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Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Posted by LiveForMoments
This is not a new issue.
The public school example is a great one.
If church & state were completely separate, schools should close for religious holidays.
When's the last time you saw your mail carrier on Christmas Day?
So pack those lunches and backpacks on Christmas, or whichever holiday, if this is how you really feel.
We want things to be black & white, except when we want them grey.
Disclaimer: I am not even the slightest bit Republican.
Christmas is a National holiday, it has become very secular. IMO they can do breaks that make sense based on National Holidays and give each kid 3-4 "personal" days, like you would have at work, to cover your days you need for religious reasons. Not counted against them, if they are used for non-religious reasons that is the families prerogative.
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Posted 10/20/16 4:51 PM  |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by LiveForMoments
This is not a new issue.
The public school example is a great one.
If church & state were completely separate, schools should close for religious holidays.
When's the last time you saw your mail carrier on Christmas Day?
So pack those lunches and backpacks on Christmas, or whichever holiday, if this is how you really feel.
We want things to be black & white, except when we want them grey.
Disclaimer: I am not even the slightest bit Republican.
Christmas is a National holiday, it has become very secular. IMO they can do breaks that make sense based on National Holidays and give each kid 3-4 "personal" days, like you would have at work, to cover your days you need for religious reasons. Not counted against them, if they are used for non-religious reasons that is the families prerogative.
The issue would include teachers and staff who observe, unions, etc
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| Posted 10/20/16 5:33 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Posted by stinger
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by LiveForMoments
This is not a new issue.
The public school example is a great one.
If church & state were completely separate, schools should close for religious holidays.
When's the last time you saw your mail carrier on Christmas Day?
So pack those lunches and backpacks on Christmas, or whichever holiday, if this is how you really feel.
We want things to be black & white, except when we want them grey.
Disclaimer: I am not even the slightest bit Republican.
Christmas is a National holiday, it has become very secular. IMO they can do breaks that make sense based on National Holidays and give each kid 3-4 "personal" days, like you would have at work, to cover your days you need for religious reasons. Not counted against them, if they are used for non-religious reasons that is the families prerogative.
The issue would include teachers and staff who observe, unions, etc
This as different because for schools to close on holidays it's really a logistical issue - i.e. few would show up so it's not worth opening.
That was the way it worked in the DOE anyway. We got the Muslim holiday last year because there were schools where 3/4 of staff and students were absent. It's inefficient to stay open.
Another reason it's different is that they are not forcing people to observe. It's just a day off.
Just my 2 cents!
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| Posted 10/20/16 6:32 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Great thread!
I was going to post this thought on the other thread but actually it's more appropriate here (MC09 must have been in my head):
If these issues are important to you (general you) consider voting Democrat ALL around the ticket if you don't already do so.
These ideas of merging church and state are very much integral to the Republican platform. It's their default position, and anyone who claims to be pro choice or cool with same sex marriage is pretty much by definition an independent, not a Republican.
We need to do all we can to excoriate these ideas so that politicians get the message.
While Congress by definition cannot overturn Roe v Wade (thank God), their members can only gain power and prominence over time and we risk them rising to greater heights (i.e. Paul Ryan.)
Let's stunt the growth of their careers and send a message that it's time the Republicans entered the 21st century and progressed with the times.
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| Posted 10/20/16 6:44 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
This country was actually founded on the basis of religious freedom but not necessarily the separation of church and state. I think more recently people are demanding a true separation of church and state.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:12 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Posted by lululu
This country was actually founded on the basis of religious freedom but not necessarily the separation of church and state. I think more recently people are demanding a true separation of church and state.
Just because the phrase "separation of church and state" is not written in the Constitution that doesn't mean it can't be traced back to the "founding fathers" and isn't the law of the land.
It depends on how the Supreme Court interprets it.
Here is a summary of a case called Everson v BOE in which both the majority and dissenting opinion connect the concept of religious freedom to the words of Thomas Jefferson about a "wall of separation between church and state."
Courts have been pretty friendly to people who wish to display religious symbols on government buildings. So that is another issue the courts have had to weigh in on.
The bottom line is - few things are that simple. Take the Hobby Lobby case (a decision I find loathsome, but I digress.) What does "religious freedom" mean exactly? What happens when individual freedoms clash (as in Hobby Lobby)? Who or what prevails? If we didn't have to interpret the Constitution, the Supreme Court would out of a job!
And this is one of the many things that are just so dangerous about Donald Trump. He holds a simplistic view of just about everything. It's not about "going back to the Constitution." It's about its interpretation, much of which has already been done in case precedents and cannot just be tossed aside cavalierly.
A great president has to see things with nuance and conduct analysis from every angle. (I happen to think that is one of Hillary's great strengths, but, more insidiously, it's Donald's greatest weakness.)
Message edited 10/21/2016 9:19:41 AM.
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| Posted 10/21/16 9:18 AM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
This country was actually founded on the basis of religious freedom but not necessarily the separation of church and state. I think more recently people are demanding a true separation of church and state.
Just because the phrase "separation of church and state" is not written in the Constitution that doesn't mean it can't be traced back to the "founding fathers" and isn't the law of the land.
It depends on how the Supreme Court interprets it.
Here is a summary of a case called Everson v BOE in which both the majority and dissenting opinion connect the concept of religious freedom to the words of Thomas Jefferson about a "wall of separation between church and state."
Courts have been pretty friendly to people who wish to display religious symbols on government buildings. So that is another issue the courts have had to weigh in on.
The bottom line is - few things are that simple. Take the Hobby Lobby case (a decision I find loathsome, but I digress.) What does "religious freedom" mean exactly? What happens when individual freedoms clash (as in Hobby Lobby)? Who or what prevails? If we didn't have to interpret the Constitution, the Supreme Court would out of a job!
And this is one of the many things that are just so dangerous about Donald Trump. He holds a simplistic view of just about everything. It's not about "going back to the Constitution." It's about its interpretation, much of which has already been done in case precedents and cannot just be tossed aside cavalierly.
A great president has to see things with nuance and conduct analysis from every angle. (I happen to think that is one of Hillary's great strengths, but, more insidiously, it's Donald's greatest weakness.)
So well said! 
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| Posted 10/21/16 9:27 AM |
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| Pages: 1 [2] |
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