DS not drinking (was "not eating")

I posted a similar thread last month about DS but now I have some more information.
Brief recap:
5 month visit - pediatrician "He's dropping a few percentiles in weight, we should be aware"
6 month visit - pediatrician "he dropped from the 53rd percentile to the 27th percentile, thats not good. How much is he drinking per day?"
me - "in the day time from 7am to 8/9pm - he drinks about 10-15 oz total either formula or breast milk (we run out of breast milk sometimes. Wife breast feeds once or twice over night if he wakes up crying"
pediatrician - "thats too little, he should be drinking about 35oz a day. Start him on solids to try and get him more calories"
7 month visit - he dropped to the 23rd percentile in terms of weight. But the biggest issue is he is drinking about 2-4 oz of breast milk/formula during the day (from 7am to 8pm)
He is eating solids (he blend up chicken, veggies, avocado and sometimes give him baby food)

I assume the problem is that since we started the solids (which he seems to prefer vs drinking) he drinks less. But he's drinking way less.

Now we are at 8 months.
We've gone to 2 different GI doctors and saw 2 different pediatricians.
The general consensus is:
"He looks ok, and you can't FORCE a baby to eat so there's not much that can be done. The only option is a feeding tube and he is not at that level. If he is only drinking 2-4oz during the day that could be all he needs"

Yes he seems physically good - its actually kind of funny. He can't sit yet, but he crawls really fast (army crawl) and he is actually standing and starting to almost Cruise.
He crawls until he bumps into something and then uses that object to pull himself up, his feet are usually far away so he shuffles them closer until he is standing straight up.

I am concerned about his overall physical and mental development with the amount of food he gets.
His head size is actually on the 10th percentile so I'm worried that the brain isn't growing as well.

But not sure what else can be done.
When we try to give him a bottle he refuses it and will turn his head and cry. It doesnt matter what is in the bottle (formula/water/breast milk)
Wifey breastfeeds him once or twice at night, but that is only possible if he is about to fall asleep.
If he is awake (aware) he will refuse to breastfeed also. its almost like she is "dream breast feeding" him.

We've tried 4 different bottles and 3 different RTF forumulas and 2 different formula powders. (plus he acts the same if its formula or breast milk)
The strange thing is - wifey had to go out of town for a week in May (about 4 months old) and he was drinking about 5-6 oz at a time then. She came back and he wouldnt drink from her and would only drink from a bottle for about a week. We didn't change the bottle or formula from month 4 to month 6.

Any advice?
Thanks

DS not drinking (was

Have you tried milk in a cup instead of the bottle. Maybe a straw cup or sippy with handles so he can drink on the go. Sounds like he's too busy to sit still for a bottle. My kids weren't good with bottles at all by that age but they learned to drink from a straw cup bc they saw me doing it all the time.

DS not drinking (was

Have you tried a new doctor? I get some eat more some eat less but my doctors are always concerned with tree size of DS head. I have known several kids go for brain scans b/c they are either measuring big or small. I wouldn't just take their answer and go. You are obviously concerned. Try a new doctor. How is he not dehydrated? I would keep trying until you get somewhere.


Sorry just re read your post and see you've seen different peds. I would see a third dr or keep
Pushing your reg dr. There has to be some scan or test that can be done. He's not growing and not gaining. That's very concerning.

What about a feeding therapist?

Message edited 9/27/2016 5:43:04 PM.

DS not drinking (was

>>He's not growing and not gaining. That's very concerning.

Well 'technically' he is growing.
He continues to drop on weight percentile but that's because as he gains weight he also gets older so the amount of weight he is supposed to be goes up also.


>>What about a feeding therapist?

The first GI doctor FINALLY mentioned a feeding specialist at our second visit (I didn't even know such a thing existed)

Of course the specialist the GI doc mentioned is booked until the end of November.
I got a different one (but same practice) booked for the end of October.

and when I say we saw different pediatricians, I mean different ones in the same practice. The office has like a rotating staff of 5 peds.

DS not drinking (was

If I were in your shoes I would be getting second and third opinions. Also like PP mentioned try sippy cups. Maybe the baby just isn't into bottles. But IMO I would be worried about dehydration if the baby is only getting 2-4 oz a day. Also if LO's head is only in the 10th %ile I would also consider seeing a neurologist.
Glad you are seeing a specialist at the end of October. Hope you can get some answers. Good luck!

Message edited 9/27/2016 9:28:07 PM.

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

I know someone who has a feeding therapist through Early Intervention, maybe this could be an option for you?

Also I would make an appointment with a pediatric neurologist just to make sure all is OK with the brain if you are concerned about the growth..

DS not drinking (was

How is he doing in height? We used to be concerned bc our DS would barely gain weight and drop in percentiles but he was always getting taller (consistently 98th percentile). Ped wasn't concerned as he was "growing".

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

How is he eating the solids?
My daughter is similiar here. Terrible bottle drinker.. always has been. SHe is on Nutramigen which many parents I know who have babies on these hypoallergenic formulas say there babies dont drink very much.
from 8 months to now at 11 months old barely drinks about 16 ounces a day.. we sneak a few ounces into oatmeal twice a day to get more formula in her.
Also, have you tried a sippy cup with her. Suprisingly she drinks beautifully from a straw cup we started offering at 10 months.
Also, was your baby born early? small? etc
My baby is growing well but was born unexpectedly small for gestational age at 4 pounds 11 ounces full term.
Try to hang in there ... I know these things are so tough!

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

My daughter was a terrible "drinker" and refused forumla, barely drinking it. Once we put her on milk, she loved it and drank like a champ. She likes food, so that was never an issue.

Have you tried milk and food?

DS not drinking (was

Was his head always small? Do small heads run in the family? What are the Dr's saying about head size? I would be concerned about that too, especially if head size is dropping in percentiles. When our DD's weight percentile dropped, the Dr told us if baby isn't getting enough calories, she would 1st drop in weight percentile and, if not corrected, it would next affect height and then head size.
Is he drinking water? Maybe too much? I would think on 2-4 oz, you would see signs of dehydration - less and darker pee, small hard poop.
If you have a baby scale, you can estimate how much breast milk he eats by weighing him before and after eating.
Which growth chart is the ped using? There is a WHO chart which should be used for BF babies and a CDC chart which my ped liked to use. My DD always looked fine on the WHO chart, but dropped in percentiles on the CDC chart.
Because our ped was concerned based on CDC chart, and like you said we could not force DD to eat more, we added some extra calories with healthy oils to some of her foods, like a little coconut oil to her sweet potatoes. It seemed to help her when most of the foods she wanted were low calorie and low fat foods (we had difficulty getting her to eat new foods).
Good luck!

Message edited 9/28/2016 12:14:59 PM.

DS not drinking (was

Hi everyone,

nycgirl
>>Pump so you know how much baby eats at night.

My wife pumps while at work but does not pump at home because she needs to breast feed DS.
But while at work (between the hours of 7am and 8pm) she only pumps out about 6oz now.


JDubs
>>I know someone who has a feeding therapist through Early Intervention, maybe this could be an option for you?

Good idea, I will check it out.


MrsB612
>>How is he doing in height?

He is 50% in terms of height.


pinkiegirl
>>How is he eating the solids?

He seems to do pretty well with solids.
We give him some jar baby food.
We also give him some pureed chicken and veggies.
We put in some breast milk and powder formula in the puree

He was born just about on time (week early?) and was 8lbs 11oz


NYCGirl80
>>Have you tried milk and food?

no milk yet. Ped said there are 2 items not to be given before 1 year (honey and milk)


pumpkinmom
Not sure about his head. The doctor only mentioned weight as a concern but I noticed in his notes that the head was in the teens so thats why I asked him for the head percentile.
He is not drinking water.
Not sure about the color of the urine because he has a diaper but it looks normal. He must be getting more liquid from the puree that we feed him and also from nursing at night.
He drinks 2-4oz between the hours of 6am and 11pm.
My wife nurses him at midnight/2am/4am - but not sure how much he drinks.
But he drinks for a few minutes and then falls asleep (not even sure if he is fully awake for the feedings).

I know its not the same, but during the daytime at work, my wife pumps and only gets about 6oz now.

Not sure of the growth chart. Its computerized and when the Ped enters the weight/height/head it automatically puts it in a chart. It could be the same one that is one the Yellow paper/pamplet that the hospital gives out to keep track of measurements and vaccines.

Good idea about the coconut oil, I'll let the wife know

Thanks everyone!

DS not drinking (was

I'd continue night nursing sessions, if ur lo wakes up at night for a feeding go right ahead. I read an article that said that the milk produced at night is richer than what's produced throughout the day. Also please don't take the amount of pump milk as the actual amount ur wife produces. Pumps do not take all the milk out, not matter what type of pump u use or for how long u do it. So if DW is only pumping 6 oz u can rest assure she produces more than that. I also agree about inquiring with ur pediatrician what chart he uses, I think I mentioned about this in ur other post?

Message edited 10/10/2016 5:38:21 PM.

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

This would all be concerning to me and I wouldn't want to let it go very long without getting to the bottom of it. Granted, I have a baby with a lot of medical needs so I tend to be very proactive/overreactive, but I feel you are right to be concerned and if doctors aren't suggesting things designed to get to the root of the problem, find a new team of doctors.

When my infant was having issues regarding feeding, particularly with breast milk, our neonatal clinic referred us to the speech and language disorders center at LIJ... the woman I spoke with was very helpful and we had set up an appointment, but I wound up canceling it because of an insurance issue (and then the problem resolved itself) but I'm told they're excellent... I would reach out to them and see if they can help you. If your doctor calls they can probably get you in sooner if you're told there's a long wait for an appointment.

Also - have they talked to you at all about supplementing with specialty high-calorie formula?? We had a high calorie preemie formula called Neosure, and they have mixes of powder you can mix to increase the calories of different formula too, you can make it 22 cal/oz or 27 cal/oz vs. the typical 20 cal/oz if you're open to formula. This might help a bit with the weight gain.

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

My DS has always given me a hard time with his bottles.

The only thing that has worked for us is feeding him when he's asleep.

DS not drinking (was

soontobemommyof2
>>I'd continue night nursing sessions.../...I also agree about inquiring with ur pediatrician what chart he uses

Wifey is getting run down with the night sessions. She leaves home around 7:30 and doesn't get back until 7:30/8 then she has to deal with the kids (including DD who only lets my wife change her diaper and put her to sleep) DS wakes up multiple times a night but only feeds twice, other times he is just standing in his crib and making noise - he has to be picked up because if he makes too much noise he will wake up DD. (all 4 of us are in the same bedroom, the joys of living in the city)
She wants to stop the nursing and hopes that if he takes the bottle he will sleep through the night, but he is not taking the bottle. (back in may when he did drink 5-6 oz from the bottle, he woke up twice at night but drank and slept again no waking up and chilling)
I'll try to find out the chart from the Ped. I didn't ask because I always ask a ton of questions already and feel I am getting on their nerves with all the questions.


DWKS810
>if doctors aren't suggesting things designed to get to the root of the problem, find a new team of doctors.

So far we've met with:
2 (or was it 3?) Peds / 2 GI docs / 1 feeding specialist
They all said - he looks good, he seems to be strong and you can't force a baby to eat.
The second GI doctor said it is possible to put a feeding tube in, but DS is not at that point so there's nothing to do. Spoke with another feeding specialist (the director of the center where I saw the first one) and she said that it could be behavioral and that we should do some therapy to try and convert him back to the bottle.

>have they talked to you at all about supplementing with specialty high-calorie formula

Nope. Where did you get Neosure?


w8andsee
>The only thing that has worked for us is feeding him when he's asleep.

Yeah, the only time he sort of takes the bottle is when he is dozing off and the nanny basically forces the nipple into his mouth so he drinks from the bottle.
But if he is a little awake he will push the nipple out or if he is too asleep then he won't drink (since he is sleeping, lol)

Thanks everyone!

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

DS not drinking (was

>>I hope you're sending her to the spa on weekends!

Its worse on the weekend because...well to be honest its easier working than it is to take care of kids lol.
So on the weekend we have to take care of the kids all 24 hours rather than just 12 hours.

We've tried different bottles/nipples and no difference.
The strange thing is in May he was drinking 5oz at a time but now he won't even let us put the nipple in his mouth. and we haven't changed the bottle or nipple type since then.
Sippy cup...I don't think he knows what to do with it. Gave him a straw and he started gumming the middle rather than sucking the end

Re: DS not drinking (was "not eating")

one trick to try witht he straw (it takes a while to learn it but maybe it will help) is take a reg straw and put it in the formula and put your finger over the hole so the straw is filled with the liquid. put the straw in his mouth and drip some in his mouth. He will realize there's something in there. Eventually he will start to suck to get more.

See if that works. Maybe he will take more formula that way.

DS not drinking (was

Thanks, we'll try that.

I think its a nipple bottle thing...because my wife told me that she was able to spoon feed him a bunch of formula (not sure of the exact oz)
But he wont take the bottle.

DS not drinking (was

may be they are to big? have you tired the preemie size? i know you have exhausted so much already