because you nurse at night and co-sleep. I do think it's the age because it sounds like so many of us are going through it and our babies are so close to age.

However you figure it out, I do hope it gets better soon.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

First I wanted to give you

I know how hard it is, because dd is 8 months and doesn't sleep through the night either.

My advice, for what it is worth coming from someone who doesn't sleep either, is pick one thing at a time to eliminate.

I did do CIO, I was also so against it but it did get her into her crib for the most part. But to be honest, I did it at six months and I am glad I did it then because I am not able to do it now, mostly because instead of just crying she calls for "da da" or "ma ma" and I just can't let it go.
I am assuming your dh wants to let him cry and that is where the conflict lies.
Good luck to you!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

1st off- what are you comfortable with???

I am a fan of CIO- and yes- since doing it- we have hit a few bumps in the road... but mostly because of the choices I made (like bringing him in bed with me- every single time he made a peep) As soon as I would return to CIO- after the 1 night- he was back on routine...

Luckily for me- Ill decide to let him CIO- do it that night- and thats enough for Ryan....

They do go through growth spurts, and we all know teeth.... and that all effects their sleep.... SO no matter what sleep method you use.... you are going to have "off" months, days, weeks, or whatever....

You have to choose a method that works for you and stick with it. Your consistency is really important (I learned that the hard way)

As far as the co-sleeping- I really wanted to with Ryan- but it just didnt work for us... He just dosent stay asleep when he's in our bed....I think the fact that one of us is always twistingm turning or snoring (thanks DH) disrubts his sleep (he is a real light sleeper) and once he's up- he's up and wants to play....



If you are going to try and break the co-cleeping and mid of the night feedings I think you should do it all at once...

Its gonna be hard.... but for a short pd. of time.... Why put yourself through this twice?????



Truth is- Joseph is not underfed... and does not need those feedings.... and dont feel like you are screwing him up! Babies need their sleep.... and you'll see such a difference in him when he's got a full 10hrs. straight through- nights sleep...



Im not an expert- but have tried my fair share of sleep methods... and any support you need... YOU GOT IT!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Thanks everyone I truly appreciate all your support!!!

I know he's nursing out of habit and that's why I'm ok w/ breaking him of it. The co-sleeping thing I'm not too worried about UNLESS that's what's causing him to wake up.

So let's say I just decide to eliminate night nursing now.. am I creating bad habits by doing whatever I need to to get him back to sleep without wailing... ex. rocking, walking, rubbing. I think I am. How else do I do it? I KNOW I should've done this back when he was 5/6 mos old. It's harder on me like Sunny said - he just stands there with his arms open wailing mama with his little nose running and I CAN'T let him stay that way.

He's still sleeping in his crib. OK - I admit...I put our pillow in there (which I am SO uneasy about!) but it's been almost an hour. We'll see how long it goes. Generally he lasts about 2.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Posted by jcndd

Thanks everyone I truly appreciate all your support!!!

I know he's nursing out of habit and that's why I'm ok w/ breaking him of it. The co-sleeping thing I'm not too worried about UNLESS that's what's causing him to wake up.

So let's say I just decide to eliminate night nursing now.. am I creating bad habits by doing whatever I need to to get him back to sleep without wailing... ex. rocking, walking, rubbing. I think I am. How else do I do it? I KNOW I should've done this back when he was 5/6 mos old. It's harder on me like Sunny said - he just stands there with his arms open wailing mama with his little nose running and I CAN'T let him stay that way.

He's still sleeping in his crib. OK - I admit...I put our pillow in there (which I am SO uneasy about!) but it's been almost an hour. We'll see how long it goes. Generally he lasts about 2.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Awww Danielle- im sorry!


No matter what route you choose- its gonna be hard- but in the end- everything will be sooo much easier!!!!! (and better for both of you- you have no idea!) Just be consistent with whatever you choose!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Well - an hour. He cried (ok, fine..for a minute!) and I put the binky back in, rubbed his back and he's sleeping again. I'm going to bed and see how much sleep I can get. Wish me sweet dreams please!!!!!!!!!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

DO IT DANIELLE!!

That's how Aly got into her crib at night and not in our bed halfway through the night (DH would bring her to bed around 1am after we'd have already gone in her room to put the bink back in 5 times!!)

One night I just kept going in to give her the bink back, and lo and behold.....she kept on sleeping in her crib.

CONSISTENCY is KEY!!! Marissa is absolutely right....pick a strategy, and no crying is FINE (Weissbluth) but keep it up. If you want him to sleep through the night in his own crib, it might be rough for a few nights, but keep it going! He'll get used to it!!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I am sosrry you are going through this. I did not nurse so I cant give you advice on that but I cam tell you that I believe that a 10 month old DOES NOT need to be fed in the middle of night - they eat enough during the day. I know that Sara is almost 6 months old and has not had her ONE middle of night feeding since is 8 weeks old. After a certain age the children wake out of habit. As for co - sleeping it is so hard to break that you should break that sooner than later. MY friend let her son sleep in her bed for years. He finally started asking for a brother or sister and she told him if you want one you have to sleep in your own bed . It took 5 years to get him to sleep in his own bed.

Good luck I hope all works out for you.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I'm sorry you are still having problems. I also realized that I never did get back to your PM.

I went through the same thing at 7-8 months. I think it's important to stop nursing at night. If you don't want to wean, that's fine, but you need DH to give him a bottle. At least initially until he realizes he will not get the nursing comfort that he's craving in the middle of the night.

I also am a firm believer of self-soothing. Until he learns how to do it, he will continue to wake as well.

I have plenty of suggestions, but I need to catch some sleep, myself.

I still say that DH getting involved for a few nights will be the best thing for DS, for you, and in the end for DH.

I should be up before the kids in the morning, so if you want, I can really PM you some suggestions this time.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

OK first of all don't blame yourself for anything because many people (including myself) feel you have done nothing wrong and done nothing but provided your son with what he needs. The problem now is that it is affecting YOU and you have reached your limit which in the long run will affect you in other ways.

While I don't have the answer I know that most moms in my attachment parenting group who cosleep and extended breastfeed start with night weaning while continuing to cosleep. Many of them get pregnant while still nursing toddlers and it becomes quite painful to nurse so they are forced to wean and usually start with night weaning because they are exhausted from being pregnant again. I think if you can get Joseph to give up the night nursing and sleep through the night the eventual transition to the crib or even a mattress on the floor in your room will be easier. While nursing him through the night having him elsewhere is pointless IMO.

Have youre read The No Cry Sleep Solution? I haven't but I know a lot of AP moms read it. I can't really do CIO either although a few night when I've reached my breaking point I've had to let her cry because I was on the verge of a breakdown. I can tell just from those short experiences that Miranda would never be a baby that CIO worked for and that may be the case for Joseph as well.


Just remember you are an amazing mom and this isn't forever and trust me you will miss him when he's gone. Even though we all sleep better (most of the time) I still want to pick up my sleeping baby and just bring her in bed with me.

ETA: Wanted to add that it also took us a few weeks of running in to replace the pacifier before she learned to find it herself. Now she goes to sleep with about 5 of them and when she wakes and cries we give her a minute because usually she's still asleep but just looking for her pacifier.

Message edited 8/6/2006 1:49:22 AM.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Based on research and years of clinical practice, there are several things I could suggest.
I however am a new parent and we are learning that emotions make a lot of things we "knew" go out the window.
That is ok.
Anything you do that works for you and your family is correct until it no longer works
I guess I just wanted to offer a and if ya wanna talk I'm here (until I have to put her back or pick her up or dance or just be new daddy )

good luck

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Thanks everyone - I will respond to your FM's (Thank you!!! ) but for now I'll just give you an update and then I need to eat!

He woke up 5 mins after my last post screaming. I let him do that in my arms for about 25 mins. I tried everything and he just cried and cried. So I brought him into bed and nursed him. Then I wanted to kill myself because why the he!! did I make him scream for 25 mins if I was going to nurse him???? Anyway - he fell back asleep in the bed and woke up again @ 1 and screamed for an hour. I enlisted DH (although like I thought he didn't help much) and he wouldn't quiet for anything. So I gave him 2oz in a CUP and he drank it and fell asleep with me rocking him (after drinking the cup.) Then he slept until 4 (only 2 hrs) and I nursed him again @ 4. This is so hard.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I know you've mentioned that you don't like CIO, but from all of the books I read and advice I received when Jack started waking and fighting bed time, this was the only one that consistently worked. We used it at about 8 months when he just didn't want to go to bed. After a week, we put him in his crib and he went right back to his routine of sleeping all night.

We recetnly moved him from crib to toddler bed and I started sitting with him, rubbing his back and staying with him until he fell asleep and each night he got more and more dependant on that and would get angry if I didn't do it. So I decided to let him CIO. Explained to him that he stays in his bed and only gets out when Mommy tells him he can. Now at bedtime, he climbs into bed, picks his two books and lays down and doesn't put up a fight. He is 21 months now.

It is the hardest thing I've had to do thus far with taking care of him. Putting him in his bed and just letting him scream. The first night it took two hours of crying. (I went in his room to comfort him at 10 minute intervals). Then the next night it was so much better, and so on.

If you decide to do it, you just have to be really strong and not give in after 2 hours of crying, because it willl set you back to where you started and he will just reinforce the behavior that crying gets him a a feeding, your bed, etc.

BUT, before I did any of that, I would cut out that nighttime feeding. First get rid of that and then start working on his sleep routine.

It will be so hard for a while, but then when your nights are your own and you put him to bed and he stays there for the night, you will be SO HAPPY you endured a couple week of hell.

GOOD LUCK!

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Just want to give you hugs...you are a great mommy!! Don't ever doubt that.

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

I don't have any advice because we are in a similar situation I cannot remember the last time I slept longer than a 4 hour stretch... Lack of sleep is awful... DD will not sleep without us since we brought her home and do NOT believe in CIO, all about attatchment parenting. DD normally nurses anywhere from 2 -4 hours through the night and as exhausting as it is I deal with it because I know one day she will be all grown up and I will miss those night wakings

Re: This is me begging for advice... (long!)

Awwwwwwwwww, Danielle, I'm so sorry you're going through this. First of all, you are the bravest, strongest, best-est mommy in the world! Don't doubt that for a second! You haven't done anything wrong at all, its just that you've come to a point where you need to change things a little, which is entirely understandable. I'm amazed you're still mentally there because I nearly lost it in the 6 months of no-sleep I had, I can't imagine it continuing to 10 months!

As for Joseph, well, unfortunately I can't say exactly what you should do because it all depends on your comfort level, hubby's involvement, and how Joseph reacts. I'll tell you this - I was NOT a CIO proponent AT ALL until I reached my breaking point at around 6 months. I'm sure you remember it - I came into work and really messed something up, my boss came to my office, closed the door, and asked what the heck was wrong with me lately. That night I came home, sobbed to myself for hours, and decided enough was enough - I had to (a) reclaim my life, and (b) teach Alex the most important skill of her life: self-soothing.

Fortunately, for us, Alex handled it very well. She cried for about 20 minutes, but never became hysterical, blue in the face, and never started choking, so for us it worked. Within a few days, I was able to put her in her crib awake and she would fall asleep on her own. We've had setbacks here and there when she gets sick, but within a few days she bounces back to routine if we let her cry a little to go to sleep. Now, we're having problems again, like most of the 10-month mommies, so I have been "soothing" her to sleep or back to sleep, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. When I reached my breaking point at 6 months - it was horrible. She was waking every 2-3 hours, which wasn't SO bad, but then, like Joseph, she started putting up such an enormous resistance to just going to sleep! It was taking upwards of 2-3 hours just to get her to bed at night!

I really am a firm believer that children, at some point, need to learn how to soothe themselves - it's an essential skill. You just have to figure out a way that works best for your family to help Joseph learn that skill. Honestly, knowing that you have such hesitations with CIO, I would start with baby steps. First and foremost, Joseph doesn't need to eat during the night. I would wean the night feedings - give him the comfort he needs, but don't feed him. The first week will be HELL. Expect that. But, you never know, within a few days maybe he'll sleep longer stretches if he knows there isn't any food when he wakes up. See how that goes... tackle that problem first, and then go onto the next issue...