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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Disneygirl17
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
And would he survive the flight? I feel for the parents here, I do but I think the UK is trying to do what’s best for this baby. I have no idea how I’d feel if i was in this position.
The point is, the UK has no right to do what's "best" for the baby.
That's the parent's job. And their choice.
What if the gov't told you what was "best"for you baby?
What if they forced you to breast feed when you didn't want to because they decided that was "best"?
There would be anarchy.
This is extremely disturbing and scary that a gov't can have that much power.
Message edited 4/26/2018 8:52:06 AM.
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Posted 4/26/18 8:51 AM  |
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blu6385
Member since 5/08 8351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by GoldenRod
This page:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html
gives a little more details. The government is not deciding on the child's fate (at least not directly). They are making judgments that side with what all of the hospital doctors have decided.
I still haven't found out why the UK won't let him travel to Italy....
from the articvles I read my take on it it sounds like the UK courts made the decision that no more measures should be taken to keep this child alive so there for they will not let him leave. I also read that even though he was breathing on his own the hospital wouldn't give him oxygen right away.
It really to me basically sounds like they have decided that no more measure should be taken to keep him alive so they will not do anything that might prolong his life.
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| Posted 4/26/18 8:58 AM |
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KGools
Happy
Member since 9/06 9532 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by LSP2005
While I feel terrible for the family, I think they are wrong like the Terri Schaivo and Jahia cases. These families are clinging to the hope their loved one will live, but what quality is their life? I think they need a lot of therapy to deal with their family member and that they are torturing a nearly dead body.
Not the same at all actually. In Terri's case her husband wanted to take her off life support and her family wanted to keep her on. This dispute is what caused the courts to get involved.
In Alfie's case, if the government - who is footing the bill - no longer wants to keep him on life support, that is fine. But his family should have every right to take him elsewhere if they feel there is a chance at their son's recovery.
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| Posted 4/26/18 9:10 AM |
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JDandMe
LIF Adult
Member since 9/10 996 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Disneygirl17
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
And would he survive the flight? I feel for the parents here, I do but I think the UK is trying to do what’s best for this baby. I have no idea how I’d feel if i was in this position.
The point is, the UK has no right to do what's "best" for the baby.
That's the parent's job. And their choice.
What if the gov't told you what was "best"for you baby?
What if they forced you to breast feed when you didn't want to because they decided that was "best"?
There would be anarchy.
This is extremely disturbing and scary that a gov't can have that much power.
UK's healthcare system- Nation Health Services (NHS) is controlled by the central government and they have decision making power. They apparently look at the physician's diagnosis and prognosis along with costs when making a determination. So the government does have the power to make a determination on the medical care the baby receives.
As for "allowing" the child to go to Italy, I'm not exactly sure how it works but some costs may still be the responsibility of England. Again, I'm not entirely clear on how it works. I work with two colleagues, one from Luxembourg and one from England. Both are still "covered under their countries health care systems. The one from England was recently diagnosed with cancer and all his treatments, surgeries and the kind of chemo he received have to be approved by England before he could receive any cancer. He mentioned how the doctor recommended one type of chemo that England would not approve and he to have radiation first, even though his doctor did not believe that radiation would be effective.
When its socialized medicine, the government can have a lot of power in the decision making process.
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| Posted 4/26/18 9:24 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by JDandMe
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Disneygirl17
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
And would he survive the flight? I feel for the parents here, I do but I think the UK is trying to do what’s best for this baby. I have no idea how I’d feel if i was in this position.
The point is, the UK has no right to do what's "best" for the baby.
That's the parent's job. And their choice.
What if the gov't told you what was "best"for you baby?
What if they forced you to breast feed when you didn't want to because they decided that was "best"?
There would be anarchy.
This is extremely disturbing and scary that a gov't can have that much power.
UK's healthcare system- Nation Health Services (NHS) is controlled by the central government and they have decision making power. They apparently look at the physician's diagnosis and prognosis along with costs when making a determination. So the government does have the power to make a determination on the medical care the baby receives.
As for "allowing" the child to go to Italy, I'm not exactly sure how it works but some costs may still be the responsibility of England. Again, I'm not entirely clear on how it works. I work with two colleagues, one from Luxembourg and one from England. Both are still "covered under their countries health care systems. The one from England was recently diagnosed with cancer and all his treatments, surgeries and the kind of chemo he received have to be approved by England before he could receive any cancer. He mentioned how the doctor recommended one type of chemo that England would not approve and he to have radiation first, even though his doctor did not believe that radiation would be effective.
When its socialized medicine, the government can have a lot of power in the decision making process.
Wow. Disturbing.
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| Posted 4/26/18 9:31 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by JDandMe
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Disneygirl17
Posted by Sparrow
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
Right? Like I will take my kid anywhere I want, thank you very much. Is the UK some kind of sicko dictatorship that you can't leave? This is absurd to me!
It's extremely expensive to transport someone of that level of care. Who would pay to get him there?
And would he survive the flight? I feel for the parents here, I do but I think the UK is trying to do what’s best for this baby. I have no idea how I’d feel if i was in this position.
The point is, the UK has no right to do what's "best" for the baby.
That's the parent's job. And their choice.
What if the gov't told you what was "best"for you baby?
What if they forced you to breast feed when you didn't want to because they decided that was "best"?
There would be anarchy.
This is extremely disturbing and scary that a gov't can have that much power.
UK's healthcare system- Nation Health Services (NHS) is controlled by the central government and they have decision making power. They apparently look at the physician's diagnosis and prognosis along with costs when making a determination. So the government does have the power to make a determination on the medical care the baby receives.
As for "allowing" the child to go to Italy, I'm not exactly sure how it works but some costs may still be the responsibility of England. Again, I'm not entirely clear on how it works. I work with two colleagues, one from Luxembourg and one from England. Both are still "covered under their countries health care systems. The one from England was recently diagnosed with cancer and all his treatments, surgeries and the kind of chemo he received have to be approved by England before he could receive any cancer. He mentioned how the doctor recommended one type of chemo that England would not approve and he to have radiation first, even though his doctor did not believe that radiation would be effective.
When its socialized medicine, the government can have a lot of power in the decision making process.
Wow. Disturbing.
But the NHS is still in the EU. They really don’t have a say. I suppose they could reject the costs of transporting the child, but that was not clear in the article. I think there are a lot of nuances that are not being mentioned.
I hurt my foot in Italy and had no problems going for X-rays (I have socialized medicine in Germany) there. It cost me nothing, and I’m not sure why the parents would not be allowed to bring their kid to Italy. They only thing I can think of is that the NHS doesn’t want to pay for transport.
And socialized medicine doesn't really have that much say, so please stop saying that about how socialized medicine has a lot of say; please get your facts straight. Everyone is entitled to free healthcare here. You may have wait times. But when you express a need to be seen right away, they take care of it.
The only thing I can think of is that the NHS only allows one to go to a certain doctor in the nearby area. You cannot choose your doctor. I need more info about this story because I’m pretty sure they didn’t approve travel costs.
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| Posted 4/26/18 10:37 AM |
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Disneygirl17
LIF Toddler
Member since 11/16 496 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
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| Posted 4/26/18 2:15 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
Right now, corporations decide how we treat (or can't treat) our own bodies....
IMO, I think we'd have more say in our own healthcare if we had universal care, instead of our current for-profit corporate model.
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| Posted 4/26/18 2:51 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
Hah, good question.
If you have enough money in your bank account, then they would check that.
It isn’t about the government deciding how you would treat your body.
I’ll give you an example from what has happened to me.
I am on unemployment. But they check my bank balance to make sure I’m at a certain amount. If I am below that balance, then I get money from the gov’t. If above, I get nothing.
I suspect that the NHS found out a bank balance more. I think they went to get assistance, and they had too much money in the bank.
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| Posted 4/26/18 3:04 PM |
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ChilisWife
God Bless America
Member since 5/05 3572 total posts
Name:
A.K.
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
Right now, corporations decide how we treat (or can't treat) our own bodies....
IMO, I think we'd have more say in our own healthcare if we had universal care, instead of our current for-profit corporate model.
I think there is a difference between saying what you have the right to do with your own body, and what the government (or insurance company) will pay for. Regardless of whether the government or a private corporation refuses to pay for treatment, if Alfie's parents want him to leave the hospital so they could seek alternate treatment at their own cost, they absolutely should have the right to do that no matter what some third party decides is an acceptable "quality of life."
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| Posted 4/26/18 8:09 PM |
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Disneygirl17
LIF Toddler
Member since 11/16 496 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
Hah, good question.
If you have enough money in your bank account, then they would check that.
It isn’t about the government deciding how you would treat your body.
I’ll give you an example from what has happened to me.
I am on unemployment. But they check my bank balance to make sure I’m at a certain amount. If I am below that balance, then I get money from the gov’t. If above, I get nothing.
I suspect that the NHS found out a bank balance more. I think they went to get assistance, and they had too much money in the bank.
Interesting. Ty for the response.
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| Posted 4/26/18 8:47 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Disneygirl17
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
Hah, good question.
If you have enough money in your bank account, then they would check that.
It isn’t about the government deciding how you would treat your body.
I’ll give you an example from what has happened to me.
I am on unemployment. But they check my bank balance to make sure I’m at a certain amount. If I am below that balance, then I get money from the gov’t. If above, I get nothing.
I suspect that the NHS found out a bank balance more. I think they went to get assistance, and they had too much money in the bank.
Interesting. Ty for the response.
I’m not a lawyer, but that is my best guess. I’m at the second stage of my unemployment ;I got what I wanted at the first stage. What I’m saying is there has to be a line drawn. It’s a shame that this happening, but the government has some say about what they can spend money on.
The NHS is in total disarray, and it’s one of the few healthcare systems that offers only public insurance. The UK needs to switch over to public and private health insurance. It’s not about socialized medicine at this point. I have public health insurance in Germany, but they don’t pay for everything. If I had private insurance, then I would get a lot more. However, I cannot afford private health insurance at the moment. If I switched to private, then I could not switch back to public.
My guess is that they went to the court and tried to get away with what they could (who wouldn’t try?). The gov’t said no, and this is where the debate started. It isn’t a free for all— like many seem to think. You get health insurance to a limit. And let’s be honest, this boy is not going to live.
I am on socialized public health insurance. I get free doctor care and I do not have to pay for prescriptions or doctor visits. I know that if I were really sick, I could get the care I need. I also know that if I needed expensive medical care, depending on my situation, I might not get it. I would get what keeps me comfortable, but there is only so much one can do.
I don’t know, but I’ve been to too many gov’t offices in the last year, so maybe I’m a bit skeptical.
Socialized medicine is great, and you get the care you need— to a point. It’s so complicated to explain. Basically, you get what you put into the system.
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| Posted 4/26/18 9:43 PM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
"At that time, it was suggested that Alfie could be transported to Rome's Bambino Gesu Pediatric Hospital, a Vatican hospital and the main pediatric hospital serving southern Italy, for treatment.
However, a subsequent visit to Alfie and consultation with his doctors led the Roman doctors to conclude that the child's condition is irreversible and untreatable, according to a statement from Alder Hey."CNN Story
So from what the story suggests, the doctors in Rome consulted with the doctors in the UK and came to the same conclusion.
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| Posted 4/26/18 10:12 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11489 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by MichLiz213
Posted by justbeachy
I haven't followed this story at all...but WHY can't they just go to Italy? Is this a visa issue? I'm not understanding how anyone can tell them they CANT go to Italy....
"At that time, it was suggested that Alfie could be transported to Rome's Bambino Gesu Pediatric Hospital, a Vatican hospital and the main pediatric hospital serving southern Italy, for treatment.
However, a subsequent visit to Alfie and consultation with his doctors led the Roman doctors to conclude that the child's condition is irreversible and untreatable, according to a statement from Alder Hey."CNN Story
So from what the story suggests, the doctors in Rome consulted with the doctors in the UK and came to the same conclusion.
There is no visa issue. The UK is in the EU (for now.)
The boy’s life cannot be saved, so what more can you do?He has been in care for over a year. If the Italian hospital agreed that it’s untreatable, then who will treat this boy?
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| Posted 4/27/18 4:01 AM |
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jamnmore
LIF Adult
Member since 6/16 989 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
Posted by Disneygirl17
So if we, the US, had universal healthcare, the government could decide how we treat our own bodies?
But right now, we allow insurance companies to dictate that. Have you ever had to try one medication before another? Or physical therapy before surgery? Or the treatment you need is not covered at all.
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| Posted 4/27/18 8:10 AM |
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Disneygirl17
LIF Toddler
Member since 11/16 496 total posts
Name:
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Re: Is anyone following the Alfie Evans story?
The poor boy died this morning.
My heart goes out to his parents
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| Posted 4/28/18 9:01 AM |
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